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type="application/json">{"props":{"pageProps":{"httpStatus":200,"posts":[{"id":88440,"slug":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare","date":"2026-09-29T23:03:37","acf":{"designmind_building_blocks":[{"acf_fc_layout":"designmind_header_block","designmind_header":{"image":{"ID":88600,"id":88600,"title":"ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2","filename":"ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2.jpg","filesize":108213,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare/attachment/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":88440,"date":"2026-10-01 16:29:27","modified":"2026-10-01 16:29:27","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":2280,"height":874,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-300x115.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-768x294.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-1024x393.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-1536x589.jpg","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":589,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-2048x785.jpg","2048x2048-width":2048,"2048x2048-height":785}},"video_file":false,"title":"Design Mind frogcast Ep.63 – The Next Frontier of Healthcare","description":"Our Guests: Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Consumer Experience and Design at Sanofi; Ross Landles, Vice President, Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://share.transistor.fm/e/08d860b0\" width=\"100%\" height=\"180\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast, we join Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Consumer Experience and Design at Sanofi, and Ross Landles, Vice President, Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog as they explore how AI is changing the way patients understand their health, make decisions and move through care. Their conversation examines patient centricity, the shifting foundations of trust and how intelligent healthcare can advance without losing its human core.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode above. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor more on the co-evolution between humans and AI download our latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry#download\"\u003efrog Futurescape report ‘Artificial Realities.’\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 63:\u003c/strong\u003e The Next Frontier of Healthcare\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuests:\u003c/strong\u003e Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Consumer Experience and Design at Sanofi; Ross Landles, Vice President, Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:00] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we’re exploring what happens when AI meets one of the most human experiences we all share: \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/sector/healthcare-service-strategy\"\u003ehealthcare\u003c/a\u003e. To do this, you’ll hear a conversation between our expert guests, Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at Sanofi and Ross Landles, Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTogether, they’ll discuss patient centricity, trust and the future of care. They’ll also unpack why patients are beginning to approach healthcare differently, how AI is reshaping expectations and behaviors and what it takes to design experiences that feel both intelligent and deeply human.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere’s their conversation now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:59] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e My name is Ross Landles. I\u0026#8217;m the Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog and my focus is our healthcare work and practice in that space.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSylvia, we had a chance to talk at South by Southwest London. We were talking about frontier behaviors, emerging behaviors, how patients were starting to think about using AI to reshape the care they get, the healthcare system that is around them. And we thought it\u0026#8217;d be super interesting to explore the same topics on Design Mind. But we thought we\u0026#8217;d back into it. It\u0026#8217;d be great to hear a little bit about you. You head up consumer experience at the world\u0026#8217;s leading pharmaceutical business. It’d be great to understand how you think about consumer experience, the impact it can create for patients, and maybe to help start that off, it\u0026#8217;d be great if you could bring to life yourself in your own words what you do and your focus.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:49] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#8217;m Sylvia Park-Ekecs. I am Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/connecting-healthcare-professionals\"\u003eSanofi\u003c/a\u003e, leading the team that brings human-centered design thinking to healthcare innovation. Always asking, how does this improve a consumer\u0026#8217;s life? From our scientists to patients. So, my role really centers around on ensuring that everything we design end-to-end, from digital to patient support solutions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:18] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe tell us a little bit about your backstory. I mean, Head of Consumer Experience at Sanofi, how did you arrive at such a destination?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:26] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, truly for me it’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, really. It’s that I\u0026#8217;ve been very privileged in my journey to be able to have a chance to work with such a various industry\u0026#8217;s brightest and the most talented folks like yourself, actually, Ross, and you know, learn and explore more, right? So, my background is I started as a communication designer, and then along the way, my mentor has told me about technology and the human-centeredness of things. Whatever we create, the experience, whether it\u0026#8217;s through touch, seeing, feeling, really is human communication. We should do it from their perspective, not creating it and just give it to them and go, \u0026#8220;Oh, you will use this.” So, these are some of the things that really helped me to navigate and be able to work in various industries, from entertainment to consumer devices to education and now in healthcare. Really, what I would call, I dare say, kind of less “frontier” in a sense, more conservative. Rightfully so, because this is, we\u0026#8217;re dealing with human lives and taking it to the next level, especially in the age of AI. That\u0026#8217;s going to help us really take us to the next level that we haven\u0026#8217;t seen before.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:56] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e I think frontier is going to be what we want to explore today as we think about, not just novel research, you know, we\u0026#8217;ve been involved in thinking through how people are responding to AI, I guess, age, taking this into their lives, how they\u0026#8217;re responding in terms of new behaviors, new healthcare opportunities, but also sort of new impacts. Tell us a little bit about the impact that you focus on at Sanofi.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:19] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Traditionally, when we talk about user experience, we talk a lot about, you know NPS, user satisfaction scores and usability scores and whatnot. But it\u0026#8217;s also about the business outcomes. The real impact shows up in retention, life cycle and the value and of course, the reduced cost in services and it influences the revenue by experience quality that we deliver. So, as experienced leaders as we are, we should really be able to tie every major initiative to a P\u0026amp;A as well. So, on other areas is that we\u0026#8217;re looking at enterprise-wide experience architecture. So, this is not only about one segment, one area. It really should be setting the global standards, journey maps and the principle that we have that creates the experience DNA, right? That ties together from the product to marketing to service to digital. So, it\u0026#8217;s an ecosystem that our customers feel as one company instead of multiple things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd another one is human-centered AI governance. I know there\u0026#8217;s a lot of \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/solutions/raise-reliable-ai-solution-engineering/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eRAISE framework\u003c/a\u003e and AI governance, but we also need to think about the human-centered AI governance, right? So, this is where we have the one Sanofi experience strategy that leads to the AI deployment as well. So, how do we set up the guardrail where the automation helps versus where it erodes the trust and owning the moments that must stay with human? I dare to say that “human-in-the-loop\u0026#8221; may not be sufficient. Human in control is the way to go, in my opinion. Just because the AI is changing so much and we\u0026#8217;ll go deeper into this. But I honestly don\u0026#8217;t know how it\u0026#8217;s going to take the form or shape. But I think we need to do it together. And of course, with so much changing happening, you know, to build that culture and capability to bring it user-centered, I think that building design fluency and the customer obsession throughout the broader organization through training rituals and shared metrics and outlasting any single initiative, we’ve got to build it together. And of course, the market positioning external signals shaping how the industry defines good experience in healthcare. I think that\u0026#8217;s something that you and I discussed about what is that, right? And how do we do it? And through the thought leadership, of course, you know the recognition, award-caliber, quality and work and then the talents in the market. How do we hire and how do we shift together and bring the best of the best talent? And we can\u0026#8217;t do it alone through strong partnerships to build communities and realizing it together.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:33] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We\u0026#8217;ve been partnering now for six years, and you\u0026#8217;ve been on this mission around patient-centricity and focused on experience. Like when you think about those patients, when you think about who you\u0026#8217;re trying to touch with Sanofi? What does that impact mean to you personally?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:49] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e I think what that means personally for me is that when I mean, every single one of us is a patient one time or the other, right? And that means really getting better, feeling better. That\u0026#8217;s the outcome, right? Because we\u0026#8217;re using, let\u0026#8217;s face it, we might be using buzzwords, we\u0026#8217;re doing incredible work with incredible science that works and how we can help facilitate to make the duration of patients\u0026#8217; experience better, as well as helping our healthcare providers get the scientific data that they need to diagnose all the way, but the bottom line is really making the impact for the patients to feel better and get well as soon as possible, so that they can go back to enjoying their life. To me, that\u0026#8217;s what it means to bring a great experience in healthcare.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:45] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e How do you see healthcare being shaped or reshaped or reinvented right now?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:50] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Patients, we the people, are now benchmarking healthcare against other apps that they use, such as banking, their food delivery, to their online purchase like e-commerce, but not against other healthcare such as hospitals, right? So healthcare is shifting from provider-centric, which seems to be fragmented system and is reactive to a point to \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/from-reactive-healthcare-to-proactive-wellness\"\u003epatient-centric, which should be proactive and unified\u003c/a\u003e. And care itself is moving out of the four walls of the clinic and into the patient\u0026#8217;s home. That\u0026#8217;s what we\u0026#8217;re seeing and that means the friction that used to be tolerated such as, if I get sick, three phone calls to refill prescription to re-entering the same information at every visit reads as quality defect, not as an inconvenience. So, the shift in expectation of the patients and the users are changing. So, underneath it all, also there is a concern and, you know, the trust issue—trust is one constant that holds across all pretty much age groups in every setting. Even a generational device shows how differently people experience care. From grandparents to the grandkids, right? So, it\u0026#8217;s really happening while, I hate to say it, but there is always a budget and that tightens. It\u0026#8217;s a complicated matter and patient experience programs and also the community are coming under renewed scrutiny as hospitals adjust to reduce funding with troubling early signs that patient experience expertise is being cut disproportionately. So, the irony is that the moment patients need experience to hold the system together, the function responsible for it is fighting for its budget line sometimes and I do get it, we do live in reality, so, it\u0026#8217;s the balance of things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:10:52] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Trust in healthcare, trust in, say, science has never been so low and so impacted. Again, when we looked at the research that we\u0026#8217;ve just done, people are starting to trust these new tools, perhaps beyond actually the kind of the foundations they\u0026#8217;ve created, like perhaps beyond what they\u0026#8217;ve actually kind of maybe merited. We saw that for relatively sort of pro users of AI, that they started to show trust of the recommendations comparable to that of their primary healthcare professional. It\u0026#8217;s starting to see some of the implications for people in terms of okay, well then reshaping their behavior because of this. So, it\u0026#8217;s interesting, isn\u0026#8217;t it? These new tools where people are starting to, more quickly than we\u0026#8217;ve seen before, start to scale their kind of, not just their trust, but their kind of basing their actions basing their behaviors on the recommendations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:43] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, very true. And also, you know where the data source is coming from and consistency. That\u0026#8217;s how we build trust, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:51] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Exactly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:52] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e So, clean data, and when you say you\u0026#8217;re going to show up, you’ve got to show up on a regular basis.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:58] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Probably one of the gaps and one of the areas that we can play as sort of people providing digital health is to think about you know how do we extend the evidence base and the database of the LLMs and provide more of that real world insight or that real world, or that clinical insight, so that so that these recommendations are really truly useful for people, for practitioners, and for people. So, patient experience has become really central to Sanofi\u0026#8217;s strategy. It\u0026#8217;s a really important part of healthcare more broadly. Why do you think that\u0026#8217;s happened?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:32] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e I think you know we also have seen in many other industries as well, right? When you put the user experience at the center core as a part of the strategy, you come up at top, right? It\u0026#8217;s more than just satisfaction score. It really needs to become a business survival metric. Because the great product and service experience is one of the key competitive advantages and business metrics that any business, any industry can build. Cost clarity is also one of the biggest drivers of the trust. Nearly 42% of adults have avoided health care altogether because of the potential cost. That\u0026#8217;s not a soft metric. That\u0026#8217;s lost revenue and delayed diagnosis, which is more important, right? Over 83% of patients will only consider a provider with at least a four-star rating, and more than half will avoid a provider with no reviews at all. So, things are shifting. So, the experience now sits directly in the acquisition funnel, not just retention, and AI raises the stakes. As healthcare automates more of the patient journey, clinicians want their organizations deploying AI with these same values they bring to medicine. Benefit without harm, transparency, patience and informal caregivers, including them, and clear accountability throughout this complicated journey, which means the experience now is the mechanism that keeps AI honest from end-to-end. It’s central because it is the only function that positions to hold both the commercial outcome and the trust outcome at once.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:21] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e In our own practice, what we see is, the providers are really looking for teams like Sanofi or kind of pharma teams to come with their experience of the patient, the care pathway, how to find the right patients, how to support them through diagnosis and how to help them as they go on potentially quite a complex long-term treatment schedule and regime and actually what we see, and I guess this is sort of reflected in the work we\u0026#8217;ve done together, is just supporting people through what can be highly complex first-time ever experience that they\u0026#8217;re going to go through to get to health is not something that the providers are able to do at scale across the complexity of all the therapy areas, all the diseases. Where really pharma has the expertise and thinking about these patients, empathizing with them who are trying to go through, again this first-time experience, we can bring a lot of value by understanding that journey, by understanding those moments, and supporting people through it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:16] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:17] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Sylvia, we see that you\u0026#8217;re having a lot of impact. How do you think about the role that design, human-centered thinking, what can it realistically achieve within the context of pharma today?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:28] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Patients, when they go through the experience, it’s not black or white. It\u0026#8217;s life. It\u0026#8217;s kind of gray. This can happen. And I think you talked about journey. What is a journey like? Journey is never straightforward, like 100-meter dash. It\u0026#8217;s a marathon. Sometimes you go around. And I think at every moment that matters and that patients’ needs are, that\u0026#8217;s when we can quickly serve the data and touchpoints that make sense, that\u0026#8217;s useful. I think that\u0026#8217;s where the power of the design and human-centered design thinking will really help, because we\u0026#8217;re putting ourselves in the actual patient and users\u0026#8217; shoes so that we come up with the solution that they need, not the other way around. And there is also a gap, though, that we\u0026#8217;ve seen from between AI investment and AI impact at the moment, right? But the things are changing superfast here. The latest stat that I\u0026#8217;ve come to see is that more than 80% of organizations are not seeing tangible enterprise-level earnings impact from generative AI. And honest diagnosis is that the disconnect isn\u0026#8217;t the technology. It’s that AI experiences aren\u0026#8217;t being designed to resonate with the humans, the people who have to actually use them. That\u0026#8217;s the realistic opening for design. Not owning the molecules, because we\u0026#8217;re not the scientists. Not owning the algorithm, but owning the translation between the layers, between clinical and scientific complexity and human trust, and building the AI-enhanced support that pairs the predictive insight with clean data with human empathy, so the recommendation feels personally relevant, not just medically correct. I think that\u0026#8217;s a huge role that we can play.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:35] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I mean that makes so much sense to us. When we were looking at this space, we saw that in many domains, AI can have a 95% accuracy for diagnostics. There was a randomized clinical trial looking at the effectiveness of an AI tool. 95% accuracy in a kind of synthetic setting, but when it was used by patients in a kind of patient-centered manner, like they were self-directing this diagnosis, it dropped to 35%. And what struck me was the point you made around end-to-end, because I think again the team involved hadn\u0026#8217;t considered, what is the pre-journey to me trying to have this moment, this experience, etc., how do I then take this forward and then integrate it with care that I\u0026#8217;m supposed to be receiving like the different channels that would go through and as you say, whether it\u0026#8217;s in the enterprise or if it\u0026#8217;s in in the kind of world with kind of people trying to receive care, this end-to-end thinking is critical to embed that precise tool, that capability into a moment that\u0026#8217;s going to actually deliver value for people.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:18:37] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e We’re going to take a short break. When we return, Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at Sanofi, and Ross Landles, VP and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog, discuss patient-centricity, the changing role of clinicians and why AI adoption is fundamentally a human experience story.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"ID":86210,"id":86210,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","filesize":77251,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":85084,"date":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","modified":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-300x287.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":287,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-768x735.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-1024x980.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":613,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","1536x1536-width":1268,"1536x1536-height":1214,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","2048x2048-width":1268,"2048x2048-height":1214}},"description":"For more on the co-evolution between humans and AI download our latest frog report ‘Futurescape: Artificial Realities.’  ","report_link":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry#download","type":"internal"}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:25] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Now back to Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at Sanofi, and Ross Landles, Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:34] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Sylvia, Sanofi has chosen to make patient centricity a strategic commitment and a necessity for the business. How did you shape that commitment? How did you think about it? Why did you do that?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:45] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, because at Sanofi patients are truly at the heart of everything we do. It\u0026#8217;s not just a slogan. It\u0026#8217;s how research decisions get made. The company defines is precisely the patient-centric R\u0026amp;D means a commitment to listen and translate patients\u0026#8217; insights into actions that develop new healthcare solutions with meaningful outcomes addressing unmet needs and improving health-related quality of life. So, the distinction that we draw are subtle but very important. We don\u0026#8217;t work for patients; we work with them. Treating the patient community as equal partners rather than end users of a finished product, we believe human plus AI equals greater impact. That\u0026#8217;s the equation that we live by. Sanofi is, we\u0026#8217;re all in AI, but the commitment only means something if experience leads that adoption, not the other way around. So, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/patient-centricity-missing-forest-trees\"\u003epatient-centricity\u003c/a\u003e is the proof point. It\u0026#8217;s what keeps innovation honest.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:20:55] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e This commitment to patient-centricity is both a way of working with people to develop new solutions, but also a driver of the fundamental, like both patient outcomes, but also fundamental business outcomes. And it\u0026#8217;s like it\u0026#8217;s the two-sided equation that you guys get to focus on and are making impact around.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:13] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e We always start with understanding the patient. We discover, we design and we develop and deploy.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:57] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e What does patient-centricity actually look like in practice?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:22] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e In practice, it\u0026#8217;s more structural, right? Because it is operational. So, we built the patient community promise, a set of commitments developed with input from over 80 patients and caregiver organizations worldwide, endorsed by the executive committee itself. So, the company\u0026#8217;s own patent charter is explicit that this goes beyond the patient alone. It formalizes accountability to both patient and caregiver communities. This also includes informal caregiver. The family members and friends and so on, engaging them systematically at every stage of the medicine and vaccine lifecycle. That caregiver inclusion is baked into how we define the community it serves. Patient-centricity to us means intentionally listening to individuals living with disease, their caregivers and credible advocacy voices that translates what\u0026#8217;s heard into meaningful actions. Now here\u0026#8217;s where I\u0026#8217;ll add my own personal belief on top of what\u0026#8217;s shared. I\u0026#8217;ll say that the next part, this part, total transparency is my perspective, not company’s. The informal caregiver is the most under-designed-for person in the entire healthcare system. But they\u0026#8217;re the ones managing medication schedules, nutrition, diet, translating clinical language, at 2 am holding the emotional weight of the patient, that patients can\u0026#8217;t always carry alone and almost no experience strategy in the industry is built around them in a systematic way. It\u0026#8217;s not only about the patient; it\u0026#8217;s about the whole ecosystem—informal and formal caregivers, the healthcare providers, navigating fragmented systems, the hospitals, trying to coordinate care, tests, across the silos. The real patient-centricity, in my humble opinion, means designing for the entire web of people who make a patient\u0026#8217;s recovery possible together. That\u0026#8217;s my conviction, and I think it\u0026#8217;s the next frontier the industry hasn\u0026#8217;t fully claimed yet. But I really believe that there are more and more folks recognizing it and we\u0026#8217;re moving toward this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:57] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We\u0026#8217;ve been in this journey together and what\u0026#8217;s quite clear is it\u0026#8217;s not just a moment; it\u0026#8217;s an ongoing journey, it\u0026#8217;s a reinvention. Why do you see this as an ongoing journey, not like a one-off transformation?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:24:09] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Life science is, right now, is where the internet was in the mid \u0026#8217;90s, I dare say. So, we\u0026#8217;re at the beginning stage. .And everyone feels it\u0026#8217;s going to change everything, but almost nobody has seen the shape of that change yet, right? Because it\u0026#8217;s too early on, and we heard it even from the tech leaders who are at the forefront of the AI frontier. They\u0026#8217;re saying, \u0026#8220;Hey, life science is one area that they foresee is going to be tremendously change with the powerful computing, like supercomputing, as well as the, you know, scientific data coming together. We can really accelerate that.” Right? And calling this moment a more of a transformation implies before and after to me. To me that means there is a beginning and the end, and I don\u0026#8217;t believe that\u0026#8217;s what\u0026#8217;s happening. It\u0026#8217;s going to be a continuous journey because all the emerging tech will come. At the moment, as we know, AI has been around since I believe 1955, but natural language, LLM, all these really change the world. So, these are the tools that help us evolve faster than how we understand how people are going to use them. So, there\u0026#8217;s a little bit of a speedometer of differential there. So, every time when AI gets better at prediction, the personalization and automation at the touchpoint, the human-centered questions like “who\u0026#8217;s going to use it?” it needs to reset. So that balance, keeping that is little difficult, but we haven\u0026#8217;t figured it out yet. So, we have to ask some of these questions, right? Does this still feel like care, or does it start to feel like process? Does it still build trust, or does it quietly erode things? I mean, these questions don\u0026#8217;t get answered once, they get asked again every time when technology evolves. So that\u0026#8217;s why I think you know it\u0026#8217;s a journey, not a project. Even with AI in healthcare, we can accelerate. For example, I do not believe that clinical trial periods can be accelerated because that\u0026#8217;s human factors. When you try some new medicine, it takes time for actual physical human bodies to process it and that\u0026#8217;s how we\u0026#8217;re going to learn and it\u0026#8217;s the same thing from psychological as well, right? So, the human interaction, you can\u0026#8217;t rush that. That\u0026#8217;s another point why I think this is a continuous, ongoing journey and this, I think we need to figure out the timing of it, so that we don\u0026#8217;t all get excited about shiny new technology. “Oh my god, we can do this and we can do that.” That\u0026#8217;s wonderful. But in order to make a real impact, we need to take the proper time, especially with the people who are going to actually use it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:14] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We researched some of the frontier behaviors that people are having around new AI tools and one of the things that emerged is actually this kind of split cohort, which I guess we\u0026#8217;ve seen in most technology rollouts. We see this kind of advanced user group who feels somewhere between 30% to 50% more confident, comfortable acting alone given AI advice, they feel more optimism based on the AI consultation, they feel higher trust in its outcomes and then you have another cohort who is much less comfortable using these tools is much less frequently using them in their regular life and obviously those metrics are significantly different. I think one of the things that teams like ours are going to have to do is really think through, okay, there is very naturally going to be a new digital AI divide as we try and roll out these tools and support people in increasingly sophisticated ways using AI. So, how do we design for both the people at the front, at the leading edge, and also the tailing edge and make sure that we don\u0026#8217;t have another kind of cohort of people who have a care gap, who have don\u0026#8217;t have the same access to the right care because of these possibilities.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:28:29] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely. It\u0026#8217;s always about the people. And new technology, these new tools are here to help people\u0026#8217;s experience and improve quality of life, right? The moment we start designing for technology first and the person second, we lost the plot. That\u0026#8217;s the thread that has to hold, no matter what comes next. It\u0026#8217;s about the people.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:28:55] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We recently spoke together at South by Southwest London. We looked at how patient behaviors are evolving in the age of AI and we did some research on that to complement, I think, some of the great attitudinal work that was out there. So, what we saw, there are many, many good research or kind of demographic population level firms thinking about how people\u0026#8217;s attitudes to AI in healthcare, but we didn\u0026#8217;t see so many people really focusing on new behaviors and so we wanted to focus on that as a company, we felt that we had something that we could bring to that. We ran a study with 1,000 participants in the US, 250 people in the UK and we focused it on AI users. So, we knew we were deliberately going for people who were already starting to use AI tools and the reason for that is we wanted to look what was happening at the frontier and to use some of that understanding to be able to bring back into our work together as leaders in AI and healthcare and also to be able to talk and evangelize within the industry. We looked at three lenses: trust, agency and pathways. So, let\u0026#8217;s start to explore some of those: trust. So, we think about this AI movement. Sylvia, is healthcare entering an era where trust is earned for experience rather than simply expertise alone?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:30:15] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e AI adoption is fundamentally a human experience story, not a technology story, in my opinion, because experts used to be enough on its own, like a clinician\u0026#8217;s credential, a brand\u0026#8217;s pedigree and whatnot. But because patients have no other way to evaluate quality previously, but now patients are comparing every healthcare interaction to the best consumer-grade digital experience that they use daily. If the experience feels clumsy, fragmented, or cold, expertise alone doesn\u0026#8217;t save it. They have options. They\u0026#8217;re going to get up and go. So, the trust gets built moment-by-moment through how the experience actually feels to navigate, giving the promise and showing up every single time. So that means experience design is not anymore, a nice-to-have. It\u0026#8217;s becoming one of the clearest ways healthcare brands differentiate themselves from each other.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:31:26] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We\u0026#8217;re entering an age where, for heavy AI users, what we saw in our research was that the doctor still remains the most trusted source overall. Eighty-five percent of people stated their behaviors would be shaped by their trust in their doctor. But for people who are kind of pro-users of AI, the advice they\u0026#8217;re getting from the LLMs, from their chatbots, rises to the second-most trusted source, right above public health messaging, above friends and family, even. And so, the question I think for experienced designers is how do we leverage that into the best advice possible, the end-to-end way to manage people through the care pathway which they may be choosing for themselves and \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/healthcare-needs-better-cx-design\"\u003ehow do we start to think about the experiences we provide people downstream of this trust\u003c/a\u003e that they have in these new tools and the advice they\u0026#8217;re getting, bringing together different perspectives, their own medical information, best practice, etc.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:32:23] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Perhaps it\u0026#8217;s also because many of the AI tools, if they\u0026#8217;re good ones, will share the data source. Patients can easily see where the sources are coming from and they can double click and go into it and dig deeper if they choose to and I think that transparency is really making the big difference, right? Before the internet, everybody had to go to the library and had to read everything and people don\u0026#8217;t have time. So of course, they\u0026#8217;re going to trust also the healthcare providers because they are the experts. But now, patients have that ability in seconds to be able to access the data from the trusted sources, and I think that\u0026#8217;s making a big difference.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:09] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, absolutely and still we have work to do together. Not just in the industry, but beyond trying to help people to understand. Okay, the explainability of my advice, one of the things that we saw in our research was around 50% of people had little or no understanding of where the health information within an AI tool had come from or how to kind of verify it, or how to think about it, how precise it might be, given what they\u0026#8217;d prompted into it. And certainly, trying to think about those experiences and how to involve other sources, healthcare professionals and to make it more of an inclusive experience is going to be important, in our opinion, given what we\u0026#8217;re seeing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:05] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, very true.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:51] Ross Landles\u003c/strong\u003e: Agency was super interesting for us when we did the research. Actually, one of the things that we were really surprised by was this kind of notion of reverse hypochondria. So, when people were using AI tools, they actually felt more confident, more confident to act. Whether that meant following the advice or just working with their healthcare professional, they just had more confidence. They felt less anxious about their disease and so it was an interesting area for us to explore. Sylvia, when you think about it, when patients arrive with AI-generated insights, how do you think about the care system? For example, the role of healthcare professionals. How do you think this is going to evolve?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:34:28] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Clinicians increasingly are becoming interpreters and validators rather than sole gatekeepers of information. It\u0026#8217;s not a threat to their role. They are the experts. We need them. And it\u0026#8217;s actually a more human one. AI can support both the patient and the provider simultaneously. But strong design is what determines whether the dynamic strengthens the provider relationship or undermines it, right? So, when it\u0026#8217;s done well, the patient walks in more informed, the conversation goes deeper, faster, and the clinician, healthcare provider, spends less time on basic education and more time on the judgment call only they make. Recently, I went to go see a physician and it was very interesting because you know, of course, I use an AI tool to inform myself about my how I\u0026#8217;m feeling, oh my god, what do I have, am I dying, or you know, do I just have a bug, what do I have. And my doctor actually he turned around and shared his monitor and goes, “Sylvia, you see this? I\u0026#8217;m trying to look up what you\u0026#8217;re experiencing” and he was able to go deeper to the point where he said, “Hey, I\u0026#8217;m going to send you to the specialist.” So, it was a very different experience from both ends versus when I, you know, before this whole AI and data sharing, where it would have been like, “oh, I don\u0026#8217;t feel good, doctor,” and the doctor was just telling me it\u0026#8217;s just one direction, right? So, that\u0026#8217;s how it was just kind of changing. I believe you know it\u0026#8217;s going to help patients own more and get more informed and healthcare providers can really focus on where it makes more sense, more impactful, rather than basic education.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:36:27] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e I think what\u0026#8217;s interesting is we saw patients have embraced certainly this role, like as like help me find out about my health. Like help me understand this thing, help me go into the doctor with more understanding and a set of questions, a way that I\u0026#8217;m thinking about the healthcare system, etc. And then on the flip side, doctors are often using these tools. We know there are specific platforms they\u0026#8217;re using, and then of course they\u0026#8217;re also making use of all the same tools that patients are. What\u0026#8217;s interesting is both sides are very reluctant at the moment to embrace the kind of interconnect of those spaces. But I do think it\u0026#8217;s going to be something that we need to think through as people designing for that system, for that space. Because at the moment, you know, we\u0026#8217;re missing lots of opportunities because of our own natural human tendency not to want to, say, question the role of the healthcare professional. We also know that many healthcare professionals are also looking for clarity around what it means from a regulatory perspective, and of course, that\u0026#8217;s something I think we\u0026#8217;re going to see evolve over the next few years.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:37:26] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e AI can genuinely help patients ask better questions and better-informed patients tend to have more productive consultations with healthcare providers. But the agency without the guardrails becomes overconfidence and overconfidence in medical context can be dangerous. So, the design has to hold both things at once, building confidence, but the design in the friction points that redirects a patient back to the clinician healthcare provider at the right moments. I think that\u0026#8217;s the key. That balance between the confidence and safety is one of the harder design problems in this space and it\u0026#8217;s not a one-time fix, as we\u0026#8217;ve been talking about before, is a journey, right? So, it has to be built into the experience journey continuously into the moment that matters.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:23] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e When we did the research, we saw that among sort of pro users, 30% of those users had avoided going to see a doctor because AI had resolved their concern and I think trying to put some parameters around that and helping people to understand that in totality is going to be is something that we need to focus on in the next evolution of this set of tools, because again, those are those are those are big decisions and avoiding, again would not be the advice of an OpenAI or a kind of Anthropic or any of these tools that people are getting their advice from. So, something to think through and to try and help people get right.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe other dimension we looked at was pathways and here we see patients reshaping their care pathway and creating their own almost bespoke care pathway, if you like, creating their flow through the healthcare system. How do you think about that? And I guess within that, what do you think becomes the North Star for creating coherent experience as these pathways become distributed and if you like, atomized by patients and by the AI tools.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:39:28] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Relatively speaking, the North Star is simple to say and hard to execute, as we know. So, patient experience has to feel like one journey, not a handoff between multiple organizations, from doctors to doctors and to hospitals to the testing places to insurance to pharma, pharmacy that don\u0026#8217;t talk to each other. Then it feels disjointed, fragmented. So, connected ecosystems are both technology challenge and an experience challenge. You can have the perfect data interoperability and still deliver a confusing experience if nobody designed for continuity, because it\u0026#8217;s broken, right? The consistency and continuity become the metric that matters, not a single touchpoint in isolation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:40:27] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the other kind of dimension to this for me is also then how do we think about data and data permissions. At the moment, we can have a very blunt way of thinking about data permissions, but we can imagine as we go through these more complex distributed care pathways that I\u0026#8217;m providing lots of data as I go and some of that I\u0026#8217;m confident to pass to, say, my healthcare professional, some of it I\u0026#8217;m confident to pass to my LLM, some of that I\u0026#8217;m confident to pass to my caregiver, some of it I may even be confident enough to pass to insurers where I need to get kind of insight and prior auth and starting to think about data more of a living object, much more atomized and actually giving really nuanced permission across my data is going to be vital to getting to that end-to-end flow that you say. So, it feels like one experience. We know there are multiple actors. We know that many people need to solve the care paradigm and I\u0026#8217;m able to be really conscious about my data because, again, what we saw is that people don\u0026#8217;t necessarily want their data going to say their employer or their insurer for obvious reasons, right? They think they\u0026#8217;re going to get discriminated against, but they could see it going that way as in a controlled fashion, and as it\u0026#8217;s going to create more of an outcome for them. So, I think moving beyond binary data is going to be really important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:41:42] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I totally agree because if you take a look at other industries such as banking. It\u0026#8217;s your money. You have full visibility and access to every touchpoint, whatever your investment, banking or how you get paid and so on, right? But we\u0026#8217;re not there yet with healthcare yet. So, you know, when we get there, I think that\u0026#8217;s going to be, opening up for the next generation of healthcare experience. It\u0026#8217;s hard to do. It’s very hard to do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:42:14] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe we can talk about that now. We\u0026#8217;ve been talking through this conversation about what we\u0026#8217;re seeing in the near future, right? Like AI as it is today, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/behavioral-science-health-wellness-product-design\"\u003eAI is shaping patient behavior today\u003c/a\u003e and also the importance and centrality of patient experience. But let\u0026#8217;s look a little bit ahead. When you look through the vantage point that you have in your position at Sanofi, what do you see as the most significant shift that you\u0026#8217;re tracking in the relationship between patients, technology, AI, healthcare systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:42:48] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think AI has become something closer to an always-on health companion, less of a tool, right? So, you open when something is wrong more of a continuous presence that shifts care from reactive to proactive and predictive. We can think about it from wearables that people wear to track their sleep, heart rate and all those. That shift only earns trust—which is super important—if three things hold together at once. First is a scientific rigor; second is ethical AI; and third is the genuinely great experience design. And if we miss any of these three, the whole thing will probably collapse, disjointed and fragmented. No matter how sophisticated the technology gets.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:43:45] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e When we researched this, the idea of having an always-on AI patient companion that was guiding you, keeping and storing your data, supporting every decision, your companion across the care pathway. That future concept was extremely well received by people. What\u0026#8217;s interesting is if we look five years ahead, we\u0026#8217;ve always wondered, is there going to be a platform in play in digital health? And different teams have tried, teams from payers, teams from providers, and just because of the fragmentation of the overall system, they’ve not succeeded technology companies haven\u0026#8217;t succeeded because it\u0026#8217;s frankly too hard for them, right? They just don\u0026#8217;t have the visibility of all the therapy areas, the conditions, how to manage patients through those. They\u0026#8217;re just not well positioned to do that. Increasingly these tools look like they will be that platform and they will be that companion. And I think for us, it\u0026#8217;s going to be about them providing much more the detailed evidence or the kind of the pathway that can support patients through the journey of managing their care using these tools.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:44:51] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, interoperability is going to change and revolutionize.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:44:57] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and more from our conversation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our guests, Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at Sanofi, and Ross Landles, Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eand Spotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"ID":88443,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-09-29 17:23:02","post_date_gmt":"2026-09-29 17:23:02","post_content":"","post_title":"Ross Landles","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"ross-landles","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-10-07 16:09:48","post_modified_gmt":"2026-10-07 16:09:48","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=88443","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Ross Landles","bio":"\u003cp\u003eRoss Landles is Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog, the Reinvention and Experience partner. He leads a 250-strong global strategy team that fuses creativity and strategic thinking—treating strategy as a creative act. The founder of frog’s London studio and a member of the global leadership team, Ross has driven the creation of new ventures, delivered enterprise-scale value, and cultivated cultures of innovation within some of the world’s most ambitious organizations. His work lives at the intersection of emerging technology and human experience, including pioneering applications of AI to reshape how businesses think, act and grow.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Vice President, Global Head of Business Reinvention, frog","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":88641,"id":88641,"title":"Ross-Landles-author2","filename":"Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","filesize":83534,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/sylvia-park-ekecs/attachment/ross-landles-author2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"ross-landles-author2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":88443,"date":"2026-10-07 16:09:33","modified":"2026-10-07 16:09:33","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":979,"height":1024,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2-287x300.jpg","medium-width":287,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2-768x803.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":669,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":669,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","1536x1536-width":979,"1536x1536-height":1024,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","2048x2048-width":979,"2048x2048-height":1024}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/sylvia-park-ekecs/"},{"ID":16815,"post_author":"16","post_date":"2020-11-20 23:18:33","post_date_gmt":"2020-11-20 23:18:33","post_content":"","post_title":"Elizabeth Wood","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"elizabeth-wood","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2023-08-20 08:53:37","post_modified_gmt":"2023-08-20 08:53:37","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=16815","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Elizabeth Wood","bio":"\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eElizabeth tells design stories for frog. She first joined the New York studio in 2011, working on multidisciplinary teams to design award-winning products and services. Today, Elizabeth works out of the London studio on the global frog marketing team, leading editorial content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eShe has written and edited hundreds of articles about design and technology, and has given talks on the role of content in a weird, digital world. Her work has been published in \u003ci\u003eThe Content Strategist\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eUNDO-Ordinary\u003c/i\u003e magazine and the book \u003ci\u003eAlone Together: Tales of Sisterhood and Solitude in Latin America\u003c/i\u003e (Bogotá International Press).\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003ePreviously, Elizabeth was Communications Manager for UN OCHA’s Centre for Humanitarian Data in The Hague. She is a graduate of the Master’s Programme for Creative Writing at Birkbeck College, University of London.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Host, Design Mind frogcast \u0026 Editorial Director, frog Global Marketing","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":21629,"id":21629,"title":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2","filename":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","filesize":61336,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/12203718/Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/elizabeth-wood/attachment/elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2/","alt":"","author":"22","description":"","caption":"","name":"elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":16815,"date":"2021-03-12 20:37:18","modified":"2021-03-12 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16:29:27","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":2280,"height":874,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-300x115.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-768x294.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-1024x393.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-1536x589.jpg","1536X1536Width":1536,"1536X1536Height":589,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ep-63-the-next-frontier-of-healthcare-header2-2048x785.jpg","2048X2048Width":2048,"2048X2048Height":785}},"videoFile":false,"title":"Design Mind frogcast Ep.63 – The Next Frontier of Healthcare","description":"Our Guests: Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Consumer Experience and Design at Sanofi; Ross Landles, Vice President, Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://share.transistor.fm/e/08d860b0\" width=\"100%\" height=\"180\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast, we join Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Consumer Experience and Design at Sanofi, and Ross Landles, Vice President, Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog as they explore how AI is changing the way patients understand their health, make decisions and move through care. Their conversation examines patient centricity, the shifting foundations of trust and how intelligent healthcare can advance without losing its human core.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode above. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor more on the co-evolution between humans and AI download our latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry#download\"\u003efrog Futurescape report ‘Artificial Realities.’\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 63:\u003c/strong\u003e The Next Frontier of Healthcare\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuests:\u003c/strong\u003e Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Consumer Experience and Design at Sanofi; Ross Landles, Vice President, Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:00] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we’re exploring what happens when AI meets one of the most human experiences we all share: \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/sector/healthcare-service-strategy\"\u003ehealthcare\u003c/a\u003e. To do this, you’ll hear a conversation between our expert guests, Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at Sanofi and Ross Landles, Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTogether, they’ll discuss patient centricity, trust and the future of care. They’ll also unpack why patients are beginning to approach healthcare differently, how AI is reshaping expectations and behaviors and what it takes to design experiences that feel both intelligent and deeply human.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere’s their conversation now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:59] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e My name is Ross Landles. I\u0026#8217;m the Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog and my focus is our healthcare work and practice in that space.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSylvia, we had a chance to talk at South by Southwest London. We were talking about frontier behaviors, emerging behaviors, how patients were starting to think about using AI to reshape the care they get, the healthcare system that is around them. And we thought it\u0026#8217;d be super interesting to explore the same topics on Design Mind. But we thought we\u0026#8217;d back into it. It\u0026#8217;d be great to hear a little bit about you. You head up consumer experience at the world\u0026#8217;s leading pharmaceutical business. It’d be great to understand how you think about consumer experience, the impact it can create for patients, and maybe to help start that off, it\u0026#8217;d be great if you could bring to life yourself in your own words what you do and your focus.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:49] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#8217;m Sylvia Park-Ekecs. I am Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/connecting-healthcare-professionals\"\u003eSanofi\u003c/a\u003e, leading the team that brings human-centered design thinking to healthcare innovation. Always asking, how does this improve a consumer\u0026#8217;s life? From our scientists to patients. So, my role really centers around on ensuring that everything we design end-to-end, from digital to patient support solutions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:18] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe tell us a little bit about your backstory. I mean, Head of Consumer Experience at Sanofi, how did you arrive at such a destination?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:26] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, truly for me it’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, really. It’s that I\u0026#8217;ve been very privileged in my journey to be able to have a chance to work with such a various industry\u0026#8217;s brightest and the most talented folks like yourself, actually, Ross, and you know, learn and explore more, right? So, my background is I started as a communication designer, and then along the way, my mentor has told me about technology and the human-centeredness of things. Whatever we create, the experience, whether it\u0026#8217;s through touch, seeing, feeling, really is human communication. We should do it from their perspective, not creating it and just give it to them and go, \u0026#8220;Oh, you will use this.” So, these are some of the things that really helped me to navigate and be able to work in various industries, from entertainment to consumer devices to education and now in healthcare. Really, what I would call, I dare say, kind of less “frontier” in a sense, more conservative. Rightfully so, because this is, we\u0026#8217;re dealing with human lives and taking it to the next level, especially in the age of AI. That\u0026#8217;s going to help us really take us to the next level that we haven\u0026#8217;t seen before.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:56] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e I think frontier is going to be what we want to explore today as we think about, not just novel research, you know, we\u0026#8217;ve been involved in thinking through how people are responding to AI, I guess, age, taking this into their lives, how they\u0026#8217;re responding in terms of new behaviors, new healthcare opportunities, but also sort of new impacts. Tell us a little bit about the impact that you focus on at Sanofi.