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type="application/json">{"props":{"pageProps":{"httpStatus":200,"posts":[{"id":87867,"slug":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury","date":"2026-07-16T18:47:51","acf":{"designmind_building_blocks":[{"acf_fc_layout":"designmind_header_block","designmind_header":{"image":{"ID":87912,"id":87912,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img.png","filesize":675171,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img/","alt":"","author":"28","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87867,"date":"2026-07-23 12:24:07","modified":"2026-07-23 12:24:07","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":2880,"height":1104,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-300x115.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-768x294.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-1024x393.png","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-1536x589.png","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":589,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-2048x785.png","2048x2048-width":2048,"2048x2048-height":785}},"video_file":false,"title":"Design Mind frogcast Ep.61 – The New Lines of Luxury","description":"Our Guests: Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026 Lifestyle, Accor; Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director, frog; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury, frog; Caroline Le Bars, Vice President, frog","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eWhat does \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury\"\u003eluxury\u003c/a\u003e really mean in a world that\u0026#8217;s constantly redefining itself? In this episode, frog Managing Director Gagandeep Gadri sits down with Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog, to unpack the findings from frog\u0026#8217;s latest research: a deep dive into the minds of more than 5,000 high-net-worth and ultra-high-net-worth individuals worldwide. \u003cspan data-teams=\"true\"\u003eThen, frog VP Caroline Le Bars sits down with Agnès Roquefort, Global Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor to explore what these trends mean for hospitality, from branded residences to the reimagined Orient Express. It\u0026#8217;s a rich look at where luxury is headed next.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode below. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://share.transistor.fm/e/13c16410\" width=\"100%\" height=\"180\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 61:\u003c/strong\u003e The New Lines of Luxury\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuests:\u003c/strong\u003e Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle, Accor; Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director, frog; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury, frog; Caroline Le Bars, Vice President, frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e[00:00:03] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/b\u003eWelcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we\u0026#8217;re exploring what luxury really means in a world that\u0026#8217;s constantly redefining it. You’re going to hear a conversation hosted by Gagandeep Gadri, the Managing Director of frog, with three guests: Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer for Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor, Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog and Caroline Le Bars, Vice President at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor our panelists, luxury today is less about status and more about substance; what feels considered, what feels rare and how brands build trust through experience rather than excess. Their new report, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e, unpacks these shifts across the sector, with a special focus on hospitality and what Agnès is seeing firsthand at Accor. You can find a link to the full report and more in our show notes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut first, let’s jump in.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:43] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWelcome everyone and thank you so much for joining. My name is Gagandeep Gadri. I am the Managing Director of frog, part of Capgemini Invent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt frog, we work with our clients to do two things:\u003cbr /\u003e\nOne is reinventing the future; how to unleash growth through new products, services and experiences.\u003cbr /\u003e\nSecond, how to deliver that growth by creating the best customer experience with real focus on the customer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd that\u0026#8217;s what we did last year. Last year we really went deep into the luxury customer, where we spoke to thousands of high-net-worth individuals to understand what they buy, why and what they\u0026#8217;re looking for. With the world changing so quickly, technology — Agentic AI — is just making so many changes. We decided to go back to that research and talk to those consumers again, finding out what they are looking for, not only in what they buy, but also what they expect in 2030.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd so, today, we\u0026#8217;re going to be sharing with you the latest findings from that research. The key thing that came out was very much around: it\u0026#8217;s not about technology and emotion, but how do we deliver even more immersive, better experiences that showcase the emotion, leveraging technology.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI\u0026#8217;m super pleased to have Anne-Laure join me today. She heads the luxury platform at frog. Anne-Laure, tell us a little bit more about the research we did and what everyone can look forward to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:41] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eGood afternoon and thank you for joining. I will begin with the incredible size of our panel this year. We have been able to be in interaction with more than 5000 individuals — from high-net-worth to ultra-high-net-worth individuals.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe New Lines of Luxury is the brand of our report, but this year we have spotted five new lines. The first one is called The Revenge of Retail and we will dive deep in one minute on it. The second one, The Elevation of Luxury. Then a very specific one, a bit fun, because this is a comeback to the original promise of luxury, we call this trend Enduring Value, not the lasting value of luxury products or experiences. Beauty shifts — beauty changes so quickly. And finally, going a bit deeper into 2030 and beyond, a more prospective trend around Lifespan, Robotics and New Frontiers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGagandeep, can you tell us a few words about the Revenge of Retail?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:34] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, let\u0026#8217;s dive straight into here. So, the Revenge of Retail, you know, the last 20 years or so, there\u0026#8217;s been a huge amount of spending in digital apps, websites, digital commerce; the store and the physical space have been a little bit forgotten about. But now, we want to return to that. That\u0026#8217;s what this is about. It\u0026#8217;s the Revenge of Retail, returning to the physical space but not just as it was before. It\u0026#8217;s got to be in the new way, as an innovation lab, as something where the real feeling of the brand, the essence of the brand, can be seen. When we look at these boutiques or these physical spaces, it\u0026#8217;s all physical touchpoints, so it could be full boutique, it could be the dealership, could be the lobby of a hotel, could be where a private wealth banking meeting happens. These are all areas that are out there to get this new physical experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut what consumers want is when they go to these places, they want to have a different experience, because what they can do through digital and their apps, they don\u0026#8217;t want to be able to do when they get into the physical space. They want something different. They want you to stimulate them. They want to have an experience. They want to get closer to the brand. But really importantly, they don\u0026#8217;t want the same experience from every touchpoint that they go to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor example, in a five-star hotel in Paris and then one in London, they expect some similarity, but what they\u0026#8217;re also looking for is the differences — the local nuances to come into that space as well because why else would they want to keep on going to these spaces if they don\u0026#8217;t get that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen we talk about innovation and technology, it\u0026#8217;s not about having more screens and more digital stuff. It\u0026#8217;s about really using it to help bring the emotion across in a seamless way, make the experience better, more interesting for the consumers as well. So, how do we leverage physical AI, but in a really seamless way to help the consumer and to help the people working in those boutiques do their job better?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, as a brand, how do you activate this and I think there are three things that we look at:\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe first one is reimagining the beauty boutique as a stage. This is really important. It\u0026#8217;s about a performance; it\u0026#8217;s about a moment to Make Your Mark. How do you do that? How do you get the core of the brand to resonate in this physical space and create a really really exciting moment?\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe second is yes, embed AI, but as a seamless, effortless part of the overall journey and experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe final part here is, how can we use it as a hub, bringing people together, not just at the start of a transaction, not at the end of a transaction, maybe when something goes wrong, but ongoing to really create a community and really build loyalty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, I think these are three things that will help those maisons really reconnect into a physical space. Anne-Laure, tell us about the next thing we found out.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:10:36] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, we\u0026#8217;ll talk about now the Elevation of Luxury and you just mentioned Gagandeep, the fact that someone you know traveling from the UK to France, for example, can stay in the same hotel in terms of brand, not the same place and want the same standard, the expectation of experiences, but not exactly the same experience to be sure that it feels something different, emotionally speaking, in London and in Paris, for example, this is where the elevation of luxury happened, because this is deeply rooted to emotion, expectation of self-enhancement and development and this trend explained that from only, you know , a transactional relationship between brands and customer, we have now to develop what we call the transformative luxury. Luxury becomes a vehicle for who people aspire to become. Tell me what you spend and I will tell you who you are, it\u0026#8217;s really close to the identity of people. For example, 36% of our panel want a real cultural or spiritual dimension in their luxury consumption and 81% — this is a huge number — are seeking freedom in their luxury consumption. You know, a few years ago, talking with metaphysical words about luxury, we earned a lot. Luxury is time, ultimate luxury is space, it\u0026#8217;s love. Now it\u0026#8217;s really freedom, self-development. So, there is really a huge trend within this elevation of luxury.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf we go further, elevated luxury also means that as a customer you want to have the opportunity to be in relation with luxury anytime, anywhere and any way. For example, 79% of our panel is asking for on-demand luxury that it can access anywhere and everywhere. This is quite new. Remember, a lot of maisons made some kind of pushback about having a 24/7 expectation in relation with their client. But the clients are asking for it, not in replacement to their personal advisor but in addition to them. Another key figure is that 55% of the panel is expecting for hyper personalized conciergerie and not only in hospitality. Really, for every brand, for a wealth management company to an automotive retailer, they want to have this opportunity to engage conversation really on demand with extra and personalized services.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHow to activate it? We have to move from transaction to transformation and understand what does it mean in terms of customer journey. Secondly, deliver on-demand experiences. This is not only words, it means that for sure you have to prepare really consistent technological assets and background to be sure that you can operate it properly and finally you have to open up to sales development spaces, new frontier and real business development to offer new possibility to your clients. We\u0026#8217;ll talk now about the Enduring Value and come back to the original premise of luxury.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:28] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, this one is really important. How do you connect back to the heritage of the brand, right? The real craft, the trust, the timelessness of that brand you have. You know, some clients have been questioning prices have been going up for luxury brands and the real answer here is for brands to connect back to the real purpose, that real heritage of the brand. The first thing that we really see here is that, you know it\u0026#8217;s an investment. 77% of our consumers we spoke to said luxury is an investment and that\u0026#8217;s a really big number and they have a massive expectation that it\u0026#8217;s actually going to retain or grow in value. That\u0026#8217;s their perception of what they think they\u0026#8217;re getting into. It\u0026#8217;s not a niche collector mindset, you can see it\u0026#8217;s across all geographies. India and Japan had the highest expectation, while China had the lowest one in this area.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe wealthier the respondent, the higher the expectation they had. So, this is really important about the ongoing value of that product. Now, we see a massive opportunity actually. This opportunity is in the ongoing relationship you can have — the ongoing sales care, the ongoing connection you can make with the brand. So, how can you extend the life of the product? Maybe there\u0026#8217;s some more aftercare services, there\u0026#8217;s more some add-on products, there\u0026#8217;s about the digital traceability of it, get more information, a digital footprint of the product. This is super important and valuable when you\u0026#8217;re going to hand the product over as well. And the product continues its life that you\u0026#8217;ve got this traceability, you\u0026#8217;ve got access to all of this other information.