Do hierarchies in relationships make it difficult to celebrate a life partners’ success? Would there be more celebration, if she was working in a different office? What would you say to the email writer?

Hi,
I and my wife have been married for 5 years and we share a very close bond. We never hide anything from each other.
She joined to work in my company last year. Now, she has got a promotion and now has an offer letter that will make her my boss.
I feel uneasy at this situation. I do not know how this will affect our relationship. So far we used to discuss A-Z of all that happens at work with each other. Now I feel that there is a new barrier between us.
I feel she will not tell me what happens at her level to me, because she is my boss now. Also, I am not sure if I can ask her about that. I fear I would lose my status in the relationship. I am not able to bring myself to ask her about that, as I suddenly feel there is a hierarchy between us and doubts such as “Can I ask her?”, “How should I address her”, “How will she take it if I talk?”, “Will I lose my say in household matters”, arise in my mind. I love her dearly, but I have these fears. Changing companies is not a good option now, as the job market is down.
I feel awkward to take orders from her, address her as Madam, wait for her to let me talk to her, facing disciplinary action from her (maybe) and above all, losing the transparency – can I ask her like before what decisions she makes, what went on in her meetings etc…….
What do I do?

How should I behave with her? If I say something that angers her at home, will I have to face the consequences at the office? So, is the free and uninhibited talk a thing of the past? Should I talk every word after thinking twice? I feel ashamed to live as a man…..

I feel bad to think I will have to stand at her door and ask “May I come in Madam”, and obey her orders in front of other people…. I know there may be things I will not know with other bosses, but IT HURTS to know that there are things that my wife will not tell me because I am below her.

I feel the intimacy is lost…… I have to submit to her will, haven’t I?
She has told me that she has got the offer, but she has not asked me whether I’d like her to take it or not…. So far, she’d discuss every thing with me and do only if I am ok with it…..

Are such insecurities the reason why some men don’t want working wives? (Or only want safe careers where there is no chance of her being more successful than they are ). Would anything change if the the wife refuses this promotion offer to save her marriage?

Hierarchy creates distances and loneliness.

Imagine a father who can’t give his son a hug? Should it be so difficult to tell his son he loves him?
In this video, if the son had not taken the picture with him, would it mean he didn’t love his father? In the last part, the man is embarrassed to be ‘emotional’.

Notice the ‘ahem’ (cough) to silence all protests. Would you like to have such a relationship with someone you cared so much for?

Tagline in the ad is apt : ‘Why walk alone in the journey of life?‘

Do keep the men is this ad in mind when you read tomorrow’s post from an anonymous Indian husband whose wife has just got a promotion.

NOTE:  THE POST FROM MR SRAVAN KUMAR HAS BEEN REMOVED.

Related Posts: 

Cynically Engineered: Honor and Masculinity: How Patriarchy Warps Your Thinking

What do men need liberation from.

Boys don’t cry. – Starry Eyed

THE PREVIOUS POST HAS BEEN REMOVED ON REQUEST FROM MR SRAVAN KUMAR (not his real name).

I am aware that Ananya (and many others) genuinely believe what is stated in the previous post, this was her comment.

My response is red.

So far I wrote as a sister in Iaw in a similar situation (to the Brother in law in the last post). I am revealing another side of me – a DIL and a young assistant professor of Chemistry, married to another professor of Chemistry.
I tell you what, this guy has had the guts to take on 4000+ people like you on some public forum, so he cannot be prejudiced,* IMHO. It’s possible he’d have had such bitter experiences with his SIL in his family that someone can write so much publicly.
Somehow, I really admire his courage. And despite the thrashings he has received, I admire him, but somehow, he is a little boyish to say all that in public … bravo, little boy
You see, cleaning baby’s bums by dad is ok if it’s an one time thing, but I can never dump a mother’s role on my husband that too in front of his brother.

(Why not? Why shouldn’t the father care for his own child because an outsider feels it’s not right? In a healthy society, everybody should be able to do what they find fulfilling, so long as they are not hurting anybody. Here the brother in law’s interference might pressurize this happy family to move out to a Nuclear set up.)

And yes, I will not hang up my thalli in the name of modernity, if the family customs demand I do not do it. Doing so is imposing my will on others and hurting an entire family.