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:19] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Traditionally, when we talk about user experience, we talk a lot about, you know NPS, user satisfaction scores and usability scores and whatnot. But it\u0026#8217;s also about the business outcomes. The real impact shows up in retention, life cycle and the value and of course, the reduced cost in services and it influences the revenue by experience quality that we deliver. So, as experienced leaders as we are, we should really be able to tie every major initiative to a P\u0026amp;A as well. So, on other areas is that we\u0026#8217;re looking at enterprise-wide experience architecture. So, this is not only about one segment, one area. It really should be setting the global standards, journey maps and the principle that we have that creates the experience DNA, right? That ties together from the product to marketing to service to digital. So, it\u0026#8217;s an ecosystem that our customers feel as one company instead of multiple things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd another one is human-centered AI governance. I know there\u0026#8217;s a lot of \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/solutions/raise-reliable-ai-solution-engineering/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eRAISE framework\u003c/a\u003e and AI governance, but we also need to think about the human-centered AI governance, right? So, this is where we have the one Sanofi experience strategy that leads to the AI deployment as well. So, how do we set up the guardrail where the automation helps versus where it erodes the trust and owning the moments that must stay with human? I dare to say that “human-in-the-loop\u0026#8221; may not be sufficient. Human in control is the way to go, in my opinion. Just because the AI is changing so much and we\u0026#8217;ll go deeper into this. But I honestly don\u0026#8217;t know how it\u0026#8217;s going to take the form or shape. But I think we need to do it together. And of course, with so much changing happening, you know, to build that culture and capability to bring it user-centered, I think that building design fluency and the customer obsession throughout the broader organization through training rituals and shared metrics and outlasting any single initiative, we’ve got to build it together. And of course, the market positioning external signals shaping how the industry defines good experience in healthcare. I think that\u0026#8217;s something that you and I discussed about what is that, right? And how do we do it? And through the thought leadership, of course, you know the recognition, award-caliber, quality and work and then the talents in the market. How do we hire and how do we shift together and bring the best of the best talent? And we can\u0026#8217;t do it alone through strong partnerships to build communities and realizing it together.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:33] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We\u0026#8217;ve been partnering now for six years, and you\u0026#8217;ve been on this mission around patient-centricity and focused on experience. Like when you think about those patients, when you think about who you\u0026#8217;re trying to touch with Sanofi? What does that impact mean to you personally?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:49] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e I think what that means personally for me is that when I mean, every single one of us is a patient one time or the other, right? And that means really getting better, feeling better. That\u0026#8217;s the outcome, right? Because we\u0026#8217;re using, let\u0026#8217;s face it, we might be using buzzwords, we\u0026#8217;re doing incredible work with incredible science that works and how we can help facilitate to make the duration of patients\u0026#8217; experience better, as well as helping our healthcare providers get the scientific data that they need to diagnose all the way, but the bottom line is really making the impact for the patients to feel better and get well as soon as possible, so that they can go back to enjoying their life. To me, that\u0026#8217;s what it means to bring a great experience in healthcare.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:45] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e How do you see healthcare being shaped or reshaped or reinvented right now?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:50] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Patients, we the people, are now benchmarking healthcare against other apps that they use, such as banking, their food delivery, to their online purchase like e-commerce, but not against other healthcare such as hospitals, right? So healthcare is shifting from provider-centric, which seems to be fragmented system and is reactive to a point to \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/from-reactive-healthcare-to-proactive-wellness\"\u003epatient-centric, which should be proactive and unified\u003c/a\u003e. And care itself is moving out of the four walls of the clinic and into the patient\u0026#8217;s home. That\u0026#8217;s what we\u0026#8217;re seeing and that means the friction that used to be tolerated such as, if I get sick, three phone calls to refill prescription to re-entering the same information at every visit reads as quality defect, not as an inconvenience. So, the shift in expectation of the patients and the users are changing. So, underneath it all, also there is a concern and, you know, the trust issue—trust is one constant that holds across all pretty much age groups in every setting. Even a generational device shows how differently people experience care. From grandparents to the grandkids, right? So, it\u0026#8217;s really happening while, I hate to say it, but there is always a budget and that tightens. It\u0026#8217;s a complicated matter and patient experience programs and also the community are coming under renewed scrutiny as hospitals adjust to reduce funding with troubling early signs that patient experience expertise is being cut disproportionately. So, the irony is that the moment patients need experience to hold the system together, the function responsible for it is fighting for its budget line sometimes and I do get it, we do live in reality, so, it\u0026#8217;s the balance of things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:10:52] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Trust in healthcare, trust in, say, science has never been so low and so impacted. Again, when we looked at the research that we\u0026#8217;ve just done, people are starting to trust these new tools, perhaps beyond actually the kind of the foundations they\u0026#8217;ve created, like perhaps beyond what they\u0026#8217;ve actually kind of maybe merited. We saw that for relatively sort of pro users of AI, that they started to show trust of the recommendations comparable to that of their primary healthcare professional. It\u0026#8217;s starting to see some of the implications for people in terms of okay, well then reshaping their behavior because of this. So, it\u0026#8217;s interesting, isn\u0026#8217;t it? These new tools where people are starting to, more quickly than we\u0026#8217;ve seen before, start to scale their kind of, not just their trust, but their kind of basing their actions basing their behaviors on the recommendations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:43] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, very true. And also, you know where the data source is coming from and consistency. That\u0026#8217;s how we build trust, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:51] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Exactly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:52] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e So, clean data, and when you say you\u0026#8217;re going to show up, you’ve got to show up on a regular basis.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:58] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Probably one of the gaps and one of the areas that we can play as sort of people providing digital health is to think about you know how do we extend the evidence base and the database of the LLMs and provide more of that real world insight or that real world, or that clinical insight, so that so that these recommendations are really truly useful for people, for practitioners, and for people. So, patient experience has become really central to Sanofi\u0026#8217;s strategy. It\u0026#8217;s a really important part of healthcare more broadly. Why do you think that\u0026#8217;s happened?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:32] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e I think you know we also have seen in many other industries as well, right? When you put the user experience at the center core as a part of the strategy, you come up at top, right? It\u0026#8217;s more than just satisfaction score. It really needs to become a business survival metric. Because the great product and service experience is one of the key competitive advantages and business metrics that any business, any industry can build. Cost clarity is also one of the biggest drivers of the trust. Nearly 42% of adults have avoided health care altogether because of the potential cost. That\u0026#8217;s not a soft metric. That\u0026#8217;s lost revenue and delayed diagnosis, which is more important, right? Over 83% of patients will only consider a provider with at least a four-star rating, and more than half will avoid a provider with no reviews at all. So, things are shifting. So, the experience now sits directly in the acquisition funnel, not just retention, and AI raises the stakes. As healthcare automates more of the patient journey, clinicians want their organizations deploying AI with these same values they bring to medicine. Benefit without harm, transparency, patience and informal caregivers, including them, and clear accountability throughout this complicated journey, which means the experience now is the mechanism that keeps AI honest from end-to-end. It’s central because it is the only function that positions to hold both the commercial outcome and the trust outcome at once.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:21] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e In our own practice, what we see is, the providers are really looking for teams like Sanofi or kind of pharma teams to come with their experience of the patient, the care pathway, how to find the right patients, how to support them through diagnosis and how to help them as they go on potentially quite a complex long-term treatment schedule and regime and actually what we see, and I guess this is sort of reflected in the work we\u0026#8217;ve done together, is just supporting people through what can be highly complex first-time ever experience that they\u0026#8217;re going to go through to get to health is not something that the providers are able to do at scale across the complexity of all the therapy areas, all the diseases. Where really pharma has the expertise and thinking about these patients, empathizing with them who are trying to go through, again this first-time experience, we can bring a lot of value by understanding that journey, by understanding those moments, and supporting people through it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:16] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:17] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Sylvia, we see that you\u0026#8217;re having a lot of impact. How do you think about the role that design, human-centered thinking, what can it realistically achieve within the context of pharma today?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:28] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Patients, when they go through the experience, it’s not black or white. It\u0026#8217;s life. It\u0026#8217;s kind of gray. This can happen. And I think you talked about journey. What is a journey like? Journey is never straightforward, like 100-meter dash. It\u0026#8217;s a marathon. Sometimes you go around. And I think at every moment that matters and that patients’ needs are, that\u0026#8217;s when we can quickly serve the data and touchpoints that make sense, that\u0026#8217;s useful. I think that\u0026#8217;s where the power of the design and human-centered design thinking will really help, because we\u0026#8217;re putting ourselves in the actual patient and users\u0026#8217; shoes so that we come up with the solution that they need, not the other way around. And there is also a gap, though, that we\u0026#8217;ve seen from between AI investment and AI impact at the moment, right? But the things are changing superfast here. The latest stat that I\u0026#8217;ve come to see is that more than 80% of organizations are not seeing tangible enterprise-level earnings impact from generative AI. And honest diagnosis is that the disconnect isn\u0026#8217;t the technology. It’s that AI experiences aren\u0026#8217;t being designed to resonate with the humans, the people who have to actually use them. That\u0026#8217;s the realistic opening for design. Not owning the molecules, because we\u0026#8217;re not the scientists. Not owning the algorithm, but owning the translation between the layers, between clinical and scientific complexity and human trust, and building the AI-enhanced support that pairs the predictive insight with clean data with human empathy, so the recommendation feels personally relevant, not just medically correct. I think that\u0026#8217;s a huge role that we can play.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:35] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I mean that makes so much sense to us. When we were looking at this space, we saw that in many domains, AI can have a 95% accuracy for diagnostics. There was a randomized clinical trial looking at the effectiveness of an AI tool. 95% accuracy in a kind of synthetic setting, but when it was used by patients in a kind of patient-centered manner, like they were self-directing this diagnosis, it dropped to 35%. And what struck me was the point you made around end-to-end, because I think again the team involved hadn\u0026#8217;t considered, what is the pre-journey to me trying to have this moment, this experience, etc., how do I then take this forward and then integrate it with care that I\u0026#8217;m supposed to be receiving like the different channels that would go through and as you say, whether it\u0026#8217;s in the enterprise or if it\u0026#8217;s in in the kind of world with kind of people trying to receive care, this end-to-end thinking is critical to embed that precise tool, that capability into a moment that\u0026#8217;s going to actually deliver value for people.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:18:37] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e We’re going to take a short break. When we return, Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at Sanofi, and Ross Landles, VP and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog, discuss patient-centricity, the changing role of clinicians and why AI adoption is fundamentally a human experience story.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"id":86210,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","filesize":77251,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85084,"date":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","modified":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-300x287.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":287,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-768x735.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-1024x980.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":613,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","1536X1536Width":1268,"1536X1536Height":1214,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","2048X2048Width":1268,"2048X2048Height":1214}},"description":"For more on the co-evolution between humans and AI download our latest frog report ‘Futurescape: Artificial Realities.’  ","reportLink":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry#download","type":"internal"}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:25] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Now back to Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at Sanofi, and Ross Landles, Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:34] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Sylvia, Sanofi has chosen to make patient centricity a strategic commitment and a necessity for the business. How did you shape that commitment? How did you think about it? Why did you do that?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:45] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, because at Sanofi patients are truly at the heart of everything we do. It\u0026#8217;s not just a slogan. It\u0026#8217;s how research decisions get made. The company defines is precisely the patient-centric R\u0026amp;D means a commitment to listen and translate patients\u0026#8217; insights into actions that develop new healthcare solutions with meaningful outcomes addressing unmet needs and improving health-related quality of life. So, the distinction that we draw are subtle but very important. We don\u0026#8217;t work for patients; we work with them. Treating the patient community as equal partners rather than end users of a finished product, we believe human plus AI equals greater impact. That\u0026#8217;s the equation that we live by. Sanofi is, we\u0026#8217;re all in AI, but the commitment only means something if experience leads that adoption, not the other way around. So, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/patient-centricity-missing-forest-trees\"\u003epatient-centricity\u003c/a\u003e is the proof point. It\u0026#8217;s what keeps innovation honest.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:20:55] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e This commitment to patient-centricity is both a way of working with people to develop new solutions, but also a driver of the fundamental, like both patient outcomes, but also fundamental business outcomes. And it\u0026#8217;s like it\u0026#8217;s the two-sided equation that you guys get to focus on and are making impact around.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:13] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e We always start with understanding the patient. We discover, we design and we develop and deploy.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:57] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e What does patient-centricity actually look like in practice?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:22] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e In practice, it\u0026#8217;s more structural, right? Because it is operational. So, we built the patient community promise, a set of commitments developed with input from over 80 patients and caregiver organizations worldwide, endorsed by the executive committee itself. So, the company\u0026#8217;s own patent charter is explicit that this goes beyond the patient alone. It formalizes accountability to both patient and caregiver communities. This also includes informal caregiver. The family members and friends and so on, engaging them systematically at every stage of the medicine and vaccine lifecycle. That caregiver inclusion is baked into how we define the community it serves. Patient-centricity to us means intentionally listening to individuals living with disease, their caregivers and credible advocacy voices that translates what\u0026#8217;s heard into meaningful actions. Now here\u0026#8217;s where I\u0026#8217;ll add my own personal belief on top of what\u0026#8217;s shared. I\u0026#8217;ll say that the next part, this part, total transparency is my perspective, not company’s. The informal caregiver is the most under-designed-for person in the entire healthcare system. But they\u0026#8217;re the ones managing medication schedules, nutrition, diet, translating clinical language, at 2 am holding the emotional weight of the patient, that patients can\u0026#8217;t always carry alone and almost no experience strategy in the industry is built around them in a systematic way. It\u0026#8217;s not only about the patient; it\u0026#8217;s about the whole ecosystem—informal and formal caregivers, the healthcare providers, navigating fragmented systems, the hospitals, trying to coordinate care, tests, across the silos. The real patient-centricity, in my humble opinion, means designing for the entire web of people who make a patient\u0026#8217;s recovery possible together. That\u0026#8217;s my conviction, and I think it\u0026#8217;s the next frontier the industry hasn\u0026#8217;t fully claimed yet. But I really believe that there are more and more folks recognizing it and we\u0026#8217;re moving toward this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:57] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We\u0026#8217;ve been in this journey together and what\u0026#8217;s quite clear is it\u0026#8217;s not just a moment; it\u0026#8217;s an ongoing journey, it\u0026#8217;s a reinvention. Why do you see this as an ongoing journey, not like a one-off transformation?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:24:09] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Life science is, right now, is where the internet was in the mid \u0026#8217;90s, I dare say. So, we\u0026#8217;re at the beginning stage. .And everyone feels it\u0026#8217;s going to change everything, but almost nobody has seen the shape of that change yet, right? Because it\u0026#8217;s too early on, and we heard it even from the tech leaders who are at the forefront of the AI frontier. They\u0026#8217;re saying, \u0026#8220;Hey, life science is one area that they foresee is going to be tremendously change with the powerful computing, like supercomputing, as well as the, you know, scientific data coming together. We can really accelerate that.” Right? And calling this moment a more of a transformation implies before and after to me. To me that means there is a beginning and the end, and I don\u0026#8217;t believe that\u0026#8217;s what\u0026#8217;s happening. It\u0026#8217;s going to be a continuous journey because all the emerging tech will come. At the moment, as we know, AI has been around since I believe 1955, but natural language, LLM, all these really change the world. So, these are the tools that help us evolve faster than how we understand how people are going to use them. So, there\u0026#8217;s a little bit of a speedometer of differential there. So, every time when AI gets better at prediction, the personalization and automation at the touchpoint, the human-centered questions like “who\u0026#8217;s going to use it?” it needs to reset. So that balance, keeping that is little difficult, but we haven\u0026#8217;t figured it out yet. So, we have to ask some of these questions, right? Does this still feel like care, or does it start to feel like process? Does it still build trust, or does it quietly erode things? I mean, these questions don\u0026#8217;t get answered once, they get asked again every time when technology evolves. So that\u0026#8217;s why I think you know it\u0026#8217;s a journey, not a project. Even with AI in healthcare, we can accelerate. For example, I do not believe that clinical trial periods can be accelerated because that\u0026#8217;s human factors. When you try some new medicine, it takes time for actual physical human bodies to process it and that\u0026#8217;s how we\u0026#8217;re going to learn and it\u0026#8217;s the same thing from psychological as well, right? So, the human interaction, you can\u0026#8217;t rush that. That\u0026#8217;s another point why I think this is a continuous, ongoing journey and this, I think we need to figure out the timing of it, so that we don\u0026#8217;t all get excited about shiny new technology. “Oh my god, we can do this and we can do that.” That\u0026#8217;s wonderful. But in order to make a real impact, we need to take the proper time, especially with the people who are going to actually use it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:14] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We researched some of the frontier behaviors that people are having around new AI tools and one of the things that emerged is actually this kind of split cohort, which I guess we\u0026#8217;ve seen in most technology rollouts. We see this kind of advanced user group who feels somewhere between 30% to 50% more confident, comfortable acting alone given AI advice, they feel more optimism based on the AI consultation, they feel higher trust in its outcomes and then you have another cohort who is much less comfortable using these tools is much less frequently using them in their regular life and obviously those metrics are significantly different. I think one of the things that teams like ours are going to have to do is really think through, okay, there is very naturally going to be a new digital AI divide as we try and roll out these tools and support people in increasingly sophisticated ways using AI. So, how do we design for both the people at the front, at the leading edge, and also the tailing edge and make sure that we don\u0026#8217;t have another kind of cohort of people who have a care gap, who have don\u0026#8217;t have the same access to the right care because of these possibilities.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:28:29] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely. It\u0026#8217;s always about the people. And new technology, these new tools are here to help people\u0026#8217;s experience and improve quality of life, right? The moment we start designing for technology first and the person second, we lost the plot. That\u0026#8217;s the thread that has to hold, no matter what comes next. It\u0026#8217;s about the people.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:28:55] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We recently spoke together at South by Southwest London. We looked at how patient behaviors are evolving in the age of AI and we did some research on that to complement, I think, some of the great attitudinal work that was out there. So, what we saw, there are many, many good research or kind of demographic population level firms thinking about how people\u0026#8217;s attitudes to AI in healthcare, but we didn\u0026#8217;t see so many people really focusing on new behaviors and so we wanted to focus on that as a company, we felt that we had something that we could bring to that. We ran a study with 1,000 participants in the US, 250 people in the UK and we focused it on AI users. So, we knew we were deliberately going for people who were already starting to use AI tools and the reason for that is we wanted to look what was happening at the frontier and to use some of that understanding to be able to bring back into our work together as leaders in AI and healthcare and also to be able to talk and evangelize within the industry. We looked at three lenses: trust, agency and pathways. So, let\u0026#8217;s start to explore some of those: trust. So, we think about this AI movement. Sylvia, is healthcare entering an era where trust is earned for experience rather than simply expertise alone?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:30:15] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e AI adoption is fundamentally a human experience story, not a technology story, in my opinion, because experts used to be enough on its own, like a clinician\u0026#8217;s credential, a brand\u0026#8217;s pedigree and whatnot. But because patients have no other way to evaluate quality previously, but now patients are comparing every healthcare interaction to the best consumer-grade digital experience that they use daily. If the experience feels clumsy, fragmented, or cold, expertise alone doesn\u0026#8217;t save it. They have options. They\u0026#8217;re going to get up and go. So, the trust gets built moment-by-moment through how the experience actually feels to navigate, giving the promise and showing up every single time. So that means experience design is not anymore, a nice-to-have. It\u0026#8217;s becoming one of the clearest ways healthcare brands differentiate themselves from each other.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:31:26] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e We\u0026#8217;re entering an age where, for heavy AI users, what we saw in our research was that the doctor still remains the most trusted source overall. Eighty-five percent of people stated their behaviors would be shaped by their trust in their doctor. But for people who are kind of pro-users of AI, the advice they\u0026#8217;re getting from the LLMs, from their chatbots, rises to the second-most trusted source, right above public health messaging, above friends and family, even. And so, the question I think for experienced designers is how do we leverage that into the best advice possible, the end-to-end way to manage people through the care pathway which they may be choosing for themselves and \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/healthcare-needs-better-cx-design\"\u003ehow do we start to think about the experiences we provide people downstream of this trust\u003c/a\u003e that they have in these new tools and the advice they\u0026#8217;re getting, bringing together different perspectives, their own medical information, best practice, etc.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:32:23] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Perhaps it\u0026#8217;s also because many of the AI tools, if they\u0026#8217;re good ones, will share the data source. Patients can easily see where the sources are coming from and they can double click and go into it and dig deeper if they choose to and I think that transparency is really making the big difference, right? Before the internet, everybody had to go to the library and had to read everything and people don\u0026#8217;t have time. So of course, they\u0026#8217;re going to trust also the healthcare providers because they are the experts. But now, patients have that ability in seconds to be able to access the data from the trusted sources, and I think that\u0026#8217;s making a big difference.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:09] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, absolutely and still we have work to do together. Not just in the industry, but beyond trying to help people to understand. Okay, the explainability of my advice, one of the things that we saw in our research was around 50% of people had little or no understanding of where the health information within an AI tool had come from or how to kind of verify it, or how to think about it, how precise it might be, given what they\u0026#8217;d prompted into it. And certainly, trying to think about those experiences and how to involve other sources, healthcare professionals and to make it more of an inclusive experience is going to be important, in our opinion, given what we\u0026#8217;re seeing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:05] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, very true.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:51] Ross Landles\u003c/strong\u003e: Agency was super interesting for us when we did the research. Actually, one of the things that we were really surprised by was this kind of notion of reverse hypochondria. So, when people were using AI tools, they actually felt more confident, more confident to act. Whether that meant following the advice or just working with their healthcare professional, they just had more confidence. They felt less anxious about their disease and so it was an interesting area for us to explore. Sylvia, when you think about it, when patients arrive with AI-generated insights, how do you think about the care system? For example, the role of healthcare professionals. How do you think this is going to evolve?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:34:28] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Clinicians increasingly are becoming interpreters and validators rather than sole gatekeepers of information. It\u0026#8217;s not a threat to their role. They are the experts. We need them. And it\u0026#8217;s actually a more human one. AI can support both the patient and the provider simultaneously. But strong design is what determines whether the dynamic strengthens the provider relationship or undermines it, right? So, when it\u0026#8217;s done well, the patient walks in more informed, the conversation goes deeper, faster, and the clinician, healthcare provider, spends less time on basic education and more time on the judgment call only they make. Recently, I went to go see a physician and it was very interesting because you know, of course, I use an AI tool to inform myself about my how I\u0026#8217;m feeling, oh my god, what do I have, am I dying, or you know, do I just have a bug, what do I have. And my doctor actually he turned around and shared his monitor and goes, “Sylvia, you see this? I\u0026#8217;m trying to look up what you\u0026#8217;re experiencing” and he was able to go deeper to the point where he said, “Hey, I\u0026#8217;m going to send you to the specialist.” So, it was a very different experience from both ends versus when I, you know, before this whole AI and data sharing, where it would have been like, “oh, I don\u0026#8217;t feel good, doctor,” and the doctor was just telling me it\u0026#8217;s just one direction, right? So, that\u0026#8217;s how it was just kind of changing. I believe you know it\u0026#8217;s going to help patients own more and get more informed and healthcare providers can really focus on where it makes more sense, more impactful, rather than basic education.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:36:27] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e I think what\u0026#8217;s interesting is we saw patients have embraced certainly this role, like as like help me find out about my health. Like help me understand this thing, help me go into the doctor with more understanding and a set of questions, a way that I\u0026#8217;m thinking about the healthcare system, etc. And then on the flip side, doctors are often using these tools. We know there are specific platforms they\u0026#8217;re using, and then of course they\u0026#8217;re also making use of all the same tools that patients are. What\u0026#8217;s interesting is both sides are very reluctant at the moment to embrace the kind of interconnect of those spaces. But I do think it\u0026#8217;s going to be something that we need to think through as people designing for that system, for that space. Because at the moment, you know, we\u0026#8217;re missing lots of opportunities because of our own natural human tendency not to want to, say, question the role of the healthcare professional. We also know that many healthcare professionals are also looking for clarity around what it means from a regulatory perspective, and of course, that\u0026#8217;s something I think we\u0026#8217;re going to see evolve over the next few years.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:37:26] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e AI can genuinely help patients ask better questions and better-informed patients tend to have more productive consultations with healthcare providers. But the agency without the guardrails becomes overconfidence and overconfidence in medical context can be dangerous. So, the design has to hold both things at once, building confidence, but the design in the friction points that redirects a patient back to the clinician healthcare provider at the right moments. I think that\u0026#8217;s the key. That balance between the confidence and safety is one of the harder design problems in this space and it\u0026#8217;s not a one-time fix, as we\u0026#8217;ve been talking about before, is a journey, right? So, it has to be built into the experience journey continuously into the moment that matters.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:23] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e When we did the research, we saw that among sort of pro users, 30% of those users had avoided going to see a doctor because AI had resolved their concern and I think trying to put some parameters around that and helping people to understand that in totality is going to be is something that we need to focus on in the next evolution of this set of tools, because again, those are those are those are big decisions and avoiding, again would not be the advice of an OpenAI or a kind of Anthropic or any of these tools that people are getting their advice from. So, something to think through and to try and help people get right.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe other dimension we looked at was pathways and here we see patients reshaping their care pathway and creating their own almost bespoke care pathway, if you like, creating their flow through the healthcare system. How do you think about that? And I guess within that, what do you think becomes the North Star for creating coherent experience as these pathways become distributed and if you like, atomized by patients and by the AI tools.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:39:28] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Relatively speaking, the North Star is simple to say and hard to execute, as we know. So, patient experience has to feel like one journey, not a handoff between multiple organizations, from doctors to doctors and to hospitals to the testing places to insurance to pharma, pharmacy that don\u0026#8217;t talk to each other. Then it feels disjointed, fragmented. So, connected ecosystems are both technology challenge and an experience challenge. You can have the perfect data interoperability and still deliver a confusing experience if nobody designed for continuity, because it\u0026#8217;s broken, right? The consistency and continuity become the metric that matters, not a single touchpoint in isolation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:40:27] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the other kind of dimension to this for me is also then how do we think about data and data permissions. At the moment, we can have a very blunt way of thinking about data permissions, but we can imagine as we go through these more complex distributed care pathways that I\u0026#8217;m providing lots of data as I go and some of that I\u0026#8217;m confident to pass to, say, my healthcare professional, some of it I\u0026#8217;m confident to pass to my LLM, some of that I\u0026#8217;m confident to pass to my caregiver, some of it I may even be confident enough to pass to insurers where I need to get kind of insight and prior auth and starting to think about data more of a living object, much more atomized and actually giving really nuanced permission across my data is going to be vital to getting to that end-to-end flow that you say. So, it feels like one experience. We know there are multiple actors. We know that many people need to solve the care paradigm and I\u0026#8217;m able to be really conscious about my data because, again, what we saw is that people don\u0026#8217;t necessarily want their data going to say their employer or their insurer for obvious reasons, right? They think they\u0026#8217;re going to get discriminated against, but they could see it going that way as in a controlled fashion, and as it\u0026#8217;s going to create more of an outcome for them. So, I think moving beyond binary data is going to be really important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:41:42] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I totally agree because if you take a look at other industries such as banking. It\u0026#8217;s your money. You have full visibility and access to every touchpoint, whatever your investment, banking or how you get paid and so on, right? But we\u0026#8217;re not there yet with healthcare yet. So, you know, when we get there, I think that\u0026#8217;s going to be, opening up for the next generation of healthcare experience. It\u0026#8217;s hard to do. It’s very hard to do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:42:14] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe we can talk about that now. We\u0026#8217;ve been talking through this conversation about what we\u0026#8217;re seeing in the near future, right? Like AI as it is today, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/behavioral-science-health-wellness-product-design\"\u003eAI is shaping patient behavior today\u003c/a\u003e and also the importance and centrality of patient experience. But let\u0026#8217;s look a little bit ahead. When you look through the vantage point that you have in your position at Sanofi, what do you see as the most significant shift that you\u0026#8217;re tracking in the relationship between patients, technology, AI, healthcare systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:42:48] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think AI has become something closer to an always-on health companion, less of a tool, right? So, you open when something is wrong more of a continuous presence that shifts care from reactive to proactive and predictive. We can think about it from wearables that people wear to track their sleep, heart rate and all those. That shift only earns trust—which is super important—if three things hold together at once. First is a scientific rigor; second is ethical AI; and third is the genuinely great experience design. And if we miss any of these three, the whole thing will probably collapse, disjointed and fragmented. No matter how sophisticated the technology gets.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:43:45] Ross Landles:\u003c/strong\u003e When we researched this, the idea of having an always-on AI patient companion that was guiding you, keeping and storing your data, supporting every decision, your companion across the care pathway. That future concept was extremely well received by people. What\u0026#8217;s interesting is if we look five years ahead, we\u0026#8217;ve always wondered, is there going to be a platform in play in digital health? And different teams have tried, teams from payers, teams from providers, and just because of the fragmentation of the overall system, they’ve not succeeded technology companies haven\u0026#8217;t succeeded because it\u0026#8217;s frankly too hard for them, right? They just don\u0026#8217;t have the visibility of all the therapy areas, the conditions, how to manage patients through those. They\u0026#8217;re just not well positioned to do that. Increasingly these tools look like they will be that platform and they will be that companion. And I think for us, it\u0026#8217;s going to be about them providing much more the detailed evidence or the kind of the pathway that can support patients through the journey of managing their care using these tools.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:44:51] Sylvia Park-Ekecs:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, interoperability is going to change and revolutionize.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:44:57] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and more from our conversation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our guests, Sylvia Park-Ekecs, Global Head of Digital Consumer Experience at Sanofi, and Ross Landles, Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eand Spotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"slug":"ross-landles","authorName":"Ross Landles","bio":"\u003cp\u003eRoss Landles is Vice President and Global Head of Business Reinvention at frog, the Reinvention and Experience partner. He leads a 250-strong global strategy team that fuses creativity and strategic thinking—treating strategy as a creative act. The founder of frog’s London studio and a member of the global leadership team, Ross has driven the creation of new ventures, delivered enterprise-scale value, and cultivated cultures of innovation within some of the world’s most ambitious organizations. His work lives at the intersection of emerging technology and human experience, including pioneering applications of AI to reshape how businesses think, act and grow.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Vice President, Global Head of Business Reinvention, frog","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":88641,"title":"Ross-Landles-author2","filename":"Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","filesize":83534,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/sylvia-park-ekecs/attachment/ross-landles-author2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"ross-landles-author2","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":88443,"date":"2026-10-07 16:09:33","modified":"2026-10-07 16:09:33","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":979,"height":1024,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2-287x300.jpg","mediumWidth":287,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2-768x803.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":669,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":669,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","1536X1536Width":979,"1536X1536Height":1024,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Ross-Landles-author2.jpg","2048X2048Width":979,"2048X2048Height":1024}}},{"slug":"elizabeth-wood","authorName":"Elizabeth Wood","bio":"\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eElizabeth tells design stories for frog. She first joined the New York studio in 2011, working on multidisciplinary teams to design award-winning products and services. Today, Elizabeth works out of the London studio on the global frog marketing team, leading editorial content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eShe has written and edited hundreds of articles about design and technology, and has given talks on the role of content in a weird, digital world. Her work has been published in \u003ci\u003eThe Content Strategist\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eUNDO-Ordinary\u003c/i\u003e magazine and the book \u003ci\u003eAlone Together: Tales of Sisterhood and Solitude in Latin America\u003c/i\u003e (Bogotá International Press).\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003ePreviously, Elizabeth was Communications Manager for UN OCHA’s Centre for Humanitarian Data in The Hague. She is a graduate of the Master’s Programme for Creative Writing at Birkbeck College, University of London.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Host, Design Mind frogcast \u0026 Editorial Director, frog Global Marketing","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":21629,"title":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2","filename":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","filesize":61336,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/12203718/Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/elizabeth-wood/attachment/elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2/","alt":"","author":"22","description":"","caption":"","name":"elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":16815,"date":"2021-03-12 20:37:18","modified":"2021-03-12 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– Co-evolving with Physical AI","image":{"id":87358,"title":"Ep60_Co-evolving_with_Physical_AI_John_Robins_Header_share_image","filename":"Ep60_Co-evolving_with_Physical_AI_John_Robins_Header_share_image.jpg","filesize":172622,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/Ep60_Co-evolving_with_Physical_AI_John_Robins_Header_share_image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-60-co-evolving-with-physical-ai/attachment/ep60_co-evolving_with_physical_ai_john_robins_header_share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"ep60_co-evolving_with_physical_ai_john_robins_header_share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87031,"date":"2026-06-02 18:58:59","modified":"2026-06-02 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– The New Lines of Luxury","image":{"id":87912,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img.png","filesize":675171,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img/","alt":"","author":"28","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87867,"date":"2026-07-23 12:24:07","modified":"2026-07-23 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21:41:00","modified":"2026-09-07 21:41:00","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":58,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","large-width":640,"large-height":245,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":552,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":552}},"video_file":false,"title":"Six Principles for Getting Agentic Commerce Right","description":"How do brands choose what to prioritize when taking the first steps in their agentic commerce journey?","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eAgentic commerce—the idea of AI agents acting on a customer’s behalf to discover, evaluate and purchase products and services—is still emerging, but the conditions that make it necessary are already here.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI agents have moved beyond just answering questions to now taking action. Payment infrastructure is starting to catch up. In such an environment, learning to shape your agentic commerce experiences responsibly, with your customers in mind, is crucial.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe previous article of our agentic commerce series argued that \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment\"\u003econversational commerce is how most brands will take their first real step into agentic commerce\u003c/a\u003e. But consumers aren\u0026#8217;t yet ready to hand over full transaction autonomy to an agent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eClosing this gap is a design problem. How will your brand choose agentic experiences that earn trust?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere we will illustrate six principles for designing agentic commerce experiences. Using real-world examples, we will show you how these principles can help you navigate customer expectations to answer questions like: What elements of the shopping experience do people want to continue to control themselves? What shopping tasks are they willing to delegate to an agent?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhy principles, why now\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eCustomers now encounter brands across an expanding range of digital touchpoints, from search engines and marketplaces to AI assistants and autonomous agents. As these journeys become more fragmented, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/why-being-found-no-longer-wins\"\u003ebrands can no longer shape every interaction directly\u003c/a\u003e. Increasingly, AI agents are researching, comparing and making decisions on customers\u0026#8217; behalf.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn such agentic commerce experiences, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003eclear principles are essential\u003c/a\u003e. They help provide guardrails that ensure every product, service and interaction reflects the brand\u0026#8217;s intent, even when the brand is not directly involved in the decision-making process. Internally, they give teams a shared yardstick: what to build, what to reject and what memorable means for an experience no one on your side will directly touch.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe six principles below are a starting point, meant to be adapted to your goals, your values and what you know about your customers, market and competitors. We\u0026#8217;ll start with the one the other five depend on.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 1: Trust as the universal currency\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAs commerce moves from screens we operate to systems that act for us, trust needs to intrinsically become part of the product. Customers are delegating judgment, and brands need to earn that delegation by making the experience feel safe through tangible measures such as permissions, limits, reversibility and proof. These measures deserve the same design care we give to flows and content. As our last Futurescape report puts it, trust is a universal currency. Confidence grows when a system behaves predictably, explains itself at the moments that matter and makes it easy to hand over more control or take it back. Consider \u003ca href=\"https://www.agenticcommerce.dev/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eStripe\u0026#8217;s Agentic Commerce Protocol\u003c/a\u003e. It issues Shared Payment Tokens as credentials that carry a spend limit, merchant restrictions and an expiry and can be revoked in real time. The permission is visible and reversible by design: a genuine control surface the customer can see and act on.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 2: Readiness as the new relevance\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAgentic commerce offers a way out of the personalization arms race. Instead of following people around the internet hoping to catch them in a buying mood, brands can prepare to be useful the moment they\u0026#8217;re called upon—by a customer or by that customer\u0026#8217;s agent. In conversational commerce, this readiness is the new relevance: being reliably useful when it counts, wherever the customer happens to meet you. Your product knowledge is structured, your proof is machine-readable and your value is legible to a system that will never see your carefully art-directed homepage. This is already concrete. In January 2026, \u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/products/ads-commerce/agentic-commerce-ai-tools-protocol-retailers-platforms/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eGoogle\u0026#8217;s Universal Commerce Protocol went live\u003c/a\u003e with Shopify, Target, Etsy, Wayfair and Walmart among its launch partners; OpenAI\u0026#8217;s Agentic Commerce Protocol feeds structured catalogs into ChatGPT; Perplexity runs its own merchant program. The through-line is unforgiving: agents can only recommend what they can parse. When a brand\u0026#8217;s product data is incomplete or unstructured, its products vanish from the set the agent considers. Readiness is the price of being considered at all when and where the customer needs it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 3: Agency is felt, not performed\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nModels are getting better at reading the person in front of them: shifting the options they surface, adjusting tone, knowing when to be direct and when to hold back. They are not there yet, and the brands that get there first will offer something that feels genuinely tailored. The test of a good conversational commerce experience is simple. Does it leave the person feeling more capable or does it leave them feeling managed? The point is for agency to be genuinely felt. In practice that means designing a spectrum of participation—assistive, delegated, fully autonomous—and letting customers move along moment to moment, deciding for themselves how hands-on to be. Some moments should stay manual on purpose, because the human part is the whole point. \u003ca href=\"https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/announcing-agents-to-payments-ap2-protocol\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eGoogle\u0026#8217;s Agent Payments Protocol\u003c/a\u003e shows what this can look like under the hood. It splits a purchase into two separate grants: an Intent Mandate that lets an agent search and negotiate, and a Cart Mandate that authorizes the actual buy. A customer can hand over the first and hold on to the second—or, once trust is established, switch on a \u0026#8220;human not present\u0026#8221; mode and let the agent close on its own. Same system, different postures, chosen by the person rather than the conversational commerce platform.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 4: Show, don\u0026#8217;t tell—multimodal by default\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAgentic commerce collapses the old line between physical and digital, which means brands have to work in more than one mode at once. A conversation on its own is a thin storefront. Many conversational commerce experiences on the market today feel like a chatbot bolted onto a storefront, and customers can tell. The strongest agentic commerce experiences weave language together with images, motion, sounds and other elements the customer can actually manipulate. Dialogue conducts the interface (or the \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/future-sounds-ai-agents-and-voice\"\u003einterface-free experience\u003c/a\u003e), cueing the right comparison, the right photo, the right video, states that shift as intent sharpens. This is where generative, dynamic design systems earn their keep: they let an experience recompose itself in real time while keeping a brand\u0026#8217;s expression intact. Reading builds some confidence. Seeing and hearing builds more.On Sephora.com, if a customer searches for an everyday foundation, the answer isn\u0026#8217;t a paragraph to parse. A shade gets matched against the customer\u0026#8217;s own skin tone, a short clip shows how it sets through the day, and it sits side by side with what they were already comparing. When asked \u0026#8220;does it work under sunscreen,\u0026#8221; the panel updates rather than the chat restarting.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 5: Optimize for long-term human outcomes\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAn agentic commerce system negotiates, recommends and buys on someone\u0026#8217;s behalf week after week. As such, conversion becomes a poor barometer of success because it gets measured only over the next five minutes after the performed action. By using conversion as a scoreboard, you end up inheriting the responsibility for whatever happens downstream: a customer\u0026#8217;s budget, their mental load, their confidence, the environmental cost of what you help them buy. Handled badly, an agent becomes one more source of decision fatigue. Handled well, it works against a life goal, respects a stated preference for durability or lower carbon, and might even recommend the smaller purchase, or none at all. The bar is whether people buy better and feel more in control over time. There\u0026#8217;s a harder question underneath, and it\u0026#8217;s worth saying out loud: Who does the agent actually work for—the customer, the merchant, or the conversational commerce platform? Once agents hold the checkout button, small choices about defaults and rankings compound into large effects on what people spend and save. \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-58-when-human-connection-meets-ai\"\u003eOptimizing for long-term human outcomes\u003c/a\u003e is how a brand answers that question in the customer\u0026#8217;s favor before anyone has to ask.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 6: Progress through principled experimentation\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nNo brand arrives at agentic commerce in one move. The path is iterative: set a clear north star, agree on your principles, then run tight experiments against them. Prototype a single interaction. Test one degree of autonomy. Try a multimodal pattern and watch what actually lands. Then let the evidence decide what comes next. This keeps progress moving without a redesign of everything at once—the principles become the filter for what you test, what you shelve, and what you refuse outright. Amazon.com’s \u0026#8220;Buy for Me\u0026#8221; is a study in restraint. Rather than switching on full autonomy, Amazon shipped a deliberately narrow version: a clearly labeled button, a limited set of partner brands, the customer\u0026#8217;s explicit approval on every order, and no visibility into their other purchases. It\u0026#8217;s an experiment with the guardrails built in from the start—exactly the shape early agentic commerce bets should take.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThese six principles won\u0026#8217;t land the same way for any two brands, and they\u0026#8217;re not meant to. Use them as a lens for your own decisions. What matters most is starting. Pick the principle your organization is furthest from living up to, run one focused experiment against it and let what you learn point to the next. How fast any of this arrives will vary—by how comfortable customers are, how mature the category is, how ready each brand is.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":36590,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2021-10-11 18:51:43","post_date_gmt":"2021-10-11 18:51:43","post_content":"","post_title":"Jess Leitch","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"jessica-leitch","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-08-12 18:43:35","post_modified_gmt":"2026-08-12 18:43:35","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=36590","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Jess Leitch","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of frog North America, Jess is responsible for leading the frog business in North America. With a background in Service Design, Jess has spent the past 15 years leading teams in the design and launch of new products, services and businesses. Prior to frog, Jess was the Head of Service Design and Head of Studio at idean. Originally from Sydney, Australia, she lived in London for a number of years before moving to the US in 2019. In London, she received her Masters in Service Design.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Managing Director, frog North America","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":36591,"id":36591,"title":"jessica-leitch","filename":"jessica-leitch.png","filesize":61348,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/attachment/jessica-leitch/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jessica-leitch","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":36590,"date":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","modified":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":500,"height":500,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-300x300.