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, how do you activate this enduring value? Take care at the core of the of the product strategy. I think this is super important. Not just the product itself, but the extra things around it that we can put to give that consumer a longer, better experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second bit is really building that trust through transparency. So, how through maybe a digital footprint, more digital information, digital asset, you can give more information, traceability around the project. When sustainability is a growing topic, you know, that\u0026#8217;s going to become more and more important for clients to see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut the final one is really key here. It\u0026#8217;s to embrace circularity. What we\u0026#8217;re seeing is so many different marketplaces coming up where people are reselling their luxury product. But if in that second purchase and the third purchase it\u0026#8217;s the enduring value that is really important. As a brand, you need to own that, you should own and embrace circularity, so that when these products get resold, the value of those products, the story of that product, that belongs to you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI was actually recently in Italy, in Bologna and I went to the Pagani garage and there, when you buy a car, they can\u0026#8217;t resell it. You have to resell it back to Pagani so they can own that story, own the value of the product. And I think that is super important for them in the value of their brand in order to go forward and maybe something to learn on. Anne-Laure, why don\u0026#8217;t you tell us about the fourth line.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:41] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eThe fourth line is the Beauty Shift and it makes me feel listening to you that now the luxury consumer is really mature, you know, worldwide. New expectations are also driven by the fact that this is not a new kind of consumption, especially for the high-net-worths and the ultra-high-net-worths. And it\u0026#8217;s true also, regarding beauty, that is probably the segment that is still growing but shifting the most. The fun fact, before deep diving into this beauty shift, is that we had a lot of quotes, a lot of verbatim from the individuals in our panel and regarding beauty, we obtain a lot of quotes from men.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, first of all, beauty is not a woman topic, not at all.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSecondly, the shift, if I have to summarize it, is we came from a world of eternal youth as the ultimate beauty to timeless wellness, lasting vitality and this is the new beauty from Gen Z to boomers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf we go further, we ask a simple question, what\u0026#8217;s your definition of beauty? Just score it, you know and we have seen that this is really an holistic vision of beauty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first definition for our panel is body-mind alignment. Then there is longevity, then self-expression, even before aesthetic standards. The eternal youth, you know, produce aspect. Then else, else is part of beauty, natural authenticity and finally performance and optimization and we will come back on this one. It could seem a little bit low, but it means a lot in terms of signals. So, once again, a holistic vision of beauty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThen, if we deep dive a little bit, we\u0026#8217;ll see that innovation, science-led, you know, scientific proof is now a key point in beauty. For sure, sustainability is absolutely key and it\u0026#8217;s something that customers are still waiting for when they buy luxury products or experiences for beauty. But it\u0026#8217;s something that is now for sure secure in their mind. They want something new, they want a science-led innovation proof, because beauty now is almost, you know, in competition with medical treatment or other option that could really improve your physical appearance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e59% of our panel is asking for this bio-optimization and proof of performance. So, it is a strong signal. If we go further, how can the maison craft the future within this new era with this new beauty shift? First of all, as I said, we have to redefine beauty as a holistic essence, not focus anymore on anti-aging, you know, a thing like that, but to really speak to your client, to your customer, about what is beauty for them. Then make beauty science-led. In your storytelling, you have to explain what you do and how your experiences, services, or products are making some effects or benefits on your customer. And finally, honour, authenticity, identity, self-development, if we come back on the elevation of luxury over enhancement. For our last part, I think that we will travel in the future.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:35] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, remember, I said at the beginning we were going to have a look at what does 2030 look like. And for this one, what we\u0026#8217;re going to do is actually try and expand our minds, think of it in a different way, explore what the future could be for your brand or for your product. And there are three different ways we\u0026#8217;re going to look at this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first one is exploring new territories, so with this one, I\u0026#8217;m going to give an example of hospitality and travel, okay? People are looking for more extreme things to do — maybe it\u0026#8217;s deep sea travel or going to polar expeditions, climbing the Himalayas, but actually very soon it\u0026#8217;s going to be space tourism as well. Now, what is super interesting is it\u0026#8217;s not just about that experience, but building on what you just spoke about, Anne-Laure, how does that experience make me a better person? How does it improve my health? Maybe it improves my feelings about myself, the way I\u0026#8217;m thinking. It\u0026#8217;s got to be connected to improving yourself as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second area is again building on the trend that you spoke about, how can you connect your brand or your product to a better life? Better life for me and whatever that means, if it\u0026#8217;s more physical resilience, more personalized wellness plans, in what I\u0026#8217;m, what I\u0026#8217;m being able to do, really connecting it to that beauty shift to extend, connect the product to a better person and a better life that I can have.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd the third area is much more around connecting it to robotics and what we\u0026#8217;re seeing is affluent clients are really warming to robotics, but it\u0026#8217;s really about how humans and robots work better together. We\u0026#8217;re seeing in some geographies, like Japan and China, there\u0026#8217;s a stronger confidence to be able to do that, rather than in Western markets, but the real key here is these new frontiers or new uses feel really human, feel really personal, feel very close to the brand and not something futuristic. I think this is really really important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, how do you activate this into into the world? The first is really to think about how you can extend those territories of your brand. What does that mean logical for you? How do you explore it? Maybe some partnerships with some frontier tech organizations. Immersive storytelling could be something else you look at. How do you invest in extending the lifespan of your product and in a real way to personal well-being as well, really connecting the fourth and this topic together, I think, is super important. And finally, approach robotics carefully, but with cultural reference as well. Different geographies will appeal it in different ways, but how do you make it something seamless and something very human as well?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNow, when I look across all of these five trends that we\u0026#8217;ve spoken about, there\u0026#8217;s something that\u0026#8217;s really interesting that\u0026#8217;s connecting all of these together. And it\u0026#8217;s the way the consumer is being very fluid, you know, a different, the same consumer in a different moment, a different context, for a different brand can have a different feeling, a different expectation of what they want and we call this Liquid Consumerism. And in order for brands to be able to respond to that, brands need to be agile, you need to be able to adapt to them, need to be really able to see them, who they are. So, me as a professional person, me as a husband, me as a father, in this, how do you communicate and how do you operate with this? I think this is a really key trend across all of these, not to forget that focus on the consumer.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"ID":87898,"id":87898,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","filesize":306311,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87867,"date":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","modified":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-300x287.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":287,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-768x735.png","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-1024x980.png","large-width":640,"large-height":613,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","1536x1536-width":1268,"1536x1536-height":1214,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","2048x2048-width":1268,"2048x2048-height":1214}},"description":"Unveiling the expectations from the (Ultra) High-Net-Worth Individuals","report_link":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury","type":"internal"}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:08] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWhat we\u0026#8217;re now going to do is have a look at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003ethe report\u003c/a\u003e. We\u0026#8217;ve given you the insights, but we\u0026#8217;re now going to look at it from a different perspective. We\u0026#8217;re going to have a reality check, we\u0026#8217;re going to look and speak to some of our clients and see what they think about this report. I\u0026#8217;m really pleased now to be joined by one of my dear colleagues and friends, a real leader when it comes to frog around luxury and the work we do with our clients to really delve into this from an external perspective. Caroline, welcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:39] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eMerci beaucoup. Hello Gagandeep, I\u0026#8217;m very pleased to be with you today and I\u0026#8217;m very delighted to welcome Agnes Roquefort from Accor Group, who will bring her perspective on these luxury key trends we have shared with everyone and help us understand how Accor will play with these trends. So, Agnes, maybe my first question is, could you please, please briefly introduce your role and your position and your scope within Accor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:26:19] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eThanks Caroline, thanks Anne-Laure and Gagandeep for having me today to translate these new lines of luxury to the tourism and hospitality sector. Thanks very much. I\u0026#8217;m Agnes Roquefort, global chief development officer for the luxury and lifestyle brands of Accor and with my global team, really located across the globe, we are in charge of signing and opening one hotel per week for the luxury and lifestyle brands, namely Fermont, Sophie Tel, Raffles, Delano, Mama Shelter, all these brands with a big component on experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:02] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eGreat. Maybe to start with one of the trends we shared with Anne-Laure, the one that is called Elevation of Luxury. We see a strong shift from construction to self-development in luxury is the transformation visible in hospitality at Accor, or are you moving from offering a stay to enabling a transformative and meaningful experience to your guests?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:35] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eIt\u0026#8217;s a major trend for us and there\u0026#8217;s been a major trend, probably for 10 years now and indeed our guests are asking more than a sleep, more than a stay, more than a good bed, they want much more and this is what we call experiential hospitality or augmented hospitality, 360 hospitality and so what does that mean concretely? It means that beyond the bed, beyond the stay, we will introduce very strong experiences as regards food and beverage, restaurants; the guests are asking a lot in terms of experiences in restaurants with very, let\u0026#8217;s say, appealing concepts and very strong concept is not now extraordinary that we have hotels with a revenue that is going beyond 50% of the total revenue. So, it\u0026#8217;s becoming more restaurants with some beds, with some rooms.