(Such restrictions are damaging ‘Indian family values’.DILs are are finding it more peaceful to live in Nuclear Family, even if there is more work and less money, because they seem to prefer peace of mind. Some DILs find they have no choice but to take off the thaali the moment they are out of their (in laws’) homes. Customs are created for us, we are not created for customs. A symbol is of no use unless it is worn out of choice.)

I would rather play by the new rules and EARN the respect rather than DEMAND/BEG for respect.

(What about your respect for them? Don’t they care if YOU respect them or not?  Do they demand or beg you for your respect? Or is your respect not worth having?

Also, if somebody gives you respect only because you do what they want you to do, that is not respect, that’s control.Can you respect someone who threatens to withhold respect unless you do as you are told? )

I am a new DIL and I have a great rapport with my MIL and co., because I was willing to LISTEN and make the necessary changes in the beginning. I showed IN ACTIONS that I respected them. I reap the rewards now.
I Understand and acknowledge the fact that their home is radically different from mine. They are way way wayyyyy too orthodox than my own home. So what? I made it clear that I am learning. When they scold me, I took it as if my parents were chiding me.

(Thousands of women before you have tried this for centuries. Why has obedience and servility not made it easier for women to live with their spouse’s families?

Until recently it was taken for granted that a woman would leave her home and move in with her spouse’s family and then do as she is told, in the name of adjustment. It is not possible to be truly at peace or happy, when you are constantly trying to be what someone else thinks you should be. Indian women today are the most stressed in the world. What’s worst is, these efforts are not appreciated, they are taken for granted as can be seen from this post.

It’s common for in laws to expect a young bride to love them more than her own parents, in return they would respect/care/love her if she does as she is told. Like in this case, many families see not taking dowry a a favor to the SIL.

And yet there are families where women can be like other family members, joke with their in laws, wear whatever they are comfortable wearing, nobody is superior or inferior and everybody’s  personal space is respected.

Many women find that they are  happier if they can live in a Nuclear family, this is sometimes not respected. In the past women had no choice, they were kept in dependence so that they could be forced to stay with the in laws (this BIL suggested the same thing) Now that DILs have a choice, they do move out. What makes the in laws want daughters in law to stay with them when they are not able to accept her ways? Why do you think does this BIL want the SIL to stay with them?

In a family, we are interdependent. There will be no autonomy in a family setup.

Interdependence should not be forced. The general attempt is to keep the DIL in dependence and she is the lowest in the hierarchy. Sometimes if she is not dependent and has the option of walking out, say she has supportive husband or parents or if she has an income of her own, then we see reactions like the BIL’s in this post.

My husband is elder to me, and I respect that. I value my duties as a mother and a wife more than my career.

What if a woman realises that she and her husband can both have fulfilling careers and happy families if they both contribute an support each other? If they become more like partners less like a ward and a guardian?

Because of that smooth and initially submissive relationship, My husband and his family volunteer to take care of my chores, to let me resume my career as an assistant professor.

Why such deviousness to make someone do your share of work? Why won’t you do your chores yourself, or hire help, or request them honestly to help you?

Also consider, what chores are your chores? Making coffee for them is your chore? Washing their clothes is your chore?  Coking for the entire family is your chore? Changing baby’s nappy is your chore alone? Why?

My co-sister who also happens to be in the teaching field does not have their support, as she has not tried to understand their side. I have tried to talk to her, but she does not listen, so I stopped!
This should not be an ego clash.

So she does not receive any support from the family? How does living with the family benefit her? How does it benefit the family?

And a husband is entitled to be my leader (not dictator) and there is nothing wrong in me being the obedient and submissive wife. he respects my views and implements them when they are good.

Do you mean all husbands should be leaders? That is not a very realistic expectation. Many men would like to be life-partners and friends, to be able to enjoy their partner’s company without constantly needing to prove they always know better (as leaders).

In fact, most men who would demand to be leaders would be like this BIL, whiny,  petulant and very immature. Demanding leadership is in itself a sign of insecurity. And what kind of life would an intelligent woman live trying to convince an immature man that he is her ‘leader’? What if she starts earning more than him? Or if she is not afraid of the dark while he is? Or if she drives, negotiates, packs etc more efficiently than he does?

I respect his masculinity and he respects my femininity.

Respecting each other the way you are is a healthier thing to do. Would you disrespect him if he makes excellent coffee? Or if he is afraid of cockroaches, if he shows his emotions, say, is nervous or afraid, or cries when he is upset? Or would be stop respecting you if you can drive a car?