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","medium_large-width":500,"medium_large-height":500,"large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","large-width":500,"large-height":500,"1536x1536":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","1536x1536-width":500,"1536x1536-height":500,"2048x2048":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","2048x2048-width":500,"2048x2048-height":500}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/"},{"ID":47843,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2022-10-13 15:45:26","post_date_gmt":"2022-10-13 15:45:26","post_content":"","post_title":"Clément Lacroix","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"clement-lacroix","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-08-12 18:44:14","post_modified_gmt":"2026-08-12 18:44:14","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=47843","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Clément Lacroix ","bio":"\u003cp\u003eClément is a Vice President at frog, part of Capgemini Invent, and is based in New York. He serves as the global lead for frog’s Experience Everywhere offer, an approach designed to craft, deliver, and transform iconic experiences for iconic brands. Clement has worked across various industries, including retail, hospitality, financial services, and automotive, and has managed teams of customer experience specialists, designers, and technologists creating lasting impact for multiple brands. He was previously based in France, where he notably led the launch of a mobile bank.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Vice President, Customer Experience, Digital Strategy and Transformation, frog","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":83062,"id":83062,"title":"Clement_Lacroix-author","filename":"Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","filesize":50250,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/clement-lacroix/attachment/clement_lacroix-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"clement_lacroix-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":47843,"date":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","modified":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":800,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-768x768.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":640,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","1536x1536-width":800,"1536x1536-height":800,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","2048x2048-width":800,"2048x2048-height":800}}},"author_featured":[{"ID":47760,"post_author":"36","post_date":"2022-11-02 17:32:00","post_date_gmt":"2022-11-02 17:32:00","post_content":"","post_title":"Transforming Your B2B Experience with ABM","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"transforming-your-b2b-experience-with-abm","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2024-01-10 22:59:48","post_modified_gmt":"2024-01-10 22:59:48","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=designmind\u0026#038;p=47760","menu_order":0,"post_type":"designmind","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw"}]},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/clement-lacroix/"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true}],"if_related":{"image":{"ID":88353,"id":88353,"title":"six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image","filename":"six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image.png","filesize":285621,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right/attachment/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":88335,"date":"2026-09-07 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Principles for Getting Agentic Commerce Right"},"featured_articles":{"eyebrow":"Related work","use_home_data":false,"articles":[{"title":"Agentic Commerce Is Still Waiting For Its ChatGPT Moment","description":"Article","image":{"ID":87735,"id":87735,"title":"agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image","filename":"agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","filesize":226657,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment/attachment/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87240,"date":"2026-07-07 18:49:03","modified":"2026-07-07 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Frontline Retail Workers with AI","description":"Article","image":{"ID":83441,"id":83441,"title":"TheOmni-Employee-Era-Cover2","filename":"TheOmni-Employee-Era-Cover2.gif","filesize":9125772,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/TheOmni-Employee-Era-Cover2.gif","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/empowering-frontline-retail-workers-with-ai/attachment/theomni-employee-era-cover2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"theomni-employee-era-cover2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":82799,"date":"2025-08-08 17:38:17","modified":"2025-08-08 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21:41:00","modified":"2026-09-07 21:41:00","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":58,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":245,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":552,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-header.gif","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":552}},"videoFile":false,"title":"Six Principles for Getting Agentic Commerce Right","description":"How do brands choose what to prioritize when taking the first steps in their agentic commerce journey?","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eAgentic commerce—the idea of AI agents acting on a customer’s behalf to discover, evaluate and purchase products and services—is still emerging, but the conditions that make it necessary are already here.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI agents have moved beyond just answering questions to now taking action. Payment infrastructure is starting to catch up. In such an environment, learning to shape your agentic commerce experiences responsibly, with your customers in mind, is crucial.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe previous article of our agentic commerce series argued that \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment\"\u003econversational commerce is how most brands will take their first real step into agentic commerce\u003c/a\u003e. But consumers aren\u0026#8217;t yet ready to hand over full transaction autonomy to an agent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eClosing this gap is a design problem. How will your brand choose agentic experiences that earn trust?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere we will illustrate six principles for designing agentic commerce experiences. Using real-world examples, we will show you how these principles can help you navigate customer expectations to answer questions like: What elements of the shopping experience do people want to continue to control themselves? What shopping tasks are they willing to delegate to an agent?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhy principles, why now\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eCustomers now encounter brands across an expanding range of digital touchpoints, from search engines and marketplaces to AI assistants and autonomous agents. As these journeys become more fragmented, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/why-being-found-no-longer-wins\"\u003ebrands can no longer shape every interaction directly\u003c/a\u003e. Increasingly, AI agents are researching, comparing and making decisions on customers\u0026#8217; behalf.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn such agentic commerce experiences, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003eclear principles are essential\u003c/a\u003e. They help provide guardrails that ensure every product, service and interaction reflects the brand\u0026#8217;s intent, even when the brand is not directly involved in the decision-making process. Internally, they give teams a shared yardstick: what to build, what to reject and what memorable means for an experience no one on your side will directly touch.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe six principles below are a starting point, meant to be adapted to your goals, your values and what you know about your customers, market and competitors. We\u0026#8217;ll start with the one the other five depend on.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 1: Trust as the universal currency\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAs commerce moves from screens we operate to systems that act for us, trust needs to intrinsically become part of the product. Customers are delegating judgment, and brands need to earn that delegation by making the experience feel safe through tangible measures such as permissions, limits, reversibility and proof. These measures deserve the same design care we give to flows and content. As our last Futurescape report puts it, trust is a universal currency. Confidence grows when a system behaves predictably, explains itself at the moments that matter and makes it easy to hand over more control or take it back. Consider \u003ca href=\"https://www.agenticcommerce.dev/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eStripe\u0026#8217;s Agentic Commerce Protocol\u003c/a\u003e. It issues Shared Payment Tokens as credentials that carry a spend limit, merchant restrictions and an expiry and can be revoked in real time. The permission is visible and reversible by design: a genuine control surface the customer can see and act on.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 2: Readiness as the new relevance\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAgentic commerce offers a way out of the personalization arms race. Instead of following people around the internet hoping to catch them in a buying mood, brands can prepare to be useful the moment they\u0026#8217;re called upon—by a customer or by that customer\u0026#8217;s agent. In conversational commerce, this readiness is the new relevance: being reliably useful when it counts, wherever the customer happens to meet you. Your product knowledge is structured, your proof is machine-readable and your value is legible to a system that will never see your carefully art-directed homepage. This is already concrete. In January 2026, \u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/products/ads-commerce/agentic-commerce-ai-tools-protocol-retailers-platforms/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eGoogle\u0026#8217;s Universal Commerce Protocol went live\u003c/a\u003e with Shopify, Target, Etsy, Wayfair and Walmart among its launch partners; OpenAI\u0026#8217;s Agentic Commerce Protocol feeds structured catalogs into ChatGPT; Perplexity runs its own merchant program. The through-line is unforgiving: agents can only recommend what they can parse. When a brand\u0026#8217;s product data is incomplete or unstructured, its products vanish from the set the agent considers. Readiness is the price of being considered at all when and where the customer needs it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 3: Agency is felt, not performed\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nModels are getting better at reading the person in front of them: shifting the options they surface, adjusting tone, knowing when to be direct and when to hold back. They are not there yet, and the brands that get there first will offer something that feels genuinely tailored. The test of a good conversational commerce experience is simple. Does it leave the person feeling more capable or does it leave them feeling managed? The point is for agency to be genuinely felt. In practice that means designing a spectrum of participation—assistive, delegated, fully autonomous—and letting customers move along moment to moment, deciding for themselves how hands-on to be. Some moments should stay manual on purpose, because the human part is the whole point. \u003ca href=\"https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/announcing-agents-to-payments-ap2-protocol\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eGoogle\u0026#8217;s Agent Payments Protocol\u003c/a\u003e shows what this can look like under the hood. It splits a purchase into two separate grants: an Intent Mandate that lets an agent search and negotiate, and a Cart Mandate that authorizes the actual buy. A customer can hand over the first and hold on to the second—or, once trust is established, switch on a \u0026#8220;human not present\u0026#8221; mode and let the agent close on its own. Same system, different postures, chosen by the person rather than the conversational commerce platform.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 4: Show, don\u0026#8217;t tell—multimodal by default\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAgentic commerce collapses the old line between physical and digital, which means brands have to work in more than one mode at once. A conversation on its own is a thin storefront. Many conversational commerce experiences on the market today feel like a chatbot bolted onto a storefront, and customers can tell. The strongest agentic commerce experiences weave language together with images, motion, sounds and other elements the customer can actually manipulate. Dialogue conducts the interface (or the \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/future-sounds-ai-agents-and-voice\"\u003einterface-free experience\u003c/a\u003e), cueing the right comparison, the right photo, the right video, states that shift as intent sharpens. This is where generative, dynamic design systems earn their keep: they let an experience recompose itself in real time while keeping a brand\u0026#8217;s expression intact. Reading builds some confidence. Seeing and hearing builds more.On Sephora.com, if a customer searches for an everyday foundation, the answer isn\u0026#8217;t a paragraph to parse. A shade gets matched against the customer\u0026#8217;s own skin tone, a short clip shows how it sets through the day, and it sits side by side with what they were already comparing. When asked \u0026#8220;does it work under sunscreen,\u0026#8221; the panel updates rather than the chat restarting.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 5: Optimize for long-term human outcomes\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAn agentic commerce system negotiates, recommends and buys on someone\u0026#8217;s behalf week after week. As such, conversion becomes a poor barometer of success because it gets measured only over the next five minutes after the performed action. By using conversion as a scoreboard, you end up inheriting the responsibility for whatever happens downstream: a customer\u0026#8217;s budget, their mental load, their confidence, the environmental cost of what you help them buy. Handled badly, an agent becomes one more source of decision fatigue. Handled well, it works against a life goal, respects a stated preference for durability or lower carbon, and might even recommend the smaller purchase, or none at all. The bar is whether people buy better and feel more in control over time. There\u0026#8217;s a harder question underneath, and it\u0026#8217;s worth saying out loud: Who does the agent actually work for—the customer, the merchant, or the conversational commerce platform? Once agents hold the checkout button, small choices about defaults and rankings compound into large effects on what people spend and save. \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-58-when-human-connection-meets-ai\"\u003eOptimizing for long-term human outcomes\u003c/a\u003e is how a brand answers that question in the customer\u0026#8217;s favor before anyone has to ask.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePrinciple 6: Progress through principled experimentation\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nNo brand arrives at agentic commerce in one move. The path is iterative: set a clear north star, agree on your principles, then run tight experiments against them. Prototype a single interaction. Test one degree of autonomy. Try a multimodal pattern and watch what actually lands. Then let the evidence decide what comes next. This keeps progress moving without a redesign of everything at once—the principles become the filter for what you test, what you shelve, and what you refuse outright. Amazon.com’s \u0026#8220;Buy for Me\u0026#8221; is a study in restraint. Rather than switching on full autonomy, Amazon shipped a deliberately narrow version: a clearly labeled button, a limited set of partner brands, the customer\u0026#8217;s explicit approval on every order, and no visibility into their other purchases. It\u0026#8217;s an experiment with the guardrails built in from the start—exactly the shape early agentic commerce bets should take.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThese six principles won\u0026#8217;t land the same way for any two brands, and they\u0026#8217;re not meant to. Use them as a lens for your own decisions. What matters most is starting. Pick the principle your organization is furthest from living up to, run one focused experiment against it and let what you learn point to the next. How fast any of this arrives will vary—by how comfortable customers are, how mature the category is, how ready each brand is.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"jessica-leitch","authorName":"Jess Leitch","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of frog North America, Jess is responsible for leading the frog business in North America. With a background in Service Design, Jess has spent the past 15 years leading teams in the design and launch of new products, services and businesses. Prior to frog, Jess was the Head of Service Design and Head of Studio at idean. Originally from Sydney, Australia, she lived in London for a number of years before moving to the US in 2019. In London, she received her Masters in Service Design.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Managing Director, frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":36591,"title":"jessica-leitch","filename":"jessica-leitch.png","filesize":61348,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/attachment/jessica-leitch/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jessica-leitch","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":36590,"date":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","modified":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":500,"height":500,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-300x300.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","mediumLargeWidth":500,"mediumLargeHeight":500,"large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","largeWidth":500,"largeHeight":500,"1536X1536":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","1536X1536Width":500,"1536X1536Height":500,"2048X2048":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","2048X2048Width":500,"2048X2048Height":500}}},{"slug":"clement-lacroix","authorName":"Clément Lacroix ","bio":"\u003cp\u003eClément is a Vice President at frog, part of Capgemini Invent, and is based in New York. He serves as the global lead for frog’s Experience Everywhere offer, an approach designed to craft, deliver, and transform iconic experiences for iconic brands. Clement has worked across various industries, including retail, hospitality, financial services, and automotive, and has managed teams of customer experience specialists, designers, and technologists creating lasting impact for multiple brands. He was previously based in France, where he notably led the launch of a mobile bank.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Vice President, Customer Experience, Digital Strategy and Transformation, frog","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":83062,"title":"Clement_Lacroix-author","filename":"Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","filesize":50250,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/clement-lacroix/attachment/clement_lacroix-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"clement_lacroix-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":47843,"date":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","modified":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":800,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-768x768.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":800,"1536X1536Height":800,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":800,"2048X2048Height":800}}}]},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true}],"ifRelated":{"image":{"id":88353,"title":"six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image","filename":"six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image.png","filesize":285621,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right/attachment/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":88335,"date":"2026-09-07 21:40:44","modified":"2026-09-07 21:40:44","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1200,"height":630,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image-300x158.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":158,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image-768x403.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":336,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image-1024x538.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":336,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image.png","1536X1536Width":1200,"1536X1536Height":630,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/six-principles-for-getting-agentic-commerce-right-share_image.png","2048X2048Width":1200,"2048X2048Height":630}},"imageOneByOne":false,"imageThreeByFour":false,"imageTwoByOne":false,"title":"Article","description":"Six 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AI Powered","filename":"Human-led-AI-Powered.gif","filesize":53319039,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/Human-led-AI-Powered.gif","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research/attachment/human-led-ai-powered/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"human-led-ai-powered","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87920,"date":"2026-08-24 17:58:48","modified":"2026-08-24 17:58:48","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1920,"height":1080,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/Human-led-AI-Powered.gif","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":84,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/Human-led-AI-Powered.gif","medium-width":300,"medium-height":169,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/Human-led-AI-Powered.gif","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":360,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/Human-led-AI-Powered.gif","large-width":640,"large-height":360,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/Human-led-AI-Powered.gif","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":864,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/Human-led-AI-Powered.gif","2048x2048-width":1920,"2048x2048-height":1080}},"video_file":false,"title":"Human-Led, AI-Augmented: The Next Generation of Research","description":"AI can generate answers. Research still creates evidence.","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eFor years, those of us working in design research have argued a simple idea: to design better products, services and experiences, we must first understand the people we are designing for. Yet this has rarely been an easy case to make. Pressure to launch faster, limited budgets and the assumption that “we already know our users” have too often pushed research down the priority list.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eParadoxically, these decisions were meant to accelerate innovation but often achieved the opposite. People constantly evolve. Their expectations, behaviors, technologies and contexts change. Research does not exist to confirm what we think we know. It exists to uncover what has changed while we assumed everything had stayed the same.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThen AI arrived. What once seemed slow, costly and difficult suddenly became possible in minutes. Synthetic research—using AI-generated users, interviews and insights to simulate research activities—promises to democratize a capability long constrained by time and budget.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is an extraordinary opportunity, but also a new responsibility. We must avoid confusing speed with understanding, coherence with evidence and probability with knowledge. AI is transforming not only how we conduct research, but also how organizations learn. The question is no longer whether AI can do research for us, but how to harness its potential without sacrificing the rigor that turns information into evidence—and evidence into better decisions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe wrong question\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen we first began experimenting with AI-enabled research platforms at frog, we expected answers, but what we found were much better questions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOur experiments align with an emerging trend in the research community. As \u003ca href=\"https://www.nngroup.com/articles/ux-job-with-ai/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eNielsen Norman Group\u003c/a\u003e has also highlighted in its reflections on AI and UX Research, the real challenge is not automating research but preserving human judgment where it creates the greatest value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt the same time, we are seeing more organizations adopt AI-augmented research platforms before defining when to use them or how to govern them. Adoption is moving faster than our ability to establish the principles needed to use these tools rigorously.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGreat research is not just about finding answers. It is about uncovering the questions we have not yet thought of asking, revealing contradictions and allowing reality to challenge our assumptions. The studies that truly change decisions are rarely comfortable: they question certainty, challenge assumptions and force us to rethink our direction. That capability remains human.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe question is no longer whether AI will replace parts of research. It is how we combine the strengths of artificial intelligence with what remains uniquely human.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBecause the future of research will be neither fully human nor fully artificial. It will, necessarily, be hybrid.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhen research becomes synthetic\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOver the past few months at frog, we moved from theory to practice. Rather than debating what synthetic research could do, we wanted to understand what happens when it becomes part of our everyday design work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTo explore this, we ran a series of experiments across different contexts: comparing synthetic and real users, testing interfaces, conducting sensitive interviews, evaluating user experience on prototypes and internal tools, and generating research materials. The goal was not to validate the tools themselves, but to observe how they behave, where they add value and where they begin to break down.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLooking at these experiments, a consistent pattern started to emerge. Synthetic outputs are clear, structured and easy to use. They reduce noise, compress complexity and make it easier to move forward. But that clarity comes with a trade-off: friction disappears. Contradictions become rare and uncertainty is resolved too early.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn comparison with real users, this became particularly visible. In our scenario, younger participants in real interviews expressed hesitation, changed their minds and struggled to articulate their future choices. Synthetic users did not. Their responses were coherent, confident and aligned. What in reality was a process of doubt became, in simulation, a resolved narrative.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe same happened in other contexts, including sensitive interviews with survivors of natural disasters. While synthetic interviews can recreate respectful language and well-structured narratives, they remain fundamentally detached from how these conversations unfold. Having worked on this type of research in real settings, one detail becomes particularly clear: these interviews are not just about what is said, but about how and when it is said. They require pacing, pauses and the ability to adapt in the moment. Synthetic interviewers, even when configured with follow-up questions, tend to run from beginning to end without questioning the interaction itself. They do not stop; they do not adjust or recognize when a participant might need space or when a conversation should naturally shift direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn usability testing, while evaluating user experience on prototypes and internal tools, interactions felt smooth, almost too smooth, with no hesitation or drop-off. In designing research studies, outputs were structured but lacked nuance and required significant reworking to become usable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhat we were seeing was not incorrect, but something fundamentally different. Synthetic research does not observe behavior. It constructs a plausible version instead.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd that distinction matters because it changes the nature of what we call insight.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat should be automated\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOnce AI-augmented research becomes part of the process, the most practical question is not whether to use it, but where it can help without distorting the outcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhat we have seen is that synthetic systems perform best when dealing with scale, repetition and structure. Tasks such as transcription, clustering, desk research or early synthesis can be accelerated without significantly changing the output. In these cases, automation reduces effort, not meaning.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is where synthetic research creates its clearest value. It allows teams to explore more directions, structure information faster and move earlier in the process. It expands capacity and reduces operational friction, particularly in the early stages where the goal is to understand the problem space rather than validate decisions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHowever, this advantage is held only while automation stays within these boundaries. The moment it begins to influence interpretation or decision-making, the nature of the output shifts. Synthetic systems do not simply process information. They shape what we see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBecause outputs arrive already articulated, already structured and often convincing enough to act on, the line between preparation and decision becomes blurred. What seems like efficiency can quickly turn into unexamined assumptions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is why automation in research is not only about speed. It is about understanding what kind of work is being accelerated and what kind of thinking might be replaced along the way.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat must remain human\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf synthetic systems expand what we can automate, they also clarify what cannot be delegated.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAcross all our experiments, the same limitation appeared in different ways. Synthetic outputs struggle not with complexity itself, but with the kind of complexity that depends on context, contradiction and lived experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJudgment is central here. Deciding what matters, what is relevant and what should be questioned is not a procedural step. It requires interpretation, context and often an awareness of things that are not explicitly visible. Synthetic systems can generate patterns, but they do not understand why those patterns matter.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe same applies to meaning. Insight is not just a structured summary. It is a shift in understanding that connects signals to decisions. It often emerges from ambiguity, from things that do not fit, or from moments that require interpretation rather than resolution.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis becomes more evident in sensitive or high-impact contexts. As we observed, synthetic systems can reproduce how people describe experiences, but not how those experiences unfold.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eSynthetic empathy is linguistic, not experiential.\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd this is where the limits become critical to acknowledge. Plausibility is not evidence. A coherent narrative is not the same as understanding. And a well-structured output does not guarantee validity.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is also where positioning AI-augmented research correctly becomes essential. It works well as an upstream layer, supporting exploration, hypothesis generation and preparation. But it should not be used as the sole source of validation, particularly in contexts where decisions depend on real behavior.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis distinction is summarized in the framework below, which shows where AI-enabled research creates value, where it requires human judgment and where real human evidence remains essential.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"image_caption_block","image":{"ID":88382,"id":88382,"title":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2","filename":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1.png","filesize":341935,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research/attachment/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87920,"date":"2026-09-22 17:28:34","modified":"2026-09-22 17:28:34","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1900,"height":1252,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-300x198.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":198,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-768x506.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":422,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-1024x675.png","large-width":640,"large-height":422,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-1536x1012.png","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":1012,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1.png","2048x2048-width":1900,"2048x2048-height":1252}},"caption":"","image_alignment":"center"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eThe question is not whether AI can replace research, but where each approach creates the greatest value. The boundary is not fixed, but the pattern is clear: when AI is used to explore, it expands thinking. When it is used as evidence, it can narrow it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd that shift leads directly to the next question: not only what we automate or what remains human, but how both should work together.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eHuman-led, AI-augmented model\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFrom everything we observed, a clear pattern emerged. Synthetic research works best not as a replacement, but as part of a hybrid sequence that combines human judgment and artificial intelligence with clear boundaries.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRather than replacing one another, human expertise and AI contribute different capabilities at different moments in the research process. What emerged from our experiments was not a linear handoff, but an iterative model in which human expertise and AI each play a distinct role.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"image_caption_block","image":{"ID":88316,"id":88316,"title":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2","filename":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2.png","filesize":802714,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research/attachment/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87920,"date":"2026-08-24 18:01:39","modified":"2026-08-24 18:07:43","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":5142,"height":1712,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-300x100.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":100,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-768x256.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":213,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-1024x341.png","large-width":640,"large-height":213,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-1536x511.png","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":511,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-2048x682.png","2048x2048-width":2048,"2048x2048-height":682}},"caption":"","image_alignment":"center"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eNot everything in research should be automated. Not everything needs to remain human. The challenge is knowing where each creates the most value. Research is no longer a choice between humans and AI. The question is which role each should play in the process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt its best, this model does not reduce the role of research. It reframes it. The role of the researcher shifts from collecting information to designing the conditions where insight is generated, challenged and turned into evidence.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe real challenge is not how much we automate, but how deliberately we combine both.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBecause the true risk is not that AI-augmented research is wrong, but that it becomes convincing enough to stop us questioning it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, what becomes important is not the sequence itself, but the clarity of the boundaries between these roles. When these boundaries blur, problems appear. If AI defines the problem, assumptions become invisible. If it drives interpretation, plausibility can be mistaken for insight.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eDesigning the next generation of research capabilities\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf there is one thing we have learned throughout this exploration, it is that the future of research will not depend on who adopts AI first, but on who learns to integrate it with the greatest judgment. AI is forcing us to move beyond a project-based view of research toward organizations that learn continuously. This requires far more than adopting new tools. It means deciding which tasks should be automated, which must remain human-led and how to combine evidence from real users, artificial intelligence and behavioral data without compromising rigor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt also demands new capabilities: evaluating AI-generated outputs, identifying bias, validating evidence and establishing governance mechanisms that determine when a response is reliable enough to support a decision. Paradoxically, the better machines become at generating answers, the more valuable uniquely human capabilities will become: asking better questions, interpreting nuance, connecting seemingly unrelated information and challenging assumptions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe future of research is not about doing less research. It is about doing it differently: more continuously, more strategically and, necessarily, more hybrid.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe future belongs to those who learn best\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI will continue to evolve. Models will improve, new platforms will emerge and many of today\u0026#8217;s limitations will disappear. But the greatest challenge will not be technological—it will be human judgment. As \u003ca href=\"https://hbr.org/2023/11/how-generative-ai-will-transform-knowledge-work\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eHarvard Business Review\u003c/a\u003e argues, competitive advantage will no longer come from producing information faster, but from interpreting it critically and applying it wisely.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor years, the biggest obstacle to research was obtaining enough evidence to make confident decisions. Today, we face the opposite challenge: answers arrive within seconds, but not every convincing answer is evidence. That responsibility no longer belongs only to research teams. It belongs to every leader making decisions about products, services, customer experiences, and innovation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt frog, we have been exploring this transformation alongside organizations already adopting these technologies. We do not believe there is a universal answer. But we are convinced that competitive advantage will belong not to those who adopt AI first, but to those who learn when to trust it, when to challenge it and when to rely on people instead.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBecause the true value of research has never been about producing answers. It has always been helping organizations make better decisions. AI will democratize answers. Evidence will become the true competitive advantage. And knowing when evidence is strong enough to shape decisions will remain profoundly human.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":86170,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-03-02 20:08:19","post_date_gmt":"2026-03-02 20:08:19","post_content":"","post_title":"Gema Cánovas","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"gema-canovas","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-07-28 18:07:56","post_modified_gmt":"2026-07-28 18:07:56","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=86170","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Gema Cánovas","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGema is a Design Director at frog where she leads the Research and Service Design practice helping organizations design better products, services and experiences. With over 20 years of experience across industries including financial services, healthcare, mobility, retail and the public sector, she specializes in translating research into strategic decisions and innovation opportunities. She has led projects for organizations including BBVA, Mapfre, IKEA, Orange and Acciona, and is also a lecturer at Universidad Politécnica de Madrid.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":" Design Director, Research \u0026 Service Design, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":86172,"id":86172,"title":"Gema-Canovas-author","filename":"Gema-Canovas-author.png","filesize":213231,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/gema-canovas/attachment/gema-canovas-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"gema-canovas-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":86170,"date":"2026-03-02 23:07:53","modified":"2026-03-02 23:07:53","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":900,"height":900,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author-300x300.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author-768x768.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author.png","large-width":640,"large-height":640,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author.png","1536x1536-width":900,"1536x1536-height":900,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author.png","2048x2048-width":900,"2048x2048-height":900}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/gema-canovas/"},{"ID":87931,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-07-28 17:48:19","post_date_gmt":"2026-07-28 17:48:19","post_content":"","post_title":"Carlota Cubelos","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"carlota-cubelos","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-07-30 17:45:31","post_modified_gmt":"2026-07-30 17:45:31","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=87931","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Carlota Cubelos","bio":"\u003cp\u003eCarlota is a Service Designer and Design Researcher at frog with over 10 years of experience at the intersection of design, research and sustainability. She helps organizations navigate complexity through human-centered research, systems thinking, and business strategy. Holding a PhD in Sustainability Science from The University of Tokyo and the United Nations University, she has worked across four continents with corporations, governments, startups and NGOs, translating insights about people, systems and emerging technologies into sustainable and meaningful futures.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Researcher \u0026 Service Designer, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":88057,"id":88057,"title":"Carlota-Cubelos-author","filename":"Carlota-Cubelos-author.jpg","filesize":174165,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Carlota-Cubelos-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/carlota-cubelos/attachment/carlota-cubelos-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"carlota-cubelos-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87931,"date":"2026-07-30 17:44:53","modified":"2026-07-30 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Generation of Research","description":"AI can generate answers. Research still creates evidence.","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eFor years, those of us working in design research have argued a simple idea: to design better products, services and experiences, we must first understand the people we are designing for. Yet this has rarely been an easy case to make. Pressure to launch faster, limited budgets and the assumption that “we already know our users” have too often pushed research down the priority list.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eParadoxically, these decisions were meant to accelerate innovation but often achieved the opposite. People constantly evolve. Their expectations, behaviors, technologies and contexts change. Research does not exist to confirm what we think we know. It exists to uncover what has changed while we assumed everything had stayed the same.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThen AI arrived. What once seemed slow, costly and difficult suddenly became possible in minutes. Synthetic research—using AI-generated users, interviews and insights to simulate research activities—promises to democratize a capability long constrained by time and budget.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is an extraordinary opportunity, but also a new responsibility. We must avoid confusing speed with understanding, coherence with evidence and probability with knowledge. AI is transforming not only how we conduct research, but also how organizations learn. The question is no longer whether AI can do research for us, but how to harness its potential without sacrificing the rigor that turns information into evidence—and evidence into better decisions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe wrong question\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen we first began experimenting with AI-enabled research platforms at frog, we expected answers, but what we found were much better questions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOur experiments align with an emerging trend in the research community. As \u003ca href=\"https://www.nngroup.com/articles/ux-job-with-ai/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eNielsen Norman Group\u003c/a\u003e has also highlighted in its reflections on AI and UX Research, the real challenge is not automating research but preserving human judgment where it creates the greatest value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt the same time, we are seeing more organizations adopt AI-augmented research platforms before defining when to use them or how to govern them. Adoption is moving faster than our ability to establish the principles needed to use these tools rigorously.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGreat research is not just about finding answers. It is about uncovering the questions we have not yet thought of asking, revealing contradictions and allowing reality to challenge our assumptions. The studies that truly change decisions are rarely comfortable: they question certainty, challenge assumptions and force us to rethink our direction. That capability remains human.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe question is no longer whether AI will replace parts of research. It is how we combine the strengths of artificial intelligence with what remains uniquely human.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBecause the future of research will be neither fully human nor fully artificial. It will, necessarily, be hybrid.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhen research becomes synthetic\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOver the past few months at frog, we moved from theory to practice. Rather than debating what synthetic research could do, we wanted to understand what happens when it becomes part of our everyday design work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTo explore this, we ran a series of experiments across different contexts: comparing synthetic and real users, testing interfaces, conducting sensitive interviews, evaluating user experience on prototypes and internal tools, and generating research materials. The goal was not to validate the tools themselves, but to observe how they behave, where they add value and where they begin to break down.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLooking at these experiments, a consistent pattern started to emerge. Synthetic outputs are clear, structured and easy to use. They reduce noise, compress complexity and make it easier to move forward. But that clarity comes with a trade-off: friction disappears. Contradictions become rare and uncertainty is resolved too early.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn comparison with real users, this became particularly visible. In our scenario, younger participants in real interviews expressed hesitation, changed their minds and struggled to articulate their future choices. Synthetic users did not. Their responses were coherent, confident and aligned. What in reality was a process of doubt became, in simulation, a resolved narrative.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe same happened in other contexts, including sensitive interviews with survivors of natural disasters. While synthetic interviews can recreate respectful language and well-structured narratives, they remain fundamentally detached from how these conversations unfold. Having worked on this type of research in real settings, one detail becomes particularly clear: these interviews are not just about what is said, but about how and when it is said. They require pacing, pauses and the ability to adapt in the moment. Synthetic interviewers, even when configured with follow-up questions, tend to run from beginning to end without questioning the interaction itself. They do not stop; they do not adjust or recognize when a participant might need space or when a conversation should naturally shift direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn usability testing, while evaluating user experience on prototypes and internal tools, interactions felt smooth, almost too smooth, with no hesitation or drop-off. In designing research studies, outputs were structured but lacked nuance and required significant reworking to become usable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhat we were seeing was not incorrect, but something fundamentally different. Synthetic research does not observe behavior. It constructs a plausible version instead.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd that distinction matters because it changes the nature of what we call insight.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat should be automated\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOnce AI-augmented research becomes part of the process, the most practical question is not whether to use it, but where it can help without distorting the outcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhat we have seen is that synthetic systems perform best when dealing with scale, repetition and structure. Tasks such as transcription, clustering, desk research or early synthesis can be accelerated without significantly changing the output. In these cases, automation reduces effort, not meaning.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is where synthetic research creates its clearest value. It allows teams to explore more directions, structure information faster and move earlier in the process. It expands capacity and reduces operational friction, particularly in the early stages where the goal is to understand the problem space rather than validate decisions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHowever, this advantage is held only while automation stays within these boundaries. The moment it begins to influence interpretation or decision-making, the nature of the output shifts. Synthetic systems do not simply process information. They shape what we see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBecause outputs arrive already articulated, already structured and often convincing enough to act on, the line between preparation and decision becomes blurred. What seems like efficiency can quickly turn into unexamined assumptions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is why automation in research is not only about speed. It is about understanding what kind of work is being accelerated and what kind of thinking might be replaced along the way.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat must remain human\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf synthetic systems expand what we can automate, they also clarify what cannot be delegated.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAcross all our experiments, the same limitation appeared in different ways. Synthetic outputs struggle not with complexity itself, but with the kind of complexity that depends on context, contradiction and lived experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJudgment is central here. Deciding what matters, what is relevant and what should be questioned is not a procedural step. It requires interpretation, context and often an awareness of things that are not explicitly visible. Synthetic systems can generate patterns, but they do not understand why those patterns matter.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe same applies to meaning. Insight is not just a structured summary. It is a shift in understanding that connects signals to decisions. It often emerges from ambiguity, from things that do not fit, or from moments that require interpretation rather than resolution.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis becomes more evident in sensitive or high-impact contexts. As we observed, synthetic systems can reproduce how people describe experiences, but not how those experiences unfold.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eSynthetic empathy is linguistic, not experiential.\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd this is where the limits become critical to acknowledge. Plausibility is not evidence. A coherent narrative is not the same as understanding. And a well-structured output does not guarantee validity.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is also where positioning AI-augmented research correctly becomes essential. It works well as an upstream layer, supporting exploration, hypothesis generation and preparation. But it should not be used as the sole source of validation, particularly in contexts where decisions depend on real behavior.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis distinction is summarized in the framework below, which shows where AI-enabled research creates value, where it requires human judgment and where real human evidence remains essential.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"image_caption_block","image":{"id":88382,"title":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2","filename":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1.png","filesize":341935,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research/attachment/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-2","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87920,"date":"2026-09-22 17:28:34","modified":"2026-09-22 17:28:34","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1900,"height":1252,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-300x198.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":198,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-768x506.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":422,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-1024x675.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":422,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1-1536x1012.png","1536X1536Width":1536,"1536X1536Height":1012,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2-1.png","2048X2048Width":1900,"2048X2048Height":1252}},"caption":"","imageAlignment":"center"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eThe question is not whether AI can replace research, but where each approach creates the greatest value. The boundary is not fixed, but the pattern is clear: when AI is used to explore, it expands thinking. When it is used as evidence, it can narrow it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd that shift leads directly to the next question: not only what we automate or what remains human, but how both should work together.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eHuman-led, AI-augmented model\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFrom everything we observed, a clear pattern emerged. Synthetic research works best not as a replacement, but as part of a hybrid sequence that combines human judgment and artificial intelligence with clear boundaries.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRather than replacing one another, human expertise and AI contribute different capabilities at different moments in the research process. What emerged from our experiments was not a linear handoff, but an iterative model in which human expertise and AI each play a distinct role.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"image_caption_block","image":{"id":88316,"title":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2","filename":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2.png","filesize":802714,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research/attachment/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-graphic_2","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87920,"date":"2026-08-24 18:01:39","modified":"2026-08-24 18:07:43","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":5142,"height":1712,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-300x100.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":100,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-768x256.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":213,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-1024x341.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":213,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-1536x511.png","1536X1536Width":1536,"1536X1536Height":511,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-Graphic_2-2048x682.png","2048X2048Width":2048,"2048X2048Height":682}},"caption":"","imageAlignment":"center"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eNot everything in research should be automated. Not everything needs to remain human. The challenge is knowing where each creates the most value. Research is no longer a choice between humans and AI. The question is which role each should play in the process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt its best, this model does not reduce the role of research. It reframes it. The role of the researcher shifts from collecting information to designing the conditions where insight is generated, challenged and turned into evidence.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe real challenge is not how much we automate, but how deliberately we combine both.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBecause the true risk is not that AI-augmented research is wrong, but that it becomes convincing enough to stop us questioning it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, what becomes important is not the sequence itself, but the clarity of the boundaries between these roles. When these boundaries blur, problems appear. If AI defines the problem, assumptions become invisible. If it drives interpretation, plausibility can be mistaken for insight.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eDesigning the next generation of research capabilities\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf there is one thing we have learned throughout this exploration, it is that the future of research will not depend on who adopts AI first, but on who learns to integrate it with the greatest judgment. AI is forcing us to move beyond a project-based view of research toward organizations that learn continuously. This requires far more than adopting new tools. It means deciding which tasks should be automated, which must remain human-led and how to combine evidence from real users, artificial intelligence and behavioral data without compromising rigor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt also demands new capabilities: evaluating AI-generated outputs, identifying bias, validating evidence and establishing governance mechanisms that determine when a response is reliable enough to support a decision. Paradoxically, the better machines become at generating answers, the more valuable uniquely human capabilities will become: asking better questions, interpreting nuance, connecting seemingly unrelated information and challenging assumptions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe future of research is not about doing less research. It is about doing it differently: more continuously, more strategically and, necessarily, more hybrid.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe future belongs to those who learn best\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI will continue to evolve. Models will improve, new platforms will emerge and many of today\u0026#8217;s limitations will disappear. But the greatest challenge will not be technological—it will be human judgment. As \u003ca href=\"https://hbr.org/2023/11/how-generative-ai-will-transform-knowledge-work\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eHarvard Business Review\u003c/a\u003e argues, competitive advantage will no longer come from producing information faster, but from interpreting it critically and applying it wisely.