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWellbeing is a big component and we will come back on that, but it\u0026#8217;s really again part of, let\u0026#8217;s say, the experience and what we name experiential is hospitality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe have, as well, many other experiences, even events. So, we have in the all-inclusive world, which was not so glamorous so far, but now all-inclusive results are really luxurious, strongly on luxury, with a lot of experiences around entertainment events and we have, as well, superstar, really rock star, that are touring the hotel to really entertain the guests and propose again exclusive events directly in the hotel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I need to give you, let\u0026#8217;s say, some materialization of this major trend about elevation or luxury. One segment, which is absolutely booming for our luxury guest, is branded residence. Branded residence, what is that? American, Middle East, Asian, know pretty well, European a bit less. It\u0026#8217;s really your apartment, your villa with let\u0026#8217;s say homeowners that are buying not only an apartment and a villa and a home, but as well a brand able to deliver a great product, a great design and as well a fantastic hotel experience and it is what we call hotelization of the real estate. So, you really have your own home with your family, but as well with concierge, with valet parking, with the most fabulous gym really accessible from your home, with sometimes well-being directly, let\u0026#8217;s say, in the home and in the building of your apartment, with restaurants, with a fantastic pool, with really a true concierge laundry service that you could find in a hotel. Even to welcome your friends and family, some theatre, some cinema from a movie room with really vanguard technology. So, this is really a new iteration of the evolution of luxury with high-net-worth individuals, ultra-net-worth individuals, more and more buying this kind of villa and apartment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTo give you a hint about the trend, so far there are 700 branded residents across the globe. The pipeline for the next three years is 700 so in 20 years we built 700 branded residents and for the next three to five years there will be this add-on on the market with again, yeah, luxury guests that are looking for, let\u0026#8217;s say, mixing their daily lifestyle, their home with, let\u0026#8217;s say, really high level of service. Giving you as well some perspective about the brands in hospitality that are going to this elevation of luxury. It is hot news at Accor with the launch of Orient Express sailing yachts and Orient Express at Accor is defined more than a hotel brand, like a travel brand. And what do we mean by that is we have a few hotels in Rome, in Venice for the first one. We have some trains on the railway in Italy and as well we have a major sailing yacht that I just started in Cannes in the Mediterranean area, which is crazy in terms of space and luxury elevation and as well, Orient Express was recently in a museum in the Musée des Arts Décoratifs in Paris, with the exhibition around the Art décor. And why I\u0026#8217;m mentioning this brand it\u0026#8217;s a good illustration of what, let\u0026#8217;s say, elevation of luxury means and what the guests, the customers, are looking for in the museum, for example, they\u0026#8217;re looking for, let\u0026#8217;s say, nearly an emotional connection with the history of the brand, which is secular, born in 1883, so more than a century, they want to, let\u0026#8217;s say, understand the craftsmanship and indeed, how it was like 100 years ago. They want to be, of course, connected as well with the different experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I would say the third point that we can experience with the elevation of luxury that you, you\u0026#8217;ve mentioned, Gagandeep, is really with a transformative experience that is more and more incarnated with well-being and so again, taking the example of Orient Express, we will have a transatlantic way from Lisbon to Caribbeans of 14 days of wellbeing for the guests to reconnect with their body and with their mind. So, this is all of that and you know you can feel it very strongly focus on experience and it\u0026#8217;s resonating a lot with our trends related to beauty shift as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:34:48] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eThank you for sharing that. So maybe coming back to the next trends in namely, the one that you were mentioning, Gagandeep, related to enduring value. We know that luxury clients are increasingly focused on long-term value, durability, trust. How does this translate into hospitality? Do you see hospitality becoming an investment in lifestyle or well-being, rather than rather than just one-time experience we can offer in a hotel room, for instance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:35:30] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s a very good question, because when we\u0026#8217;re talking about enduring value, we associate that to an item and to luxury item, but it translates pretty well as well, to travel, to tourism. Because when you have this kind of very high-end luxury experiences, what the guests are looking for are, let\u0026#8217;s say, stories that they can tell to their loved ones when they\u0026#8217;re coming back home, but they want, as well, to create memories, long-lasting memories, that they will take with them for a long time, for their friends, for their family. So, this is where the enduring value is in this, let\u0026#8217;s say long-lasting memories, memories forever and how do you create that?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe good news is that to create these memorable moments, these memories forever are very much focused on the human touch. Clearly, AI technology will help us to automate the ordinary, but we will have to further humanize the extraordinary. And the good thing is that we create magic, we create these emotions, these experiences, thanks to our staff. In your report, as well, you mentioned, you know, the personalized customized concierge, etc., indeed, it\u0026#8217;s already very strong in our luxury and ultra luxury brands.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe have a butler at Raffles that is really aside the guests to create these exclusive events across the stay and to answer their needs that they didn\u0026#8217;t think they would have this need during their stay, but to create this magic and this strong relationship with the guest. And the fun fact I was sharing with you just before this report and this interview is that you know that I had the chance to stay in a strong well-being and eco-friendly brand Chablis, a Mexican brand with a fantastic hotel in Yucatán and they\u0026#8217;ve got a strong well-being component. But you know, I was not really aware of what was well-being at Chablis brand and the first part of the well-being experience starts with kind of an interview and one hour with a true shaman, una abuela, you know, and I was so impacted and moved with emotion and a bit transformed, I must say that I do not even remember the massage, after you know and it\u0026#8217;s really when we\u0026#8217;re talking about transformative experience, you know, memories that really last long, is typically this kind of experience where you have something that you could not imagine and that you\u0026#8217;re taking with you back home and continuing to, let\u0026#8217;s say, use every day in your life.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:38] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, maybe our last trend, it\u0026#8217;s about new frontiers, new territories of luxury and maybe we were wondering, looking ahead to maybe 2030 or maybe beyond, luxury clients are increasingly drawn to new frontier like extreme travels, new territories, even when we were mentioning in the report, space tourism and just wondering, what could be the next territories of luxury experience for a group like Accor?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:39:23] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eSo there are many, but I would like to share not something that will happen in 20 years, but probably in two or three years is around the space and around the new frontiers and so you will be happy to know, Caroline, that we\u0026#8217;re working on a very concrete project in Cape Canaveral with some people that would like to invest in the space, let\u0026#8217;s say training, so the idea of that is to have a hotel with a space training area that allows, of course, astronauts as well as high-net-worth individual to train and to be ready to go to the space, but as well amateurs as yourself and myself, maybe, that want to have, let\u0026#8217;s say, a bit of flavour of what would be, let\u0026#8217;s say, a training for an astronaut like Thomas Pesquet. So you know, experiencing the dream that you can already experience, for example, in the sports with the tennis academy, like Mouratoglou, but just imagine that for the space in Cape Canaveral, or other places, and it\u0026#8217;s not in 20 years, it\u0026#8217;s really coming, probably in three, five years maximum.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:40:38] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eI think you will have a lot of guests that would like to come, because we have already. So, thank you so much, Agnes, for your time and for sharing with us your valuable insight on these trends and happy to see what’s with the next, new territories you were mentioning, it will be more than happy for us to be part of the new experience and testers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:41:12] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWe’ll be on the waiting for these trips. What a fantastic way to hear those stories and what\u0026#8217;s happening. And yes, thank you so much for sharing that. There\u0026#8217;s so much that is exciting there and also a way to see the insights in the report come to life, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:08] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eSo, look, we\u0026#8217;ve had a fabulous time. I can\u0026#8217;t believe it\u0026#8217;s gone so quickly. Anne-Laure, can I just come to you for your final reflections?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:17] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eBut probably I just would like to say that there are many more in the report, for sure. We try to disclose it in a nutshell, as we say, but for sure, I hope that we will engage in conversations with our clients, prospects, friends as soon as possible and we are also able to customize the insight and the data for every maison and it will be a pleasure, for sure. Stay tuned.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:46] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eFantastic. I want to thank everyone, all of the speakers, for their great participation today. It\u0026#8217;s been really really great. And look, you know, I look at this and say, yes, there\u0026#8217;s a lot of change, but there\u0026#8217;s a lot of opportunity out there. Hopefully, today we\u0026#8217;ve excited you all about those possibilities and inspired you about what could be. You can access the full report on frog.co and like Anne-Laure said, please contact us if you want a deeper dive, go into more of the detail, and specifically what it could mean for you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download frog’s new report: \u0026#8216;\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e.\u0026#8217;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our panel – Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog; Caroline Le Bars, VP at frog; and Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFind a link to the \u003ca href=\"https://api.momindum.com/watch/uD3ia9PaDsrqbgrv0giXbw-jtXqaSKerKnk4Z9QLcxE.\"\u003efull webinar of this conversation\u003c/a\u003e, complete with even more insights from the report. Visit frog.co/contact to request report deep dives and a synthetic client demo from Anne-Laure and our \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury\"\u003efrog luxury team\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eand Spotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"ID":42755,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2022-03-28 15:20:00","post_date_gmt":"2022-03-28 15:20:00","post_content":"","post_title":"Gagandeep Gadri","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"gagandeep-gadri","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-02-03 22:14:08","post_modified_gmt":"2026-02-03 22:14:08","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=42755","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Gagandeep Gadri","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGagandeep is an Executive Vice President and is the Managing Director of frog globally and the Head of frog in the United Kingdom. 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12:24:07","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":2880,"height":1104,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-300x115.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-768x294.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-1024x393.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-1536x589.png","1536X1536Width":1536,"1536X1536Height":589,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-header-img-2048x785.png","2048X2048Width":2048,"2048X2048Height":785}},"videoFile":false,"title":"Design Mind frogcast Ep.61 – The New Lines of Luxury","description":"Our Guests: Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026 Lifestyle, Accor; Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director, frog; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury, frog; Caroline Le Bars, Vice President, frog","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eWhat does \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury\"\u003eluxury\u003c/a\u003e really mean in a world that\u0026#8217;s constantly redefining itself? In this episode, frog Managing Director Gagandeep Gadri sits down with Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog, to unpack the findings from frog\u0026#8217;s latest research: a deep dive into the minds of more than 5,000 high-net-worth and ultra-high-net-worth individuals worldwide. \u003cspan data-teams=\"true\"\u003eThen, frog VP Caroline Le Bars sits down with Agnès Roquefort, Global Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor to explore what these trends mean for hospitality, from branded residences to the reimagined Orient Express. It\u0026#8217;s a rich look at where luxury is headed next.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode below. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://share.transistor.fm/e/13c16410\" width=\"100%\" height=\"180\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 61:\u003c/strong\u003e The New Lines of Luxury\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuests:\u003c/strong\u003e Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle, Accor; Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director, frog; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury, frog; Caroline Le Bars, Vice President, frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e[00:00:03] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/b\u003eWelcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we\u0026#8217;re exploring what luxury really means in a world that\u0026#8217;s constantly redefining it. You’re going to hear a conversation hosted by Gagandeep Gadri, the Managing Director of frog, with three guests: Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer for Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor, Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog and Caroline Le Bars, Vice President at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor our panelists, luxury today is less about status and more about substance; what feels considered, what feels rare and how brands build trust through experience rather than excess. Their new report, \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e, unpacks these shifts across the sector, with a special focus on hospitality and what Agnès is seeing firsthand at Accor. You can find a link to the full report and more in our show notes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut first, let’s jump in.