My co-sister does all that this SIL of Shree. Srawan Kumar does and more. now, who is at loss?
She or me? I am happy, I am content, I am respected, I am valued and I am cherished – I have not lost my life. Same family, same MIL, my co-sister does not get all I have. And her husband is a perfect gentleman, like my husband (they were twins). But she treats him much the same way Mr. Srawan Kumar describes.

Are you suggesting she should start wearing her mangal sutra, breastfeeding her baby, changing baby’s diaper, standing up when her father in law passes by – and start treating her husband as her ‘leader’? But why would she do that? Who does that benefit?

There is nothing wrong whatsoever in being quiet initially, learning the ways of a new home – 10 people to change completely for me is unreasonable. They have made subtle accommodations, that’s the best they can do.

I think the only thing they need to do is to consider seriously if they have the maturity and tolerance to live with a new member joining their family, if yes, then they must welcome her and make an effort to get to know her. Her personal habits should never become their business. They must respect the fact that she has agreed chosen to live with them, although she has the choice of living in a nuclear family. It’s unethical, inhuman and criminal to attempt to create circumstances that take that choice away from her. Insecurities do not build healthy relationships.

I do remember, we will be MILs tomorrow!

Wasn’t this post about a Brother in law wanting to be a leader to his wife?

Hi,

I got married when I was 25. I married a man whom I knew in school but mainly stayed in touch online for almost 3-4 years before getting married. After I started staying with him I realised that not only were we incompatible in many aspects but he always treated me like a child and didn’t really respect me as an individual. He kept saying I had the potential to be a better or more ideal person. I was hurled upon constant critisism which made me bitter, frustrated and low self esteemed person. I dealt with this for 3 yrs until I met someone (An American guy, I live in US) who initially was a friend but slowly I started to feel he had more respect for me than my own husband. I was more comfortable being myself and I thought I was a worthy person. Anyways I started liking him so much that I literally told my husband I wanted to leave him. I acted on an impulse cause I had found my freedom and my husband’s first decision was to divorce me. I am not discounting the fact that though I am with this American guy currently I am still grieving about my divorce. I have been struggling with the social stigma I have faced since then, the rejection, the remorse, the guilt.

Though it was my own decision to leave my ex -husband I started doubting myself even though the American guy has been very very good to me all this while. Has treated me like an equal, has been affectionate and valued me as a person. Now almost 2 years has passed since my divorce and my ex husband wants to get back with me. He doesn’t know that I am with the American guy. He never asked me, I never told him. The question I wanted to ask you is I have doubts of making a life and also having children with this American guy. Though he actively participates in Indian culture like we go to Indian movies, he loves Indian food, we go for cultural shows etc. he has never imposed anything on me and has never put any restrictions, I still feel I will be struggling with him due to our cultural differences (specially when we have children). Also I don’t know if  American guy will ever be socially accepted, matter of fact any guy will ever be socially accepted by my family, relatives. My parents even lie about my divorce in India and that makes me feel a very lowly person. They hide this information so I feel I should never get married to the American Guy  because nobody is anyway going to accept him.

I miss the feeling of being at home when American Guy’s  parents visit because they are so different from my parents. I have no adjustment problems with the guy but I don’t know how I will deal with the cultural aspect in the future. Should I still continue with the relation knowing that we are so different in our backgrounds?

Can you please advice? I cannot make another mistake in choosing the right person for marriage. Thanks for listening.

PS

I am happy with the American more than I was with the Indian guy but I can’t tell my extended family that I got divorced cause they will look down upon me and give grief to my parents.

About the Indian guy, when you are young people leave a lasting impression and its hard to forget them and you are attached, even when its negatively affecting you. If the society accepts the American man I will be very satisfied and happy. I think they don’t accept him because I am divorced and he is the “second guy” and  second he is American.

How would you respond to this email by Too Independent?

Hi,

I have always lived life my way. Tactics to get what I wanted include lotsa fighting and stuff. So I have always been branded selfish, ungrateful, insensitive. My relationships never lasted. Of course my fault. Like, when I acted touch-me-not, guy’s possessiveness became too much to handle and suchlike… I don’t want to give up my freedom and independence for anyone…

My sisters know everything about me. Both married and settled abroad. Truly, they are the best daughters. They share everything with mummy/papa. Clothes, career, life partner everything was chosen by my parents till they got married. And they are happy too. May be that’s why they overreact when I move off the track. But ever since I stopped open defiance and started hiding things from them, there is peace.