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor years, the biggest obstacle to research was obtaining enough evidence to make confident decisions. Today, we face the opposite challenge: answers arrive within seconds, but not every convincing answer is evidence. That responsibility no longer belongs only to research teams. It belongs to every leader making decisions about products, services, customer experiences, and innovation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt frog, we have been exploring this transformation alongside organizations already adopting these technologies. We do not believe there is a universal answer. But we are convinced that competitive advantage will belong not to those who adopt AI first, but to those who learn when to trust it, when to challenge it and when to rely on people instead.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBecause the true value of research has never been about producing answers. It has always been helping organizations make better decisions. AI will democratize answers. Evidence will become the true competitive advantage. And knowing when evidence is strong enough to shape decisions will remain profoundly human.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"gema-canovas","authorName":"Gema Cánovas","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGema is a Design Director at frog where she leads the Research and Service Design practice helping organizations design better products, services and experiences. With over 20 years of experience across industries including financial services, healthcare, mobility, retail and the public sector, she specializes in translating research into strategic decisions and innovation opportunities. She has led projects for organizations including BBVA, Mapfre, IKEA, Orange and Acciona, and is also a lecturer at Universidad Politécnica de Madrid.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":" Design Director, Research \u0026 Service Design, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":86172,"title":"Gema-Canovas-author","filename":"Gema-Canovas-author.png","filesize":213231,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/gema-canovas/attachment/gema-canovas-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"gema-canovas-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86170,"date":"2026-03-02 23:07:53","modified":"2026-03-02 23:07:53","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":900,"height":900,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author-300x300.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author-768x768.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author.png","1536X1536Width":900,"1536X1536Height":900,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Gema-Canovas-author.png","2048X2048Width":900,"2048X2048Height":900}}},{"slug":"carlota-cubelos","authorName":"Carlota Cubelos","bio":"\u003cp\u003eCarlota is a Service Designer and Design Researcher at frog with over 10 years of experience at the intersection of design, research and sustainability. She helps organizations navigate complexity through human-centered research, systems thinking, and business strategy. Holding a PhD in Sustainability Science from The University of Tokyo and the United Nations University, she has worked across four continents with corporations, governments, startups and NGOs, translating insights about people, systems and emerging technologies into sustainable and meaningful futures.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Researcher \u0026 Service Designer, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":88057,"title":"Carlota-Cubelos-author","filename":"Carlota-Cubelos-author.jpg","filesize":174165,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Carlota-Cubelos-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/carlota-cubelos/attachment/carlota-cubelos-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"carlota-cubelos-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87931,"date":"2026-07-30 17:44:53","modified":"2026-07-30 17:44:53","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":800,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Carlota-Cubelos-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Carlota-Cubelos-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Carlota-Cubelos-author-768x768.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Carlota-Cubelos-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Carlota-Cubelos-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":800,"1536X1536Height":800,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Carlota-Cubelos-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":800,"2048X2048Height":800}}}]},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true}],"ifRelated":{"image":{"id":88295,"title":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-share_image","filename":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-share_image.png","filesize":419846,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research/attachment/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research-share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87920,"date":"2026-08-24 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AI-Augmented: The Next Generation of Research","url":"/designmind/human-led-ai-augmented-the-next-generation-of-research"},"featuredArticles":{"eyebrow":"Related work","useHomeData":false,"articles":[{"title":"Learning Must Keep up With the Speed of AI","description":"Article","image":{"id":87747,"title":"learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-share_image","filename":"learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-share_image.jpg","filesize":279082,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-share_image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai/attachment/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87228,"date":"2026-07-08 18:19:43","modified":"2026-07-08 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18:08:04","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":2880,"height":1104,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/design-mind-frogcast-ep-62-the-serious-side-of-playful-design-header-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/design-mind-frogcast-ep-62-the-serious-side-of-playful-design-header-300x115.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/design-mind-frogcast-ep-62-the-serious-side-of-playful-design-header-768x294.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/design-mind-frogcast-ep-62-the-serious-side-of-playful-design-header-1024x393.png","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/design-mind-frogcast-ep-62-the-serious-side-of-playful-design-header-1536x589.png","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":589,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/design-mind-frogcast-ep-62-the-serious-side-of-playful-design-header-2048x785.png","2048x2048-width":2048,"2048x2048-height":785}},"video_file":false,"title":"Design Mind frogcast Ep.62 – The Serious Side of Playful Design ","description":"Our Guest: Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer, frog","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://share.transistor.fm/e/9dac4f12\" width=\"100%\" height=\"180\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast, we\u0026#8217;re exploring the serious side of playful design. To guide us through the conversation, we\u0026#8217;re joined by Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJenny shares why it’s hard work to make things not feel like hard work. We also discuss the role of play in design, how creativity can unlock better experiences and why designing for neurodiversity—like designing for any kind of accessibility—makes it better for everybody.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJenny also speaks about AI, dating apps, and why pulling from a deep well of silliness can help create more human experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode above. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTo find out about the evolving expectations shaping the future of luxury, download frog\u0026#8217;s report, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 62:\u003c/strong\u003e The Serious Side of Playful Design\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuest:\u003c/strong\u003e Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer, frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:04] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we’re talking seriously about the role of play in the workplace. To do this, we’re joined by Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer at frog. Jenny’s path into design wasn\u0026#8217;t a conventional one. From discovering graphic design through a library book in rural Kansas to building a career around creativity, systems thinking and problem solving, Jenny\u0026#8217;s story is shaped by curiosity and a willingness to follow what fascinates her–even if that means being brave enough to get a bit silly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere’s Jenny now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:47] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I love seeing how things are made and I think that that\u0026#8217;s something that most of the projects I get really excited about are those things where I get to kind of understand all the, like, inner logistics and kind of the plumbing of why people are making decisions, why companies are structured the way they are. I don\u0026#8217;t know, I feel like I get to see this is such a boring cliche, but I get to see behind the curtain.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:10] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#8217;m Jenny Savage, and I\u0026#8217;m a Senior Visual Designer at frog. My trajectory from birth to frog — I\u0026#8217;m going way back, when I was in third grade, we had this activity where we had to do a scavenger hunt and then tape all the things we found to a poster board and I thought mine was incredible. I\u0026#8217;m always trying to get an A-plus, but this girl, I think her mother helped her — it was all color coordinated and laid out beautifully. It was all green and pristine and it kind of blew my mind. I didn\u0026#8217;t know that you could do things like that and it really, one, made me angry and then, two, stuck with me. Later, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life and what I wanted to do in college and so my dad put me on to graphic design. I didn\u0026#8217;t know what it was, but my library in my rural Kansas high school had one book called “What is Graphic Design?” and I read it. It had to be like maybe 30 pages long and in the back, it had a local college and I ended up going there. The stars aligned for me just to become a graphic designer and it really matched my way of thinking and the things that I like to do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:18] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I went to a community college, and it was run by women who had left an art school, and so it was really good, but it was only two years. And then when I went back to school, it was for a certificate program at a portfolio school. So, am I educated? Absolutely. But is it also mostly self-taught? I would say, you know, I\u0026#8217;ve learned on the job.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:41] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Not every career move is about climbing the ladder. For Jenny, one important step was learning where she could make her greatest impact.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:48] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I was an associate creative director, and then realized I really got a lot of juice and satisfaction about doing the work, so I jumped back in as a senior designer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:56] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I think leadership is a calling and what\u0026#8217;s surprising about going from a making role into a leadership role is it\u0026#8217;s a totally new job and it\u0026#8217;s three jobs and what I really loved about it was that you have so much ability to influence the process, which I really love. But I got really jealous of the teammates that were able to benefit from this new beautiful process and so I learned a lot about myself in the role and what I learned is what I really enjoy is solving the problem and spending the time doing some of the deep work, so the move back was really selfish in a way, because it was just what I loved doing and it\u0026#8217;s what I get a lot of satisfaction out of.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:42] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Behind the humor is a serious belief that creativity thrives when teams feel comfortable enough to experiment, collaborate and play, which sometimes includes getting a clever nickname.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:52] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I love getting a nickname. I was so happy when someone called me the Rainbow Hammer. I could really see myself in it. I\u0026#8217;ve got this, I think, bubbly, disarming personality. At least that\u0026#8217;s what my therapist has told me. And I\u0026#8217;m also really direct. I like to look at the system underneath a design and pick it apart and get really, really crisp, really clear about why we want to do something. So, I used to be brought into other people\u0026#8217;s teams to not necessarily say the hard thing, but just to be another voice to, I think, support sometimes when someone was having a problem, or a problem wasn\u0026#8217;t really—the solution wasn\u0026#8217;t coming together in the right way. So people would bring me in to give feedback, and that\u0026#8217;s where I got that nickname.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn addition to being called the Rainbow Hammer, I\u0026#8217;ve been called the Vibe Mechanic, and more recently, a QuipMaxxer, and I feel like those three kind of tell a similar story of direct communication, but paired with, I think, a nice friendly, goofy energy.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:56] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, having a kind of goofy approach to things can be really difficult, especially in client relationships. I\u0026#8217;ve actually gotten feedback before and I also spend a lot of work on it, because I know that play and energy are a core ingredient of being, one, creative and \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/building-a-culture-of-collaboration\"\u003ecollaborating with other people\u003c/a\u003e. But if you don\u0026#8217;t know me and you don\u0026#8217;t know that, it can appear really flippant and unserious and like you\u0026#8217;re not really there to do the work. So, there is a balance, I think, sometimes that I have to strike. So sometimes there will be a game face or a step back or a little bit of the energy out, but it has to be something that I prepare for and I think that\u0026#8217;s also a big part of being neurodiverse is that you have to be responsible and manage for parts of your personality or approach that might come across in a way that you don\u0026#8217;t necessarily want. And I guess that\u0026#8217;s also design at its core.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:05:55] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/creativity-is-not-a-switch\"\u003eKeeping things playful at work\u003c/a\u003e really is one of my favorite topics and things to talk about. I feel like I\u0026#8217;m bringing it up internally constantly, because if you want good work, generally you need good designers, but if you want great work, those good designers have to be a really strong team and you also need a good process and the thing that all of those have in common is play. Play and creativity and just being soft and goofy, together gives you openness. It gives you good communication and then it kind of opens the door for the creativity. You need to be idiots together to be able to come up with new associations, new ways to solve a problem and it is a great social lubricant. So, I do try to goof up teams as much as I can, but because it can come across as so unserious and silly and we\u0026#8217;re doing really serious work a lot of the time, these things, you know, mean a lot to a lot of people, so I find that it\u0026#8217;s really useful if I compare the goof to a \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/love-company-culture\"\u003eritual\u003c/a\u003e. So, if we\u0026#8217;re doing something like sports points. So instead of complimenting each other, we say you get five sports points. I had a team who kept track of all their sports points, which are absolutely fake things, over the course of like a year, and they had opened up a digital shop of things that you could buy with your sports points. If there\u0026#8217;s a team where we have to have a decision, like two people have very opposing views, I call that Thunderdome. We schedule a meeting, two people come in, one idea leaves, usually it\u0026#8217;s a combination of the two, but by calling it Thunderdome, what a fun energy to bring some combative spirit. I think that\u0026#8217;s a nice framing, because then you get to, like, you know, leverage your energy appropriately.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:35] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e So, my energy, I feel like I pull from a deep well of silliness. Something about being in front of people just gives me all this showboating energy. So, if I want to do deep work, I do need to step aside, find my own little area, get a little zen and then go really deep, and I really do like the deep work, but as far as energy management, I do find that and I think it is in part because of my ADHD, that if I\u0026#8217;m not paying too much attention, I burn out that battery and then when my entire weekend is spent in front of the couch with my dogs playing Power Wash Simulator. So, it is something that I need to be a little bit more careful about, but I think that scheduling can maybe accommodate some of that, which is also something that I like to think a lot about work systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:27] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Designing for people means understanding how they think, collaborate and make decisions. For Jenny, workshops are one of the most powerful ways to unlock those insights and bring teams together around shared ideas.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:38] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I always have loved facilitating workshops. I didn\u0026#8217;t know it was a passion of mine until I came to frog and was able to do it. I did improv in high school, and some musical theatre and something about facilitating a workshop really scratches that itch for me and then I also really love bossing people around. The thing that I really like about workshops is that it takes a rigid structure that we know is going to funnel us into really good work, really good output, like it is very designed to get something specific. But then, the way we go about it is we\u0026#8217;re introducing movement and kind of tactile pieces and play and energy specifically for the client in the room to make sure that we\u0026#8217;re getting it really fast. It is an incredibly beautiful and efficient system, even though it can feel really silly and goofy. When I heard about workshops, when I first joined, they were putting people in hats, we were role-playing, some had wigs, so we don\u0026#8217;t necessarily do that now, but because we\u0026#8217;re all able to be in these shared whiteboards, I think it\u0026#8217;s nice that people now have more agency to be able to move things around, add things that they want, but the trick is taking all that good stuff from the good old pre-Panini days of standing in a room and playing with toys essentially. The trick is going to be taking that and then being able to recreate that in our digital whiteboards. I like to use icebreakers to really get people to open up and like, set the tone. One thing that we do that you can do in any workshop to add a little bit of flavor is, we call it a rose ceremony. So, like, The Bachelor, it\u0026#8217;s really just dot voting, you can just pick a different picture. We\u0026#8217;ve done chickens, we\u0026#8217;ve done golf puns. I think it\u0026#8217;s a really easy way to add a little spirit without any extra work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:10:33] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I love facilitation and I don\u0026#8217;t know why. It just really gives you a chance to see how other people are thinking and catch when they might be stuck in a loop. I used to help my friend design big haunted houses in his garage for a few years and it kind of, facilitating a workshop does feel like designing a haunted house in a way, you need to get people in the door, so it can\u0026#8217;t be too scary and then as they, as they move through it, you really need to kind of think about pacing and when you\u0026#8217;re giving people a break and then when you\u0026#8217;re, when you\u0026#8217;re surprising them with tasks and you don\u0026#8217;t want to, you don\u0026#8217;t want them to be able to see too far into it, so that they know what to expect, but at the same time, it\u0026#8217;s we\u0026#8217;re here for an output. So, you need to give them some assurances that their time is going to be really well spent. It\u0026#8217;s such a fun thing to design for and participate in, but it\u0026#8217;s, oh, it\u0026#8217;s a lot of work. You can spend two weeks on what is two hours, but I always think it\u0026#8217;s worth it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:27] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That balance between structure and creativity also informs Jenny\u0026#8217;s perspective on neurodiversity. Living with ADHD has influenced a lot about how she works, especially how she thinks about designing products, services and experiences for others.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:40] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e Let’s start talking about ADHD. ADHD being the type of neurodiversity I am most familiar with. There\u0026#8217;s a lot of kinds and I\u0026#8217;ve found that it\u0026#8217;s super misunderstood. Do I read about it? Do I read a lot of research? Absolutely, but there\u0026#8217;s still things that people are finding out about it. But what I found in my work life and then doing experiments on the side, is that it\u0026#8217;s actually about interest, not so much distractibility and it\u0026#8217;s about momentum and efficiency. So, it\u0026#8217;s painted as this distractible, messy kind of feeling. But what I found is that it\u0026#8217;s actually whatever is the most interesting thing in the environment is going to get my interest. And if I\u0026#8217;m moving, if I have momentum and I\u0026#8217;m getting something done, I\u0026#8217;m not going to stop to do something else, because I will see something more interesting, and I\u0026#8217;ll move into that. So, if I found that I\u0026#8217;ve had any piles, or a big thing that people talk about with ADHD, it\u0026#8217;s a symptom of the environment, more so than a symptom of me. I\u0026#8217;m trying to move fast, like, there should be a shelf there if there\u0026#8217;s a pile, and I think that that\u0026#8217;s really interesting when we get into designing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:48] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e Designing for neurodiversity is like \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/inclusive-design\"\u003edesigning for any kind of accessibility\u003c/a\u003e, it makes it better for everybody at the end of the day, but I think with ADHD, especially, we need to offload more onto the environment. There needs to be less things that the brain is trying to remember. Decision fatigue is real for everybody and especially with ADHD, it could pull you off into another direction, which is why I always think it\u0026#8217;s funny when we have apps meant for focus or apps meant for different kinds of task management or relief, because you\u0026#8217;re basically putting me into the world\u0026#8217;s most distracting environments to try to keep me focused. So, that\u0026#8217;s one of those behaviors that I think is really funny, and one of the things that\u0026#8217;s maybe misunderstood about ADHD as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:13:33] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e When I\u0026#8217;m designing, I do try to make things really scannable. So, from the first glance you have to have a very clear body language of what is this type of information and what is it going to ask you to do? So, if it\u0026#8217;s a form, it needs to look like a form. If there\u0026#8217;s going to be one action, it needs to look like there\u0026#8217;s going to be one action or someone might completely move on and lose focus. Like, what is it telling me to do? That kind of goes back to that piece of pointiness. Like, how clear is it without reading what I will be doing here? Simplicity as well, I said before, I really like it when people can just delete things and simplify it and there\u0026#8217;s always this idea of added value. If we give more information, that\u0026#8217;s more information. We\u0026#8217;ve done all this work or you might want to know these things and while that is true, more is more. It also means way less focus. So, you are stealing from someone\u0026#8217;s momentum and clarity when you give information that isn\u0026#8217;t crucial to an interaction or a presentation or a deck. I love, I\u0026#8217;m a big purger, I love deleting things for accessibility.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:36] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#8217;s convenient because\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/make-space-for-inclusive-design-in-2020\"\u003e good design for neurodiversity is also good design for design\u0026#8217;s sake\u003c/a\u003e. So, learning late in life that I had ADHD, what a gift to already know about interaction and general design. Recently, on a program, we were working with this investment client and it was a project around retirement savings and goals, but the way that you hear people talk about retirement savings, people don\u0026#8217;t seem to do it and they couldn\u0026#8217;t really seem to figure out why. And when I was reading through it, we realized that they\u0026#8217;re educating around, “Do you know you should save?” Yes, everyone knows that they should save. But why aren\u0026#8217;t people doing it? And I think it was the framing. So, we realized it was actually kind of self-defeating, because it freaks people out. If you ask someone, “Did you remember to save?” the thing that you\u0026#8217;re not saying is, “you\u0026#8217;re going to die, do you have enough death points?” and that\u0026#8217;s really scary. And I think that that\u0026#8217;s the kind of thing that looking at like the core nugget and the behavior that we\u0026#8217;re expecting versus what we\u0026#8217;re saying to kind of find a better entry point is something that I wouldn\u0026#8217;t have been able to do if I hadn\u0026#8217;t spent so much time trying to understand why I am like this with regards to ADHD and behaviors. So, we were able to kind of pivot some of the ideas away from, “are you ready to die” scary to, “how are you using your money to make more meaning in your life,” which one more positive and much more directional, as far as being able to come up with really cool things that you can do for customers and yourself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:16:10] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e We’re going to take a short break. When we return, Jenny will share more about her ultimate dream design project: the dating app.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"ID":87898,"id":87898,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","filesize":306311,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87867,"date":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","modified":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-300x287.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":287,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-768x735.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-1024x980.png","large-width":640,"large-height":613,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","1536x1536-width":1268,"1536x1536-height":1214,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","2048x2048-width":1268,"2048x2048-height":1214}},"description":"Unveiling the expectations of (Ultra) High-Net-Worth Individuals","report_link":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury","type":"internal"}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:16:48] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Now back to Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer at frog. During our conversation, she shared what her dream design project would be.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:16:56] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that social media and dating apps are extremely similar and both terrible in their own special ways. Dating apps, I think it\u0026#8217;s so funny because they\u0026#8217;re so important and they\u0026#8217;re such a vulnerable space and from what I can tell, it\u0026#8217;s kind of the key way that people are meeting each other now, but it is completely not designed to foster any kind of connection.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:20] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I think the design of dating apps, is really funny right now, because it is kind of like the world\u0026#8217;s saddest LinkedIn. It\u0026#8217;s really presenting you with the most inefficient way to hire someone.  I think it could really benefit from some more passive facilitation. So, like the bakery that\u0026#8217;s designed to perfectly time the bread to go into the truck, I really think that that could be more of an inspiration for dating apps, like how are they thinking about the flow, how are they thinking the build-up, how are they thinking of the handoff, like how are they making this environment comfortable, why is texting a regular old text interface. What about that invites any sort of sharing or intimacy or even safety and they all seem to operate on this profile, profile game, and that\u0026#8217;s really strange, because to have a good profile, we are relying on people\u0026#8217;s ability to take good photographs and write well, which, as everybody knows, are classic everyday great skills. We don\u0026#8217;t go to school for that at all.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:18:19] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e If I could redesign them, I do think it would be a dream project, because right now there\u0026#8217;s no shared activity or shared pact. You enter into the space, all these strangers, it feels like you\u0026#8217;re hiring someone. It isn\u0026#8217;t really giving you any sort of passive facilitation that you could just kind of get into and gives you a good start. It\u0026#8217;s entirely cold opens and based on the strength of people being able to write well and take really good photographs. So, in that respect, I do think it is a really interesting place to borrow paradigms and interaction patterns from video games or other places of social media, because it\u0026#8217;s, at the end of the day, I mean, besides human connection, what is there? It\u0026#8217;s really fascinating, and if I had my druthers, I think it would also be a public utility. I think that more social media should be a public utility.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:08] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Whether she\u0026#8217;s exploring internet culture or rethinking digital products, Jenny is ultimately interested in tools that shape how people create and communicate. That naturally leads to questions about \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/by/offering/data-and-ai\"\u003eartificial intelligence\u003c/a\u003e and what it might mean for the future of design.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:22] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I have a lot of feelings about AI, and there is also a lot of services out there, but I primarily just use Midjourney, It\u0026#8217;s my own personal TV show. I love any chance to use it and I bounce between Claude and ChatGPT. What I find is that their personalities will start to annoy me a little bit, so I can swap over to the other one, like a new boyfriend and it also helps me see their patterns and their kind of stylistic choices, which is really nice, because it, it forces me to remember that they\u0026#8217;re not a conversation partner, because you can\u0026#8217;t have a conversation if you\u0026#8217;re not actually talking to anybody. And that it\u0026#8217;s just a nice big auto spell and it will, and that you\u0026#8217;re just searching for a shape, like a prompt is just a search and it\u0026#8217;s like here\u0026#8217;s the kind of shape that we think that you want, but at the end of the day, some of the information will be right and some of the information will be wrong, you only need one really bad slow cooker recipe, I think to remember that, but I think that switching between the two is really helpful for me, because sometimes you read what it gives you and you\u0026#8217;re like, “oh yes, that is it,” but then other times it\u0026#8217;s like, “what are you? What does that mean?”\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:20:30] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the thing that surprises people is that I use it like sports visualization. If I want to do something and I\u0026#8217;m a little nervous, or I don\u0026#8217;t know if it\u0026#8217;ll work out, I ask it to tell me a story about it working out for me and I do that a couple of times, and I\u0026#8217;m like, I can see it, and then I feel really confident about it and I also really like to use it to fold mental models together, which I always think is really interesting, but I do dislike most of the writing that it does. But I really appreciate it can kind of give me the shape of things and I can kind of pick and pick and choose what I want, but I find if I use it too long, my brain turns to absolute mush. I\u0026#8217;m like, “what are words?” So, it\u0026#8217;s super important for me to take breaks from it as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:10] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e AI is such a fascinating space as a designer when we think about all the prototyping tools that are coming out, because it\u0026#8217;s like we\u0026#8217;re taking our hand tools and we\u0026#8217;re saying now it\u0026#8217;s all going to just be language, so we\u0026#8217;ve taken all the clickies out and now it\u0026#8217;s all typey, which is really funny because there\u0026#8217;s that phrase, “a picture is worth a thousand words,” but now we\u0026#8217;re like, what if you described what you wanted in words? It\u0026#8217;s very tricky, and so what I kind of see happening is now that we\u0026#8217;ve been able to abstract the creation of design artifacts by using this kind of magical anything can be auto spelled. It just puts you right in the middle of the pile, right? It\u0026#8217;s not thinking for you, it\u0026#8217;s just like, here\u0026#8217;s kind of a thing, this is what you meant and usually it is. I find that asking it to do that through language is going to be really tricky. I think that the next thing that\u0026#8217;s going to happen is that we\u0026#8217;re able to make tools on top of that again. I keep thinking about having an MS-DOS computer when I was a kid, aiming like C, colon backslash, I don\u0026#8217;t know, snake game or whatever. That’s what AI and language prompts are for me right now. So, I\u0026#8217;m kind of waiting for the new graphics user interface, and I think it\u0026#8217;s going to be really exciting. I would love to have more things that I can touch and things that I can move. It\u0026#8217;s just better. It\u0026#8217;s better for my brain as a neurodiverse person. \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/reconnecting-through-movement\"\u003eAnd I think just people in general want to use their bodies\u003c/a\u003e. It\u0026#8217;s so much better for you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:22:33] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e And one other thing that I think is really interesting about just imagining the future of these AI tools is who owns them, in a way, they\u0026#8217;re very personal, the way I use Mid Journey and Claude, they learn from me, so they\u0026#8217;re very much my tools. It feels like I\u0026#8217;m raising a partner and so if  the memory of how I want it to use it and how it even responds to me is owned by someone else, what does that mean for me? It feels like it\u0026#8217;s something closer to like a pet dog or even my school time. It\u0026#8217;s something that I\u0026#8217;m responsible for bringing to a workplace. So, it\u0026#8217;s really interesting if the workplace owns something that I\u0026#8217;m essentially growing like a, like a potted plant or a puppy. It\u0026#8217;s hard work to make things not feel like, like hard work, but it\u0026#8217;s really important to me, because I think that it, it just makes everything so much easier, and at the end of the day, it makes the work better.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:29] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and more from our conversation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:20] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e We really want to thank our guest, Jenny Savage, senior visual designer at frog, for sharing her curiosity, insights and unique approach to design. We also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eand Spotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"ID":88134,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-08-06 19:23:02","post_date_gmt":"2026-08-06 19:23:02","post_content":"","post_title":"Jenny Savage","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"jenny-savage","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-08-12 16:07:46","post_modified_gmt":"2026-08-12 16:07:46","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=88134","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Jenny Savage","bio":"\u003cp\u003eJenny Savage is a Senior Visual Designer and creative thinker at frog, where she’s spent more than a decade bringing together design strategy, storytelling, systems thinking, facilitation and emerging AI capabilities. She specializes in turning complex ideas into clear, human-centered experiences and helping teams move from vision to action. Curious and playful by nature, Jenny loves exploring neurodiversity and sharing POVs, mental models and unexpected connections that help people see familiar problems differently. She’s equally at home facilitating workshops, shaping design systems and visual identities or making comics in her spare time.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Senior Visual Designer, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":88136,"id":88136,"title":"jenny savage headshot","filename":"jenny-savage-headshot.png","filesize":660940,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jenny-savage/attachment/jenny-savage-headshot/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jenny-savage-headshot","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":88134,"date":"2026-08-06 19:24:59","modified":"2026-08-06 19:24:59","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":979,"height":1024,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot-287x300.png","medium-width":287,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot-768x803.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":669,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot.png","large-width":640,"large-height":669,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot.png","1536x1536-width":979,"1536x1536-height":1024,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot.png","2048x2048-width":979,"2048x2048-height":1024}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jenny-savage/"},{"ID":16815,"post_author":"16","post_date":"2020-11-20 23:18:33","post_date_gmt":"2020-11-20 23:18:33","post_content":"","post_title":"Elizabeth Wood","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"elizabeth-wood","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2023-08-20 08:53:37","post_modified_gmt":"2023-08-20 08:53:37","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=16815","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Elizabeth Wood","bio":"\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eElizabeth tells design stories for frog. She first joined the New York studio in 2011, working on multidisciplinary teams to design award-winning products and services. Today, Elizabeth works out of the London studio on the global frog marketing team, leading editorial content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eShe has written and edited hundreds of articles about design and technology, and has given talks on the role of content in a weird, digital world. Her work has been published in \u003ci\u003eThe Content Strategist\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eUNDO-Ordinary\u003c/i\u003e magazine and the book \u003ci\u003eAlone Together: Tales of Sisterhood and Solitude in Latin America\u003c/i\u003e (Bogotá International Press).\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003ePreviously, Elizabeth was Communications Manager for UN OCHA’s Centre for Humanitarian Data in The Hague. She is a graduate of the Master’s Programme for Creative Writing at Birkbeck College, University of London.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Host, Design Mind frogcast \u0026 Editorial Director, frog Global Marketing","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":21629,"id":21629,"title":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2","filename":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","filesize":61336,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/12203718/Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/elizabeth-wood/attachment/elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2/","alt":"","author":"22","description":"","caption":"","name":"elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":16815,"date":"2021-03-12 20:37:18","modified":"2021-03-12 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Mind frogcast Ep.62 – The Serious Side of Playful Design ","description":"Our Guest: Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer, frog","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://share.transistor.fm/e/9dac4f12\" width=\"100%\" height=\"180\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast, we\u0026#8217;re exploring the serious side of playful design. To guide us through the conversation, we\u0026#8217;re joined by Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJenny shares why it’s hard work to make things not feel like hard work. We also discuss the role of play in design, how creativity can unlock better experiences and why designing for neurodiversity—like designing for any kind of accessibility—makes it better for everybody.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJenny also speaks about AI, dating apps, and why pulling from a deep well of silliness can help create more human experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode above. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTo find out about the evolving expectations shaping the future of luxury, download frog\u0026#8217;s report, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 62:\u003c/strong\u003e The Serious Side of Playful Design\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuest:\u003c/strong\u003e Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer, frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:04] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we’re talking seriously about the role of play in the workplace. To do this, we’re joined by Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer at frog. Jenny’s path into design wasn\u0026#8217;t a conventional one. From discovering graphic design through a library book in rural Kansas to building a career around creativity, systems thinking and problem solving, Jenny\u0026#8217;s story is shaped by curiosity and a willingness to follow what fascinates her–even if that means being brave enough to get a bit silly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere’s Jenny now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:47] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I love seeing how things are made and I think that that\u0026#8217;s something that most of the projects I get really excited about are those things where I get to kind of understand all the, like, inner logistics and kind of the plumbing of why people are making decisions, why companies are structured the way they are. I don\u0026#8217;t know, I feel like I get to see this is such a boring cliche, but I get to see behind the curtain.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:10] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#8217;m Jenny Savage, and I\u0026#8217;m a Senior Visual Designer at frog. My trajectory from birth to frog — I\u0026#8217;m going way back, when I was in third grade, we had this activity where we had to do a scavenger hunt and then tape all the things we found to a poster board and I thought mine was incredible. I\u0026#8217;m always trying to get an A-plus, but this girl, I think her mother helped her — it was all color coordinated and laid out beautifully. It was all green and pristine and it kind of blew my mind. I didn\u0026#8217;t know that you could do things like that and it really, one, made me angry and then, two, stuck with me. Later, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life and what I wanted to do in college and so my dad put me on to graphic design. I didn\u0026#8217;t know what it was, but my library in my rural Kansas high school had one book called “What is Graphic Design?” and I read it. It had to be like maybe 30 pages long and in the back, it had a local college and I ended up going there. The stars aligned for me just to become a graphic designer and it really matched my way of thinking and the things that I like to do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:18] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I went to a community college, and it was run by women who had left an art school, and so it was really good, but it was only two years. And then when I went back to school, it was for a certificate program at a portfolio school. So, am I educated? Absolutely. But is it also mostly self-taught? I would say, you know, I\u0026#8217;ve learned on the job.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:41] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Not every career move is about climbing the ladder. For Jenny, one important step was learning where she could make her greatest impact.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:48] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I was an associate creative director, and then realized I really got a lot of juice and satisfaction about doing the work, so I jumped back in as a senior designer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:02:56] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I think leadership is a calling and what\u0026#8217;s surprising about going from a making role into a leadership role is it\u0026#8217;s a totally new job and it\u0026#8217;s three jobs and what I really loved about it was that you have so much ability to influence the process, which I really love. But I got really jealous of the teammates that were able to benefit from this new beautiful process and so I learned a lot about myself in the role and what I learned is what I really enjoy is solving the problem and spending the time doing some of the deep work, so the move back was really selfish in a way, because it was just what I loved doing and it\u0026#8217;s what I get a lot of satisfaction out of.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:42] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Behind the humor is a serious belief that creativity thrives when teams feel comfortable enough to experiment, collaborate and play, which sometimes includes getting a clever nickname.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:52] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I love getting a nickname. I was so happy when someone called me the Rainbow Hammer. I could really see myself in it. I\u0026#8217;ve got this, I think, bubbly, disarming personality. At least that\u0026#8217;s what my therapist has told me. And I\u0026#8217;m also really direct. I like to look at the system underneath a design and pick it apart and get really, really crisp, really clear about why we want to do something. So, I used to be brought into other people\u0026#8217;s teams to not necessarily say the hard thing, but just to be another voice to, I think, support sometimes when someone was having a problem, or a problem wasn\u0026#8217;t really—the solution wasn\u0026#8217;t coming together in the right way. So people would bring me in to give feedback, and that\u0026#8217;s where I got that nickname.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn addition to being called the Rainbow Hammer, I\u0026#8217;ve been called the Vibe Mechanic, and more recently, a QuipMaxxer, and I feel like those three kind of tell a similar story of direct communication, but paired with, I think, a nice friendly, goofy energy.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:56] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, having a kind of goofy approach to things can be really difficult, especially in client relationships. I\u0026#8217;ve actually gotten feedback before and I also spend a lot of work on it, because I know that play and energy are a core ingredient of being, one, creative and \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/building-a-culture-of-collaboration\"\u003ecollaborating with other people\u003c/a\u003e. But if you don\u0026#8217;t know me and you don\u0026#8217;t know that, it can appear really flippant and unserious and like you\u0026#8217;re not really there to do the work. So, there is a balance, I think, sometimes that I have to strike. So sometimes there will be a game face or a step back or a little bit of the energy out, but it has to be something that I prepare for and I think that\u0026#8217;s also a big part of being neurodiverse is that you have to be responsible and manage for parts of your personality or approach that might come across in a way that you don\u0026#8217;t necessarily want. And I guess that\u0026#8217;s also design at its core.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:05:55] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/creativity-is-not-a-switch\"\u003eKeeping things playful at work\u003c/a\u003e really is one of my favorite topics and things to talk about. I feel like I\u0026#8217;m bringing it up internally constantly, because if you want good work, generally you need good designers, but if you want great work, those good designers have to be a really strong team and you also need a good process and the thing that all of those have in common is play. Play and creativity and just being soft and goofy, together gives you openness. It gives you good communication and then it kind of opens the door for the creativity. You need to be idiots together to be able to come up with new associations, new ways to solve a problem and it is a great social lubricant. So, I do try to goof up teams as much as I can, but because it can come across as so unserious and silly and we\u0026#8217;re doing really serious work a lot of the time, these things, you know, mean a lot to a lot of people, so I find that it\u0026#8217;s really useful if I compare the goof to a \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/love-company-culture\"\u003eritual\u003c/a\u003e. So, if we\u0026#8217;re doing something like sports points. So instead of complimenting each other, we say you get five sports points. I had a team who kept track of all their sports points, which are absolutely fake things, over the course of like a year, and they had opened up a digital shop of things that you could buy with your sports points. If there\u0026#8217;s a team where we have to have a decision, like two people have very opposing views, I call that Thunderdome. We schedule a meeting, two people come in, one idea leaves, usually it\u0026#8217;s a combination of the two, but by calling it Thunderdome, what a fun energy to bring some combative spirit. I think that\u0026#8217;s a nice framing, because then you get to, like, you know, leverage your energy appropriately.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:35] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e So, my energy, I feel like I pull from a deep well of silliness. Something about being in front of people just gives me all this showboating energy. So, if I want to do deep work, I do need to step aside, find my own little area, get a little zen and then go really deep, and I really do like the deep work, but as far as energy management, I do find that and I think it is in part because of my ADHD, that if I\u0026#8217;m not paying too much attention, I burn out that battery and then when my entire weekend is spent in front of the couch with my dogs playing Power Wash Simulator. So, it is something that I need to be a little bit more careful about, but I think that scheduling can maybe accommodate some of that, which is also something that I like to think a lot about work systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:27] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Designing for people means understanding how they think, collaborate and make decisions. For Jenny, workshops are one of the most powerful ways to unlock those insights and bring teams together around shared ideas.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:38] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I always have loved facilitating workshops. I didn\u0026#8217;t know it was a passion of mine until I came to frog and was able to do it. I did improv in high school, and some musical theatre and something about facilitating a workshop really scratches that itch for me and then I also really love bossing people around. The thing that I really like about workshops is that it takes a rigid structure that we know is going to funnel us into really good work, really good output, like it is very designed to get something specific. But then, the way we go about it is we\u0026#8217;re introducing movement and kind of tactile pieces and play and energy specifically for the client in the room to make sure that we\u0026#8217;re getting it really fast. It is an incredibly beautiful and efficient system, even though it can feel really silly and goofy. When I heard about workshops, when I first joined, they were putting people in hats, we were role-playing, some had wigs, so we don\u0026#8217;t necessarily do that now, but because we\u0026#8217;re all able to be in these shared whiteboards, I think it\u0026#8217;s nice that people now have more agency to be able to move things around, add things that they want, but the trick is taking all that good stuff from the good old pre-Panini days of standing in a room and playing with toys essentially. The trick is going to be taking that and then being able to recreate that in our digital whiteboards. I like to use icebreakers to really get people to open up and like, set the tone. One thing that we do that you can do in any workshop to add a little bit of flavor is, we call it a rose ceremony. So, like, The Bachelor, it\u0026#8217;s really just dot voting, you can just pick a different picture. We\u0026#8217;ve done chickens, we\u0026#8217;ve done golf puns. I think it\u0026#8217;s a really easy way to add a little spirit without any extra work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:10:33] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I love facilitation and I don\u0026#8217;t know why. It just really gives you a chance to see how other people are thinking and catch when they might be stuck in a loop. I used to help my friend design big haunted houses in his garage for a few years and it kind of, facilitating a workshop does feel like designing a haunted house in a way, you need to get people in the door, so it can\u0026#8217;t be too scary and then as they, as they move through it, you really need to kind of think about pacing and when you\u0026#8217;re giving people a break and then when you\u0026#8217;re, when you\u0026#8217;re surprising them with tasks and you don\u0026#8217;t want to, you don\u0026#8217;t want them to be able to see too far into it, so that they know what to expect, but at the same time, it\u0026#8217;s we\u0026#8217;re here for an output. So, you need to give them some assurances that their time is going to be really well spent. It\u0026#8217;s such a fun thing to design for and participate in, but it\u0026#8217;s, oh, it\u0026#8217;s a lot of work. You can spend two weeks on what is two hours, but I always think it\u0026#8217;s worth it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:27] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That balance between structure and creativity also informs Jenny\u0026#8217;s perspective on neurodiversity. Living with ADHD has influenced a lot about how she works, especially how she thinks about designing products, services and experiences for others.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:40] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e Let’s start talking about ADHD. ADHD being the type of neurodiversity I am most familiar with. There\u0026#8217;s a lot of kinds and I\u0026#8217;ve found that it\u0026#8217;s super misunderstood. Do I read about it? Do I read a lot of research? Absolutely, but there\u0026#8217;s still things that people are finding out about it. But what I found in my work life and then doing experiments on the side, is that it\u0026#8217;s actually about interest, not so much distractibility and it\u0026#8217;s about momentum and efficiency. So, it\u0026#8217;s painted as this distractible, messy kind of feeling. But what I found is that it\u0026#8217;s actually whatever is the most interesting thing in the environment is going to get my interest. And if I\u0026#8217;m moving, if I have momentum and I\u0026#8217;m getting something done, I\u0026#8217;m not going to stop to do something else, because I will see something more interesting, and I\u0026#8217;ll move into that. So, if I found that I\u0026#8217;ve had any piles, or a big thing that people talk about with ADHD, it\u0026#8217;s a symptom of the environment, more so than a symptom of me. I\u0026#8217;m trying to move fast, like, there should be a shelf there if there\u0026#8217;s a pile, and I think that that\u0026#8217;s really interesting when we get into designing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:48] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e Designing for neurodiversity is like \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/inclusive-design\"\u003edesigning for any kind of accessibility\u003c/a\u003e, it makes it better for everybody at the end of the day, but I think with ADHD, especially, we need to offload more onto the environment. There needs to be less things that the brain is trying to remember. Decision fatigue is real for everybody and especially with ADHD, it could pull you off into another direction, which is why I always think it\u0026#8217;s funny when we have apps meant for focus or apps meant for different kinds of task management or relief, because you\u0026#8217;re basically putting me into the world\u0026#8217;s most distracting environments to try to keep me focused. So, that\u0026#8217;s one of those behaviors that I think is really funny, and one of the things that\u0026#8217;s maybe misunderstood about ADHD as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:13:33] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e When I\u0026#8217;m designing, I do try to make things really scannable. So, from the first glance you have to have a very clear body language of what is this type of information and what is it going to ask you to do? So, if it\u0026#8217;s a form, it needs to look like a form. If there\u0026#8217;s going to be one action, it needs to look like there\u0026#8217;s going to be one action or someone might completely move on and lose focus. Like, what is it telling me to do? That kind of goes back to that piece of pointiness. Like, how clear is it without reading what I will be doing here? Simplicity as well, I said before, I really like it when people can just delete things and simplify it and there\u0026#8217;s always this idea of added value. If we give more information, that\u0026#8217;s more information. We\u0026#8217;ve done all this work or you might want to know these things and while that is true, more is more. It also means way less focus. So, you are stealing from someone\u0026#8217;s momentum and clarity when you give information that isn\u0026#8217;t crucial to an interaction or a presentation or a deck. I love, I\u0026#8217;m a big purger, I love deleting things for accessibility.