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:43] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWelcome everyone and thank you so much for joining. My name is Gagandeep Gadri. I am the Managing Director of frog, part of Capgemini Invent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt frog, we work with our clients to do two things:\u003cbr /\u003e\nOne is reinventing the future; how to unleash growth through new products, services and experiences.\u003cbr /\u003e\nSecond, how to deliver that growth by creating the best customer experience with real focus on the customer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd that\u0026#8217;s what we did last year. Last year we really went deep into the luxury customer, where we spoke to thousands of high-net-worth individuals to understand what they buy, why and what they\u0026#8217;re looking for. With the world changing so quickly, technology — Agentic AI — is just making so many changes. We decided to go back to that research and talk to those consumers again, finding out what they are looking for, not only in what they buy, but also what they expect in 2030.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd so, today, we\u0026#8217;re going to be sharing with you the latest findings from that research. The key thing that came out was very much around: it\u0026#8217;s not about technology and emotion, but how do we deliver even more immersive, better experiences that showcase the emotion, leveraging technology.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI\u0026#8217;m super pleased to have Anne-Laure join me today. She heads the luxury platform at frog. Anne-Laure, tell us a little bit more about the research we did and what everyone can look forward to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:41] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eGood afternoon and thank you for joining. I will begin with the incredible size of our panel this year. We have been able to be in interaction with more than 5000 individuals — from high-net-worth to ultra-high-net-worth individuals.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe New Lines of Luxury is the brand of our report, but this year we have spotted five new lines. The first one is called The Revenge of Retail and we will dive deep in one minute on it. The second one, The Elevation of Luxury. Then a very specific one, a bit fun, because this is a comeback to the original promise of luxury, we call this trend Enduring Value, not the lasting value of luxury products or experiences. Beauty shifts — beauty changes so quickly. And finally, going a bit deeper into 2030 and beyond, a more prospective trend around Lifespan, Robotics and New Frontiers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGagandeep, can you tell us a few words about the Revenge of Retail?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:34] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, let\u0026#8217;s dive straight into here. So, the Revenge of Retail, you know, the last 20 years or so, there\u0026#8217;s been a huge amount of spending in digital apps, websites, digital commerce; the store and the physical space have been a little bit forgotten about. But now, we want to return to that. That\u0026#8217;s what this is about. It\u0026#8217;s the Revenge of Retail, returning to the physical space but not just as it was before. It\u0026#8217;s got to be in the new way, as an innovation lab, as something where the real feeling of the brand, the essence of the brand, can be seen. When we look at these boutiques or these physical spaces, it\u0026#8217;s all physical touchpoints, so it could be full boutique, it could be the dealership, could be the lobby of a hotel, could be where a private wealth banking meeting happens. These are all areas that are out there to get this new physical experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut what consumers want is when they go to these places, they want to have a different experience, because what they can do through digital and their apps, they don\u0026#8217;t want to be able to do when they get into the physical space. They want something different. They want you to stimulate them. They want to have an experience. They want to get closer to the brand. But really importantly, they don\u0026#8217;t want the same experience from every touchpoint that they go to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor example, in a five-star hotel in Paris and then one in London, they expect some similarity, but what they\u0026#8217;re also looking for is the differences — the local nuances to come into that space as well because why else would they want to keep on going to these spaces if they don\u0026#8217;t get that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen we talk about innovation and technology, it\u0026#8217;s not about having more screens and more digital stuff. It\u0026#8217;s about really using it to help bring the emotion across in a seamless way, make the experience better, more interesting for the consumers as well. So, how do we leverage physical AI, but in a really seamless way to help the consumer and to help the people working in those boutiques do their job better?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, as a brand, how do you activate this and I think there are three things that we look at:\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe first one is reimagining the beauty boutique as a stage. This is really important. It\u0026#8217;s about a performance; it\u0026#8217;s about a moment to Make Your Mark. How do you do that? How do you get the core of the brand to resonate in this physical space and create a really really exciting moment?\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe second is yes, embed AI, but as a seamless, effortless part of the overall journey and experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe final part here is, how can we use it as a hub, bringing people together, not just at the start of a transaction, not at the end of a transaction, maybe when something goes wrong, but ongoing to really create a community and really build loyalty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, I think these are three things that will help those maisons really reconnect into a physical space. Anne-Laure, tell us about the next thing we found out.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:10:36] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, we\u0026#8217;ll talk about now the Elevation of Luxury and you just mentioned Gagandeep, the fact that someone you know traveling from the UK to France, for example, can stay in the same hotel in terms of brand, not the same place and want the same standard, the expectation of experiences, but not exactly the same experience to be sure that it feels something different, emotionally speaking, in London and in Paris, for example, this is where the elevation of luxury happened, because this is deeply rooted to emotion, expectation of self-enhancement and development and this trend explained that from only, you know , a transactional relationship between brands and customer, we have now to develop what we call the transformative luxury. Luxury becomes a vehicle for who people aspire to become. Tell me what you spend and I will tell you who you are, it\u0026#8217;s really close to the identity of people. For example, 36% of our panel want a real cultural or spiritual dimension in their luxury consumption and 81% — this is a huge number — are seeking freedom in their luxury consumption. You know, a few years ago, talking with metaphysical words about luxury, we earned a lot. Luxury is time, ultimate luxury is space, it\u0026#8217;s love. Now it\u0026#8217;s really freedom, self-development. So, there is really a huge trend within this elevation of luxury.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf we go further, elevated luxury also means that as a customer you want to have the opportunity to be in relation with luxury anytime, anywhere and any way. For example, 79% of our panel is asking for on-demand luxury that it can access anywhere and everywhere. This is quite new. Remember, a lot of maisons made some kind of pushback about having a 24/7 expectation in relation with their client. But the clients are asking for it, not in replacement to their personal advisor but in addition to them. Another key figure is that 55% of the panel is expecting for hyper personalized conciergerie and not only in hospitality. Really, for every brand, for a wealth management company to an automotive retailer, they want to have this opportunity to engage conversation really on demand with extra and personalized services.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHow to activate it? We have to move from transaction to transformation and understand what does it mean in terms of customer journey. Secondly, deliver on-demand experiences. This is not only words, it means that for sure you have to prepare really consistent technological assets and background to be sure that you can operate it properly and finally you have to open up to sales development spaces, new frontier and real business development to offer new possibility to your clients. We\u0026#8217;ll talk now about the Enduring Value and come back to the original premise of luxury.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:28] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, this one is really important. How do you connect back to the heritage of the brand, right? The real craft, the trust, the timelessness of that brand you have. You know, some clients have been questioning prices have been going up for luxury brands and the real answer here is for brands to connect back to the real purpose, that real heritage of the brand. The first thing that we really see here is that, you know it\u0026#8217;s an investment. 77% of our consumers we spoke to said luxury is an investment and that\u0026#8217;s a really big number and they have a massive expectation that it\u0026#8217;s actually going to retain or grow in value. That\u0026#8217;s their perception of what they think they\u0026#8217;re getting into. It\u0026#8217;s not a niche collector mindset, you can see it\u0026#8217;s across all geographies. India and Japan had the highest expectation, while China had the lowest one in this area.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe wealthier the respondent, the higher the expectation they had. So, this is really important about the ongoing value of that product. Now, we see a massive opportunity actually. This opportunity is in the ongoing relationship you can have — the ongoing sales care, the ongoing connection you can make with the brand. So, how can you extend the life of the product? Maybe there\u0026#8217;s some more aftercare services, there\u0026#8217;s more some add-on products, there\u0026#8217;s about the digital traceability of it, get more information, a digital footprint of the product. This is super important and valuable when you\u0026#8217;re going to hand the product over as well. And the product continues its life that you\u0026#8217;ve got this traceability, you\u0026#8217;ve got access to all of this other information.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, how do you activate this enduring value? Take care at the core of the of the product strategy. I think this is super important. Not just the product itself, but the extra things around it that we can put to give that consumer a longer, better experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second bit is really building that trust through transparency. So, how through maybe a digital footprint, more digital information, digital asset, you can give more information, traceability around the project. When sustainability is a growing topic, you know, that\u0026#8217;s going to become more and more important for clients to see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut the final one is really key here. It\u0026#8217;s to embrace circularity. What we\u0026#8217;re seeing is so many different marketplaces coming up where people are reselling their luxury product. But if in that second purchase and the third purchase it\u0026#8217;s the enduring value that is really important. As a brand, you need to own that, you should own and embrace circularity, so that when these products get resold, the value of those products, the story of that product, that belongs to you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI was actually recently in Italy, in Bologna and I went to the Pagani garage and there, when you buy a car, they can\u0026#8217;t resell it. You have to resell it back to Pagani so they can own that story, own the value of the product. And I think that is super important for them in the value of their brand in order to go forward and maybe something to learn on. Anne-Laure, why don\u0026#8217;t you tell us about the fourth line.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:41] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eThe fourth line is the Beauty Shift and it makes me feel listening to you that now the luxury consumer is really mature, you know, worldwide. New expectations are also driven by the fact that this is not a new kind of consumption, especially for the high-net-worths and the ultra-high-net-worths. And it\u0026#8217;s true also, regarding beauty, that is probably the segment that is still growing but shifting the most. The fun fact, before deep diving into this beauty shift, is that we had a lot of quotes, a lot of verbatim from the individuals in our panel and regarding beauty, we obtain a lot of quotes from men.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, first of all, beauty is not a woman topic, not at all.