I have always wanted a bike and now I have saved enough for a Bajaj Avenger. I daren’t tell my parents. I don’t have to, I know… But I am getting sick of hiding things from them and lying. I am an avid back packer and go for adventure, camping trips alone… if my parents know this they will kill me…
What if I get a bike without their permission and cause an accident? I don’t make sense do I?

I have always disappointed my parents… may be I am too independent for them… No one seems to understand that I don’t enjoy hurting people… Why do I always have to choose? Could you share your thoughts on your blog… its not a big deal enough to blog about… after all in a country where bride burnings, rapes and dowry deaths are common, my peevishness seems very petty…

I learned biking secretly when I was in high school… Just as I was screwing up my courage to tell papa that I want a bike, he surprised me with a scooty pep after my high school.. I’m not saying pep is bad and it was really awesome of him… had some great fun with my pep. But desire for bike is burning more than ever, obsession may be…

More than that I want my parents to know the real me and accept it. That I wear short skirts; that I go for unplanned trips; that I am pranking my suitors away because I don’t want to marry at present; that I am trying for M.Phil and will go to City X. (was planning to lie and say I got transferred to City X).

What dya think? Lie or truth? But the prospect of handling the drama… Phew!!

And I know that as a parent you wouldn’t like your kids to lie to you… Hell, I would hate it too if my kids lie to me…

I am yet to learn the art of tact and sensitivity, but really trying…

Thanks,

Too Independent (26)

“Another thing that struck her as wonderful was the Indian sense of family and tradition. ‘I remember asking Abhishek and Aishwarya [Bachchan] on my show, I asked them — How do you still live with your parents, what’s that all about? And Abhishek replied, ‘How do you not — what’s that all about?’ It’s a glorious thing that in this country, families take care of each other.’ ” [link]

It’s all too complex for a foreigner to ‘get it’. Oprah didn’t (seem to) understand that the wonderful Indian family and tradition allows and expects only Indian sons (and their spouse) to live with their parents; and as a result daughters either don’t live, or if they do, atleast not for long with their parents. Daughters remain unwanted by their parents because they are going to care for somebody’s parents and not their own. And despite all this, ’100 per cent of the elderly surveyed stated that their daughters-in-law abused them the most’. [Link] It seems Indian daughters are made to give up their self reliance, freedom, aspirations, happiness, even lives for a system that does not even work.

Oprah also visited the widows of Vrindavan and was appalled that our wonderful Indian sense of family and tradition did not stop us from disrespecting family members if they became  dependent on us. (These were not her words, she was too polite to judge a culture she didn’t quite understand).

She noticed that we seemed to have ‘no respect for nursing homes’ and prefer to care for our elderly ourselves. I doubt if Oprah sensed that our family values didn’t include the common sense in ensuring that widows had empowerment through financial security.

She also seemed to think excluding widows from festivities could be compared to their being treated as being less-equal in the West. Educated, middle class widows staying voluntarily away from religious rituals and auspicious occasions because they don’t want to give someone a chance to humiliate them by asking them to stay away would be difficult to understand for someone who doesn’t really know that the biggest blessing an Indian woman can be given is that she dies before her husband – i.e. dies a sumanagali. No widow, no Widow-ashram. That’s how India solves problems.

Related posts:

100 per cent of the elderly surveyed stated that their daughters-in-law abused them the most.

Dheeyaan dee maa rani, bhudhaapey bharey paani (A mother of daughters lives like a queen while the girls are young, but has to fill water in her old age, when the daughters are married)

If I made Baghban.

Sindoor, Tali and Mangalsutra.

Benetton showing solidarity by covering mannequins?

The Election Commission decided to drape the statutes of Mayawati and party symbol elephant, which Mayawati says are a symbol of Dalit pride.

Question: I totally understand that you now and you before will not be same. My aunt is in same situation sans she does not think that logically on the process of grieving and she is surrounded by many people who wants her to be ‘normal’ specially because she has another child to look after.

IHM: There is no right or wrong way to grieve, but having support, not being judged and not being ‘expected’ to behave in any manner can make it easier.

Crying, not crying, eating, not eating, talking, not talking, not wanting to meet anyone, wanting to be surrounded by sensitive listeners are all fine.