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:36] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#8217;s convenient because\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/make-space-for-inclusive-design-in-2020\"\u003e good design for neurodiversity is also good design for design\u0026#8217;s sake\u003c/a\u003e. So, learning late in life that I had ADHD, what a gift to already know about interaction and general design. Recently, on a program, we were working with this investment client and it was a project around retirement savings and goals, but the way that you hear people talk about retirement savings, people don\u0026#8217;t seem to do it and they couldn\u0026#8217;t really seem to figure out why. And when I was reading through it, we realized that they\u0026#8217;re educating around, “Do you know you should save?” Yes, everyone knows that they should save. But why aren\u0026#8217;t people doing it? And I think it was the framing. So, we realized it was actually kind of self-defeating, because it freaks people out. If you ask someone, “Did you remember to save?” the thing that you\u0026#8217;re not saying is, “you\u0026#8217;re going to die, do you have enough death points?” and that\u0026#8217;s really scary. And I think that that\u0026#8217;s the kind of thing that looking at like the core nugget and the behavior that we\u0026#8217;re expecting versus what we\u0026#8217;re saying to kind of find a better entry point is something that I wouldn\u0026#8217;t have been able to do if I hadn\u0026#8217;t spent so much time trying to understand why I am like this with regards to ADHD and behaviors. So, we were able to kind of pivot some of the ideas away from, “are you ready to die” scary to, “how are you using your money to make more meaning in your life,” which one more positive and much more directional, as far as being able to come up with really cool things that you can do for customers and yourself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:16:10] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e We’re going to take a short break. When we return, Jenny will share more about her ultimate dream design project: the dating app.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"id":87898,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","filesize":306311,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87867,"date":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","modified":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-300x287.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":287,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-768x735.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-1024x980.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":613,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","1536X1536Width":1268,"1536X1536Height":1214,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","2048X2048Width":1268,"2048X2048Height":1214}},"description":"Unveiling the expectations of (Ultra) High-Net-Worth Individuals","reportLink":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury","type":"internal"}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:16:48] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Now back to Jenny Savage, Senior Visual Designer at frog. During our conversation, she shared what her dream design project would be.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:16:56] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that social media and dating apps are extremely similar and both terrible in their own special ways. Dating apps, I think it\u0026#8217;s so funny because they\u0026#8217;re so important and they\u0026#8217;re such a vulnerable space and from what I can tell, it\u0026#8217;s kind of the key way that people are meeting each other now, but it is completely not designed to foster any kind of connection.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:20] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I think the design of dating apps, is really funny right now, because it is kind of like the world\u0026#8217;s saddest LinkedIn. It\u0026#8217;s really presenting you with the most inefficient way to hire someone.  I think it could really benefit from some more passive facilitation. So, like the bakery that\u0026#8217;s designed to perfectly time the bread to go into the truck, I really think that that could be more of an inspiration for dating apps, like how are they thinking about the flow, how are they thinking the build-up, how are they thinking of the handoff, like how are they making this environment comfortable, why is texting a regular old text interface. What about that invites any sort of sharing or intimacy or even safety and they all seem to operate on this profile, profile game, and that\u0026#8217;s really strange, because to have a good profile, we are relying on people\u0026#8217;s ability to take good photographs and write well, which, as everybody knows, are classic everyday great skills. We don\u0026#8217;t go to school for that at all.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:18:19] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e If I could redesign them, I do think it would be a dream project, because right now there\u0026#8217;s no shared activity or shared pact. You enter into the space, all these strangers, it feels like you\u0026#8217;re hiring someone. It isn\u0026#8217;t really giving you any sort of passive facilitation that you could just kind of get into and gives you a good start. It\u0026#8217;s entirely cold opens and based on the strength of people being able to write well and take really good photographs. So, in that respect, I do think it is a really interesting place to borrow paradigms and interaction patterns from video games or other places of social media, because it\u0026#8217;s, at the end of the day, I mean, besides human connection, what is there? It\u0026#8217;s really fascinating, and if I had my druthers, I think it would also be a public utility. I think that more social media should be a public utility.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:08] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Whether she\u0026#8217;s exploring internet culture or rethinking digital products, Jenny is ultimately interested in tools that shape how people create and communicate. That naturally leads to questions about \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/by/offering/data-and-ai\"\u003eartificial intelligence\u003c/a\u003e and what it might mean for the future of design.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:22] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I have a lot of feelings about AI, and there is also a lot of services out there, but I primarily just use Midjourney, It\u0026#8217;s my own personal TV show. I love any chance to use it and I bounce between Claude and ChatGPT. What I find is that their personalities will start to annoy me a little bit, so I can swap over to the other one, like a new boyfriend and it also helps me see their patterns and their kind of stylistic choices, which is really nice, because it, it forces me to remember that they\u0026#8217;re not a conversation partner, because you can\u0026#8217;t have a conversation if you\u0026#8217;re not actually talking to anybody. And that it\u0026#8217;s just a nice big auto spell and it will, and that you\u0026#8217;re just searching for a shape, like a prompt is just a search and it\u0026#8217;s like here\u0026#8217;s the kind of shape that we think that you want, but at the end of the day, some of the information will be right and some of the information will be wrong, you only need one really bad slow cooker recipe, I think to remember that, but I think that switching between the two is really helpful for me, because sometimes you read what it gives you and you\u0026#8217;re like, “oh yes, that is it,” but then other times it\u0026#8217;s like, “what are you? What does that mean?”\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:20:30] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the thing that surprises people is that I use it like sports visualization. If I want to do something and I\u0026#8217;m a little nervous, or I don\u0026#8217;t know if it\u0026#8217;ll work out, I ask it to tell me a story about it working out for me and I do that a couple of times, and I\u0026#8217;m like, I can see it, and then I feel really confident about it and I also really like to use it to fold mental models together, which I always think is really interesting, but I do dislike most of the writing that it does. But I really appreciate it can kind of give me the shape of things and I can kind of pick and pick and choose what I want, but I find if I use it too long, my brain turns to absolute mush. I\u0026#8217;m like, “what are words?” So, it\u0026#8217;s super important for me to take breaks from it as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:10] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e AI is such a fascinating space as a designer when we think about all the prototyping tools that are coming out, because it\u0026#8217;s like we\u0026#8217;re taking our hand tools and we\u0026#8217;re saying now it\u0026#8217;s all going to just be language, so we\u0026#8217;ve taken all the clickies out and now it\u0026#8217;s all typey, which is really funny because there\u0026#8217;s that phrase, “a picture is worth a thousand words,” but now we\u0026#8217;re like, what if you described what you wanted in words? It\u0026#8217;s very tricky, and so what I kind of see happening is now that we\u0026#8217;ve been able to abstract the creation of design artifacts by using this kind of magical anything can be auto spelled. It just puts you right in the middle of the pile, right? It\u0026#8217;s not thinking for you, it\u0026#8217;s just like, here\u0026#8217;s kind of a thing, this is what you meant and usually it is. I find that asking it to do that through language is going to be really tricky. I think that the next thing that\u0026#8217;s going to happen is that we\u0026#8217;re able to make tools on top of that again. I keep thinking about having an MS-DOS computer when I was a kid, aiming like C, colon backslash, I don\u0026#8217;t know, snake game or whatever. That’s what AI and language prompts are for me right now. So, I\u0026#8217;m kind of waiting for the new graphics user interface, and I think it\u0026#8217;s going to be really exciting. I would love to have more things that I can touch and things that I can move. It\u0026#8217;s just better. It\u0026#8217;s better for my brain as a neurodiverse person. \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/reconnecting-through-movement\"\u003eAnd I think just people in general want to use their bodies\u003c/a\u003e. It\u0026#8217;s so much better for you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:22:33] Jenny Savage:\u003c/strong\u003e And one other thing that I think is really interesting about just imagining the future of these AI tools is who owns them, in a way, they\u0026#8217;re very personal, the way I use Mid Journey and Claude, they learn from me, so they\u0026#8217;re very much my tools. It feels like I\u0026#8217;m raising a partner and so if  the memory of how I want it to use it and how it even responds to me is owned by someone else, what does that mean for me? It feels like it\u0026#8217;s something closer to like a pet dog or even my school time. It\u0026#8217;s something that I\u0026#8217;m responsible for bringing to a workplace. So, it\u0026#8217;s really interesting if the workplace owns something that I\u0026#8217;m essentially growing like a, like a potted plant or a puppy. It\u0026#8217;s hard work to make things not feel like, like hard work, but it\u0026#8217;s really important to me, because I think that it, it just makes everything so much easier, and at the end of the day, it makes the work better.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:29] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and more from our conversation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:20] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e We really want to thank our guest, Jenny Savage, senior visual designer at frog, for sharing her curiosity, insights and unique approach to design. We also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eand Spotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"slug":"jenny-savage","authorName":"Jenny Savage","bio":"\u003cp\u003eJenny Savage is a Senior Visual Designer and creative thinker at frog, where she’s spent more than a decade bringing together design strategy, storytelling, systems thinking, facilitation and emerging AI capabilities. She specializes in turning complex ideas into clear, human-centered experiences and helping teams move from vision to action. Curious and playful by nature, Jenny loves exploring neurodiversity and sharing POVs, mental models and unexpected connections that help people see familiar problems differently. She’s equally at home facilitating workshops, shaping design systems and visual identities or making comics in her spare time.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Senior Visual Designer, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":88136,"title":"jenny savage headshot","filename":"jenny-savage-headshot.png","filesize":660940,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jenny-savage/attachment/jenny-savage-headshot/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jenny-savage-headshot","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":88134,"date":"2026-08-06 19:24:59","modified":"2026-08-06 19:24:59","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":979,"height":1024,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot-287x300.png","mediumWidth":287,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot-768x803.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":669,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":669,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot.png","1536X1536Width":979,"1536X1536Height":1024,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/jenny-savage-headshot.png","2048X2048Width":979,"2048X2048Height":1024}}},{"slug":"elizabeth-wood","authorName":"Elizabeth Wood","bio":"\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eElizabeth tells design stories for frog. She first joined the New York studio in 2011, working on multidisciplinary teams to design award-winning products and services. Today, Elizabeth works out of the London studio on the global frog marketing team, leading editorial content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eShe has written and edited hundreds of articles about design and technology, and has given talks on the role of content in a weird, digital world. Her work has been published in \u003ci\u003eThe Content Strategist\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eUNDO-Ordinary\u003c/i\u003e magazine and the book \u003ci\u003eAlone Together: Tales of Sisterhood and Solitude in Latin America\u003c/i\u003e (Bogotá International Press).\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003ePreviously, Elizabeth was Communications Manager for UN OCHA’s Centre for Humanitarian Data in The Hague. She is a graduate of the Master’s Programme for Creative Writing at Birkbeck College, University of London.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Host, Design Mind frogcast \u0026 Editorial Director, frog Global Marketing","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":21629,"title":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2","filename":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","filesize":61336,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/12203718/Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/elizabeth-wood/attachment/elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2/","alt":"","author":"22","description":"","caption":"","name":"elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":16815,"date":"2021-03-12 20:37:18","modified":"2021-03-12 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18:03:15","modified":"2026-08-06 18:03:15","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/why-being-found-no-longer-wins-header.gif","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":58,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/why-being-found-no-longer-wins-header.gif","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/why-being-found-no-longer-wins-header.gif","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/why-being-found-no-longer-wins-header.gif","large-width":640,"large-height":245,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/why-being-found-no-longer-wins-header.gif","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":552,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/why-being-found-no-longer-wins-header.gif","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":552}},"video_file":false,"title":"Why Being Found No Longer Wins","description":"How is AI reshaping discovery—and why must brands pivot to designing to be chosen?","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003ePreviously, visibility was the goal. Now it’s the baseline.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor years, the focus has been on brand discovery. Entire marketing ecosystems were built around being searchable, rankable and easy to find. Visibility was the proxy for success. That logic is breaking down fast.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAlgorithms optimized for AI (GEO, AEO) now determine which brands appear, how they are framed and whether they seem credible—all this is before a customer ever engages directly. In the current reality, being found is no longer a competitive advantage. It is simply the cost of entry. When systems shape the shortlist, brands are not competing to be seen. They are competing to be selected. And very few are currently designing for that. Here’s how to move from visible to chosen.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eThe uncomfortable truth: brands are losing control\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs discovery becomes increasingly mediated, brands lose control over when and how they first appear. You don’t control the moment of introduction, the framing or who you’re being compared against.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAlgorithms decide what surfaces. Systems determine what is “best.” For many organizations, this feels like a loss of influence, but it is more accurate to see it as a shift in where influence happens. The window has moved upstream—into experience, culture and memories people carry before they ever open a search bar. That’s why the question is no longer how to be visible, but how to be worth choosing at the key moment.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Discovery didn’t disappear. It moved.","description":"What used to be a sequence of search, browse and compare has collapsed into a single question-and-answer interaction. Between the question being asked and the answer being given sits a powerful, largely invisible layer. \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/next-gen-ux-from-apps-to-natural-language\" style=\"text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold;\"\u003eAI systems\u003c/a\u003e interpret intent, filter options and construct responses that prepackage reality for the user. Discovery is no longer something customers actively navigate. Instead, it happens on their behalf. We have identified three shifts that reshape what this means for brands.","numbered_sections":[{"title":"From keywords to answers","content":"\u003cp\u003eSearch is evolving from a system of keywords into a system of dialogue ushering in a new era of AI-driven discovery. Instead of presenting lists of links, AI delivers synthesized answers that compress comparison, evaluation and recommendation into a single response.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt is no longer enough to rank on a page. Instead, brands must be embedded in the answer itself. If the interface is the answer, your brand must be legible to machines through AI search visibility optimization before it can be meaningful to people. This is the shift toward generative discovery: from optimizing for clicks to designing for representation.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Culture sets the agenda before search even begins ","content":"\u003cp\u003eBy the time someone searches, the decision is already half made. Social platforms, creators and cultural moments define what feels desirable, relevant and worth considering, often weeks or months before intent is formed.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor younger audiences especially, discovery isn’t just informational, but emotional and social. TikTok is a search engine, Instagram is a discovery layer, Reddit shapes purchase decisions in categories ranging from skincare to software. These are not secondary channels, they are where preference is built.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI may deliver the answer, but culture determines what gets asked.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"When discovery executes itself","content":"\u003cp\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment\"\u003eagentic commerce\u003c/a\u003e, discovery no longer ends in a decision but in a transaction. Autonomous systems interpret intent, evaluate options and complete purchases on the user’s behalf.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen an \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003eagent\u003c/a\u003e becomes the shopper, the focus shifts from persuasion to selection. That selection is shaped not by campaigns, but by the structured signals your brand has been emitting for years.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs discovery executes itself, brands are no longer competing for attention but instead for default selection in environments where humans may never see most of the alternatives. Rather than designing journeys for people, the challenge becomes \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-ai-empowered-marketer\"\u003edesigning\u003c/a\u003e how your brand is interpreted and represented by systems that increasingly speak for you.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eFrom frictionless to forgettable: designing for the conscious override\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn highly optimized environments, something interesting happens. Sometimes people actively choose to deviate from what is recommended. They see the \u0026#8220;best\u0026#8221; option and still think, “I want this one instead.”\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe call this the \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/insights/research-library/human-led-ai-powered-cx-transformation/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eConscious Override Rate\u003c/a\u003e: the frequency with which customers intentionally choose your brand over an algorithmically recommended alternative. It is not a measure of satisfaction or loyalty in the traditional sense, but a measure of whether your brand has built enough meaning to prompt an intentional choice to override the default.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eWhat builds a high Conscious Override Rate\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOverride is earned upstream through the accumulation of experiences that create genuine emotional distinction. Three drivers come into play here:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eIdentity alignment\u003c/em\u003e. Customers override when a brand feels like an extension of who they are or who they want to be. This goes beyond demographics to create meaning. Brands that anchor to a coherent point of view create a sense of belonging that algorithms cannot easily replicate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eAccumulated trust\u003c/em\u003e. Trust built over time through consistent experiences, transparent communication and visible advocacy creates an emotional buffer against pure optimization. When a system suggests a better deal elsewhere, trusted brands benefit from a kind of inertia that is actually active loyalty in disguise.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eMemorable distinctiveness\u003c/em\u003e. Experiences that are genuinely surprising, playful or human in character create the kind of memory structures that survive mediation. Not every touchpoint needs to do this, but enough of them must.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eWhat erodes it\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOverride rates collapse when brands optimize for efficiency at the expense of meaning. Businesses will not gain a competitive advantage when every interaction is frictionless but forgettable, when the brand\u0026#8217;s only story is convenience or price, or when it tells the same story every competitor can tell and every AI can optimize.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf your customers consistently follow algorithmic recommendations without hesitation, the signal is clear: your brand has been reduced to a functional option inside someone else\u0026#8217;s system. Optimization in that scenario does not create advantage, it accelerates commoditization because the same data that helps you compete also helps systems replace you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eIndustry examples that earn the override\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/insights/research-library/human-led-ai-powered-cx-transformation/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e\u003cem\u003eRetail: Sephora\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThrough initiatives like Beauty Insider Challenges, Sephora extends its relationship far beyond the transaction. It creates participatory, playful experiences that turn engagement into something genuinely memorable. Rather than pushing customers toward a decision, these experiences shape the memory that informs future ones. They make customers feel “this is for me”—and that feeling is what survives algorithmic mediation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-49-building-the-future-of-loyalty\"\u003e\u003cem\u003eConsumer Products: LEGO\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLEGO\u0026#8217;s membership ecosystem is designed around long-term participation rather than transactions alone. By creating a sense of belonging, shared identity, and ongoing engagement, the brand strengthens customer relationships beyond functional product choice. These experiences create memories and emotional attachment that influence future decisions, making LEGO more resilient to purely rational comparison.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eSo, how do you get chosen?\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eYou are now operating across two fundamentally different systems. Machines require clarity, consistency and structured signals to surface and represent your brand accurately. Humans require meaning, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience\"\u003eemotional resonance\u003c/a\u003e and a reason to choose you over what the algorithm suggests.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDesigning for one without the other is no longer viable. If machines cannot interpret your brand, you may never appear. Meanwhile, if people do not connect with it, appearance won\u0026#8217;t matter.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePresence is earned through structure and machine-readable signals and AI search visibility. Preference is earned through experience, memory and emotional resonance. The first gets you into consideration; the second determines whether you get chosen. It is a harder design problem than most organizations are currently solving for. But it is the one that determines whether your brand survives the next five years of AI-mediated commerce.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":87835,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-07-16 18:28:45","post_date_gmt":"2026-07-16 18:28:45","post_content":"","post_title":"Eline Persons","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"eline-persons","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-07-16 18:31:15","post_modified_gmt":"2026-07-16 18:31:15","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=87835","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Eline Persons","bio":"\u003cp\u003eEline is a Managing Consultant specializing in customer experience strategy, loyalty and customer transformation. She helps organizations uncover what matters most to customers and translate those insights into strategies that drive growth, engagement and long-term value. Combining analytical rigor with human-centered design, Eline is passionate about solving complex business challenges through creative problem-solving and customer-centric thinking.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Manager CX Strategy, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":87837,"id":87837,"title":"Eline-Persons-author","filename":"Eline-Persons-author.jpg","filesize":118999,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/eline-persons/attachment/eline-persons-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"eline-persons-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87835,"date":"2026-07-16 18:30:48","modified":"2026-07-16 18:30:48","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":600,"height":600,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","medium_large-width":600,"medium_large-height":600,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","large-width":600,"large-height":600,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","1536x1536-width":600,"1536x1536-height":600,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","2048x2048-width":600,"2048x2048-height":600}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/eline-persons/"},{"ID":87845,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-07-16 18:32:26","post_date_gmt":"2026-07-16 18:32:26","post_content":"","post_title":"Celeke Siemerink","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"celeke-siemerink","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-07-16 18:33:34","post_modified_gmt":"2026-07-16 18:33:34","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=87845","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Celeke Siemerink","bio":"\u003cp\u003eCeleke is a Senior Consultant specializing in customer transformation, service design and AI adoption. 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Combining human-centered design with a hands-on, execution-driven approach, Celeke focuses on driving adoption, enabling change and making AI work in real-world contexts.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Senior Consultant CX Strategy, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":87847,"id":87847,"title":"Celeke-Siemerink-author","filename":"Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","filesize":181444,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/celeke-siemerink/attachment/celeke-siemerink-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"celeke-siemerink-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87845,"date":"2026-07-16 18:33:20","modified":"2026-07-16 18:33:20","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":600,"height":600,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","medium_large-width":600,"medium_large-height":600,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","large-width":600,"large-height":600,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","1536x1536-width":600,"1536x1536-height":600,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","2048x2048-width":600,"2048x2048-height":600}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/celeke-siemerink/"},{"ID":87855,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-07-16 18:34:43","post_date_gmt":"2026-07-16 18:34:43","post_content":"","post_title":"Richa Baldewpersad Tewarie","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"richa-baldewpersad-tewarie","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-07-16 18:35:56","post_modified_gmt":"2026-07-16 18:35:56","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=87855","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Richa Baldewpersad Tewarie","bio":"\u003cp\u003eRicha is a Senior Consultant specializing in marketing and brand experiences. 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Being Found No Longer Wins","description":"How is AI reshaping discovery—and why must brands pivot to designing to be chosen?","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003ePreviously, visibility was the goal. Now it’s the baseline.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor years, the focus has been on brand discovery. Entire marketing ecosystems were built around being searchable, rankable and easy to find. Visibility was the proxy for success. That logic is breaking down fast.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAlgorithms optimized for AI (GEO, AEO) now determine which brands appear, how they are framed and whether they seem credible—all this is before a customer ever engages directly. In the current reality, being found is no longer a competitive advantage. It is simply the cost of entry. When systems shape the shortlist, brands are not competing to be seen. They are competing to be selected. And very few are currently designing for that. Here’s how to move from visible to chosen.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eThe uncomfortable truth: brands are losing control\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs discovery becomes increasingly mediated, brands lose control over when and how they first appear. You don’t control the moment of introduction, the framing or who you’re being compared against.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAlgorithms decide what surfaces. Systems determine what is “best.” For many organizations, this feels like a loss of influence, but it is more accurate to see it as a shift in where influence happens. The window has moved upstream—into experience, culture and memories people carry before they ever open a search bar. That’s why the question is no longer how to be visible, but how to be worth choosing at the key moment.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Discovery didn’t disappear. It moved.","description":"What used to be a sequence of search, browse and compare has collapsed into a single question-and-answer interaction. Between the question being asked and the answer being given sits a powerful, largely invisible layer. \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/next-gen-ux-from-apps-to-natural-language\" style=\"text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold;\"\u003eAI systems\u003c/a\u003e interpret intent, filter options and construct responses that prepackage reality for the user. Discovery is no longer something customers actively navigate. Instead, it happens on their behalf. We have identified three shifts that reshape what this means for brands.","numberedSections":[{"title":"From keywords to answers","content":"\u003cp\u003eSearch is evolving from a system of keywords into a system of dialogue ushering in a new era of AI-driven discovery. Instead of presenting lists of links, AI delivers synthesized answers that compress comparison, evaluation and recommendation into a single response.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt is no longer enough to rank on a page. Instead, brands must be embedded in the answer itself. If the interface is the answer, your brand must be legible to machines through AI search visibility optimization before it can be meaningful to people. This is the shift toward generative discovery: from optimizing for clicks to designing for representation.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Culture sets the agenda before search even begins ","content":"\u003cp\u003eBy the time someone searches, the decision is already half made. Social platforms, creators and cultural moments define what feels desirable, relevant and worth considering, often weeks or months before intent is formed.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor younger audiences especially, discovery isn’t just informational, but emotional and social. TikTok is a search engine, Instagram is a discovery layer, Reddit shapes purchase decisions in categories ranging from skincare to software. These are not secondary channels, they are where preference is built.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI may deliver the answer, but culture determines what gets asked.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"When discovery executes itself","content":"\u003cp\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment\"\u003eagentic commerce\u003c/a\u003e, discovery no longer ends in a decision but in a transaction. Autonomous systems interpret intent, evaluate options and complete purchases on the user’s behalf.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen an \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003eagent\u003c/a\u003e becomes the shopper, the focus shifts from persuasion to selection. That selection is shaped not by campaigns, but by the structured signals your brand has been emitting for years.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs discovery executes itself, brands are no longer competing for attention but instead for default selection in environments where humans may never see most of the alternatives. Rather than designing journeys for people, the challenge becomes \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-ai-empowered-marketer\"\u003edesigning\u003c/a\u003e how your brand is interpreted and represented by systems that increasingly speak for you.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eFrom frictionless to forgettable: designing for the conscious override\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn highly optimized environments, something interesting happens. Sometimes people actively choose to deviate from what is recommended. They see the \u0026#8220;best\u0026#8221; option and still think, “I want this one instead.”\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe call this the \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/insights/research-library/human-led-ai-powered-cx-transformation/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eConscious Override Rate\u003c/a\u003e: the frequency with which customers intentionally choose your brand over an algorithmically recommended alternative. It is not a measure of satisfaction or loyalty in the traditional sense, but a measure of whether your brand has built enough meaning to prompt an intentional choice to override the default.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eWhat builds a high Conscious Override Rate\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOverride is earned upstream through the accumulation of experiences that create genuine emotional distinction. Three drivers come into play here:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eIdentity alignment\u003c/em\u003e. Customers override when a brand feels like an extension of who they are or who they want to be. This goes beyond demographics to create meaning. Brands that anchor to a coherent point of view create a sense of belonging that algorithms cannot easily replicate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eAccumulated trust\u003c/em\u003e. Trust built over time through consistent experiences, transparent communication and visible advocacy creates an emotional buffer against pure optimization. When a system suggests a better deal elsewhere, trusted brands benefit from a kind of inertia that is actually active loyalty in disguise.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eMemorable distinctiveness\u003c/em\u003e. Experiences that are genuinely surprising, playful or human in character create the kind of memory structures that survive mediation. Not every touchpoint needs to do this, but enough of them must.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eWhat erodes it\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOverride rates collapse when brands optimize for efficiency at the expense of meaning. Businesses will not gain a competitive advantage when every interaction is frictionless but forgettable, when the brand\u0026#8217;s only story is convenience or price, or when it tells the same story every competitor can tell and every AI can optimize.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf your customers consistently follow algorithmic recommendations without hesitation, the signal is clear: your brand has been reduced to a functional option inside someone else\u0026#8217;s system. Optimization in that scenario does not create advantage, it accelerates commoditization because the same data that helps you compete also helps systems replace you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eIndustry examples that earn the override\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/insights/research-library/human-led-ai-powered-cx-transformation/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e\u003cem\u003eRetail: Sephora\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThrough initiatives like Beauty Insider Challenges, Sephora extends its relationship far beyond the transaction. It creates participatory, playful experiences that turn engagement into something genuinely memorable. Rather than pushing customers toward a decision, these experiences shape the memory that informs future ones. They make customers feel “this is for me”—and that feeling is what survives algorithmic mediation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-49-building-the-future-of-loyalty\"\u003e\u003cem\u003eConsumer Products: LEGO\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLEGO\u0026#8217;s membership ecosystem is designed around long-term participation rather than transactions alone. By creating a sense of belonging, shared identity, and ongoing engagement, the brand strengthens customer relationships beyond functional product choice. These experiences create memories and emotional attachment that influence future decisions, making LEGO more resilient to purely rational comparison.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eSo, how do you get chosen?\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eYou are now operating across two fundamentally different systems. Machines require clarity, consistency and structured signals to surface and represent your brand accurately. Humans require meaning, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience\"\u003eemotional resonance\u003c/a\u003e and a reason to choose you over what the algorithm suggests.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDesigning for one without the other is no longer viable. If machines cannot interpret your brand, you may never appear. Meanwhile, if people do not connect with it, appearance won\u0026#8217;t matter.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePresence is earned through structure and machine-readable signals and AI search visibility. Preference is earned through experience, memory and emotional resonance. The first gets you into consideration; the second determines whether you get chosen. It is a harder design problem than most organizations are currently solving for. But it is the one that determines whether your brand survives the next five years of AI-mediated commerce.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"eline-persons","authorName":"Eline Persons","bio":"\u003cp\u003eEline is a Managing Consultant specializing in customer experience strategy, loyalty and customer transformation. She helps organizations uncover what matters most to customers and translate those insights into strategies that drive growth, engagement and long-term value. Combining analytical rigor with human-centered design, Eline is passionate about solving complex business challenges through creative problem-solving and customer-centric thinking.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Manager CX Strategy, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":87837,"title":"Eline-Persons-author","filename":"Eline-Persons-author.jpg","filesize":118999,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/eline-persons/attachment/eline-persons-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"eline-persons-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87835,"date":"2026-07-16 18:30:48","modified":"2026-07-16 18:30:48","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":600,"height":600,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":600,"mediumLargeHeight":600,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","largeWidth":600,"largeHeight":600,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":600,"1536X1536Height":600,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Eline-Persons-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":600,"2048X2048Height":600}}},{"slug":"celeke-siemerink","authorName":"Celeke Siemerink","bio":"\u003cp\u003eCeleke is a Senior Consultant specializing in customer transformation, service design and AI adoption. She helps organizations bridge the gap between emerging technology and everyday use by translating innovation into clear, practical and user-centered applications. Combining human-centered design with a hands-on, execution-driven approach, Celeke focuses on driving adoption, enabling change and making AI work in real-world contexts.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Senior Consultant CX Strategy, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":87847,"title":"Celeke-Siemerink-author","filename":"Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","filesize":181444,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/celeke-siemerink/attachment/celeke-siemerink-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"celeke-siemerink-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87845,"date":"2026-07-16 18:33:20","modified":"2026-07-16 18:33:20","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":600,"height":600,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":600,"mediumLargeHeight":600,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","largeWidth":600,"largeHeight":600,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":600,"1536X1536Height":600,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Celeke-Siemerink-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":600,"2048X2048Height":600}}},{"slug":"richa-baldewpersad-tewarie","authorName":"Richa Baldewpersad Tewarie","bio":"\u003cp\u003eRicha is a Senior Consultant specializing in marketing and brand experiences. She helps organizations create impactful experiences that brings brands and audiences together in meaningful ways. By combining customer understanding with strategic thinking, Richa develops activations and engagement strategies that strengthen brand connections, inspire action and create lasting impact.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Senior Consultant CX Strategy, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":87857,"title":"Richa-Baldewpersad-Tewarie-author","filename":"Richa-Baldewpersad-Tewarie-author.jpg","filesize":124235,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Richa-Baldewpersad-Tewarie-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/richa-baldewpersad-tewarie/attachment/richa-baldewpersad-tewarie-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"richa-baldewpersad-tewarie-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87855,"date":"2026-07-16 18:35:42","modified":"2026-07-16 18:35:42","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":600,"height":600,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Richa-Baldewpersad-Tewarie-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Richa-Baldewpersad-Tewarie-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Richa-Baldewpersad-Tewarie-author.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":600,"mediumLargeHeight":600,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Richa-Baldewpersad-Tewarie-author.jpg","largeWidth":600,"largeHeight":600,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Richa-Baldewpersad-Tewarie-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":600,"1536X1536Height":600,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Richa-Baldewpersad-Tewarie-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":600,"2048X2048Height":600}}}]},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true}],"ifRelated":{"image":{"id":88117,"title":"why-being-found-no-longer-wins-share_image","filename":"why-being-found-no-longer-wins-share_image.jpg","filesize":291528,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/why-being-found-no-longer-wins-share_image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/why-being-found-no-longer-wins/attachment/why-being-found-no-longer-wins-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"why-being-found-no-longer-wins-share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87833,"date":"2026-08-06 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Being Found No Longer Wins","url":"/designmind/why-being-found-no-longer-wins"},"featuredArticles":{"eyebrow":"Related work","useHomeData":false,"articles":[{"title":"The Atomic Marketing Organization","description":"Article","image":{"id":87684,"title":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_share-image","filename":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_share-image.jpg","filesize":179222,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_share-image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-atomic-marketing-organization/attachment/atomic-marketing-organization_share-image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"atomic-marketing-organization_share-image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87598,"date":"2026-07-03 18:32:52","modified":"2026-07-03 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12:24:07","modified":"2026-07-23 12:24:07","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":2880,"height":1104,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-300x115.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-768x294.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-1024x393.png","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-1536x589.png","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":589,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-2048x785.png","2048x2048-width":2048,"2048x2048-height":785}},"video_file":false,"title":"Design Mind frogcast Ep.61 – The New Lines of Luxury","description":"Our Guests: Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026 Lifestyle, Accor; Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director, frog; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury, frog; Caroline Le Bars, Vice President, frog","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eWhat does \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury\"\u003eluxury\u003c/a\u003e really mean in a world that\u0026#8217;s constantly redefining itself? In this episode, frog Managing Director Gagandeep Gadri sits down with Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog, to unpack the findings from frog\u0026#8217;s latest research: a deep dive into the minds of more than 5,000 high-net-worth and ultra-high-net-worth individuals worldwide. \u003cspan data-teams=\"true\"\u003eThen, frog VP Caroline Le Bars sits down with Agnès Roquefort, Global Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor to explore what these trends mean for hospitality, from branded residences to the reimagined Orient Express. It\u0026#8217;s a rich look at where luxury is headed next.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode below. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://share.transistor.fm/e/13c16410\" width=\"100%\" height=\"180\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 61:\u003c/strong\u003e The New Lines of Luxury\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuests:\u003c/strong\u003e Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle, Accor; Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director, frog; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury, frog; Caroline Le Bars, Vice President, frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e[00:00:03] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/b\u003eWelcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we\u0026#8217;re exploring what luxury really means in a world that\u0026#8217;s constantly redefining it. You’re going to hear a conversation hosted by Gagandeep Gadri, the Managing Director of frog, with three guests: Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer for Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor, Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog and Caroline Le Bars, Vice President at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor our panelists, luxury today is less about status and more about substance; what feels considered, what feels rare and how brands build trust through experience rather than excess. Their new report, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e, unpacks these shifts across the sector, with a special focus on hospitality and what Agnès is seeing firsthand at Accor. You can find a link to the full report and more in our show notes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut first, let’s jump in.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:43] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWelcome everyone and thank you so much for joining. My name is Gagandeep Gadri. I am the Managing Director of frog, part of Capgemini Invent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt frog, we work with our clients to do two things:\u003cbr /\u003e\nOne is reinventing the future; how to unleash growth through new products, services and experiences.\u003cbr /\u003e\nSecond, how to deliver that growth by creating the best customer experience with real focus on the customer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd that\u0026#8217;s what we did last year. Last year we really went deep into the luxury customer, where we spoke to thousands of high-net-worth individuals to understand what they buy, why and what they\u0026#8217;re looking for. With the world changing so quickly, technology — Agentic AI — is just making so many changes. We decided to go back to that research and talk to those consumers again, finding out what they are looking for, not only in what they buy, but also what they expect in 2030.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd so, today, we\u0026#8217;re going to be sharing with you the latest findings from that research. The key thing that came out was very much around: it\u0026#8217;s not about technology and emotion, but how do we deliver even more immersive, better experiences that showcase the emotion, leveraging technology.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI\u0026#8217;m super pleased to have Anne-Laure join me today. She heads the luxury platform at frog. Anne-Laure, tell us a little bit more about the research we did and what everyone can look forward to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:41] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eGood afternoon and thank you for joining. I will begin with the incredible size of our panel this year. We have been able to be in interaction with more than 5000 individuals — from high-net-worth to ultra-high-net-worth individuals.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe New Lines of Luxury is the brand of our report, but this year we have spotted five new lines. The first one is called The Revenge of Retail and we will dive deep in one minute on it. The second one, The Elevation of Luxury. Then a very specific one, a bit fun, because this is a comeback to the original promise of luxury, we call this trend Enduring Value, not the lasting value of luxury products or experiences. Beauty shifts — beauty changes so quickly. And finally, going a bit deeper into 2030 and beyond, a more prospective trend around Lifespan, Robotics and New Frontiers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGagandeep, can you tell us a few words about the Revenge of Retail?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:34] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, let\u0026#8217;s dive straight into here. So, the Revenge of Retail, you know, the last 20 years or so, there\u0026#8217;s been a huge amount of spending in digital apps, websites, digital commerce; the store and the physical space have been a little bit forgotten about. But now, we want to return to that. That\u0026#8217;s what this is about. It\u0026#8217;s the Revenge of Retail, returning to the physical space but not just as it was before. It\u0026#8217;s got to be in the new way, as an innovation lab, as something where the real feeling of the brand, the essence of the brand, can be seen. When we look at these boutiques or these physical spaces, it\u0026#8217;s all physical touchpoints, so it could be full boutique, it could be the dealership, could be the lobby of a hotel, could be where a private wealth banking meeting happens. These are all areas that are out there to get this new physical experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut what consumers want is when they go to these places, they want to have a different experience, because what they can do through digital and their apps, they don\u0026#8217;t want to be able to do when they get into the physical space. They want something different. They want you to stimulate them. They want to have an experience. They want to get closer to the brand. But really importantly, they don\u0026#8217;t want the same experience from every touchpoint that they go to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor example, in a five-star hotel in Paris and then one in London, they expect some similarity, but what they\u0026#8217;re also looking for is the differences — the local nuances to come into that space as well because why else would they want to keep on going to these spaces if they don\u0026#8217;t get that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen we talk about innovation and technology, it\u0026#8217;s not about having more screens and more digital stuff. It\u0026#8217;s about really using it to help bring the emotion across in a seamless way, make the experience better, more interesting for the consumers as well. So, how do we leverage physical AI, but in a really seamless way to help the consumer and to help the people working in those boutiques do their job better?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, as a brand, how do you activate this and I think there are three things that we look at:\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe first one is reimagining the beauty boutique as a stage. This is really important. It\u0026#8217;s about a performance; it\u0026#8217;s about a moment to Make Your Mark. How do you do that? How do you get the core of the brand to resonate in this physical space and create a really really exciting moment?\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe second is yes, embed AI, but as a seamless, effortless part of the overall journey and experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe final part here is, how can we use it as a hub, bringing people together, not just at the start of a transaction, not at the end of a transaction, maybe when something goes wrong, but ongoing to really create a community and really build loyalty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, I think these are three things that will help those maisons really reconnect into a physical space. Anne-Laure, tell us about the next thing we found out.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:10:36] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, we\u0026#8217;ll talk about now the Elevation of Luxury and you just mentioned Gagandeep, the fact that someone you know traveling from the UK to France, for example, can stay in the same hotel in terms of brand, not the same place and want the same standard, the expectation of experiences, but not exactly the same experience to be sure that it feels something different, emotionally speaking, in London and in Paris, for example, this is where the elevation of luxury happened, because this is deeply rooted to emotion, expectation of self-enhancement and development and this trend explained that from only, you know , a transactional relationship between brands and customer, we have now to develop what we call the transformative luxury. Luxury becomes a vehicle for who people aspire to become. Tell me what you spend and I will tell you who you are, it\u0026#8217;s really close to the identity of people. For example, 36% of our panel want a real cultural or spiritual dimension in their luxury consumption and 81% — this is a huge number — are seeking freedom in their luxury consumption. You know, a few years ago, talking with metaphysical words about luxury, we earned a lot. Luxury is time, ultimate luxury is space, it\u0026#8217;s love. Now it\u0026#8217;s really freedom, self-development. So, there is really a huge trend within this elevation of luxury.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf we go further, elevated luxury also means that as a customer you want to have the opportunity to be in relation with luxury anytime, anywhere and any way. For example, 79% of our panel is asking for on-demand luxury that it can access anywhere and everywhere. This is quite new. Remember, a lot of maisons made some kind of pushback about having a 24/7 expectation in relation with their client. But the clients are asking for it, not in replacement to their personal advisor but in addition to them. Another key figure is that 55% of the panel is expecting for hyper personalized conciergerie and not only in hospitality. Really, for every brand, for a wealth management company to an automotive retailer, they want to have this opportunity to engage conversation really on demand with extra and personalized services.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHow to activate it? We have to move from transaction to transformation and understand what does it mean in terms of customer journey. Secondly, deliver on-demand experiences. This is not only words, it means that for sure you have to prepare really consistent technological assets and background to be sure that you can operate it properly and finally you have to open up to sales development spaces, new frontier and real business development to offer new possibility to your clients. We\u0026#8217;ll talk now about the Enduring Value and come back to the original premise of luxury.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:28] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, this one is really important. How do you connect back to the heritage of the brand, right? The real craft, the trust, the timelessness of that brand you have. You know, some clients have been questioning prices have been going up for luxury brands and the real answer here is for brands to connect back to the real purpose, that real heritage of the brand. The first thing that we really see here is that, you know it\u0026#8217;s an investment. 