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSecondly, the shift, if I have to summarize it, is we came from a world of eternal youth as the ultimate beauty to timeless wellness, lasting vitality and this is the new beauty from Gen Z to boomers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIf we go further, we ask a simple question, what\u0026#8217;s your definition of beauty? Just score it, you know and we have seen that this is really an holistic vision of beauty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first definition for our panel is body-mind alignment. Then there is longevity, then self-expression, even before aesthetic standards. The eternal youth, you know, produce aspect. Then else, else is part of beauty, natural authenticity and finally performance and optimization and we will come back on this one. It could seem a little bit low, but it means a lot in terms of signals. So, once again, a holistic vision of beauty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThen, if we deep dive a little bit, we\u0026#8217;ll see that innovation, science-led, you know, scientific proof is now a key point in beauty. For sure, sustainability is absolutely key and it\u0026#8217;s something that customers are still waiting for when they buy luxury products or experiences for beauty. But it\u0026#8217;s something that is now for sure secure in their mind. They want something new, they want a science-led innovation proof, because beauty now is almost, you know, in competition with medical treatment or other option that could really improve your physical appearance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e59% of our panel is asking for this bio-optimization and proof of performance. So, it is a strong signal. If we go further, how can the maison craft the future within this new era with this new beauty shift? First of all, as I said, we have to redefine beauty as a holistic essence, not focus anymore on anti-aging, you know, a thing like that, but to really speak to your client, to your customer, about what is beauty for them. Then make beauty science-led. In your storytelling, you have to explain what you do and how your experiences, services, or products are making some effects or benefits on your customer. And finally, honour, authenticity, identity, self-development, if we come back on the elevation of luxury over enhancement. For our last part, I think that we will travel in the future.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:35] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, remember, I said at the beginning we were going to have a look at what does 2030 look like. And for this one, what we\u0026#8217;re going to do is actually try and expand our minds, think of it in a different way, explore what the future could be for your brand or for your product. And there are three different ways we\u0026#8217;re going to look at this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first one is exploring new territories, so with this one, I\u0026#8217;m going to give an example of hospitality and travel, okay? People are looking for more extreme things to do — maybe it\u0026#8217;s deep sea travel or going to polar expeditions, climbing the Himalayas, but actually very soon it\u0026#8217;s going to be space tourism as well. Now, what is super interesting is it\u0026#8217;s not just about that experience, but building on what you just spoke about, Anne-Laure, how does that experience make me a better person? How does it improve my health? Maybe it improves my feelings about myself, the way I\u0026#8217;m thinking. It\u0026#8217;s got to be connected to improving yourself as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second area is again building on the trend that you spoke about, how can you connect your brand or your product to a better life? Better life for me and whatever that means, if it\u0026#8217;s more physical resilience, more personalized wellness plans, in what I\u0026#8217;m, what I\u0026#8217;m being able to do, really connecting it to that beauty shift to extend, connect the product to a better person and a better life that I can have.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd the third area is much more around connecting it to robotics and what we\u0026#8217;re seeing is affluent clients are really warming to robotics, but it\u0026#8217;s really about how humans and robots work better together. We\u0026#8217;re seeing in some geographies, like Japan and China, there\u0026#8217;s a stronger confidence to be able to do that, rather than in Western markets, but the real key here is these new frontiers or new uses feel really human, feel really personal, feel very close to the brand and not something futuristic. I think this is really really important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, how do you activate this into into the world? The first is really to think about how you can extend those territories of your brand. What does that mean logical for you? How do you explore it? Maybe some partnerships with some frontier tech organizations. Immersive storytelling could be something else you look at. How do you invest in extending the lifespan of your product and in a real way to personal well-being as well, really connecting the fourth and this topic together, I think, is super important. And finally, approach robotics carefully, but with cultural reference as well. Different geographies will appeal it in different ways, but how do you make it something seamless and something very human as well?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNow, when I look across all of these five trends that we\u0026#8217;ve spoken about, there\u0026#8217;s something that\u0026#8217;s really interesting that\u0026#8217;s connecting all of these together. And it\u0026#8217;s the way the consumer is being very fluid, you know, a different, the same consumer in a different moment, a different context, for a different brand can have a different feeling, a different expectation of what they want and we call this Liquid Consumerism. And in order for brands to be able to respond to that, brands need to be agile, you need to be able to adapt to them, need to be really able to see them, who they are. So, me as a professional person, me as a husband, me as a father, in this, how do you communicate and how do you operate with this? I think this is a really key trend across all of these, not to forget that focus on the consumer.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"id":87898,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","filesize":306311,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87867,"date":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","modified":"2026-07-21 17:35:05","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-300x287.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":287,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-768x735.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable-1024x980.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":613,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","1536X1536Width":1268,"1536X1536Height":1214,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/design-mind-frogcast-ep-61-the-new-lines-of-luxury-downloadable.png","2048X2048Width":1268,"2048X2048Height":1214}},"description":"Unveiling the expectations from the (Ultra) High-Net-Worth Individuals","reportLink":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury","type":"internal"}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:08] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWhat we\u0026#8217;re now going to do is have a look at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003ethe report\u003c/a\u003e. We\u0026#8217;ve given you the insights, but we\u0026#8217;re now going to look at it from a different perspective. We\u0026#8217;re going to have a reality check, we\u0026#8217;re going to look and speak to some of our clients and see what they think about this report. I\u0026#8217;m really pleased now to be joined by one of my dear colleagues and friends, a real leader when it comes to frog around luxury and the work we do with our clients to really delve into this from an external perspective. Caroline, welcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:39] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eMerci beaucoup. Hello Gagandeep, I\u0026#8217;m very pleased to be with you today and I\u0026#8217;m very delighted to welcome Agnes Roquefort from Accor Group, who will bring her perspective on these luxury key trends we have shared with everyone and help us understand how Accor will play with these trends. So, Agnes, maybe my first question is, could you please, please briefly introduce your role and your position and your scope within Accor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:26:19] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eThanks Caroline, thanks Anne-Laure and Gagandeep for having me today to translate these new lines of luxury to the tourism and hospitality sector. Thanks very much. I\u0026#8217;m Agnes Roquefort, global chief development officer for the luxury and lifestyle brands of Accor and with my global team, really located across the globe, we are in charge of signing and opening one hotel per week for the luxury and lifestyle brands, namely Fermont, Sophie Tel, Raffles, Delano, Mama Shelter, all these brands with a big component on experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:02] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eGreat. Maybe to start with one of the trends we shared with Anne-Laure, the one that is called Elevation of Luxury. We see a strong shift from construction to self-development in luxury is the transformation visible in hospitality at Accor, or are you moving from offering a stay to enabling a transformative and meaningful experience to your guests?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:27:35] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eIt\u0026#8217;s a major trend for us and there\u0026#8217;s been a major trend, probably for 10 years now and indeed our guests are asking more than a sleep, more than a stay, more than a good bed, they want much more and this is what we call experiential hospitality or augmented hospitality, 360 hospitality and so what does that mean concretely? It means that beyond the bed, beyond the stay, we will introduce very strong experiences as regards food and beverage, restaurants; the guests are asking a lot in terms of experiences in restaurants with very, let\u0026#8217;s say, appealing concepts and very strong concept is not now extraordinary that we have hotels with a revenue that is going beyond 50% of the total revenue. So, it\u0026#8217;s becoming more restaurants with some beds, with some rooms.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWellbeing is a big component and we will come back on that, but it\u0026#8217;s really again part of, let\u0026#8217;s say, the experience and what we name experiential is hospitality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe have, as well, many other experiences, even events. So, we have in the all-inclusive world, which was not so glamorous so far, but now all-inclusive results are really luxurious, strongly on luxury, with a lot of experiences around entertainment events and we have, as well, superstar, really rock star, that are touring the hotel to really entertain the guests and propose again exclusive events directly in the hotel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I need to give you, let\u0026#8217;s say, some materialization of this major trend about elevation or luxury. One segment, which is absolutely booming for our luxury guest, is branded residence. Branded residence, what is that? American, Middle East, Asian, know pretty well, European a bit less. It\u0026#8217;s really your apartment, your villa with let\u0026#8217;s say homeowners that are buying not only an apartment and a villa and a home, but as well a brand able to deliver a great product, a great design and as well a fantastic hotel experience and it is what we call hotelization of the real estate. So, you really have your own home with your family, but as well with concierge, with valet parking, with the most fabulous gym really accessible from your home, with sometimes well-being directly, let\u0026#8217;s say, in the home and in the building of your apartment, with restaurants, with a fantastic pool, with really a true concierge laundry service that you could find in a hotel. Even to welcome your friends and family, some theatre, some cinema from a movie room with really vanguard technology. So, this is really a new iteration of the evolution of luxury with high-net-worth individuals, ultra-net-worth individuals, more and more buying this kind of villa and apartment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTo give you a hint about the trend, so far there are 700 branded residents across the globe. The pipeline for the next three years is 700 so in 20 years we built 700 branded residents and for the next three to five years there will be this add-on on the market with again, yeah, luxury guests that are looking for, let\u0026#8217;s say, mixing their daily lifestyle, their home with, let\u0026#8217;s say, really high level of service. Giving you as well some perspective about the brands in hospitality that are going to this elevation of luxury. It is hot news at Accor with the launch of Orient Express sailing yachts and Orient Express at Accor is defined more than a hotel brand, like a travel brand. And what do we mean by that is we have a few hotels in Rome, in Venice for the first one. We have some trains on the railway in Italy and as well we have a major sailing yacht that I just started in Cannes in the Mediterranean area, which is crazy in terms of space and luxury elevation and as well, Orient Express was recently in a museum in the Musée des Arts Décoratifs in Paris, with the exhibition around the Art décor. And why I\u0026#8217;m mentioning this brand it\u0026#8217;s a good illustration of what, let\u0026#8217;s say, elevation of luxury means and what the guests, the customers, are looking for in the museum, for example, they\u0026#8217;re looking for, let\u0026#8217;s say, nearly an emotional connection with the history of the brand, which is secular, born in 1883, so more than a century, they want to, let\u0026#8217;s say, understand the craftsmanship and indeed, how it was like 100 years ago. They want to be, of course, connected as well with the different experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I would say the third point that we can experience with the elevation of luxury that you, you\u0026#8217;ve mentioned, Gagandeep, is really with a transformative experience that is more and more incarnated with well-being and so again, taking the example of Orient Express, we will have a transatlantic way from Lisbon to Caribbeans of 14 days of wellbeing for the guests to reconnect with their body and with their mind. So, this is all of that and you know you can feel it very strongly focus on experience and it\u0026#8217;s resonating a lot with our trends related to beauty shift as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:34:48] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eThank you for sharing that. So maybe coming back to the next trends in namely, the one that you were mentioning, Gagandeep, related to enduring value. We know that luxury clients are increasingly focused on long-term value, durability, trust. How does this translate into hospitality? Do you see hospitality becoming an investment in lifestyle or well-being, rather than rather than just one-time experience we can offer in a hotel room, for instance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:35:30] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s a very good question, because when we\u0026#8217;re talking about enduring value, we associate that to an item and to luxury item, but it translates pretty well as well, to travel, to tourism. Because when you have this kind of very high-end luxury experiences, what the guests are looking for are, let\u0026#8217;s say, stories that they can tell to their loved ones when they\u0026#8217;re coming back home, but they want, as well, to create memories, long-lasting memories, that they will take with them for a long time, for their friends, for their family. So, this is where the enduring value is in this, let\u0026#8217;s say long-lasting memories, memories forever and how do you create that?