It’s very difficult to be logical when you are going through something as illogical as a child’s death. Many people who are asking a grieving parent to be logical might also say, ‘If this  happened to me I would go mad.’

The loss is too big for a parent to remain the same.

Question: This upsets my Aunt and she feels guilty for not being there fully for her second child. How is your son? Do you talk with each other about Tejaswee? How does he cope with the vacuum in his life?
IHM: We talk about Tejaswee and how we are dealing with our loss, in the initial months my son showed me You Tube videos on the existence of soul and trailers of movies about death of a sibling (Cloud St Peter, The Lovely Bones, others). But if one of us does not want to talk, we respect that.

We read books about grief, we maintained journals of what we were feeling, but many times we didn’t read what the other had written because even that was painful.

Children also grieve.

I realise we are not the way we were, parents change towards surviving children, we have become less hassled by things which might bother other parents, the feeling now  being that we really don’t know what  happens tomorrow. He is encouraged to do what he enjoys doing…

We have phases of being fully there, and then being overwhelmed by grief. With time, we are being there  for him more and more… but it definitely took time. I don’t think grieving can be hastened, think of it like a horrible illness, because the pain is severe and disabling. So, instead of asking the parents to ‘focus on the positive’ or to ‘focus on the surviving children’, the biggest support relatives can give is help them care for their surviving children (the way they would have if both the parents had been physically ill). This is what helped us through.

I remember telling my sister in law that our son lost his parents along with his sister. He has  changed unbelievably, he used to be the baby of the house, generally clowning and irritating her, so much that she made videos of him rapping to annoy her, while she is trying to study…

My brother in law took over his studies almost entirely; my sister in law told our cook that even if she made khichdi for us (we couldn’t eat anything, so we drank a khichdi kind of gruel in tea cups, for many months) she must make complete meals for him. We had moved close to where they live, and she sent over anything special cooked at their place, in case we’d like to have some too.

No pressure or blame, but accepting that we were in too much pain to see anything else.  The parents do realise they are not able to be the kind of parents they would like to be their other children, it’s better to realise that in time they would be able to care for them, but not like they did in the past, it would be a different normal.

In our case, it’s a more easy going parenting now, more flexibility, more acceptance… The parents would benefit from reassurance that until they feel upto it, they have support from relatives/friends (same as in case of severe physical illness).  It’s cruel to ask them to focus on their surviving children when they are in so much pain that they can’t. Like, would we ask an accident victim screaming in pain to think about the good things in his/her life? Child loss is much worse. You can’t think beyond your loss, and those who are going through it want the pain to stop. Memory might be affected, physical health problems and faster aging might happen.

We couldn’t attend weddings or functions in the family, but always, one of his cousins picked and dropped our son; my sister in law suggested we shop for him and came along to help us do that (this was many months later). The 13th day after Tejaswee’s death, was raksha bandhan, his feelings were nowhere in my mind, only the horror of Tejaswee’s death was, but Tejaswee’s friend tied him rakhee, and a cousin took him out.

Some points:

The only way to help is to be there for them, in the way they need you to be there.

Don’t ask them to focus on the positive. They will eventually, when they can, there is no other way to survive, but it can’t be hastened.

Don’t tell them they have other children to think of, they  know that anyway.

Avoid giving advice or judgement. Don’t compare them to other grieving parents you have seen.

They may talk about the death, repeating the same things.

Some parents like to talk about their child (I do) some can’t bear to talk about their child.

The one time I couldn’t bear to be alone was after my daughter died, but it’s fine if someone does want to be left alone.

Respect their wishes. Know that they have no control over how they are feeling. They are going through the worst thing that could happen to them.

Related posts:

The right way to grieve.

If yes, then why? And what kind of punishment?

2. Are threats of violence an insult to the Indian Constitution?

3. Do violent protests achieve their goals better than peaceful protests? Could it be because they are generally politically motivated?

And so,

4. Are violent protests politically motivated/supported, or are they spontaneous?

And finally,

5. Salman Rushdie it seems has visited India earlier and there were no problems, why do you think has this become such an issue this time?

Related Posts:

Who defines the ‘limits’ of your freedom?

My deepest gratitude to the blogosphere and the internet for keeping me sane during the toughest time in my life.

This portrait by Midhun Kumar made me feel I was not the only one remembering her today.

From this photograph by Divesh,

Thank You.