77% of our consumers we spoke to said luxury is an investment and that\u0026#8217;s a really big number and they have a massive expectation that it\u0026#8217;s actually going to retain or grow in value. That\u0026#8217;s their perception of what they think they\u0026#8217;re getting into. It\u0026#8217;s not a niche collector mindset, you can see it\u0026#8217;s across all geographies. India and Japan had the highest expectation, while China had the lowest one in this area.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe wealthier the respondent, the higher the expectation they had. So, this is really important about the ongoing value of that product. Now, we see a massive opportunity actually. This opportunity is in the ongoing relationship you can have — the ongoing sales care, the ongoing connection you can make with the brand. So, how can you extend the life of the product? Maybe there\u0026#8217;s some more aftercare services, there\u0026#8217;s more some add-on products, there\u0026#8217;s about the digital traceability of it, get more information, a digital footprint of the product. This is super important and valuable when you\u0026#8217;re going to hand the product over as well. And the product continues its life that you\u0026#8217;ve got this traceability, you\u0026#8217;ve got access to all of this other information.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, how do you activate this enduring value? Take care at the core of the of the product strategy. I think this is super important. Not just the product itself, but the extra things around it that we can put to give that consumer a longer, better experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second bit is really building that trust through transparency. So, how through maybe a digital footprint, more digital information, digital asset, you can give more information, traceability around the project. When sustainability is a growing topic, you know, that\u0026#8217;s going to become more and more important for clients to see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut the final one is really key here. It\u0026#8217;s to embrace circularity. What we\u0026#8217;re seeing is so many different marketplaces coming up where people are reselling their luxury product. But if in that second purchase and the third purchase it\u0026#8217;s the enduring value that is really important. As a brand, you need to own that, you should own and embrace circularity, so that when these products get resold, the value of those products, the story of that product, that belongs to you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI was actually recently in Italy, in Bologna and I went to the Pagani garage and there, when you buy a car, they can\u0026#8217;t resell it. You have to resell it back to Pagani so they can own that story, own the value of the product. And I think that is super important for them in the value of their brand in order to go forward and maybe something to learn on. Anne-Laure, why don\u0026#8217;t you tell us about the fourth line.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:41] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eThe fourth line is the Beauty Shift and it makes me feel listening to you that now the luxury consumer is really mature, you know, worldwide. New expectations are also driven by the fact that this is not a new kind of consumption, especially for the high-net-worths and the ultra-high-net-worths. And it\u0026#8217;s true also, regarding beauty, that is probably the segment that is still growing but shifting the most. The fun fact, before deep diving into this beauty shift, is that we had a lot of quotes, a lot of verbatim from the individuals in our panel and regarding beauty, we obtain a lot of quotes from men.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, first of all, beauty is not a woman topic, not at all.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSecondly, the shift, if I have to summarize it, is we came from a world of eternal youth as the ultimate beauty to timeless wellness, lasting vitality and this is the new beauty from Gen Z to boomers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf we go further, we ask a simple question, what\u0026#8217;s your definition of beauty? Just score it, you know and we have seen that this is really an holistic vision of beauty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first definition for our panel is body-mind alignment. Then there is longevity, then self-expression, even before aesthetic standards. The eternal youth, you know, produce aspect. Then else, else is part of beauty, natural authenticity and finally performance and optimization and we will come back on this one. It could seem a little bit low, but it means a lot in terms of signals. So, once again, a holistic vision of beauty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThen, if we deep dive a little bit, we\u0026#8217;ll see that innovation, science-led, you know, scientific proof is now a key point in beauty. For sure, sustainability is absolutely key and it\u0026#8217;s something that customers are still waiting for when they buy luxury products or experiences for beauty. But it\u0026#8217;s something that is now for sure secure in their mind. They want something new, they want a science-led innovation proof, because beauty now is almost, you know, in competition with medical treatment or other option that could really improve your physical appearance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e59% of our panel is asking for this bio-optimization and proof of performance. So, it is a strong signal. If we go further, how can the maison craft the future within this new era with this new beauty shift? First of all, as I said, we have to redefine beauty as a holistic essence, not focus anymore on anti-aging, you know, a thing like that, but to really speak to your client, to your customer, about what is beauty for them. Then make beauty science-led. In your storytelling, you have to explain what you do and how your experiences, services, or products are making some effects or benefits on your customer. And finally, honour, authenticity, identity, self-development, if we come back on the elevation of luxury over enhancement. For our last part, I think that we will travel in the future.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:35] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, remember, I said at the beginning we were going to have a look at what does 2030 look like. And for this one, what we\u0026#8217;re going to do is actually try and expand our minds, think of it in a different way, explore what the future could be for your brand or for your product. And there are three different ways we\u0026#8217;re going to look at this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first one is exploring new territories, so with this one, I\u0026#8217;m going to give an example of hospitality and travel, okay? People are looking for more extreme things to do — maybe it\u0026#8217;s deep sea travel or going to polar expeditions, climbing the Himalayas, but actually very soon it\u0026#8217;s going to be space tourism as well. Now, what is super interesting is it\u0026#8217;s not just about that experience, but building on what you just spoke about, Anne-Laure, how does that experience make me a better person? How does it improve my health? Maybe it improves my feelings about myself, the way I\u0026#8217;m thinking. It\u0026#8217;s got to be connected to improving yourself as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second area is again building on the trend that you spoke about, how can you connect your brand or your product to a better life? Better life for me and whatever that means, if it\u0026#8217;s more physical resilience, more personalized wellness plans, in what I\u0026#8217;m, what I\u0026#8217;m being able to do, really connecting it to that beauty shift to extend, connect the product to a better person and a better life that I can have.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd the third area is much more around connecting it to robotics and what we\u0026#8217;re seeing is affluent clients are really warming to robotics, but it\u0026#8217;s really about how humans and robots work better together. We\u0026#8217;re seeing in some geographies, like Japan and China, there\u0026#8217;s a stronger confidence to be able to do that, rather than in Western markets, but the real key here is these new frontiers or new uses feel really human, feel really personal, feel very close to the brand and not something futuristic. I think this is really really important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, how do you activate this into into the world? The first is really to think about how you can extend those territories of your brand. What does that mean logical for you? How do you explore it? Maybe some partnerships with some frontier tech organizations. Immersive storytelling could be something else you look at. How do you invest in extending the lifespan of your product and in a real way to personal well-being as well, really connecting the fourth and this topic together, I think, is super important. And finally, approach robotics carefully, but with cultural reference as well. Different geographies will appeal it in different ways, but how do you make it something seamless and something very human as well?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNow, when I look across all of these five trends that we\u0026#8217;ve spoken about, there\u0026#8217;s something that\u0026#8217;s really interesting that\u0026#8217;s connecting all of these together. And it\u0026#8217;s the way the consumer is being very fluid, you know, a different, the same consumer in a different moment, a different context, for a different brand can have a different feeling, a different expectation of what they want and we call this Liquid Consumerism. And in order for brands to be able to respond to that, brands need to be agile, you need to be able to adapt to them, need to be really able to see them, who they are. So, me as a professional person, me as a husband, me as a father, in this, how do you communicate and how do you operate with this? I think this is a really key trend across all of these, not to forget that focus on the consumer.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"ID":87898,"id":87898,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","filesize":306311,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87867,"date":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","modified":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-300x287.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":287,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-768x735.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-1024x980.png","large-width":640,"large-height":613,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","1536x1536-width":1268,"1536x1536-height":1214,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","2048x2048-width":1268,"2048x2048-height":1214}},"description":"Unveiling the expectations from the (Ultra) High-Net-Worth Individuals","report_link":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury","type":"internal"}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:08] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWhat we\u0026#8217;re now going to do is have a look at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003ethe report\u003c/a\u003e. We\u0026#8217;ve given you the insights, but we\u0026#8217;re now going to look at it from a different perspective. We\u0026#8217;re going to have a reality check, we\u0026#8217;re going to look and speak to some of our clients and see what they think about this report. I\u0026#8217;m really pleased now to be joined by one of my dear colleagues and friends, a real leader when it comes to frog around luxury and the work we do with our clients to really delve into this from an external perspective. Caroline, welcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:39] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eMerci beaucoup. Hello Gagandeep, I\u0026#8217;m very pleased to be with you today and I\u0026#8217;m very delighted to welcome Agnes Roquefort from Accor Group, who will bring her perspective on these luxury key trends we have shared with everyone and help us understand how Accor will play with these trends. So, Agnes, maybe my first question is, could you please, please briefly introduce your role and your position and your scope within Accor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:26:19] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eThanks Caroline, thanks Anne-Laure and Gagandeep for having me today to translate these new lines of luxury to the tourism and hospitality sector. Thanks very much. I\u0026#8217;m Agnes Roquefort, global chief development officer for the luxury and lifestyle brands of Accor and with my global team, really located across the globe, we are in charge of signing and opening one hotel per week for the luxury and lifestyle brands, namely Fermont, Sophie Tel, Raffles, Delano, Mama Shelter, all these brands with a big component on experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:02] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eGreat. Maybe to start with one of the trends we shared with Anne-Laure, the one that is called Elevation of Luxury. We see a strong shift from construction to self-development in luxury is the transformation visible in hospitality at Accor, or are you moving from offering a stay to enabling a transformative and meaningful experience to your guests?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:35] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eIt\u0026#8217;s a major trend for us and there\u0026#8217;s been a major trend, probably for 10 years now and indeed our guests are asking more than a sleep, more than a stay, more than a good bed, they want much more and this is what we call experiential hospitality or augmented hospitality, 360 hospitality and so what does that mean concretely? It means that beyond the bed, beyond the stay, we will introduce very strong experiences as regards food and beverage, restaurants; the guests are asking a lot in terms of experiences in restaurants with very, let\u0026#8217;s say, appealing concepts and very strong concept is not now extraordinary that we have hotels with a revenue that is going beyond 50% of the total revenue. So, it\u0026#8217;s becoming more restaurants with some beds, with some rooms.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWellbeing is a big component and we will come back on that, but it\u0026#8217;s really again part of, let\u0026#8217;s say, the experience and what we name experiential is hospitality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe have, as well, many other experiences, even events. So, we have in the all-inclusive world, which was not so glamorous so far, but now all-inclusive results are really luxurious, strongly on luxury, with a lot of experiences around entertainment events and we have, as well, superstar, really rock star, that are touring the hotel to really entertain the guests and propose again exclusive events directly in the hotel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I need to give you, let\u0026#8217;s say, some materialization of this major trend about elevation or luxury. One segment, which is absolutely booming for our luxury guest, is branded residence. Branded residence, what is that? American, Middle East, Asian, know pretty well, European a bit less. It\u0026#8217;s really your apartment, your villa with let\u0026#8217;s say homeowners that are buying not only an apartment and a villa and a home, but as well a brand able to deliver a great product, a great design and as well a fantastic hotel experience and it is what we call hotelization of the real estate. So, you really have your own home with your family, but as well with concierge, with valet parking, with the most fabulous gym really accessible from your home, with sometimes well-being directly, let\u0026#8217;s say, in the home and in the building of your apartment, with restaurants, with a fantastic pool, with really a true concierge laundry service that you could find in a hotel. Even to welcome your friends and family, some theatre, some cinema from a movie room with really vanguard technology. So, this is really a new iteration of the evolution of luxury with high-net-worth individuals, ultra-net-worth individuals, more and more buying this kind of villa and apartment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTo give you a hint about the trend, so far there are 700 branded residents across the globe. The pipeline for the next three years is 700 so in 20 years we built 700 branded residents and for the next three to five years there will be this add-on on the market with again, yeah, luxury guests that are looking for, let\u0026#8217;s say, mixing their daily lifestyle, their home with, let\u0026#8217;s say, really high level of service. Giving you as well some perspective about the brands in hospitality that are going to this elevation of luxury. It is hot news at Accor with the launch of Orient Express sailing yachts and Orient Express at Accor is defined more than a hotel brand, like a travel brand. And what do we mean by that is we have a few hotels in Rome, in Venice for the first one. We have some trains on the railway in Italy and as well we have a major sailing yacht that I just started in Cannes in the Mediterranean area, which is crazy in terms of space and luxury elevation and as well, Orient Express was recently in a museum in the Musée des Arts Décoratifs in Paris, with the exhibition around the Art décor. And why I\u0026#8217;m mentioning this brand it\u0026#8217;s a good illustration of what, let\u0026#8217;s say, elevation of luxury means and what the guests, the customers, are looking for in the museum, for example, they\u0026#8217;re looking for, let\u0026#8217;s say, nearly an emotional connection with the history of the brand, which is secular, born in 1883, so more than a century, they want to, let\u0026#8217;s say, understand the craftsmanship and indeed, how it was like 100 years ago. They want to be, of course, connected as well with the different experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I would say the third point that we can experience with the elevation of luxury that you, you\u0026#8217;ve mentioned, Gagandeep, is really with a transformative experience that is more and more incarnated with well-being and so again, taking the example of Orient Express, we will have a transatlantic way from Lisbon to Caribbeans of 14 days of wellbeing for the guests to reconnect with their body and with their mind. So, this is all of that and you know you can feel it very strongly focus on experience and it\u0026#8217;s resonating a lot with our trends related to beauty shift as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:34:48] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eThank you for sharing that. So maybe coming back to the next trends in namely, the one that you were mentioning, Gagandeep, related to enduring value. We know that luxury clients are increasingly focused on long-term value, durability, trust. How does this translate into hospitality? Do you see hospitality becoming an investment in lifestyle or well-being, rather than rather than just one-time experience we can offer in a hotel room, for instance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:35:30] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s a very good question, because when we\u0026#8217;re talking about enduring value, we associate that to an item and to luxury item, but it translates pretty well as well, to travel, to tourism. Because when you have this kind of very high-end luxury experiences, what the guests are looking for are, let\u0026#8217;s say, stories that they can tell to their loved ones when they\u0026#8217;re coming back home, but they want, as well, to create memories, long-lasting memories, that they will take with them for a long time, for their friends, for their family. So, this is where the enduring value is in this, let\u0026#8217;s say long-lasting memories, memories forever and how do you create that?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe good news is that to create these memorable moments, these memories forever are very much focused on the human touch. Clearly, AI technology will help us to automate the ordinary, but we will have to further humanize the extraordinary. And the good thing is that we create magic, we create these emotions, these experiences, thanks to our staff. In your report, as well, you mentioned, you know, the personalized customized concierge, etc., indeed, it\u0026#8217;s already very strong in our luxury and ultra luxury brands.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe have a butler at Raffles that is really aside the guests to create these exclusive events across the stay and to answer their needs that they didn\u0026#8217;t think they would have this need during their stay, but to create this magic and this strong relationship with the guest. And the fun fact I was sharing with you just before this report and this interview is that you know that I had the chance to stay in a strong well-being and eco-friendly brand Chablis, a Mexican brand with a fantastic hotel in Yucatán and they\u0026#8217;ve got a strong well-being component. But you know, I was not really aware of what was well-being at Chablis brand and the first part of the well-being experience starts with kind of an interview and one hour with a true shaman, una abuela, you know, and I was so impacted and moved with emotion and a bit transformed, I must say that I do not even remember the massage, after you know and it\u0026#8217;s really when we\u0026#8217;re talking about transformative experience, you know, memories that really last long, is typically this kind of experience where you have something that you could not imagine and that you\u0026#8217;re taking with you back home and continuing to, let\u0026#8217;s say, use every day in your life.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:38] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, maybe our last trend, it\u0026#8217;s about new frontiers, new territories of luxury and maybe we were wondering, looking ahead to maybe 2030 or maybe beyond, luxury clients are increasingly drawn to new frontier like extreme travels, new territories, even when we were mentioning in the report, space tourism and just wondering, what could be the next territories of luxury experience for a group like Accor?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:39:23] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eSo there are many, but I would like to share not something that will happen in 20 years, but probably in two or three years is around the space and around the new frontiers and so you will be happy to know, Caroline, that we\u0026#8217;re working on a very concrete project in Cape Canaveral with some people that would like to invest in the space, let\u0026#8217;s say training, so the idea of that is to have a hotel with a space training area that allows, of course, astronauts as well as high-net-worth individual to train and to be ready to go to the space, but as well amateurs as yourself and myself, maybe, that want to have, let\u0026#8217;s say, a bit of flavour of what would be, let\u0026#8217;s say, a training for an astronaut like Thomas Pesquet. So you know, experiencing the dream that you can already experience, for example, in the sports with the tennis academy, like Mouratoglou, but just imagine that for the space in Cape Canaveral, or other places, and it\u0026#8217;s not in 20 years, it\u0026#8217;s really coming, probably in three, five years maximum.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:40:38] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eI think you will have a lot of guests that would like to come, because we have already. So, thank you so much, Agnes, for your time and for sharing with us your valuable insight on these trends and happy to see what’s with the next, new territories you were mentioning, it will be more than happy for us to be part of the new experience and testers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:41:12] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWe’ll be on the waiting for these trips. What a fantastic way to hear those stories and what\u0026#8217;s happening. And yes, thank you so much for sharing that. There\u0026#8217;s so much that is exciting there and also a way to see the insights in the report come to life, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:08] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eSo, look, we\u0026#8217;ve had a fabulous time. I can\u0026#8217;t believe it\u0026#8217;s gone so quickly. Anne-Laure, can I just come to you for your final reflections?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:17] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eBut probably I just would like to say that there are many more in the report, for sure. We try to disclose it in a nutshell, as we say, but for sure, I hope that we will engage in conversations with our clients, prospects, friends as soon as possible and we are also able to customize the insight and the data for every maison and it will be a pleasure, for sure. Stay tuned.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:46] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eFantastic. I want to thank everyone, all of the speakers, for their great participation today. It\u0026#8217;s been really really great. And look, you know, I look at this and say, yes, there\u0026#8217;s a lot of change, but there\u0026#8217;s a lot of opportunity out there. Hopefully, today we\u0026#8217;ve excited you all about those possibilities and inspired you about what could be. You can access the full report on frog.co and like Anne-Laure said, please contact us if you want a deeper dive, go into more of the detail, and specifically what it could mean for you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download frog’s new report: \u0026#8216;\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e.\u0026#8217;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our panel – Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog; Caroline Le Bars, VP at frog; and Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFind a link to the \u003ca href=\"https://api.momindum.com/watch/uD3ia9PaDsrqbgrv0giXbw-jtXqaSKerKnk4Z9QLcxE.\"\u003efull webinar of this conversation\u003c/a\u003e, complete with even more insights from the report. Visit frog.co/contact to request report deep dives and a synthetic client demo from Anne-Laure and our \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury\"\u003efrog luxury team\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eand Spotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"ID":42755,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2022-03-28 15:20:00","post_date_gmt":"2022-03-28 15:20:00","post_content":"","post_title":"Gagandeep Gadri","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"gagandeep-gadri","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-02-03 22:14:08","post_modified_gmt":"2026-02-03 22:14:08","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=42755","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Gagandeep Gadri","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGagandeep is an Executive Vice President and is the Managing Director of frog globally and the Head of frog in the United Kingdom. A future focused senior leader commanding 25 years of experience gained driving innovation, growth and delivering customer experience and digital projects across global brands. 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12:24:07","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":2880,"height":1104,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-300x115.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-768x294.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-1024x393.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-1536x589.png","1536X1536Width":1536,"1536X1536Height":589,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-2048x785.png","2048X2048Width":2048,"2048X2048Height":785}},"videoFile":false,"title":"Design Mind frogcast Ep.61 – The New Lines of Luxury","description":"Our Guests: Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026 Lifestyle, Accor; Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director, frog; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury, frog; Caroline Le Bars, Vice President, frog","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eWhat does \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury\"\u003eluxury\u003c/a\u003e really mean in a world that\u0026#8217;s constantly redefining itself? In this episode, frog Managing Director Gagandeep Gadri sits down with Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog, to unpack the findings from frog\u0026#8217;s latest research: a deep dive into the minds of more than 5,000 high-net-worth and ultra-high-net-worth individuals worldwide. \u003cspan data-teams=\"true\"\u003eThen, frog VP Caroline Le Bars sits down with Agnès Roquefort, Global Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor to explore what these trends mean for hospitality, from branded residences to the reimagined Orient Express. It\u0026#8217;s a rich look at where luxury is headed next.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode below. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://share.transistor.fm/e/13c16410\" width=\"100%\" height=\"180\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 61:\u003c/strong\u003e The New Lines of Luxury\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuests:\u003c/strong\u003e Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle, Accor; Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director, frog; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury, frog; Caroline Le Bars, Vice President, frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e[00:00:03] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/b\u003eWelcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we\u0026#8217;re exploring what luxury really means in a world that\u0026#8217;s constantly redefining it. You’re going to hear a conversation hosted by Gagandeep Gadri, the Managing Director of frog, with three guests: Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer for Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor, Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog and Caroline Le Bars, Vice President at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor our panelists, luxury today is less about status and more about substance; what feels considered, what feels rare and how brands build trust through experience rather than excess. Their new report, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e, unpacks these shifts across the sector, with a special focus on hospitality and what Agnès is seeing firsthand at Accor. You can find a link to the full report and more in our show notes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut first, let’s jump in.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:43] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWelcome everyone and thank you so much for joining. My name is Gagandeep Gadri. I am the Managing Director of frog, part of Capgemini Invent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt frog, we work with our clients to do two things:\u003cbr /\u003e\nOne is reinventing the future; how to unleash growth through new products, services and experiences.\u003cbr /\u003e\nSecond, how to deliver that growth by creating the best customer experience with real focus on the customer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd that\u0026#8217;s what we did last year. Last year we really went deep into the luxury customer, where we spoke to thousands of high-net-worth individuals to understand what they buy, why and what they\u0026#8217;re looking for. With the world changing so quickly, technology — Agentic AI — is just making so many changes. We decided to go back to that research and talk to those consumers again, finding out what they are looking for, not only in what they buy, but also what they expect in 2030.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd so, today, we\u0026#8217;re going to be sharing with you the latest findings from that research. The key thing that came out was very much around: it\u0026#8217;s not about technology and emotion, but how do we deliver even more immersive, better experiences that showcase the emotion, leveraging technology.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI\u0026#8217;m super pleased to have Anne-Laure join me today. She heads the luxury platform at frog. Anne-Laure, tell us a little bit more about the research we did and what everyone can look forward to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:41] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eGood afternoon and thank you for joining. I will begin with the incredible size of our panel this year. We have been able to be in interaction with more than 5000 individuals — from high-net-worth to ultra-high-net-worth individuals.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe New Lines of Luxury is the brand of our report, but this year we have spotted five new lines. The first one is called The Revenge of Retail and we will dive deep in one minute on it. The second one, The Elevation of Luxury. Then a very specific one, a bit fun, because this is a comeback to the original promise of luxury, we call this trend Enduring Value, not the lasting value of luxury products or experiences. Beauty shifts — beauty changes so quickly. And finally, going a bit deeper into 2030 and beyond, a more prospective trend around Lifespan, Robotics and New Frontiers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGagandeep, can you tell us a few words about the Revenge of Retail?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:34] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, let\u0026#8217;s dive straight into here. So, the Revenge of Retail, you know, the last 20 years or so, there\u0026#8217;s been a huge amount of spending in digital apps, websites, digital commerce; the store and the physical space have been a little bit forgotten about. But now, we want to return to that. That\u0026#8217;s what this is about. It\u0026#8217;s the Revenge of Retail, returning to the physical space but not just as it was before. It\u0026#8217;s got to be in the new way, as an innovation lab, as something where the real feeling of the brand, the essence of the brand, can be seen. When we look at these boutiques or these physical spaces, it\u0026#8217;s all physical touchpoints, so it could be full boutique, it could be the dealership, could be the lobby of a hotel, could be where a private wealth banking meeting happens. These are all areas that are out there to get this new physical experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut what consumers want is when they go to these places, they want to have a different experience, because what they can do through digital and their apps, they don\u0026#8217;t want to be able to do when they get into the physical space. They want something different. They want you to stimulate them. They want to have an experience. They want to get closer to the brand. But really importantly, they don\u0026#8217;t want the same experience from every touchpoint that they go to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor example, in a five-star hotel in Paris and then one in London, they expect some similarity, but what they\u0026#8217;re also looking for is the differences — the local nuances to come into that space as well because why else would they want to keep on going to these spaces if they don\u0026#8217;t get that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen we talk about innovation and technology, it\u0026#8217;s not about having more screens and more digital stuff. It\u0026#8217;s about really using it to help bring the emotion across in a seamless way, make the experience better, more interesting for the consumers as well. So, how do we leverage physical AI, but in a really seamless way to help the consumer and to help the people working in those boutiques do their job better?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, as a brand, how do you activate this and I think there are three things that we look at:\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe first one is reimagining the beauty boutique as a stage. This is really important. It\u0026#8217;s about a performance; it\u0026#8217;s about a moment to Make Your Mark. How do you do that? How do you get the core of the brand to resonate in this physical space and create a really really exciting moment?\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe second is yes, embed AI, but as a seamless, effortless part of the overall journey and experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe final part here is, how can we use it as a hub, bringing people together, not just at the start of a transaction, not at the end of a transaction, maybe when something goes wrong, but ongoing to really create a community and really build loyalty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, I think these are three things that will help those maisons really reconnect into a physical space. Anne-Laure, tell us about the next thing we found out.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:10:36] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, we\u0026#8217;ll talk about now the Elevation of Luxury and you just mentioned Gagandeep, the fact that someone you know traveling from the UK to France, for example, can stay in the same hotel in terms of brand, not the same place and want the same standard, the expectation of experiences, but not exactly the same experience to be sure that it feels something different, emotionally speaking, in London and in Paris, for example, this is where the elevation of luxury happened, because this is deeply rooted to emotion, expectation of self-enhancement and development and this trend explained that from only, you know , a transactional relationship between brands and customer, we have now to develop what we call the transformative luxury. Luxury becomes a vehicle for who people aspire to become. Tell me what you spend and I will tell you who you are, it\u0026#8217;s really close to the identity of people. For example, 36% of our panel want a real cultural or spiritual dimension in their luxury consumption and 81% — this is a huge number — are seeking freedom in their luxury consumption. You know, a few years ago, talking with metaphysical words about luxury, we earned a lot. Luxury is time, ultimate luxury is space, it\u0026#8217;s love. Now it\u0026#8217;s really freedom, self-development. So, there is really a huge trend within this elevation of luxury.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf we go further, elevated luxury also means that as a customer you want to have the opportunity to be in relation with luxury anytime, anywhere and any way. For example, 79% of our panel is asking for on-demand luxury that it can access anywhere and everywhere. This is quite new. Remember, a lot of maisons made some kind of pushback about having a 24/7 expectation in relation with their client. But the clients are asking for it, not in replacement to their personal advisor but in addition to them. Another key figure is that 55% of the panel is expecting for hyper personalized conciergerie and not only in hospitality. Really, for every brand, for a wealth management company to an automotive retailer, they want to have this opportunity to engage conversation really on demand with extra and personalized services.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHow to activate it? We have to move from transaction to transformation and understand what does it mean in terms of customer journey. Secondly, deliver on-demand experiences. This is not only words, it means that for sure you have to prepare really consistent technological assets and background to be sure that you can operate it properly and finally you have to open up to sales development spaces, new frontier and real business development to offer new possibility to your clients. We\u0026#8217;ll talk now about the Enduring Value and come back to the original premise of luxury.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:28] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, this one is really important. How do you connect back to the heritage of the brand, right? The real craft, the trust, the timelessness of that brand you have. You know, some clients have been questioning prices have been going up for luxury brands and the real answer here is for brands to connect back to the real purpose, that real heritage of the brand. The first thing that we really see here is that, you know it\u0026#8217;s an investment. 77% of our consumers we spoke to said luxury is an investment and that\u0026#8217;s a really big number and they have a massive expectation that it\u0026#8217;s actually going to retain or grow in value. That\u0026#8217;s their perception of what they think they\u0026#8217;re getting into. It\u0026#8217;s not a niche collector mindset, you can see it\u0026#8217;s across all geographies. India and Japan had the highest expectation, while China had the lowest one in this area.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe wealthier the respondent, the higher the expectation they had. So, this is really important about the ongoing value of that product. Now, we see a massive opportunity actually. This opportunity is in the ongoing relationship you can have — the ongoing sales care, the ongoing connection you can make with the brand. So, how can you extend the life of the product? Maybe there\u0026#8217;s some more aftercare services, there\u0026#8217;s more some add-on products, there\u0026#8217;s about the digital traceability of it, get more information, a digital footprint of the product. This is super important and valuable when you\u0026#8217;re going to hand the product over as well. And the product continues its life that you\u0026#8217;ve got this traceability, you\u0026#8217;ve got access to all of this other information.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, how do you activate this enduring value? Take care at the core of the of the product strategy. I think this is super important. Not just the product itself, but the extra things around it that we can put to give that consumer a longer, better experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second bit is really building that trust through transparency. So, how through maybe a digital footprint, more digital information, digital asset, you can give more information, traceability around the project. When sustainability is a growing topic, you know, that\u0026#8217;s going to become more and more important for clients to see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut the final one is really key here. It\u0026#8217;s to embrace circularity. What we\u0026#8217;re seeing is so many different marketplaces coming up where people are reselling their luxury product. But if in that second purchase and the third purchase it\u0026#8217;s the enduring value that is really important. As a brand, you need to own that, you should own and embrace circularity, so that when these products get resold, the value of those products, the story of that product, that belongs to you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI was actually recently in Italy, in Bologna and I went to the Pagani garage and there, when you buy a car, they can\u0026#8217;t resell it. You have to resell it back to Pagani so they can own that story, own the value of the product. And I think that is super important for them in the value of their brand in order to go forward and maybe something to learn on. Anne-Laure, why don\u0026#8217;t you tell us about the fourth line.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:41] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eThe fourth line is the Beauty Shift and it makes me feel listening to you that now the luxury consumer is really mature, you know, worldwide. New expectations are also driven by the fact that this is not a new kind of consumption, especially for the high-net-worths and the ultra-high-net-worths. And it\u0026#8217;s true also, regarding beauty, that is probably the segment that is still growing but shifting the most. The fun fact, before deep diving into this beauty shift, is that we had a lot of quotes, a lot of verbatim from the individuals in our panel and regarding beauty, we obtain a lot of quotes from men.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, first of all, beauty is not a woman topic, not at all.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSecondly, the shift, if I have to summarize it, is we came from a world of eternal youth as the ultimate beauty to timeless wellness, lasting vitality and this is the new beauty from Gen Z to boomers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf we go further, we ask a simple question, what\u0026#8217;s your definition of beauty? Just score it, you know and we have seen that this is really an holistic vision of beauty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first definition for our panel is body-mind alignment. Then there is longevity, then self-expression, even before aesthetic standards. The eternal youth, you know, produce aspect. Then else, else is part of beauty, natural authenticity and finally performance and optimization and we will come back on this one. It could seem a little bit low, but it means a lot in terms of signals. So, once again, a holistic vision of beauty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThen, if we deep dive a little bit, we\u0026#8217;ll see that innovation, science-led, you know, scientific proof is now a key point in beauty. For sure, sustainability is absolutely key and it\u0026#8217;s something that customers are still waiting for when they buy luxury products or experiences for beauty. But it\u0026#8217;s something that is now for sure secure in their mind. They want something new, they want a science-led innovation proof, because beauty now is almost, you know, in competition with medical treatment or other option that could really improve your physical appearance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e59% of our panel is asking for this bio-optimization and proof of performance. So, it is a strong signal. If we go further, how can the maison craft the future within this new era with this new beauty shift? First of all, as I said, we have to redefine beauty as a holistic essence, not focus anymore on anti-aging, you know, a thing like that, but to really speak to your client, to your customer, about what is beauty for them. Then make beauty science-led. In your storytelling, you have to explain what you do and how your experiences, services, or products are making some effects or benefits on your customer. And finally, honour, authenticity, identity, self-development, if we come back on the elevation of luxury over enhancement. For our last part, I think that we will travel in the future.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:35] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, remember, I said at the beginning we were going to have a look at what does 2030 look like. And for this one, what we\u0026#8217;re going to do is actually try and expand our minds, think of it in a different way, explore what the future could be for your brand or for your product. And there are three different ways we\u0026#8217;re going to look at this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first one is exploring new territories, so with this one, I\u0026#8217;m going to give an example of hospitality and travel, okay? People are looking for more extreme things to do — maybe it\u0026#8217;s deep sea travel or going to polar expeditions, climbing the Himalayas, but actually very soon it\u0026#8217;s going to be space tourism as well. Now, what is super interesting is it\u0026#8217;s not just about that experience, but building on what you just spoke about, Anne-Laure, how does that experience make me a better person? How does it improve my health? Maybe it improves my feelings about myself, the way I\u0026#8217;m thinking. It\u0026#8217;s got to be connected to improving yourself as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second area is again building on the trend that you spoke about, how can you connect your brand or your product to a better life? Better life for me and whatever that means, if it\u0026#8217;s more physical resilience, more personalized wellness plans, in what I\u0026#8217;m, what I\u0026#8217;m being able to do, really connecting it to that beauty shift to extend, connect the product to a better person and a better life that I can have.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd the third area is much more around connecting it to robotics and what we\u0026#8217;re seeing is affluent clients are really warming to robotics, but it\u0026#8217;s really about how humans and robots work better together. We\u0026#8217;re seeing in some geographies, like Japan and China, there\u0026#8217;s a stronger confidence to be able to do that, rather than in Western markets, but the real key here is these new frontiers or new uses feel really human, feel really personal, feel very close to the brand and not something futuristic. I think this is really really important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, how do you activate this into into the world? The first is really to think about how you can extend those territories of your brand. What does that mean logical for you? How do you explore it? Maybe some partnerships with some frontier tech organizations. Immersive storytelling could be something else you look at. How do you invest in extending the lifespan of your product and in a real way to personal well-being as well, really connecting the fourth and this topic together, I think, is super important. And finally, approach robotics carefully, but with cultural reference as well. Different geographies will appeal it in different ways, but how do you make it something seamless and something very human as well?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNow, when I look across all of these five trends that we\u0026#8217;ve spoken about, there\u0026#8217;s something that\u0026#8217;s really interesting that\u0026#8217;s connecting all of these together. And it\u0026#8217;s the way the consumer is being very fluid, you know, a different, the same consumer in a different moment, a different context, for a different brand can have a different feeling, a different expectation of what they want and we call this Liquid Consumerism. And in order for brands to be able to respond to that, brands need to be agile, you need to be able to adapt to them, need to be really able to see them, who they are. So, me as a professional person, me as a husband, me as a father, in this, how do you communicate and how do you operate with this? I think this is a really key trend across all of these, not to forget that focus on the consumer.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"id":87898,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","filesize":306311,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87867,"date":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","modified":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-300x287.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":287,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-768x735.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-1024x980.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":613,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","1536X1536Width":1268,"1536X1536Height":1214,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","2048X2048Width":1268,"2048X2048Height":1214}},"description":"Unveiling the expectations from the (Ultra) High-Net-Worth Individuals","reportLink":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury","type":"internal"}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:08] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWhat we\u0026#8217;re now going to do is have a look at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003ethe report\u003c/a\u003e. We\u0026#8217;ve given you the insights, but we\u0026#8217;re now going to look at it from a different perspective. We\u0026#8217;re going to have a reality check, we\u0026#8217;re going to look and speak to some of our clients and see what they think about this report. I\u0026#8217;m really pleased now to be joined by one of my dear colleagues and friends, a real leader when it comes to frog around luxury and the work we do with our clients to really delve into this from an external perspective. Caroline, welcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:39] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eMerci beaucoup. Hello Gagandeep, I\u0026#8217;m very pleased to be with you today and I\u0026#8217;m very delighted to welcome Agnes Roquefort from Accor Group, who will bring her perspective on these luxury key trends we have shared with everyone and help us understand how Accor will play with these trends. So, Agnes, maybe my first question is, could you please, please briefly introduce your role and your position and your scope within Accor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:26:19] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eThanks Caroline, thanks Anne-Laure and Gagandeep for having me today to translate these new lines of luxury to the tourism and hospitality sector. Thanks very much. I\u0026#8217;m Agnes Roquefort, global chief development officer for the luxury and lifestyle brands of Accor and with my global team, really located across the globe, we are in charge of signing and opening one hotel per week for the luxury and lifestyle brands, namely Fermont, Sophie Tel, Raffles, Delano, Mama Shelter, all these brands with a big component on experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:02] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eGreat. Maybe to start with one of the trends we shared with Anne-Laure, the one that is called Elevation of Luxury. We see a strong shift from construction to self-development in luxury is the transformation visible in hospitality at Accor, or are you moving from offering a stay to enabling a transformative and meaningful experience to your guests?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:35] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eIt\u0026#8217;s a major trend for us and there\u0026#8217;s been a major trend, probably for 10 years now and indeed our guests are asking more than a sleep, more than a stay, more than a good bed, they want much more and this is what we call experiential hospitality or augmented hospitality, 360 hospitality and so what does that mean concretely? It means that beyond the bed, beyond the stay, we will introduce very strong experiences as regards food and beverage, restaurants; the guests are asking a lot in terms of experiences in restaurants with very, let\u0026#8217;s say, appealing concepts and very strong concept is not now extraordinary that we have hotels with a revenue that is going beyond 50% of the total revenue. So, it\u0026#8217;s becoming more restaurants with some beds, with some rooms.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWellbeing is a big component and we will come back on that, but it\u0026#8217;s really again part of, let\u0026#8217;s say, the experience and what we name experiential is hospitality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe have, as well, many other experiences, even events. So, we have in the all-inclusive world, which was not so glamorous so far, but now all-inclusive results are really luxurious, strongly on luxury, with a lot of experiences around entertainment events and we have, as well, superstar, really rock star, that are touring the hotel to really entertain the guests and propose again exclusive events directly in the hotel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I need to give you, let\u0026#8217;s say, some materialization of this major trend about elevation or luxury. One segment, which is absolutely booming for our luxury guest, is branded residence. Branded residence, what is that? American, Middle East, Asian, know pretty well, European a bit less. It\u0026#8217;s really your apartment, your villa with let\u0026#8217;s say homeowners that are buying not only an apartment and a villa and a home, but as well a brand able to deliver a great product, a great design and as well a fantastic hotel experience and it is what we call hotelization of the real estate. So, you really have your own home with your family, but as well with concierge, with valet parking, with the most fabulous gym really accessible from your home, with sometimes well-being directly, let\u0026#8217;s say, in the home and in the building of your apartment, with restaurants, with a fantastic pool, with really a true concierge laundry service that you could find in a hotel. Even to welcome your friends and family, some theatre, some cinema from a movie room with really vanguard technology. So, this is really a new iteration of the evolution of luxury with high-net-worth individuals, ultra-net-worth individuals, more and more buying this kind of villa and apartment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTo give you a hint about the trend, so far there are 700 branded residents across the globe. The pipeline for the next three years is 700 so in 20 years we built 700 branded residents and for the next three to five years there will be this add-on on the market with again, yeah, luxury guests that are looking for, let\u0026#8217;s say, mixing their daily lifestyle, their home with, let\u0026#8217;s say, really high level of service. Giving you as well some perspective about the brands in hospitality that are going to this elevation of luxury. It is hot news at Accor with the launch of Orient Express sailing yachts and Orient Express at Accor is defined more than a hotel brand, like a travel brand. And what do we mean by that is we have a few hotels in Rome, in Venice for the first one. We have some trains on the railway in Italy and as well we have a major sailing yacht that I just started in Cannes in the Mediterranean area, which is crazy in terms of space and luxury elevation and as well, Orient Express was recently in a museum in the Musée des Arts Décoratifs in Paris, with the exhibition around the Art décor. And why I\u0026#8217;m mentioning this brand it\u0026#8217;s a good illustration of what, let\u0026#8217;s say, elevation of luxury means and what the guests, the customers, are looking for in the museum, for example, they\u0026#8217;re looking for, let\u0026#8217;s say, nearly an emotional connection with the history of the brand, which is secular, born in 1883, so more than a century, they want to, let\u0026#8217;s say, understand the craftsmanship and indeed, how it was like 100 years ago. They want to be, of course, connected as well with the different experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I would say the third point that we can experience with the elevation of luxury that you, you\u0026#8217;ve mentioned, Gagandeep, is really with a transformative experience that is more and more incarnated with well-being and so again, taking the example of Orient Express, we will have a transatlantic way from Lisbon to Caribbeans of 14 days of wellbeing for the guests to reconnect with their body and with their mind. So, this is all of that and you know you can feel it very strongly focus on experience and it\u0026#8217;s resonating a lot with our trends related to beauty shift as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:34:48] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eThank you for sharing that. So maybe coming back to the next trends in namely, the one that you were mentioning, Gagandeep, related to enduring value. We know that luxury clients are increasingly focused on long-term value, durability, trust. How does this translate into hospitality? Do you see hospitality becoming an investment in lifestyle or well-being, rather than rather than just one-time experience we can offer in a hotel room, for instance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:35:30] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s a very good question, because when we\u0026#8217;re talking about enduring value, we associate that to an item and to luxury item, but it translates pretty well as well, to travel, to tourism. Because when you have this kind of very high-end luxury experiences, what the guests are looking for are, let\u0026#8217;s say, stories that they can tell to their loved ones when they\u0026#8217;re coming back home, but they want, as well, to create memories, long-lasting memories, that they will take with them for a long time, for their friends, for their family. So, this is where the enduring value is in this, let\u0026#8217;s say long-lasting memories, memories forever and how do you create that?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe good news is that to create these memorable moments, these memories forever are very much focused on the human touch. Clearly, AI technology will help us to automate the ordinary, but we will have to further humanize the extraordinary. And the good thing is that we create magic, we create these emotions, these experiences, thanks to our staff. In your report, as well, you mentioned, you know, the personalized customized concierge, etc., indeed, it\u0026#8217;s already very strong in our luxury and ultra luxury brands.