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe good news is that to create these memorable moments, these memories forever are very much focused on the human touch. Clearly, AI technology will help us to automate the ordinary, but we will have to further humanize the extraordinary. And the good thing is that we create magic, we create these emotions, these experiences, thanks to our staff. In your report, as well, you mentioned, you know, the personalized customized concierge, etc., indeed, it\u0026#8217;s already very strong in our luxury and ultra luxury brands.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe have a butler at Raffles that is really aside the guests to create these exclusive events across the stay and to answer their needs that they didn\u0026#8217;t think they would have this need during their stay, but to create this magic and this strong relationship with the guest. And the fun fact I was sharing with you just before this report and this interview is that you know that I had the chance to stay in a strong well-being and eco-friendly brand Chablis, a Mexican brand with a fantastic hotel in Yucatán and they\u0026#8217;ve got a strong well-being component. But you know, I was not really aware of what was well-being at Chablis brand and the first part of the well-being experience starts with kind of an interview and one hour with a true shaman, una abuela, you know, and I was so impacted and moved with emotion and a bit transformed, I must say that I do not even remember the massage, after you know and it\u0026#8217;s really when we\u0026#8217;re talking about transformative experience, you know, memories that really last long, is typically this kind of experience where you have something that you could not imagine and that you\u0026#8217;re taking with you back home and continuing to, let\u0026#8217;s say, use every day in your life.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:38] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, maybe our last trend, it\u0026#8217;s about new frontiers, new territories of luxury and maybe we were wondering, looking ahead to maybe 2030 or maybe beyond, luxury clients are increasingly drawn to new frontier like extreme travels, new territories, even when we were mentioning in the report, space tourism and just wondering, what could be the next territories of luxury experience for a group like Accor?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:39:23] Agnès Roquefort: \u003c/strong\u003eSo there are many, but I would like to share not something that will happen in 20 years, but probably in two or three years is around the space and around the new frontiers and so you will be happy to know, Caroline, that we\u0026#8217;re working on a very concrete project in Cape Canaveral with some people that would like to invest in the space, let\u0026#8217;s say training, so the idea of that is to have a hotel with a space training area that allows, of course, astronauts as well as high-net-worth individual to train and to be ready to go to the space, but as well amateurs as yourself and myself, maybe, that want to have, let\u0026#8217;s say, a bit of flavour of what would be, let\u0026#8217;s say, a training for an astronaut like Thomas Pesquet. So you know, experiencing the dream that you can already experience, for example, in the sports with the tennis academy, like Mouratoglou, but just imagine that for the space in Cape Canaveral, or other places, and it\u0026#8217;s not in 20 years, it\u0026#8217;s really coming, probably in three, five years maximum.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:40:38] Caroline Le Bars: \u003c/strong\u003eI think you will have a lot of guests that would like to come, because we have already. So, thank you so much, Agnes, for your time and for sharing with us your valuable insight on these trends and happy to see what’s with the next, new territories you were mentioning, it will be more than happy for us to be part of the new experience and testers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:41:12] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eWe’ll be on the waiting for these trips. What a fantastic way to hear those stories and what\u0026#8217;s happening. And yes, thank you so much for sharing that. There\u0026#8217;s so much that is exciting there and also a way to see the insights in the report come to life, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:08] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eSo, look, we\u0026#8217;ve had a fabulous time. I can\u0026#8217;t believe it\u0026#8217;s gone so quickly. Anne-Laure, can I just come to you for your final reflections?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:17] Anne-Laure Colcy: \u003c/strong\u003eBut probably I just would like to say that there are many more in the report, for sure. We try to disclose it in a nutshell, as we say, but for sure, I hope that we will engage in conversations with our clients, prospects, friends as soon as possible and we are also able to customize the insight and the data for every maison and it will be a pleasure, for sure. Stay tuned.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:55:46] Gagandeep Gadri: \u003c/strong\u003eFantastic. I want to thank everyone, all of the speakers, for their great participation today. It\u0026#8217;s been really really great. And look, you know, I look at this and say, yes, there\u0026#8217;s a lot of change, but there\u0026#8217;s a lot of opportunity out there. Hopefully, today we\u0026#8217;ve excited you all about those possibilities and inspired you about what could be. You can access the full report on frog.co and like Anne-Laure said, please contact us if you want a deeper dive, go into more of the detail, and specifically what it could mean for you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download frog’s new report: \u0026#8216;\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury#the-new-lines-of-luxury\"\u003eThe New Lines of Luxury\u003c/a\u003e.\u0026#8217;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our panel – Agnès Roquefort, Chief Development Officer, Luxury \u0026amp; Lifestyle at Accor; Anne-Laure Colcy, Global Head of Luxury at frog; Caroline Le Bars, VP at frog; and Gagandeep Gadri, Managing Director at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFind a link to the \u003ca href=\"https://api.momindum.com/watch/uD3ia9PaDsrqbgrv0giXbw-jtXqaSKerKnk4Z9QLcxE.\"\u003efull webinar of this conversation\u003c/a\u003e, complete with even more insights from the report. Visit frog.co/contact to request report deep dives and a synthetic client demo from Anne-Laure and our \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/global-luxury\"\u003efrog luxury team\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eand Spotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"slug":"gagandeep-gadri","authorName":"Gagandeep Gadri","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGagandeep is an Executive Vice President and is the Managing Director of frog globally and the Head of frog in the United Kingdom. A future focused senior leader commanding 25 years of experience gained driving innovation, growth and delivering customer experience and digital projects across global brands. Above all, a bold innovator with the capacity to evoke positive change felt at both a human and organisational level.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Managing Director of frog, Part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":56862,"title":"Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First","filename":"Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","filesize":41568,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/gagandeep-gadri/attachment/gagandeep-gadri-managing-director-of-frog-customer-first/","alt":"","author":"28","description":"","caption":"","name":"gagandeep-gadri-managing-director-of-frog-customer-first","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":42755,"date":"2023-02-17 16:38:09","modified":"2023-02-17 16:38:09","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":500,"height":500,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":500,"mediumLargeHeight":500,"large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","largeWidth":500,"largeHeight":500,"1536X1536":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","1536X1536Width":500,"1536X1536Height":500,"2048X2048":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/17163809/Gagandeep-Gadri-Managing-Director-of-frog-Customer-First.jpg","2048X2048Width":500,"2048X2048Height":500}}},{"slug":"anne-laure","authorName":"Anne-Laure Colcy","bio":"\u003cp\u003eWith over 20 years of experience in the luxury and financial services sectors, Anne-Laure Colcy is an accomplished executive, currently leading the Global Luxury platform at Capgemini Invent. She brings deep expertise in the intersection of business development, marketing, culture and technology for the luxury industry, with a focus on the emotional connections with craft and heritage that drive customer engagement and brand loyalty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnne-Laure\u0026#8217;s approach is centered around understanding how technology can enhance the luxury experience while maintaining the emotional essence of the sector, the feeling of affection, which is essential in navigating the evolving needs of today’s high-end consumers. She is passionate about leveraging innovation to meet luxury’s unique challenges in a new era of mutations.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Executive Vice President, Head of Global Luxury, frog","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":81754,"title":"Anne-Laure-author","filename":"Anne-Laure-author.png","filesize":373889,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/anne-laure/attachment/anne-laure-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"anne-laure-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":81752,"date":"2025-05-08 18:55:14","modified":"2025-05-08 18:55:14","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":700,"height":700,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author-300x300.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","1536X1536Width":700,"1536X1536Height":700,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Anne-Laure-author.png","2048X2048Width":700,"2048X2048Height":700}}},{"slug":"caroline-le-bars","authorName":"Caroline Le Bars","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of Customer Strategy \u0026amp; Transformation at frog France, Caroline partners with leading luxury brands to reinvent customer experiences, client relationships and growth models. 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Must Keep up With the Speed of AI","description":"Long-term value depends on investing in strategy, research and human judgment alongside AI-powered products.","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eThe rise of AI-driven product development has dramatically reduced the cost of \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/connected-world\"\u003ebuilding digital products\u003c/a\u003e, while the speed at which products can be built has also accelerated significantly. Features that once sat on roadmaps for months can now move from idea to production in days. Most organizations see this as a productivity breakthrough. In practice, however, it has exposed a gap in how organizations learn from what they build.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTeams are shipping more—and faster—often without pausing to understand what those outputs deliver. This shift has created a clear imbalance: organizations overinvest in building while underinvesting in learning. The result is constant motion without clear direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhat matters now is not just producing AI-driven products at scale but ensuring that every build generates knowledge that informs what comes next. Learning must keep pace with creation. Otherwise, rapid delivery becomes noise rather than value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eAI is accelerating output—but not understanding\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs AI amplifies the pace of development, organizations face growing pressure to keep up with competitors. Teams focus on output, assuming that understanding will follow. Often, it does not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA few months after a product ships, the same question emerges: did it actually work?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNot in the narrow sense of whether it shipped successfully or scaled reliably, but whether it created meaningful value. Did it solve the right problem? Did it change behavior? Did it produce an outcome anyone can clearly connect to the effort invested? Unfortunately, these questions often remain unanswered.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe fact that many organizations cannot confidently answer the question “Did it actually work?” reflects how they are investing in AI products.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMost organizations are investing heavily in building—the work of generating, shipping and scaling products—because it is the most visible opportunity for AI automation. But the activities that happen before and after execution have not accelerated at the same rate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis means that organizations are becoming highly efficient at producing output while underinvesting in the activities that create understanding. In AI-driven product development the competitive advantage is shifting from implementation to judgment. The teams that pull ahead will not be those that build the most, but those that make better decisions before building and learn faster after shipping.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eHow to gain a competitive advantage in AI-powered product design\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe clearest way to understand this shift—away from solely building-focused and toward deeper understanding—is to look beyond roles and titles and focus on the underlying modes of work that shape every product organization:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFraming\u003c/strong\u003e defines what should be built, for whom and under what constraints.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBuilding\u003c/strong\u003e transforms those decisions into working products and experiences.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSensemaking\u003c/strong\u003e interprets what users actually do and turns those signals into better decisions for the next cycle.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHistorically, the cost of building constrained how quickly poor decisions could spread. AI changes that dynamic. As prototypes, features and interfaces become easier to generate, the work of framing the right problem and making sense of results is increasingly compressed, postponed or skipped entirely. When teams build faster than they learn, they amplify assumptions rather than insights.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eFraming\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFraming defines what gets built, for whom, with what trade-offs and in what form. The output is not a requirements document. It is a decision architecture: a set of constraints, priorities and validated assumptions that provide the baseline clarity needed to guide building without losing direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStrong decision architecture makes hard trade-offs explicit before building begins. It answers questions such as: which user segment are we solving for and which are we deliberately not? What does success look like in measurable terms? What existing behavior are we displacing and why would someone switch?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt also includes the structural design decisions that shape how users experience the product, including the information architecture, the primary user flows and the interaction model that determines whether the product feels coherent or fragmented.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWeak decision architecture defers these questions or worse, assumes alignment that does not exist. It forces the team to uncover disagreements mid-build, when the cost of changing direction has already increased significantly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis level of precision matters more than ever. When you send a vague prompt to an AI coding agent, it does not pause to ask for clarification. It builds confidently in the wrong direction. In a world of \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003eautonomous agents\u003c/a\u003e, ambiguity is the most expensive input in the system. It leads to repeated cycles, token overages and environmental impact. Framing reduces this ambiguity.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI makes it easier than ever to build directionless products at scale. Most teams will not resist this temptation. They will use AI to scale unclear thinking, generating more output without increasing value. The teams that succeed are those that become more selective, not less, as building becomes cheaper.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe planning trap\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen framing, it is important not to fall into the planning trap. Done well, framing creates clarity, alignment and direction. It ensures teams are solving the right problem before they start building.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe risk emerges when framing becomes disconnected from progress. A team can spend six weeks aligning on a strategy document, while a competitor tests and learns from a working version of the same idea. The work may be thorough, but its impact is reduced if it arrives too late.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI makes this tension more visible. Prototyping is now fast and accessible. When a working version can be created in an afternoon, the role of framing shifts. Its value is no longer in depth alone, but in how quickly it enables informed action.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStrong framing is therefore measured by what it unlocks. It should guide teams toward smarter decisions and faster learning, not delay them. The goal is not to move faster at the expense of thinking, but to ensure that thinking translates into progress.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eBuilding\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBuilding has shifted from a problem of implementation toward managing direction under conditions of rapid generation. It operates within constraints defined in Framing, translating intent into working systems and iterating as new information emerges.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe core challenge is no longer whether something can be built, but whether what’s built remains true to its intent and solves the problems it sought to address.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI systems can reliably generate outputs that compile correctly, follow the standards of good product design and appear—much like a movie set—to look complete and convincing from the right angle while lacking the structure behind the facade. Very quickly, problems emerge through accumulation: how features interact, how decisions compound and how progress in a consistent direction is preserved across repeated changes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe doom loop\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDuring any building phase, organizations should beware of the doom loop. A team may be tempted to begin prompting before it has clarified what it wants, changes direction mid-build and produces output so layered with conflicting decisions that no agent can untangle it. Starting over becomes cheaper than debugging. This is the clearest signal that the upstream work was skipped.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eSensemaking\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensemaking links outcomes to action by interpreting what occurred, why it occurred and what should change as a result. This function is one that organizations often underestimate until it is too late.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI can surface what happened, but it cannot yet adequately explain why. Why did adoption stall? Why does a feature resonate in one segment but not another? A designer who can read the gap between the story the team intended to tell and the story users are actually experiencing is doing the same sensemaking work as a researcher conducting interviews, but in a different medium. Without someone who can read those signals and translate them back into planning priorities, the team does not merely lose touch with the market, it also loses the ability to know whether it is succeeding. Internal metrics drift from external reality. The organization optimizes for numbers that no longer correspond to value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe narrative lock\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensemaking involves building compelling explanations for why things are working, and over time the organization stops questioning them. A product narrative that resonated six months ago can persist even as user behavior shifts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNew data that contradicts the story gets dismissed as noise because the story already has buy-in. Good stories are sticky. And sticky stories resist revision.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBy the time someone says, “Wait, that’s not what we’re seeing anymore,” the roadmap is already built on an outdated interpretation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the narrative lock. When sensemaking, it’s important to be actively aware of it—and deliberately work to avoid it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eRebalancing the system\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen execution becomes cheaper and faster, clarity becomes the limiting factor. For decades, software organizations were constrained by the cost of implementation. AI removes that constraint and exposes a new one: the capacity to learn fast enough to direct increasingly powerful systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe teams pulling ahead are those rebalancing their systems rather than chasing new tools. They strengthen framing to make trade-offs explicit before building begins, and they elevate sensemaking to interpret outcomes without falling into narrative traps. They treat tools like synthetic personas as accelerators of thinking, never replacements for human judgment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe goal is not additional process, but a tighter feedback loop: framing defines the problem, building tests the experience and sensemaking anchors the next cycle in reality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe new competitive advantage\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSpeed alone should never signal progress. True advantage belongs to organizations that can turn AI acceleration into sustained, compounding knowledge.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":86669,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-04-20 17:47:35","post_date_gmt":"2026-04-20 17:47:35","post_content":"","post_title":"Rustin Afshordi","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"rustin-afshordi","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-05-25 19:17:26","post_modified_gmt":"2026-05-25 19:17:26","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=86669","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Rustin Afshordi","bio":"\u003cp\u003eRustin is a leader in frog’s product management practice, where he balances strategy with execution to help teams cut through ambiguity and build net new products and experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHe holds a bachelor’s degree in economics from UC Santa Barbara and an MBA from NYU Stern. 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18:20:03","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header-150x150.gif","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header-300x115.gif","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header-768x294.gif","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header-1024x393.gif","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header.gif","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":552,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai-header.gif","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":552}},"videoFile":false,"title":"Learning Must Keep up With the Speed of AI","description":"Long-term value depends on investing in strategy, research and human judgment alongside AI-powered products.","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eThe rise of AI-driven product development has dramatically reduced the cost of \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/services/connected-world\"\u003ebuilding digital products\u003c/a\u003e, while the speed at which products can be built has also accelerated significantly. Features that once sat on roadmaps for months can now move from idea to production in days. Most organizations see this as a productivity breakthrough. In practice, however, it has exposed a gap in how organizations learn from what they build.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTeams are shipping more—and faster—often without pausing to understand what those outputs deliver. This shift has created a clear imbalance: organizations overinvest in building while underinvesting in learning. The result is constant motion without clear direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhat matters now is not just producing AI-driven products at scale but ensuring that every build generates knowledge that informs what comes next. Learning must keep pace with creation. Otherwise, rapid delivery becomes noise rather than value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eAI is accelerating output—but not understanding\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs AI amplifies the pace of development, organizations face growing pressure to keep up with competitors. Teams focus on output, assuming that understanding will follow. Often, it does not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA few months after a product ships, the same question emerges: did it actually work?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNot in the narrow sense of whether it shipped successfully or scaled reliably, but whether it created meaningful value. Did it solve the right problem? Did it change behavior? Did it produce an outcome anyone can clearly connect to the effort invested? Unfortunately, these questions often remain unanswered.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe fact that many organizations cannot confidently answer the question “Did it actually work?” reflects how they are investing in AI products.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMost organizations are investing heavily in building—the work of generating, shipping and scaling products—because it is the most visible opportunity for AI automation. But the activities that happen before and after execution have not accelerated at the same rate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis means that organizations are becoming highly efficient at producing output while underinvesting in the activities that create understanding. In AI-driven product development the competitive advantage is shifting from implementation to judgment. The teams that pull ahead will not be those that build the most, but those that make better decisions before building and learn faster after shipping.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eHow to gain a competitive advantage in AI-powered product design\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe clearest way to understand this shift—away from solely building-focused and toward deeper understanding—is to look beyond roles and titles and focus on the underlying modes of work that shape every product organization:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFraming\u003c/strong\u003e defines what should be built, for whom and under what constraints.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBuilding\u003c/strong\u003e transforms those decisions into working products and experiences.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSensemaking\u003c/strong\u003e interprets what users actually do and turns those signals into better decisions for the next cycle.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHistorically, the cost of building constrained how quickly poor decisions could spread. AI changes that dynamic. As prototypes, features and interfaces become easier to generate, the work of framing the right problem and making sense of results is increasingly compressed, postponed or skipped entirely. When teams build faster than they learn, they amplify assumptions rather than insights.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eFraming\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFraming defines what gets built, for whom, with what trade-offs and in what form. The output is not a requirements document. It is a decision architecture: a set of constraints, priorities and validated assumptions that provide the baseline clarity needed to guide building without losing direction.