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe have a butler at Raffles that is really aside the guests to create these exclusive events across the stay and to answer their needs that they didn\u0026#8217;t think they would have this need during their stay, but to create this magic and this strong relationship with the guest. And the fun fact I was sharing with you just before this report and this interview is that you know that I had the chance to stay in a strong well-being and eco-friendly brand Chablis, a Mexican brand with a fantastic hotel in Yucatán and they\u0026#8217;ve got a strong well-being component. But you know, I was not really aware of what was well-being at Chablis brand and the first part of the well-being experience starts with kind of an interview and one hour with a true shaman, una abuela, you know, and I was so impacted and moved with emotion and a bit transformed, I must say that I do not even remember the massage, after you know and it\u0026#8217;s really when we\u0026#8217;re talking about transformative experience, you know, memories that really last long, is typically this kind of experience where you have something that you could not imagine and that you\u0026#8217;re taking with you back home and continuing to, let\u0026#8217;s say, use every day in your life.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:38] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, maybe our last trend, it\u0026#8217;s about new frontiers, new territories of luxury and maybe we were wondering, looking ahead to maybe 2030 or maybe beyond, luxury clients are increasingly drawn to new frontier like extreme travels, new territories, even when we were mentioning in the report, space tourism and just wondering, what could be the next territories of luxury experience for a group like Accor?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:39:23] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eSo there are many, but I would like to share not something that will happen in 20 years, but probably in two or three years is around the space and around the new frontiers and so you will be happy to know, Caroline, that we\u0026#8217;re working on a very concrete project in Cape Canaveral with some people that would like to invest in the space, let\u0026#8217;s say training, so the idea of that is to have a hotel with a space training area that allows, of course, astronauts as well as high-net-worth individual to train and to be ready to go to the space, but as well amateurs as yourself and myself, maybe, that want to have, let\u0026#8217;s say, a bit of flavour of what would be, let\u0026#8217;s say, a training for an astronaut like Thomas Pesquet. So you know, experiencing the dream that you can already experience, for example, in the sports with the tennis academy, like Mouratoglou, but just imagine that for the space in Cape Canaveral, or other places, and it\u0026#8217;s not in 20 years, it\u0026#8217;s really coming, probably in three, five years maximum.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:40:38] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eI think you will have a lot of guests that would like to come, because we have already. So, thank you so much, Agnes, for your time and for sharing with us your valuable insight on these trends and happy to see what’s with the next, new territories you were mentioning, it will be more than happy for us to be part of the new experience and testers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:41:12] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWe’ll be on the waiting for these trips. What a fantastic way to hear those stories and what\u0026#8217;s happening. And yes, thank you so much for sharing that. There\u0026#8217;s so much that is exciting there and also a way to see the insights in the report come to life, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:08] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eSo, look, we\u0026#8217;ve had a fabulous time. I can\u0026#8217;t believe it\u0026#8217;s gone so quickly. Anne-Laure, can I just come to you for your final reflections?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:17] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eBut probably I just would like to say that there are many more in the report, for sure. We try to disclose it in a nutshell, as we say, but for sure, I hope that we will engage in conversations with our clients, prospects, friends as soon as possible and we are also able to customize the insight and the data for every maison and it will be a pleasure, for sure. Stay tuned.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:46] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eFantastic. I want to thank everyone, all of the speakers, for their great participation today. It\u0026#8217;s been really really great. And look, you know, I look at this and say, yes, there\u0026#8217;s a lot of change, but there\u0026#8217;s a lot of opportunity out there. Hopefully, today we\u0026#8217;ve excited you all about those possibilities and inspired you about what could be. You can access the full report on frog.co and like Anne-Laure said, please contact us if you want a deeper dive, go into more of the detail, and specifically what it could mean for you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download frog’s new report: \u0026#8216;\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e.\u0026#8217;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our panel – Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog; Caroline Le Bars, VP at frog; and Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFind a link to the \u003ca href=\"https://api.momindum.com/watch/uD3ia9PaDsrqbgrv0giXbw-jtXqaSKerKnk4Z9QLcxE.\"\u003efull webinar of this conversation\u003c/a\u003e, complete with even more insights from the report. Visit frog.co/contact to request report deep dives and a synthetic client demo from Anne-Laure and our \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury\"\u003efrog luxury team\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eand Spotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"slug":"gagandeep-gadri","authorName":"Gagandeep Gadri","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGagandeep is an Executive Vice President and is the Managing Director of frog globally and the Head of frog in the United Kingdom. A future focused senior leader commanding 25 years of experience gained driving innovation, growth and delivering customer experience and digital projects across global brands. Above all, a bold innovator with the capacity to evoke positive change felt at both a human and organisational level.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Managing Director of frog, Part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":56862,"title":"Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First","filename":"Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","filesize":41568,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/gagandeep-gadri/attachment/gagandeep-gadri-managing-director-of-frog-customer-first/","alt":"","author":"28","description":"","caption":"","name":"gagandeep-gadri-managing-director-of-frog-customer-first","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":42755,"date":"2023-02-17 16:38:09","modified":"2023-02-17 16:38:09","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":500,"height":500,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":500,"mediumLargeHeight":500,"large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","largeWidth":500,"largeHeight":500,"1536X1536":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","1536X1536Width":500,"1536X1536Height":500,"2048X2048":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","2048X2048Width":500,"2048X2048Height":500}}},{"slug":"anne-laure","authorName":"Anne-Laure Colcy","bio":"\u003cp\u003eWith over 20 years of experience in the luxury and financial services sectors, Anne-Laure Colcy is an accomplished executive, currently leading the Global Luxury platform at Capgemini Invent. She brings deep expertise in the intersection of business development, marketing, culture and technology for the luxury industry, with a focus on the emotional connections with craft and heritage that drive customer engagement and brand loyalty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnne-Laure\u0026#8217;s approach is centered around understanding how technology can enhance the luxury experience while maintaining the emotional essence of the sector, the feeling of affection, which is essential in navigating the evolving needs of today’s high-end consumers. She is passionate about leveraging innovation to meet luxury’s unique challenges in a new era of mutations.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Executive Vice President, Head of Global Luxury, frog","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":81754,"title":"Anne-Laure-author","filename":"Anne-Laure-author.png","filesize":373889,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/anne-laure/attachment/anne-laure-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"anne-laure-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":81752,"date":"2025-05-08 18:55:14","modified":"2025-05-08 18:55:14","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":700,"height":700,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author-300x300.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","1536X1536Width":700,"1536X1536Height":700,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","2048X2048Width":700,"2048X2048Height":700}}},{"slug":"caroline-le-bars","authorName":"Caroline Le Bars","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of Customer Strategy \u0026amp; Transformation at frog France, Caroline partners with leading luxury brands to reinvent customer experiences, client relationships and growth models. 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Must Keep up With the Speed of AI","description":"Long-term value depends on investing in strategy, research and human judgment alongside AI-powered products.","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eThe rise of AI-driven product development has dramatically reduced the cost of \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/connected-world\"\u003ebuilding digital products\u003c/a\u003e, while the speed at which products can be built has also accelerated significantly. Features that once sat on roadmaps for months can now move from idea to production in days. Most organizations see this as a productivity breakthrough. In practice, however, it has exposed a gap in how organizations learn from what they build.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTeams are shipping more—and faster—often without pausing to understand what those outputs deliver. This shift has created a clear imbalance: organizations overinvest in building while underinvesting in learning. The result is constant motion without clear direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhat matters now is not just producing AI-driven products at scale but ensuring that every build generates knowledge that informs what comes next. Learning must keep pace with creation. Otherwise, rapid delivery becomes noise rather than value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eAI is accelerating output—but not understanding\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs AI amplifies the pace of development, organizations face growing pressure to keep up with competitors. Teams focus on output, assuming that understanding will follow. Often, it does not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA few months after a product ships, the same question emerges: did it actually work?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNot in the narrow sense of whether it shipped successfully or scaled reliably, but whether it created meaningful value. Did it solve the right problem? Did it change behavior? Did it produce an outcome anyone can clearly connect to the effort invested? Unfortunately, these questions often remain unanswered.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe fact that many organizations cannot confidently answer the question “Did it actually work?” reflects how they are investing in AI products.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMost organizations are investing heavily in building—the work of generating, shipping and scaling products—because it is the most visible opportunity for AI automation. But the activities that happen before and after execution have not accelerated at the same rate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis means that organizations are becoming highly efficient at producing output while underinvesting in the activities that create understanding. In AI-driven product development the competitive advantage is shifting from implementation to judgment. The teams that pull ahead will not be those that build the most, but those that make better decisions before building and learn faster after shipping.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eHow to gain a competitive advantage in AI-powered product design\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe clearest way to understand this shift—away from solely building-focused and toward deeper understanding—is to look beyond roles and titles and focus on the underlying modes of work that shape every product organization:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFraming\u003c/strong\u003e defines what should be built, for whom and under what constraints.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBuilding\u003c/strong\u003e transforms those decisions into working products and experiences.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSensemaking\u003c/strong\u003e interprets what users actually do and turns those signals into better decisions for the next cycle.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHistorically, the cost of building constrained how quickly poor decisions could spread. AI changes that dynamic. As prototypes, features and interfaces become easier to generate, the work of framing the right problem and making sense of results is increasingly compressed, postponed or skipped entirely. When teams build faster than they learn, they amplify assumptions rather than insights.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eFraming\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFraming defines what gets built, for whom, with what trade-offs and in what form. The output is not a requirements document. It is a decision architecture: a set of constraints, priorities and validated assumptions that provide the baseline clarity needed to guide building without losing direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStrong decision architecture makes hard trade-offs explicit before building begins. It answers questions such as: which user segment are we solving for and which are we deliberately not? What does success look like in measurable terms? What existing behavior are we displacing and why would someone switch?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt also includes the structural design decisions that shape how users experience the product, including the information architecture, the primary user flows and the interaction model that determines whether the product feels coherent or fragmented.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWeak decision architecture defers these questions or worse, assumes alignment that does not exist. It forces the team to uncover disagreements mid-build, when the cost of changing direction has already increased significantly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis level of precision matters more than ever. When you send a vague prompt to an AI coding agent, it does not pause to ask for clarification. It builds confidently in the wrong direction. In a world of \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003eautonomous agents\u003c/a\u003e, ambiguity is the most expensive input in the system. It leads to repeated cycles, token overages and environmental impact. Framing reduces this ambiguity.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI makes it easier than ever to build directionless products at scale. Most teams will not resist this temptation. They will use AI to scale unclear thinking, generating more output without increasing value. The teams that succeed are those that become more selective, not less, as building becomes cheaper.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe planning trap\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen framing, it is important not to fall into the planning trap. Done well, framing creates clarity, alignment and direction. It ensures teams are solving the right problem before they start building.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe risk emerges when framing becomes disconnected from progress. A team can spend six weeks aligning on a strategy document, while a competitor tests and learns from a working version of the same idea. The work may be thorough, but its impact is reduced if it arrives too late.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI makes this tension more visible. Prototyping is now fast and accessible. When a working version can be created in an afternoon, the role of framing shifts. Its value is no longer in depth alone, but in how quickly it enables informed action.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStrong framing is therefore measured by what it unlocks. It should guide teams toward smarter decisions and faster learning, not delay them. The goal is not to move faster at the expense of thinking, but to ensure that thinking translates into progress.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eBuilding\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBuilding has shifted from a problem of implementation toward managing direction under conditions of rapid generation. It operates within constraints defined in Framing, translating intent into working systems and iterating as new information emerges.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe core challenge is no longer whether something can be built, but whether what’s built remains true to its intent and solves the problems it sought to address.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI systems can reliably generate outputs that compile correctly, follow the standards of good product design and appear—much like a movie set—to look complete and convincing from the right angle while lacking the structure behind the facade. Very quickly, problems emerge through accumulation: how features interact, how decisions compound and how progress in a consistent direction is preserved across repeated changes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe doom loop\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDuring any building phase, organizations should beware of the doom loop. A team may be tempted to begin prompting before it has clarified what it wants, changes direction mid-build and produces output so layered with conflicting decisions that no agent can untangle it. Starting over becomes cheaper than debugging. This is the clearest signal that the upstream work was skipped.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eSensemaking\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensemaking links outcomes to action by interpreting what occurred, why it occurred and what should change as a result. This function is one that organizations often underestimate until it is too late.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI can surface what happened, but it cannot yet adequately explain why. Why did adoption stall? Why does a feature resonate in one segment but not another? A designer who can read the gap between the story the team intended to tell and the story users are actually experiencing is doing the same sensemaking work as a researcher conducting interviews, but in a different medium. Without someone who can read those signals and translate them back into planning priorities, the team does not merely lose touch with the market, it also loses the ability to know whether it is succeeding. Internal metrics drift from external reality. The organization optimizes for numbers that no longer correspond to value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe narrative lock\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensemaking involves building compelling explanations for why things are working, and over time the organization stops questioning them. A product narrative that resonated six months ago can persist even as user behavior shifts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNew data that contradicts the story gets dismissed as noise because the story already has buy-in. Good stories are sticky. And sticky stories resist revision.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBy the time someone says, “Wait, that’s not what we’re seeing anymore,” the roadmap is already built on an outdated interpretation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the narrative lock. When sensemaking, it’s important to be actively aware of it—and deliberately work to avoid it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eRebalancing the system\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen execution becomes cheaper and faster, clarity becomes the limiting factor. For decades, software organizations were constrained by the cost of implementation. AI removes that constraint and exposes a new one: the capacity to learn fast enough to direct increasingly powerful systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe teams pulling ahead are those rebalancing their systems rather than chasing new tools. They strengthen framing to make trade-offs explicit before building begins, and they elevate sensemaking to interpret outcomes without falling into narrative traps. They treat tools like synthetic personas as accelerators of thinking, never replacements for human judgment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe goal is not additional process, but a tighter feedback loop: framing defines the problem, building tests the experience and sensemaking anchors the next cycle in reality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe new competitive advantage\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSpeed alone should never signal progress. True advantage belongs to organizations that can turn AI acceleration into sustained, compounding knowledge.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":86669,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-04-20 17:47:35","post_date_gmt":"2026-04-20 17:47:35","post_content":"","post_title":"Rustin Afshordi","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"rustin-afshordi","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-05-25 19:17:26","post_modified_gmt":"2026-05-25 19:17:26","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=86669","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Rustin Afshordi","bio":"\u003cp\u003eRustin is a leader in frog’s product management practice, where he balances strategy with execution to help teams cut through ambiguity and build net new products and experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHe holds a bachelor’s degree in economics from UC Santa Barbara and an MBA from NYU Stern. 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18:20:03","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header-150x150.gif","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header-300x115.gif","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header-768x294.gif","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header-1024x393.gif","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header.gif","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":552,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header.gif","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":552}},"videoFile":false,"title":"Learning Must Keep up With the Speed of AI","description":"Long-term value depends on investing in strategy, research and human judgment alongside AI-powered products.","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eThe rise of AI-driven product development has dramatically reduced the cost of \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/connected-world\"\u003ebuilding digital products\u003c/a\u003e, while the speed at which products can be built has also accelerated significantly. Features that once sat on roadmaps for months can now move from idea to production in days. Most organizations see this as a productivity breakthrough. In practice, however, it has exposed a gap in how organizations learn from what they build.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTeams are shipping more—and faster—often without pausing to understand what those outputs deliver. This shift has created a clear imbalance: organizations overinvest in building while underinvesting in learning. The result is constant motion without clear direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhat matters now is not just producing AI-driven products at scale but ensuring that every build generates knowledge that informs what comes next. Learning must keep pace with creation. Otherwise, rapid delivery becomes noise rather than value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eAI is accelerating output—but not understanding\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs AI amplifies the pace of development, organizations face growing pressure to keep up with competitors. Teams focus on output, assuming that understanding will follow. Often, it does not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA few months after a product ships, the same question emerges: did it actually work?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNot in the narrow sense of whether it shipped successfully or scaled reliably, but whether it created meaningful value. Did it solve the right problem? Did it change behavior? Did it produce an outcome anyone can clearly connect to the effort invested? Unfortunately, these questions often remain unanswered.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe fact that many organizations cannot confidently answer the question “Did it actually work?” reflects how they are investing in AI products.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMost organizations are investing heavily in building—the work of generating, shipping and scaling products—because it is the most visible opportunity for AI automation. But the activities that happen before and after execution have not accelerated at the same rate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis means that organizations are becoming highly efficient at producing output while underinvesting in the activities that create understanding. In AI-driven product development the competitive advantage is shifting from implementation to judgment. The teams that pull ahead will not be those that build the most, but those that make better decisions before building and learn faster after shipping.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eHow to gain a competitive advantage in AI-powered product design\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe clearest way to understand this shift—away from solely building-focused and toward deeper understanding—is to look beyond roles and titles and focus on the underlying modes of work that shape every product organization:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFraming\u003c/strong\u003e defines what should be built, for whom and under what constraints.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBuilding\u003c/strong\u003e transforms those decisions into working products and experiences.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSensemaking\u003c/strong\u003e interprets what users actually do and turns those signals into better decisions for the next cycle.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHistorically, the cost of building constrained how quickly poor decisions could spread. AI changes that dynamic. As prototypes, features and interfaces become easier to generate, the work of framing the right problem and making sense of results is increasingly compressed, postponed or skipped entirely. When teams build faster than they learn, they amplify assumptions rather than insights.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eFraming\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFraming defines what gets built, for whom, with what trade-offs and in what form. The output is not a requirements document. It is a decision architecture: a set of constraints, priorities and validated assumptions that provide the baseline clarity needed to guide building without losing direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStrong decision architecture makes hard trade-offs explicit before building begins. It answers questions such as: which user segment are we solving for and which are we deliberately not? What does success look like in measurable terms? What existing behavior are we displacing and why would someone switch?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt also includes the structural design decisions that shape how users experience the product, including the information architecture, the primary user flows and the interaction model that determines whether the product feels coherent or fragmented.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWeak decision architecture defers these questions or worse, assumes alignment that does not exist. It forces the team to uncover disagreements mid-build, when the cost of changing direction has already increased significantly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis level of precision matters more than ever. When you send a vague prompt to an AI coding agent, it does not pause to ask for clarification. It builds confidently in the wrong direction. In a world of \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003eautonomous agents\u003c/a\u003e, ambiguity is the most expensive input in the system. It leads to repeated cycles, token overages and environmental impact. Framing reduces this ambiguity.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI makes it easier than ever to build directionless products at scale. Most teams will not resist this temptation. They will use AI to scale unclear thinking, generating more output without increasing value. The teams that succeed are those that become more selective, not less, as building becomes cheaper.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe planning trap\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen framing, it is important not to fall into the planning trap. Done well, framing creates clarity, alignment and direction. It ensures teams are solving the right problem before they start building.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe risk emerges when framing becomes disconnected from progress. A team can spend six weeks aligning on a strategy document, while a competitor tests and learns from a working version of the same idea. The work may be thorough, but its impact is reduced if it arrives too late.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI makes this tension more visible. Prototyping is now fast and accessible. When a working version can be created in an afternoon, the role of framing shifts. Its value is no longer in depth alone, but in how quickly it enables informed action.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStrong framing is therefore measured by what it unlocks. It should guide teams toward smarter decisions and faster learning, not delay them. The goal is not to move faster at the expense of thinking, but to ensure that thinking translates into progress.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eBuilding\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBuilding has shifted from a problem of implementation toward managing direction under conditions of rapid generation. It operates within constraints defined in Framing, translating intent into working systems and iterating as new information emerges.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe core challenge is no longer whether something can be built, but whether what’s built remains true to its intent and solves the problems it sought to address.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI systems can reliably generate outputs that compile correctly, follow the standards of good product design and appear—much like a movie set—to look complete and convincing from the right angle while lacking the structure behind the facade. Very quickly, problems emerge through accumulation: how features interact, how decisions compound and how progress in a consistent direction is preserved across repeated changes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe doom loop\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDuring any building phase, organizations should beware of the doom loop. A team may be tempted to begin prompting before it has clarified what it wants, changes direction mid-build and produces output so layered with conflicting decisions that no agent can untangle it. Starting over becomes cheaper than debugging. This is the clearest signal that the upstream work was skipped.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eSensemaking\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensemaking links outcomes to action by interpreting what occurred, why it occurred and what should change as a result. This function is one that organizations often underestimate until it is too late.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI can surface what happened, but it cannot yet adequately explain why. Why did adoption stall? Why does a feature resonate in one segment but not another? A designer who can read the gap between the story the team intended to tell and the story users are actually experiencing is doing the same sensemaking work as a researcher conducting interviews, but in a different medium. Without someone who can read those signals and translate them back into planning priorities, the team does not merely lose touch with the market, it also loses the ability to know whether it is succeeding. Internal metrics drift from external reality. The organization optimizes for numbers that no longer correspond to value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe narrative lock\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensemaking involves building compelling explanations for why things are working, and over time the organization stops questioning them. A product narrative that resonated six months ago can persist even as user behavior shifts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNew data that contradicts the story gets dismissed as noise because the story already has buy-in. Good stories are sticky. And sticky stories resist revision.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBy the time someone says, “Wait, that’s not what we’re seeing anymore,” the roadmap is already built on an outdated interpretation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the narrative lock. When sensemaking, it’s important to be actively aware of it—and deliberately work to avoid it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eRebalancing the system\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen execution becomes cheaper and faster, clarity becomes the limiting factor. For decades, software organizations were constrained by the cost of implementation. AI removes that constraint and exposes a new one: the capacity to learn fast enough to direct increasingly powerful systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe teams pulling ahead are those rebalancing their systems rather than chasing new tools. They strengthen framing to make trade-offs explicit before building begins, and they elevate sensemaking to interpret outcomes without falling into narrative traps. They treat tools like synthetic personas as accelerators of thinking, never replacements for human judgment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe goal is not additional process, but a tighter feedback loop: framing defines the problem, building tests the experience and sensemaking anchors the next cycle in reality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe new competitive advantage\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSpeed alone should never signal progress. True advantage belongs to organizations that can turn AI acceleration into sustained, compounding knowledge.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"rustin-afshordi","authorName":"Rustin Afshordi","bio":"\u003cp\u003eRustin is a leader in frog’s product management practice, where he balances strategy with execution to help teams cut through ambiguity and build net new products and experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHe holds a bachelor’s degree in economics from UC Santa Barbara and an MBA from NYU Stern. Outside of work, he’s a casual golfer, wannabe musician, and can usually be found hiking in the Oakland hills with his adopted mutt, Phife Dog.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Director of Product Management, frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":86685,"title":"Rustin-Afshordi-author","filename":"Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","filesize":82429,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/rustin-afshordi/attachment/rustin-afshordi-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"rustin-afshordi-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86669,"date":"2026-04-20 17:50:05","modified":"2026-04-20 17:50:05","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":900,"height":900,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author-768x768.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":900,"1536X1536Height":900,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":900,"2048X2048Height":900}}},{"slug":"emma-brennan","authorName":"Emma Brennan","bio":"\u003cp\u003eEmma is a design lead specializing in interactions across physical and digital environments. Her work combines research, systems thinking, and experimentation to explore emerging forms of engagement with intelligent technologies, with projects spanning top organizations in tech, aviation, finance and online marketplaces.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Associate Design Director, frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":86671,"title":"Emma-Brennan-author","filename":"Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","filesize":82683,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/rustin-afshordi/attachment/emma-brennan-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"emma-brennan-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86669,"date":"2026-04-20 17:49:58","modified":"2026-04-20 17:49:58","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":900,"height":900,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author-768x768.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":900,"1536X1536Height":900,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":900,"2048X2048Height":900}}},{"slug":"erica-efstratoudakis","authorName":"Erica Efstratoudakis","bio":"\u003cp\u003eErica is a multidisciplinary design lead with over a decade of experience at the intersection of strategy, UX, and visual craft. She specializes in turning ambiguous, early-stage opportunities into clear, scalable product experiences that drive meaningful user and business outcomes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eCurrently an Associate Design Director at frog, she leads end-to-end design programs, from vision and alignment through to delivery. Erica thrives in complex spaces, using concepts, prototypes, and strategic rigor to help teams define what to build and why, and to create experiences that are both intuitive and emotionally resonant.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Associate Design Director, frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":86678,"title":"Erica-Efstratoudakis-author","filename":"Erica-Efstratoudakis-author.jpg","filesize":66108,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Erica-Efstratoudakis-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/rustin-afshordi/attachment/erica-efstratoudakis-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"erica-efstratoudakis-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86669,"date":"2026-04-20 17:50:01","modified":"2026-04-20 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Must Keep up With the Speed of AI","url":"/designmind/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai"},"featuredArticles":{"eyebrow":"Related work","useHomeData":false,"articles":[{"title":"Augmenting DesignOps with AI-Powered Design Systems","description":"Article","image":{"id":82821,"title":"Augmenting-DesignOps-share_image","filename":"Augmenting-DesignOps-share_image.png","filesize":579745,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Augmenting-DesignOps-share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/augmenting-designops-with-ai-powered-systems/attachment/augmenting-designops-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"augmenting-designops-share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":82550,"date":"2025-07-16 15:28:54","modified":"2025-07-16 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17:18:15","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1200,"height":630,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image-300x158.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":158,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image-768x403.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":336,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image-1024x538.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":336,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image.jpg","1536X1536Width":1200,"1536X1536Height":630,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image.jpg","2048X2048Width":1200,"2048X2048Height":630}},"cta":{"url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-58-when-human-connection-meets-ai","external":false,"extraClassNames":""}},{"title":"Retaining Human Knowledge with AI","description":"National Grid","image":{"id":86818,"title":"retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image","filename":"retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image.png","filesize":242335,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/work/retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai/attachment/retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85419,"date":"2026-04-30 18:27:06","modified":"2026-04-30 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18:46:15","modified":"2026-07-07 18:46:15","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-150x150.gif","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-300x115.gif","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-768x294.gif","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-1024x393.gif","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header.gif","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":552,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header.gif","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":552}},"video_file":false,"title":"Agentic Commerce Is Still Waiting For Its ChatGPT Moment","description":"With infrastructure being built for agentic commerce, we explore how global brands are preparing, the impact on consumers and the potential for rapid change.","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch2\u003eBuilding trust in agentic commerce: Where brands should begin\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe infrastructure for AI agents to browse and make purchases on behalf of humans is being built. Consumers are curious, some even enthusiastic, but the vast majority of us are not yet ready to hand over our wallets to an unproven technology. The smartest place for brands to start looks a lot more familiar.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat is agentic commerce?\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen ChatGPT launched in late 2022, it didn\u0026#8217;t just introduce a new capability, it finally gave consumers a mental model that they were comfortable with for \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003ehow to interact with AI\u003c/a\u003e. The ease of the chat interface unlocked mass adoption in a way that years of prior AI work had not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAgentic commerce (the idea of AI agents acting on your behalf to discover, evaluate and purchase products and services) has not yet had that moment. But the infrastructure is under construction. Visa and Mastercard are building agent payment rails while Amex is developing frameworks for autonomous transactions. But we are still waiting for the on ramp that placates consumer concerns and makes us feel comfortable giving an agent our credit card details.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://business.adobe.com/resources/digital-trends-consumer-report.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eAdobe\u0026#8217;s 2026 Digital Trends Consumer Report\u003c/a\u003e, a global survey of 4,000 consumers, quantifies that gap.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e22%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEarly adopters\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nFirst to try new tools. Use AI regularly—more than double the survey average.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003e~25% already have their own AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e61%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSecondary adopters\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nOpen to new technology when it proves useful but prefer to wait for broader adoption.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003eOnly 7% have their own AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e17%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eHoldouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAvoid new technology whenever possible or only use it when they have no choice.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003eMajority oppose creating an AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat tells us that the consumers who are genuinely agent-ready today are a minority within a minority. Even among the curious, Adobe\u0026#8217;s data reveals a significant gap between interest and intent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e43%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof consumers would be willing to try a brand’s AI personal concierge or agent if the service is offered.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e19%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ewant a future where AI agents become their primary way of interacting with brands.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis gap between those willing to try AI agents and those using them as their default option is the trust and experience gap the industry needs to close. But closing this gap is not a technology problem; it\u0026#8217;s a design problem.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eWhat early agentic commerce experiments reveal about consumer behavior\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOpenAI tested this boundary already and learned from it. In September 2025, the company launched Instant Checkout inside ChatGPT with Etsy and Shopify merchants, with Stripe powering the transaction layer. The premise made a lot of sense. Users already ask ChatGPT what to buy, so why route them somewhere else to pay? Six months later, the feature was quietly shelved. Users browsed in enormous numbers; they just didn\u0026#8217;t buy. Etsy, one of the first merchants to participate, confirmed it saw no meaningful sales volume from the feature.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eForrester\u0026#8217;s \u003ca href=\"https://www.forrester.com/webinar/the-state-of-agentic-commerce-2026/WEB192730?ref_search=3443252_1779375658718\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eState of Agentic Commerce, 2026\u003c/a\u003e reinforces why: among US consumers who regularly use answer engines, completing a purchase within the answer engine was the least-adopted use case. Coming in well behind asking general questions and researching products.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e“The discovery layer worked. The transaction layer did not. This isn’t a failure of agentic commerce—it’s a signal about sequencing.”\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e–\u003ca href=\"https://www.forrester.com/webinar/the-state-of-agentic-commerce-2026/WEB192730?ref_search=3443252_1779375658718\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eForrester (2026)\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eIn no way does this signal that OpenAI is abandoning commerce. These insights have revamped ChatGPT’s shopping experience to focus on discovery and comparison, which is an acknowledgment that this is where consumers are actually ready to engage.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe brands and platforms that will win in the agentic commerce era are those that use this window to earn trust, not assume it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eLeading brands are already taking the natural first step\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhile the industry debates the future, a commerce shift is already delivering real results by making use of a modality that consumers already enjoy. Agentic commerce will go far beyond conversation, but conversational experiences are emerging as the natural first step. This is because they translate emerging capability into behavior consumers already understand and embrace.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eUsing Google’s Gemini Enterprise for CX, Macy’s built “Ask Macy’s,” their multimodal AI shopping concierge, in just four weeks. The agent handles natural language queries, offers a virtual try-on feature and responds to nuanced prompts, such as ‘I’m petite, I value natural fabrics and I need something that works from the office to a dinner engagement.’ Early beta data shows revenue per visit was roughly \u003ca href=\"https://www.forbes.com/sites/renanaashkenazi/2026/03/30/macys-475x-shopping-jump-proves-ai-can-move-the-top-line/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e4.75 times higher\u003c/a\u003e among customers who engaged with Ask Macy’s compared to those who didn’t. This is a significant improvement in what the digital retail experience can deliver.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn the home furnishing sphere, IKEA deployed a conversational AI agent, “Billy,” to handle routine customer queries. Billy now handles \u003ca href=\"https://www.peoplematters.in/news/ai-and-emerging-tech/ai-replaces-routine-work-at-ikea-employees-move-into-new-roles-49091\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003earound 57% of interactions\u003c/a\u003e without human intervention. For the remaining 43%, IKEA learned that customers wanted advice–mostly related to interior design. So, IKEA reskilled the service workforce, turning employees into design consultants. The resulting paid consultancy offering has generated close to \u003ca href=\"https://www.storyboard18.com/brand-marketing/ikea-avoids-layoffs-ai-handles-routine-work-and-unlocks-new-revenue-stream-ws-l-94092.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e€1 billion in additional revenue\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWalmart has taken a different angle, embedding its “Sparky” assistant into its app. The company has also partnered with both OpenAI and Google to bring its product catalog into the discovery experience within ChatGPT and Gemini. In an internal survey, \u003ca href=\"https://www.adweek.com/commerce/walmart-opens-up-ads-in-gen-ai-shopping-agent-sparky/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e81% of Walmart customers\u003c/a\u003e said they used Sparky to check product availability or review specifications before purchasing. Tellingly, this is a behavior that is anchored in research rather than transactions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe discovery problem: don’t automate the best part\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOne of the most important tensions in agentic commerce is that some of what we’d term the friction in shopping isn’t friction at all; it’s the fun part, building anticipation and reinsurance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor many of us, the joy of a vacation begins long before the plane leaves the runway. A two-week stay becomes a month-long experience simply by planning the places we want to visit weeks earlier. We actually want to compare all those cruises and theme parks to make sure we’re not missing out on something better. But if an agent could book them for us in the blink of an eye, are we eliminating the anticipation and the deliberation that is part of the joy?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA well-crafted conversational commerce experience that is a first step toward agentic commerce can optimize the process while retaining the anticipatory magic. Instead of collapsing discovery into a transaction, it can enrich it, weaving in imagery, video and dynamic UI that creates something no static page can match. The goal isn’t efficiency alone; it’s discovery that feels as compelling as the purchase. And crucially, Adobe’s data shows that the option to hand off to a human remains important across all consumer types, even for early adopters. That preference for a safety valve is a design brief, not an obstacle.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eImagining new discovery experiences, each distinctly shaped by what a brand stands for and uniquely offers, will be one of the most effective ways to stay close to consumers and avoid full agentic disintermediation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eFrom push to pull: redesigning for the agentic era\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere’s a broader strategic shift embedded in all of this. For the past decade, personalization has been a fundamentally push model: brands tracked, listened and followed consumers, serving content that was often as creepy as it was useful. The era of AI-native marketing and agentic commerce inverts this. Customers call on the brand when they are ready. Today, that happens through a conversational interface; tomorrow, it will be through an agent. The brand’s job is to be findable, legible and compelling when that moment arrives. This requires brands to think differently about readiness: less of ‘how do we reach customers’ and more of ‘how do we make ourselves worth reaching.’\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eConversational commerce is the first practical place to build that muscle and to build the trust infrastructure that agentic commerce optimization will eventually require.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat step one actually looks like\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor brands ready to embrace agentic AI, the entry point is more accessible than it might seem. Replacing or augmenting on-site search with a conversational layer that handles discovery, answers nuanced questions and surfaces personalized content is buildable today. The design challenge, making it feel genuinely useful rather than like an overgrown chatbot, is the real challenge for brands. From there, a natural progression emerges: dynamic UI that responds to conversation context, integration with warm handoffs from LLM searches, contextual templates that adapt to different customer intents, and, ultimately, the payment and trust infrastructure that will underpin true agentic commerce protocols.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe brands that will be ready when agentic commerce finds its ChatGPT moment are the ones currently building the foundation. This is not because they are chasing a trend, but because conversational commerce is genuinely better for their customers today.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe think that Dynamic or Contextual UI has a big role to play in the future of both Agentic Commerce and AI Native Products and Services. Stay tuned for the next article, we will write more about this.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":47843,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2022-10-13 15:45:26","post_date_gmt":"2022-10-13 15:45:26","post_content":"","post_title":"Clément Lacroix","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"clement-lacroix","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-08-12 18:44:14","post_modified_gmt":"2026-08-12 18:44:14","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=47843","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Clément Lacroix ","bio":"\u003cp\u003eClément is a Vice President at frog, part of Capgemini Invent, and is based in New York. He serves as the global lead for frog’s Experience Everywhere offer, an approach designed to craft, deliver, and transform iconic experiences for iconic brands. Clement has worked across various industries, including retail, hospitality, financial services, and automotive, and has managed teams of customer experience specialists, designers, and technologists creating lasting impact for multiple brands. He was previously based in France, where he notably led the launch of a mobile bank.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Vice President, Customer Experience, Digital Strategy and Transformation, frog","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":83062,"id":83062,"title":"Clement_Lacroix-author","filename":"Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","filesize":50250,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/clement-lacroix/attachment/clement_lacroix-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"clement_lacroix-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":47843,"date":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","modified":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":800,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-768x768.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":640,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","1536x1536-width":800,"1536x1536-height":800,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","2048x2048-width":800,"2048x2048-height":800}}},"author_featured":[{"ID":47760,"post_author":"36","post_date":"2022-11-02 17:32:00","post_date_gmt":"2022-11-02 17:32:00","post_content":"","post_title":"Transforming Your B2B Experience with ABM","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"transforming-your-b2b-experience-with-abm","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2024-01-10 22:59:48","post_modified_gmt":"2024-01-10 22:59:48","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=designmind\u0026#038;p=47760","menu_order":0,"post_type":"designmind","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw"}]},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/clement-lacroix/"},{"ID":36590,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2021-10-11 18:51:43","post_date_gmt":"2021-10-11 18:51:43","post_content":"","post_title":"Jess Leitch","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"jessica-leitch","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-08-12 18:43:35","post_modified_gmt":"2026-08-12 18:43:35","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=36590","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Jess Leitch","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of frog North America, Jess is responsible for leading the frog business in North America. With a background in Service Design, Jess has spent the past 15 years leading teams in the design and launch of new products, services and businesses. Prior to frog, Jess was the Head of Service Design and Head of Studio at idean. Originally from Sydney, Australia, she lived in London for a number of years before moving to the US in 2019. In London, she received her Masters in Service Design.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Managing Director, frog North America","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":36591,"id":36591,"title":"jessica-leitch","filename":"jessica-leitch.png","filesize":61348,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/attachment/jessica-leitch/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jessica-leitch","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":36590,"date":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","modified":"2021-10-11 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Commerce Is Still Waiting For Its ChatGPT Moment","description":"With infrastructure being built for agentic commerce, we explore how global brands are preparing, the impact on consumers and the potential for rapid change.","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch2\u003eBuilding trust in agentic commerce: Where brands should begin\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe infrastructure for AI agents to browse and make purchases on behalf of humans is being built. Consumers are curious, some even enthusiastic, but the vast majority of us are not yet ready to hand over our wallets to an unproven technology. The smartest place for brands to start looks a lot more familiar.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat is agentic commerce?\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen ChatGPT launched in late 2022, it didn\u0026#8217;t just introduce a new capability, it finally gave consumers a mental model that they were comfortable with for \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003ehow to interact with AI\u003c/a\u003e. The ease of the chat interface unlocked mass adoption in a way that years of prior AI work had not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAgentic commerce (the idea of AI agents acting on your behalf to discover, evaluate and purchase products and services) has not yet had that moment. But the infrastructure is under construction. Visa and Mastercard are building agent payment rails while Amex is developing frameworks for autonomous transactions. But we are still waiting for the on ramp that placates consumer concerns and makes us feel comfortable giving an agent our credit card details.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://business.adobe.com/resources/digital-trends-consumer-report.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eAdobe\u0026#8217;s 2026 Digital Trends Consumer Report\u003c/a\u003e, a global survey of 4,000 consumers, quantifies that gap.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e22%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEarly adopters\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nFirst to try new tools. Use AI regularly—more than double the survey average.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003e~25% already have their own AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e61%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSecondary adopters\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nOpen to new technology when it proves useful but prefer to wait for broader adoption.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003eOnly 7% have their own AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e17%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eHoldouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAvoid new technology whenever possible or only use it when they have no choice.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003eMajority oppose creating an AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat tells us that the consumers who are genuinely agent-ready today are a minority within a minority. Even among the curious, Adobe\u0026#8217;s data reveals a significant gap between interest and intent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e43%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof consumers would be willing to try a brand’s AI personal concierge or agent if the service is offered.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e19%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ewant a future where AI agents become their primary way of interacting with brands.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis gap between those willing to try AI agents and those using them as their default option is the trust and experience gap the industry needs to close. But closing this gap is not a technology problem; it\u0026#8217;s a design problem.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eWhat early agentic commerce experiments reveal about consumer behavior\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOpenAI tested this boundary already and learned from it. In September 2025, the company launched Instant Checkout inside ChatGPT with Etsy and Shopify merchants, with Stripe powering the transaction layer. The premise made a lot of sense. Users already ask ChatGPT what to buy, so why route them somewhere else to pay? Six months later, the feature was quietly shelved. Users browsed in enormous numbers; they just didn\u0026#8217;t buy. Etsy, one of the first merchants to participate, confirmed it saw no meaningful sales volume from the feature.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eForrester\u0026#8217;s \u003ca href=\"https://www.forrester.com/webinar/the-state-of-agentic-commerce-2026/WEB192730?ref_search=3443252_1779375658718\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eState of Agentic Commerce, 2026\u003c/a\u003e reinforces why: among US consumers who regularly use answer engines, completing a purchase within the answer engine was the least-adopted use case. Coming in well behind asking general questions and researching products.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e“The discovery layer worked. The transaction layer did not. This isn’t a failure of agentic commerce—it’s a signal about sequencing.”\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e–\u003ca href=\"https://www.forrester.com/webinar/the-state-of-agentic-commerce-2026/WEB192730?ref_search=3443252_1779375658718\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eForrester (2026)\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eIn no way does this signal that OpenAI is abandoning commerce. These insights have revamped ChatGPT’s shopping experience to focus on discovery and comparison, which is an acknowledgment that this is where consumers are actually ready to engage.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe brands and platforms that will win in the agentic commerce era are those that use this window to earn trust, not assume it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eLeading brands are already taking the natural first step\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhile the industry debates the future, a commerce shift is already delivering real results by making use of a modality that consumers already enjoy. Agentic commerce will go far beyond conversation, but conversational experiences are emerging as the natural first step. This is because they translate emerging capability into behavior consumers already understand and embrace.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eUsing Google’s Gemini Enterprise for CX, Macy’s built “Ask Macy’s,” their multimodal AI shopping concierge, in just four weeks. The agent handles natural language queries, offers a virtual try-on feature and responds to nuanced prompts, such as ‘I’m petite, I value natural fabrics and I need something that works from the office to a dinner engagement.’ Early beta data shows revenue per visit was roughly \u003ca href=\"https://www.forbes.com/sites/renanaashkenazi/2026/03/30/macys-475x-shopping-jump-proves-ai-can-move-the-top-line/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e4.75 times higher\u003c/a\u003e among customers who engaged with Ask Macy’s compared to those who didn’t. This is a significant improvement in what the digital retail experience can deliver.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn the home furnishing sphere, IKEA deployed a conversational AI agent, “Billy,” to handle routine customer queries. Billy now handles \u003ca href=\"https://www.peoplematters.in/news/ai-and-emerging-tech/ai-replaces-routine-work-at-ikea-employees-move-into-new-roles-49091\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003earound 57% of interactions\u003c/a\u003e without human intervention. For the remaining 43%, IKEA learned that customers wanted advice–mostly related to interior design. So, IKEA reskilled the service workforce, turning employees into design consultants. The resulting paid consultancy offering has generated close to \u003ca href=\"https://www.storyboard18.com/brand-marketing/ikea-avoids-layoffs-ai-handles-routine-work-and-unlocks-new-revenue-stream-ws-l-94092.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e€1 billion in additional revenue\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWalmart has taken a different angle, embedding its “Sparky” assistant into its app. The company has also partnered with both OpenAI and Google to bring its product catalog into the discovery experience within ChatGPT and Gemini. In an internal survey, \u003ca href=\"https://www.adweek.com/commerce/walmart-opens-up-ads-in-gen-ai-shopping-agent-sparky/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e81% of Walmart customers\u003c/a\u003e said they used Sparky to check product availability or review specifications before purchasing. Tellingly, this is a behavior that is anchored in research rather than transactions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe discovery problem: don’t automate the best part\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOne of the most important tensions in agentic commerce is that some of what we’d term the friction in shopping isn’t friction at all; it’s the fun part, building anticipation and reinsurance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor many of us, the joy of a vacation begins long before the plane leaves the runway. A two-week stay becomes a month-long experience simply by planning the places we want to visit weeks earlier. We actually want to compare all those cruises and theme parks to make sure we’re not missing out on something better. But if an agent could book them for us in the blink of an eye, are we eliminating the anticipation and the deliberation that is part of the joy?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA well-crafted conversational commerce experience that is a first step toward agentic commerce can optimize the process while retaining the anticipatory magic. Instead of collapsing discovery into a transaction, it can enrich it, weaving in imagery, video and dynamic UI that creates something no static page can match. The goal isn’t efficiency alone; it’s discovery that feels as compelling as the purchase. And crucially, Adobe’s data shows that the option to hand off to a human remains important across all consumer types, even for early adopters. That preference for a safety valve is a design brief, not an obstacle.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eImagining new discovery experiences, each distinctly shaped by what a brand stands for and uniquely offers, will be one of the most effective ways to stay close to consumers and avoid full agentic disintermediation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eFrom push to pull: redesigning for the agentic era\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere’s a broader strategic shift embedded in all of this. For the past decade, personalization has been a fundamentally push model: brands tracked, listened and followed consumers, serving content that was often as creepy as it was useful. The era of AI-native marketing and agentic commerce inverts this. Customers call on the brand when they are ready. Today, that happens through a conversational interface; tomorrow, it will be through an agent. The brand’s job is to be findable, legible and compelling when that moment arrives. This requires brands to think differently about readiness: less of ‘how do we reach customers’ and more of ‘how do we make ourselves worth reaching.’\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eConversational commerce is the first practical place to build that muscle and to build the trust infrastructure that agentic commerce optimization will eventually require.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat step one actually looks like\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor brands ready to embrace agentic AI, the entry point is more accessible than it might seem. Replacing or augmenting on-site search with a conversational layer that handles discovery, answers nuanced questions and surfaces personalized content is buildable today. The design challenge, making it feel genuinely useful rather than like an overgrown chatbot, is the real challenge for brands. From there, a natural progression emerges: dynamic UI that responds to conversation context, integration with warm handoffs from LLM searches, contextual templates that adapt to different customer intents, and, ultimately, the payment and trust infrastructure that will underpin true agentic commerce protocols.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe brands that will be ready when agentic commerce finds its ChatGPT moment are the ones currently building the foundation. This is not because they are chasing a trend, but because conversational commerce is genuinely better for their customers today.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe think that Dynamic or Contextual UI has a big role to play in the future of both Agentic Commerce and AI Native Products and Services. Stay tuned for the next article, we will write more about this.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"clement-lacroix","authorName":"Clément Lacroix ","bio":"\u003cp\u003eClément is a Vice President at frog, part of Capgemini Invent, and is based in New York. He serves as the global lead for frog’s Experience Everywhere offer, an approach designed to craft, deliver, and transform iconic experiences for iconic brands. Clement has worked across various industries, including retail, hospitality, financial services, and automotive, and has managed teams of customer experience specialists, designers, and technologists creating lasting impact for multiple brands. He was previously based in France, where he notably led the launch of a mobile bank.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Vice President, Customer Experience, Digital Strategy and Transformation, frog","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":83062,"title":"Clement_Lacroix-author","filename":"Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","filesize":50250,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/clement-lacroix/attachment/clement_lacroix-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"clement_lacroix-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":47843,"date":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","modified":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":800,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-768x768.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":800,"1536X1536Height":800,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":800,"2048X2048Height":800}}},{"slug":"jessica-leitch","authorName":"Jess Leitch","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of frog North America, Jess is responsible for leading the frog business in North America. With a background in Service Design, Jess has spent the past 15 years leading teams in the design and launch of new products, services and businesses. Prior to frog, Jess was the Head of Service Design and Head of Studio at idean. Originally from Sydney, Australia, she lived in London for a number of years before moving to the US in 2019. In London, she received her Masters in Service Design.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Managing Director, frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":36591,"title":"jessica-leitch","filename":"jessica-leitch.png","filesize":61348,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/attachment/jessica-leitch/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jessica-leitch","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":36590,"date":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","modified":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":500,"height":500,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-300x300.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","mediumLargeWidth":500,"mediumLargeHeight":500,"large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","largeWidth":500,"largeHeight":500,"1536X1536":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","1536X1536Width":500,"1536X1536Height":500,"2048X2048":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","2048X2048Width":500,"2048X2048Height":500}}}]},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true}],"ifRelated":{"image":{"id":87735,"title":"agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image","filename":"agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","filesize":226657,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment/attachment/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87240,"date":"2026-07-07 18:49:03","modified":"2026-07-07 18:49:03","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1200,"height":630,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image-300x158.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":158,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image-768x403.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":336,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image-1024x538.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":336,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","1536X1536Width":1200,"1536X1536Height":630,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","2048X2048Width":1200,"2048X2048Height":630}},"imageOneByOne":false,"imageThreeByFour":false,"imageTwoByOne":false,"title":"Article","description":"Agentic Commerce Is Still Waiting For Its ChatGPT Moment","url":"/designmind/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment"},"featuredArticles":{"eyebrow":"Related work","useHomeData":false,"articles":[{"title":"Rewriting the Playbook for Agentic AI","description":"Article","image":{"id":86610,"title":"WEFxAI_share_image","filename":"WEFxAI_share_image.png","filesize":539982,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai/attachment/wefxai_share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"wefxai_share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85595,"date":"2026-04-15 17:37:33","modified":"2026-04-15 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","external":false,"extraClassNames":""}}],"cta":{"text":"","url":"","external":false}}},"offeringTags":[646,316],"sectorTags":[45,46,52],"authorTags":[438,540]},{"id":87598,"slug":"the-atomic-marketing-organization","date":"2026-07-06T08:18:00","acf":{"designmind_building_blocks":[{"acf_fc_layout":"designmind_header_block","designmind_header":{"image":{"ID":87698,"id":87698,"title":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header","filename":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","filesize":14423289,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-atomic-marketing-organization/attachment/atomic-marketing-organization_header/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"atomic-marketing-organization_header","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87598,"date":"2026-07-03 18:37:46","modified":"2026-07-03 18:37:46","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-150x150.gif","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-300x115.gif","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-768x294.gif","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-1024x393.gif","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":552,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":552}},"video_file":false,"title":"The Atomic Marketing Organization","description":"How marketing executives can reclaim outcome leadership through a fundamental new operating model.","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eMarketing is living through two changes at once, and they are pulling against each other.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first is the rapid expansion of what the function can actually do. Generative and agentic AI have moved \u003ca href=\"https://www.weforum.org/publications/ai-agents-in-action-foundations-for-evaluation-and-governance/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003efrom internal pilots into production work\u003c/a\u003e in less than two years. Agentic AI in particular is rapidly \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003erewriting traditional playbooks\u003c/a\u003e. Content, audience modelling, optimization, and even the orchestration of full campaigns are now within reach of a small team at a speed that, a few quarters ago, would have been treated as an ambition rather than a reality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second is the relative stillness of the structure built to carry that capability. Most marketing organizations still run on a role-based, department-shaped chart designed for a world of scarce expertise, manual production and sequential handoffs. It is, in effect, the operating model of a different decade trying to absorb the physics of this one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis combination produces a function in growing tension with itself. The technology is ready to run, but the structure is not built to carry it. That tension also creates an opening. For the first time in two decades, there is a credible reason, and a viable way, to rebuild the marketing organization from first principles. The change is not cosmetic; it begins with the unit of marketing work itself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe shape now emerging across early adopters has a single name: \u003cstrong\u003eatomic\u003c/strong\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"Marketing has spent two decades scaling by adding layers. The next decade will scale by removing them.\"","author":"Tim van der Galiën, Director Marketing \u0026 CX, frog"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eWhy the old structure is breaking\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBefore describing the new model, it is worth being precise about why the existing one is failing. The cause is structural, not cultural. The marketing function has accumulated \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/insights/from-complexity-to-clarity-how-cmos-can-reclaim-marketing-to-build-competitive-edge\"\u003emore complexity than the role-based chart was ever built to hold\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe figures in Capgemini Research Institute\u0026#8217;s ‘\u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/insights/research-library/cmo-playbook-2025/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eCMO Playbook 2025\u003c/a\u003e’ describe the situation directly:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e64%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof CMOs say overcrowded MarTech is a key barrier to creating real customer experiences\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e30%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof organizations effectively use their internal data in marketing\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e42%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003esay their org structure leads to duplication of effort\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e40%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof marketer time is spent on reporting, not on building experiences\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTaken together, these numbers describe a function spending most of its energy operating itself. The system absorbs the attention that should be going into the work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAdding another channel lead, another platform or transformation program does not resolve this. The geometry of the org chart is the issue. With its sequential handoffs, briefs and approval queues, role-based marketing, was a thoughtful twentieth-century response to scarce expertise. In 2026, that scarcity is no more, and the same is true of execution. The scarce input is \u003cem\u003ejudgement\u003c/em\u003e: taste, brand instinct, and an informed view on what to do next.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe new organization needs to be built around the scarce input rather than the abundant one. This pattern is not unique to marketing. \u003ca href=\"https://news.microsoft.com/annual-work-trend-index-2026/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eMicrosoft\u0026#8217;s 2026 Work Trend Index\u003c/a\u003e, drawn from 20,000 workers and trillions of Microsoft 365 productivity signals, identifies a small group of organizations the report calls “Frontier Firms.” They are human-led and agent-operated firms now pulling ahead of the competition. The most striking finding for any leader thinking about structure is that organizational factors, including culture, manager support and how talent is developed, account for more than twice the AI impact of individual capability and mindset combined. The conclusion is direct: The constraint on most enterprises today is not the people but rather the operating model around them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe atomic marketing organization is the marketing function\u0026#8217;s version of that operating model. It is the structure built to convert agentic capability into compounding value, by design rather than by accident.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat \u0026#8220;atomic\u0026#8221; actually means\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe unit of marketing work is changing in shape. Where it was once a \u003cem\u003erole\u003c/em\u003e surrounded by upstream and downstream handoffs, it is rapidly becoming an \u003cem\u003eatom\u003c/em\u003e. An atom is one whole role with full ownership of an outcome, supported by a team of agents that carry out the execution work that used to require a traditional team behind it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAtoms do not sit inside fixed departments. They cluster into hubs: small, composable groups that form around a clear outcome and dissolve again when priorities move on.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"image_caption_block","image":{"ID":87716,"id":87716,"title":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03","filename":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","filesize":104676,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-atomic-marketing-organization/attachment/atomic-marketing-organization_diagram_updated_03/","alt":"","author":"16","description":"","caption":"","name":"atomic-marketing-organization_diagram_updated_03","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87598,"date":"2026-07-06 11:50:57","modified":"2026-07-06 11:50:57","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":550,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-300x115.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-768x293.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":244,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-1024x391.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":244,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":550,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":550}},"caption":"Organizing atomic marketers into connected hubs","image_alignment":"center"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eMost organizations piloting this model converge on a small set of named hubs.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"padding: 10px 0;\"\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCMO hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThis hub sets strategic direction, adds nuances to priorities, and then cascades these to other hubs. This is a continuous rather than a one off or intermittent action.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe CMO Hub has a downstream responsibility to other hubs (brand, outcome, frontier etc.), but it also has a peer-level responsibility to the organization’s other functions and capabilities.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBrand \u0026amp; Creative hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe purpose of this hub is to protect the outward-facing brand identity. It is responsible for setting guidelines on how to do this, how to create and generate content, how to express this identity, and how to train other hubs to use it (e.g., in approved brand assets). It also produces unprompted, unconventional ideas that fuel the organization.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOutcome hubs\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThis hub is typically organized around acquisition and retention, owning growth from end to end and carrying full authority over budget, experiments and performance.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFrontier hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe frontier hub exists to keep evolving how marketing is done as the technology underneath it continues to move.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eEach atom is a person carrying judgement, supported by an orchestrator agent responsible for the orchestration of the marketers\u0026#8217; responsibility and workflow. The execution lies with the marketers, their colleagues, and other agents. The hubs are designed to breathe, expanding and contracting around the priorities of the business rather than around legacy reporting lines.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eMarketers become Outcome Leaders\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eInside an atomic organization, the job of the marketer changes shape with the structure. The role is no longer defined by what the marketer produces. It is defined by the outcome the marketer owns. Outcome Leaders set the growth hypothesis, steer the agentic workforce toward the priorities they have chosen and intervene at the points where human judgement matters most. The craft has not disappeared; it has moved further up the workflow, into ideas, decisions and the design of the work itself. As a result, the marketer’s responsibility is no longer just a piece of the workflow; it has become intertwined end-to-end with it (from ideas, decisions, and design to judging, steering, and adapting), leading to an outcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Four characteristics that define the marketer as an Outcome Leader","description":"","numbered_sections":[{"title":"Own the outcome, end to end, from acquisition through retention","content":""},{"title":"Steer the workflow, taking responsibility for translating market signal into agent-led execution","content":""},{"title":"Evaluate performance against compute, treating the cost and quality of agentic work as a metric they actively manage","content":""},{"title":"Create the never-seen-before brand moments that no AI can originate on its own","content":"\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFour characteristics that define the marketer as an Outcome Leader. They own the outcome, end to end, from acquisition through retention. They steer the workflow, taking responsibility for translating market signal into agent-led execution. They evaluate performance against compute, treating the cost and quality of agentic work as a metric they actively manage. And they create the never-seen-before brand moments that no AI can originate on its own.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the role most marketers find genuinely energizing once they step into it. The work becomes less about production and more about authorship.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Six principles of the atomic model","description":"The atomic organization is best described as a set of design principles that shape the work, the roles and the structure together. Six of them define how the model behaves in practice.","numbered_sections":[{"title":"Every role becomes whole ","content":"\u003cp\u003eMarketing roles are designed as indivisible units of value. One person, one outcome, with the relay race between specialists collapsed into a single point of ownership.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Decision authority is visibly embedded ","content":"\u003cp\u003eEvery decision in the agentic model has a human owner already named inside the role. Responsibility is traceable through ownership, not enforced through additional approval checkpoints.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"The organization becomes composable ","content":"\u003cp\u003eOutcome hubs form, dissolve and re-form as priorities shift. The execution layer carries data, brand rules and workflows across every initiative, so consistency is preserved as the structure flexes.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"The model is in constant evolution ","content":"\u003cp\u003eNew capability arrives faster than any reorganization cycle can keep up with. Workflow designers become a core role, applying AI thoughtfully into the day-to-day work of marketers as the technology continues to move.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Scaling stops being a resource constraint ","content":"\u003cp\u003eWith agents carrying execution, adding a market or doubling output is no longer a headcount decision. More energy can be directed through the system to lift volume without lifting the budget line in proportion.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Human capacity becomes premium ","content":"\u003cp\u003eHuman time is no longer absorbed by the operation of the system. It is reserved for moments of authentic creativity and high-judgement decision making. Premium, protected, deliberate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThree of these principles, taken together, change how a CMO has to think about growth: scaling, decision authority and human capacity. Scaling becomes a question of system capacity rather than a question of hiring, because the execution layer absorbs the volume. For the organizations doing this seriously, that layer is an AI-native marketing system, and frog has a solution to that need. Decision authority becomes visible again, because each atom has a clearly named human at the center of it. And human capacity, released from production cycles, becomes the premium resource it was always intended to be —an input to protect rather than a cost to optimize first.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"The model is designed to the company that adopts it. It is always in motion, because the priorities of the business are. \"","author":"Steve Hewett, Global Leader, Customer Data \u0026 Technology, frog"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eWhat it costs to get there\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNo marketing organization redraws itself over a weekend. The atomic model is best understood as an evolution that runs parallel to the existing organization. Most adopters begin with a single outcome hub, which is set up next to the legacy structure, with a clear adoption target. When that hub meets its bar, a second one follows. The Brand \u0026amp; Creative and Frontier hubs come later, once there is enough running for them to plug into.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe harder work usually sits one level down from the structure itself. It is the redefinition of the role the structure forces upon the team. Outcome ownership replaces campaign management, full-stack craft replaces channel specialization and workflow design replaces process management. In most cases the people moving into the new shapes are the same people who were already in the function. The transformation work happens inside individual careers, and the org chart is the visible trace of it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere is also a governance question to answer before the model can scale safely. When agents carry execution, someone still has to carry the judgement around brand, claims and risk. The atomic model only works if every atom has a clearly defined human, ownership, autonomy, role, and judgement at its center. Without that, the organization has built a faster way to ship work it cannot defend.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhy the model works, and where to start\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe atomic organization is designed to fit the company that adopts it. The workflows and the team configuration are set against whatever the CMO has named as priority for the period. As those priorities shift, so does the model. It is built to be in evolution, not to be deployed once and set in stone.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt holds up across very different organizational shapes. It works inside a 30-person marketing function and inside a 300-person one. It works inside a Fortune 500 and inside a challenger brand. The structure flexes with the priorities of the business. The unit of work, the atom, stays the same.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGovernance and decision authority are implied in the roles and enabled through the execution layer. frog’s AI-native marketing solution unifies data, brand rules, and workflow guardrails across hubs, ensuring CMOs retain control as agentic capabilities scale. Human and AI accountability stays clear at every level, because the human owner of each judgement call is named inside the role rather than added on top through extra process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor CMOs and marketing leaders sitting with all of this, the place to start is not the org chart. It is a single outcome the function is going to own end to end in the next quarter, and the small group of people, with the right agentic support around them, who will own it together. One hub. One clear outcome. A defined adoption target that decides whether the function commits to a second hub after it. That is the lightest credible entry into the model, and the one that does the most to demonstrate what the rest of the organization could become.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe remainder of the journey is one of authorship. The new structure can be drawn deliberately, by the function itself, on its own terms and with the people already in it. Or it can be drawn later, by someone outside the function, on conditions the function will have to accept. Frontier Firms, in the Microsoft sense, are the ones already doing the first version of that work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eNext in this series\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRight now, it is vital that marketers reduce as much complexity as possible to facilitate the transition into an atomic marketing organization. The atomic model enables workflows and team structures to evolve alongside shifting priorities. But this is just the first step forward. Next, organizations will bridge data, workflows, content, analytics, and AI tools to create a single source of truth. We’ll get into the multivalent benefits of this in the next article in this \u003cstrong\u003eAI-Native Marketing\u003c/strong\u003e series.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStay tuned for a focus on the return of the single marketer workflow to learn how the marketing stack is collapsing into a single working environment.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":87600,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-06-30 16:53:16","post_date_gmt":"2026-06-30 16:53:16","post_content":"","post_title":"Tim van der Galiën","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"tim-van-der-galien","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-07-02 16:57:21","post_modified_gmt":"2026-07-02 16:57:21","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=87600","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Tim van der Galiën","bio":"\u003cp\u003eTim works with Marketing \u0026#038; Digital leaders to uncover growth opportunities and deliver exceptional innovations and experiences. He specializes in the marketing domain and can connect strategy to data, technology and AI—and does this by fusing art and science together. Tim leads the Customer Data \u0026#038; Technology team at frog, developing advanced capabilities in MarTech and AI-powered innovations that help clients make their mark. Above all, Tim believes in using innovation to bring more positivity and joy to how people experience the world around them. \u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Director Marketing \u0026 CX, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":87655,"id":87655,"title":"Tim-van-der-Galien-author","filename":"Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","filesize":290492,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/tim-van-der-galien/attachment/tim-van-der-galien-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"tim-van-der-galien-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87600,"date":"2026-07-01 18:17:47","modified":"2026-07-01 18:17:47","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":800,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author-768x768.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":640,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","1536x1536-width":800,"1536x1536-height":800,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","2048x2048-width":800,"2048x2048-height":800}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/tim-van-der-galien/"},{"ID":87603,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-06-30 16:56:11","post_date_gmt":"2026-06-30 16:56:11","post_content":"","post_title":"Steve Hewett","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"steve-hewett","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-07-02 16:58:25","post_modified_gmt":"2026-07-02 16:58:25","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=87603","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Steve Hewett","bio":"\u003cp\u003eSteve is the Global Technology, Data \u0026#038; AI Leader at frog, part of Capgemini Invent. An expert in CX strategy and digital architecture, he guides organizations across diverse industries—from retail to defense—in building innovative, AI-native products, services \u0026#038; ways of working. Apply the latest breakthrough technologies like Gen AI and agentic AI, Steve helps clients in redefining customer experiences and enhancing the performance of their marketing, loyalty, commerce and frontline operations. \u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Global Leader, Customer Data \u0026 Technology, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":87605,"id":87605,"title":"author-steve-hewett","filename":"author-steve-hewett.jpg","filesize":169960,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/steve-hewett/attachment/author-steve-hewett/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"author-steve-hewett","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87603,"date":"2026-06-30 16:59:39","modified":"2026-06-30 16:59:39","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":600,"height":600,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","medium_large-width":600,"medium_large-height":600,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","large-width":600,"large-height":600,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","1536x1536-width":600,"1536x1536-height":600,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","2048x2048-width":600,"2048x2048-height":600}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/steve-hewett/"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true}],"if_related":{"image":{"ID":87684,"id":87684,"title":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_share-image","filename":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_share-image.jpg","filesize":179222,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_share-image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-atomic-marketing-organization/attachment/atomic-marketing-organization_share-image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"atomic-marketing-organization_share-image","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87598,"date":"2026-07-03 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18:37:46","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-150x150.gif","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-300x115.gif","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-768x294.gif","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-1024x393.gif","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":552,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":552}},"videoFile":false,"title":"The Atomic Marketing Organization","description":"How marketing executives can reclaim outcome leadership through a fundamental new operating model.","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eMarketing is living through two changes at once, and they are pulling against each other.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first is the rapid expansion of what the function can actually do. Generative and agentic AI have moved \u003ca href=\"https://www.weforum.org/publications/ai-agents-in-action-foundations-for-evaluation-and-governance/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003efrom internal pilots into production work\u003c/a\u003e in less than two years. Agentic AI in particular is rapidly \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003erewriting traditional playbooks\u003c/a\u003e. Content, audience modelling, optimization, and even the orchestration of full campaigns are now within reach of a small team at a speed that, a few quarters ago, would have been treated as an ambition rather than a reality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second is the relative stillness of the structure built to carry that capability. Most marketing organizations still run on a role-based, department-shaped chart designed for a world of scarce expertise, manual production and sequential handoffs. It is, in effect, the operating model of a different decade trying to absorb the physics of this one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis combination produces a function in growing tension with itself. The technology is ready to run, but the structure is not built to carry it. That tension also creates an opening. For the first time in two decades, there is a credible reason, and a viable way, to rebuild the marketing organization from first principles. The change is not cosmetic; it begins with the unit of marketing work itself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe shape now emerging across early adopters has a single name: \u003cstrong\u003eatomic\u003c/strong\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"Marketing has spent two decades scaling by adding layers. The next decade will scale by removing them.\"","author":"Tim van der Galiën, Director Marketing \u0026 CX, frog"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eWhy the old structure is breaking\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBefore describing the new model, it is worth being precise about why the existing one is failing. The cause is structural, not cultural. The marketing function has accumulated \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/insights/from-complexity-to-clarity-how-cmos-can-reclaim-marketing-to-build-competitive-edge\"\u003emore complexity than the role-based chart was ever built to hold\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe figures in Capgemini Research Institute\u0026#8217;s ‘\u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/insights/research-library/cmo-playbook-2025/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eCMO Playbook 2025\u003c/a\u003e’ describe the situation directly:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e64%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof CMOs say overcrowded MarTech is a key barrier to creating real customer experiences\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e30%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof organizations effectively use their internal data in marketing\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e42%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003esay their org structure leads to duplication of effort\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e40%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof marketer time is spent on reporting, not on building experiences\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTaken together, these numbers describe a function spending most of its energy operating itself. The system absorbs the attention that should be going into the work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAdding another channel lead, another platform or transformation program does not resolve this. The geometry of the org chart is the issue. With its sequential handoffs, briefs and approval queues, role-based marketing, was a thoughtful twentieth-century response to scarce expertise. In 2026, that scarcity is no more, and the same is true of execution. The scarce input is \u003cem\u003ejudgement\u003c/em\u003e: taste, brand instinct, and an informed view on what to do next.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe new organization needs to be built around the scarce input rather than the abundant one. This pattern is not unique to marketing. \u003ca href=\"https://news.microsoft.com/annual-work-trend-index-2026/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eMicrosoft\u0026#8217;s 2026 Work Trend Index\u003c/a\u003e, drawn from 20,000 workers and trillions of Microsoft 365 productivity signals, identifies a small group of organizations the report calls “Frontier Firms.” They are human-led and agent-operated firms now pulling ahead of the competition. The most striking finding for any leader thinking about structure is that organizational factors, including culture, manager support and how talent is developed, account for more than twice the AI impact of individual capability and mindset combined. The conclusion is direct: The constraint on most enterprises today is not the people but rather the operating model around them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe atomic marketing organization is the marketing function\u0026#8217;s version of that operating model. It is the structure built to convert agentic capability into compounding value, by design rather than by accident.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat \u0026#8220;atomic\u0026#8221; actually means\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe unit of marketing work is changing in shape. Where it was once a \u003cem\u003erole\u003c/em\u003e surrounded by upstream and downstream handoffs, it is rapidly becoming an \u003cem\u003eatom\u003c/em\u003e. An atom is one whole role with full ownership of an outcome, supported by a team of agents that carry out the execution work that used to require a traditional team behind it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAtoms do not sit inside fixed departments. They cluster into hubs: small, composable groups that form around a clear outcome and dissolve again when priorities move on.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"image_caption_block","image":{"id":87716,"title":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03","filename":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","filesize":104676,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-atomic-marketing-organization/attachment/atomic-marketing-organization_diagram_updated_03/","alt":"","author":"16","description":"","caption":"","name":"atomic-marketing-organization_diagram_updated_03","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87598,"date":"2026-07-06 11:50:57","modified":"2026-07-06 11:50:57","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":550,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-300x115.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-768x293.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":244,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-1024x391.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":244,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":550,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":550}},"caption":"Organizing atomic marketers into connected hubs","imageAlignment":"center"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eMost organizations piloting this model converge on a small set of named hubs.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"padding: 10px 0;\"\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCMO hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThis hub sets strategic direction, adds nuances to priorities, and then cascades these to other hubs. This is a continuous rather than a one off or intermittent action.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe CMO Hub has a downstream responsibility to other hubs (brand, outcome, frontier etc.), but it also has a peer-level responsibility to the organization’s other functions and capabilities.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBrand \u0026amp; Creative hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe purpose of this hub is to protect the outward-facing brand identity. It is responsible for setting guidelines on how to do this, how to create and generate content, how to express this identity, and how to train other hubs to use it (e.g., in approved brand assets). It also produces unprompted, unconventional ideas that fuel the organization.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOutcome hubs\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThis hub is typically organized around acquisition and retention, owning growth from end to end and carrying full authority over budget, experiments and performance.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFrontier hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe frontier hub exists to keep evolving how marketing is done as the technology underneath it continues to move.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eEach atom is a person carrying judgement, supported by an orchestrator agent responsible for the orchestration of the marketers\u0026#8217; responsibility and workflow. The execution lies with the marketers, their colleagues, and other agents. The hubs are designed to breathe, expanding and contracting around the priorities of the business rather than around legacy reporting lines.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eMarketers become Outcome Leaders\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eInside an atomic organization, the job of the marketer changes shape with the structure. The role is no longer defined by what the marketer produces. It is defined by the outcome the marketer owns. Outcome Leaders set the growth hypothesis, steer the agentic workforce toward the priorities they have chosen and intervene at the points where human judgement matters most. The craft has not disappeared; it has moved further up the workflow, into ideas, decisions and the design of the work itself. As a result, the marketer’s responsibility is no longer just a piece of the workflow; it has become intertwined end-to-end with it (from ideas, decisions, and design to judging, steering, and adapting), leading to an outcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Four characteristics that define the marketer as an Outcome Leader","description":"","numberedSections":[{"title":"Own the outcome, end to end, from acquisition through retention","content":""},{"title":"Steer the workflow, taking responsibility for translating market signal into agent-led execution","content":""},{"title":"Evaluate performance against compute, treating the cost and quality of agentic work as a metric they actively manage","content":""},{"title":"Create the never-seen-before brand moments that no AI can originate on its own","content":"\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFour characteristics that define the marketer as an Outcome Leader. They own the outcome, end to end, from acquisition through retention. They steer the workflow, taking responsibility for translating market signal into agent-led execution. They evaluate performance against compute, treating the cost and quality of agentic work as a metric they actively manage. And they create the never-seen-before brand moments that no AI can originate on its own.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the role most marketers find genuinely energizing once they step into it. The work becomes less about production and more about authorship.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acfFcLayout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Six principles of the atomic model","description":"The atomic organization is best described as a set of design principles that shape the work, the roles and the structure together. Six of them define how the model behaves in practice.","numberedSections":[{"title":"Every role becomes whole ","content":"\u003cp\u003eMarketing roles are designed as indivisible units of value. One person, one outcome, with the relay race between specialists collapsed into a single point of ownership.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Decision authority is visibly embedded ","content":"\u003cp\u003eEvery decision in the agentic model has a human owner already named inside the role. Responsibility is traceable through ownership, not enforced through additional approval checkpoints.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"The organization becomes composable ","content":"\u003cp\u003eOutcome hubs form, dissolve and re-form as priorities shift. The execution layer carries data, brand rules and workflows across every initiative, so consistency is preserved as the structure flexes.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"The model is in constant evolution ","content":"\u003cp\u003eNew capability arrives faster than any reorganization cycle can keep up with. Workflow designers become a core role, applying AI thoughtfully into the day-to-day work of marketers as the technology continues to move.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Scaling stops being a resource constraint ","content":"\u003cp\u003eWith agents carrying execution, adding a market or doubling output is no longer a headcount decision. More energy can be directed through the system to lift volume without lifting the budget line in proportion.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Human capacity becomes premium ","content":"\u003cp\u003eHuman time is no longer absorbed by the operation of the system. It is reserved for moments of authentic creativity and high-judgement decision making. Premium, protected, deliberate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThree of these principles, taken together, change how a CMO has to think about growth: scaling, decision authority and human capacity. Scaling becomes a question of system capacity rather than a question of hiring, because the execution layer absorbs the volume. For the organizations doing this seriously, that layer is an AI-native marketing system, and frog has a solution to that need. Decision authority becomes visible again, because each atom has a clearly named human at the center of it. And human capacity, released from production cycles, becomes the premium resource it was always intended to be —an input to protect rather than a cost to optimize first.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acfFcLayout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"The model is designed to the company that adopts it. It is always in motion, because the priorities of the business are. \"","author":"Steve Hewett, Global Leader, Customer Data \u0026 Technology, frog"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eWhat it costs to get there\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNo marketing organization redraws itself over a weekend. The atomic model is best understood as an evolution that runs parallel to the existing organization. Most adopters begin with a single outcome hub, which is set up next to the legacy structure, with a clear adoption target. When that hub meets its bar, a second one follows. The Brand \u0026amp; Creative and Frontier hubs come later, once there is enough running for them to plug into.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe harder work usually sits one level down from the structure itself. It is the redefinition of the role the structure forces upon the team. Outcome ownership replaces campaign management, full-stack craft replaces channel specialization and workflow design replaces process management. In most cases the people moving into the new shapes are the same people who were already in the function. The transformation work happens inside individual careers, and the org chart is the visible trace of it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere is also a governance question to answer before the model can scale safely. When agents carry execution, someone still has to carry the judgement around brand, claims and risk. The atomic model only works if every atom has a clearly defined human, ownership, autonomy, role, and judgement at its center. Without that, the organization has built a faster way to ship work it cannot defend.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhy the model works, and where to start\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe atomic organization is designed to fit the company that adopts it. The workflows and the team configuration are set against whatever the CMO has named as priority for the period. As those priorities shift, so does the model. It is built to be in evolution, not to be deployed once and set in stone.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt holds up across very different organizational shapes. It works inside a 30-person marketing function and inside a 300-person one. It works inside a Fortune 500 and inside a challenger brand. The structure flexes with the priorities of the business. The unit of work, the atom, stays the same.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGovernance and decision authority are implied in the roles and enabled through the execution layer. frog’s AI-native marketing solution unifies data, brand rules, and workflow guardrails across hubs, ensuring CMOs retain control as agentic capabilities scale. Human and AI accountability stays clear at every level, because the human owner of each judgement call is named inside the role rather than added on top through extra process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor CMOs and marketing leaders sitting with all of this, the place to start is not the org chart. It is a single outcome the function is going to own end to end in the next quarter, and the small group of people, with the right agentic support around them, who will own it together. One hub. One clear outcome. A defined adoption target that decides whether the function commits to a second hub after it. That is the lightest credible entry into the model, and the one that does the most to demonstrate what the rest of the organization could become.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe remainder of the journey is one of authorship. The new structure can be drawn deliberately, by the function itself, on its own terms and with the people already in it. Or it can be drawn later, by someone outside the function, on conditions the function will have to accept. Frontier Firms, in the Microsoft sense, are the ones already doing the first version of that work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eNext in this series\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRight now, it is vital that marketers reduce as much complexity as possible to facilitate the transition into an atomic marketing organization. The atomic model enables workflows and team structures to evolve alongside shifting priorities. But this is just the first step forward. Next, organizations will bridge data, workflows, content, analytics, and AI tools to create a single source of truth. We’ll get into the multivalent benefits of this in the next article in this \u003cstrong\u003eAI-Native Marketing\u003c/strong\u003e series.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStay tuned for a focus on the return of the single marketer workflow to learn how the marketing stack is collapsing into a single working environment.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"tim-van-der-galien","authorName":"Tim van der Galiën","bio":"\u003cp\u003eTim works with Marketing \u0026#038; Digital leaders to uncover growth opportunities and deliver exceptional innovations and experiences. He specializes in the marketing domain and can connect strategy to data, technology and AI—and does this by fusing art and science together. 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