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStrong decision architecture makes hard trade-offs explicit before building begins. It answers questions such as: which user segment are we solving for and which are we deliberately not? What does success look like in measurable terms? What existing behavior are we displacing and why would someone switch?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt also includes the structural design decisions that shape how users experience the product, including the information architecture, the primary user flows and the interaction model that determines whether the product feels coherent or fragmented.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWeak decision architecture defers these questions or worse, assumes alignment that does not exist. It forces the team to uncover disagreements mid-build, when the cost of changing direction has already increased significantly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis level of precision matters more than ever. When you send a vague prompt to an AI coding agent, it does not pause to ask for clarification. It builds confidently in the wrong direction. In a world of \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003eautonomous agents\u003c/a\u003e, ambiguity is the most expensive input in the system. It leads to repeated cycles, token overages and environmental impact. Framing reduces this ambiguity.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI makes it easier than ever to build directionless products at scale. Most teams will not resist this temptation. They will use AI to scale unclear thinking, generating more output without increasing value. The teams that succeed are those that become more selective, not less, as building becomes cheaper.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe planning trap\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen framing, it is important not to fall into the planning trap. Done well, framing creates clarity, alignment and direction. It ensures teams are solving the right problem before they start building.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe risk emerges when framing becomes disconnected from progress. A team can spend six weeks aligning on a strategy document, while a competitor tests and learns from a working version of the same idea. The work may be thorough, but its impact is reduced if it arrives too late.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI makes this tension more visible. Prototyping is now fast and accessible. When a working version can be created in an afternoon, the role of framing shifts. Its value is no longer in depth alone, but in how quickly it enables informed action.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStrong framing is therefore measured by what it unlocks. It should guide teams toward smarter decisions and faster learning, not delay them. The goal is not to move faster at the expense of thinking, but to ensure that thinking translates into progress.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eBuilding\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBuilding has shifted from a problem of implementation toward managing direction under conditions of rapid generation. It operates within constraints defined in Framing, translating intent into working systems and iterating as new information emerges.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe core challenge is no longer whether something can be built, but whether what’s built remains true to its intent and solves the problems it sought to address.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI systems can reliably generate outputs that compile correctly, follow the standards of good product design and appear—much like a movie set—to look complete and convincing from the right angle while lacking the structure behind the facade. Very quickly, problems emerge through accumulation: how features interact, how decisions compound and how progress in a consistent direction is preserved across repeated changes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe doom loop\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDuring any building phase, organizations should beware of the doom loop. A team may be tempted to begin prompting before it has clarified what it wants, changes direction mid-build and produces output so layered with conflicting decisions that no agent can untangle it. Starting over becomes cheaper than debugging. This is the clearest signal that the upstream work was skipped.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eSensemaking\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensemaking links outcomes to action by interpreting what occurred, why it occurred and what should change as a result. This function is one that organizations often underestimate until it is too late.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI can surface what happened, but it cannot yet adequately explain why. Why did adoption stall? Why does a feature resonate in one segment but not another? A designer who can read the gap between the story the team intended to tell and the story users are actually experiencing is doing the same sensemaking work as a researcher conducting interviews, but in a different medium. Without someone who can read those signals and translate them back into planning priorities, the team does not merely lose touch with the market, it also loses the ability to know whether it is succeeding. Internal metrics drift from external reality. The organization optimizes for numbers that no longer correspond to value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe narrative lock\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensemaking involves building compelling explanations for why things are working, and over time the organization stops questioning them. A product narrative that resonated six months ago can persist even as user behavior shifts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNew data that contradicts the story gets dismissed as noise because the story already has buy-in. Good stories are sticky. And sticky stories resist revision.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBy the time someone says, “Wait, that’s not what we’re seeing anymore,” the roadmap is already built on an outdated interpretation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the narrative lock. When sensemaking, it’s important to be actively aware of it—and deliberately work to avoid it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003eRebalancing the system\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen execution becomes cheaper and faster, clarity becomes the limiting factor. For decades, software organizations were constrained by the cost of implementation. AI removes that constraint and exposes a new one: the capacity to learn fast enough to direct increasingly powerful systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe teams pulling ahead are those rebalancing their systems rather than chasing new tools. They strengthen framing to make trade-offs explicit before building begins, and they elevate sensemaking to interpret outcomes without falling into narrative traps. They treat tools like synthetic personas as accelerators of thinking, never replacements for human judgment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe goal is not additional process, but a tighter feedback loop: framing defines the problem, building tests the experience and sensemaking anchors the next cycle in reality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe new competitive advantage\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSpeed alone should never signal progress. True advantage belongs to organizations that can turn AI acceleration into sustained, compounding knowledge.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"rustin-afshordi","authorName":"Rustin Afshordi","bio":"\u003cp\u003eRustin is a leader in frog’s product management practice, where he balances strategy with execution to help teams cut through ambiguity and build net new products and experiences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHe holds a bachelor’s degree in economics from UC Santa Barbara and an MBA from NYU Stern. Outside of work, he’s a casual golfer, wannabe musician, and can usually be found hiking in the Oakland hills with his adopted mutt, Phife Dog.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Director of Product Management, frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":86685,"title":"Rustin-Afshordi-author","filename":"Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","filesize":82429,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/rustin-afshordi/attachment/rustin-afshordi-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"rustin-afshordi-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86669,"date":"2026-04-20 17:50:05","modified":"2026-04-20 17:50:05","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":900,"height":900,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author-768x768.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":900,"1536X1536Height":900,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Rustin-Afshordi-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":900,"2048X2048Height":900}}},{"slug":"emma-brennan","authorName":"Emma Brennan","bio":"\u003cp\u003eEmma is a design lead specializing in interactions across physical and digital environments. Her work combines research, systems thinking, and experimentation to explore emerging forms of engagement with intelligent technologies, with projects spanning top organizations in tech, aviation, finance and online marketplaces.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Associate Design Director, frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":86671,"title":"Emma-Brennan-author","filename":"Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","filesize":82683,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/rustin-afshordi/attachment/emma-brennan-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"emma-brennan-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86669,"date":"2026-04-20 17:49:58","modified":"2026-04-20 17:49:58","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":900,"height":900,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author-768x768.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":900,"1536X1536Height":900,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Emma-Brennan-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":900,"2048X2048Height":900}}},{"slug":"erica-efstratoudakis","authorName":"Erica Efstratoudakis","bio":"\u003cp\u003eErica is a multidisciplinary design lead with over a decade of experience at the intersection of strategy, UX, and visual craft. She specializes in turning ambiguous, early-stage opportunities into clear, scalable product experiences that drive meaningful user and business outcomes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eCurrently an Associate Design Director at frog, she leads end-to-end design programs, from vision and alignment through to delivery. Erica thrives in complex spaces, using concepts, prototypes, and strategic rigor to help teams define what to build and why, and to create experiences that are both intuitive and emotionally resonant.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Associate Design Director, frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":86678,"title":"Erica-Efstratoudakis-author","filename":"Erica-Efstratoudakis-author.jpg","filesize":66108,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Erica-Efstratoudakis-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/rustin-afshordi/attachment/erica-efstratoudakis-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"erica-efstratoudakis-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86669,"date":"2026-04-20 17:50:01","modified":"2026-04-20 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Must Keep up With the Speed of AI","url":"/designmind/learning-must-keep-up-with-the-speed-of-ai"},"featuredArticles":{"eyebrow":"Related work","useHomeData":false,"articles":[{"title":"Augmenting DesignOps with AI-Powered Design Systems","description":"Article","image":{"id":82821,"title":"Augmenting-DesignOps-share_image","filename":"Augmenting-DesignOps-share_image.png","filesize":579745,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Augmenting-DesignOps-share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/augmenting-designops-with-ai-powered-systems/attachment/augmenting-designops-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"augmenting-designops-share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":82550,"date":"2025-07-16 15:28:54","modified":"2025-07-16 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17:18:15","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1200,"height":630,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image-300x158.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":158,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image-768x403.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":336,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image-1024x538.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":336,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image.jpg","1536X1536Width":1200,"1536X1536Height":630,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Ep58_Futurescape_Design_Partnerships_Jess_Leitch_share_image.jpg","2048X2048Width":1200,"2048X2048Height":630}},"cta":{"url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-58-when-human-connection-meets-ai","external":false,"extraClassNames":""}},{"title":"Retaining Human Knowledge with AI","description":"National Grid","image":{"id":86818,"title":"retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image","filename":"retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image.png","filesize":242335,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/work/retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai/attachment/retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"retaining-human-knowledge-with-ai_share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85419,"date":"2026-04-30 18:27:06","modified":"2026-04-30 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18:46:15","modified":"2026-07-07 18:46:15","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-150x150.gif","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-300x115.gif","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-768x294.gif","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-1024x393.gif","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header.gif","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":552,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header.gif","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":552}},"video_file":false,"title":"Agentic Commerce Is Still Waiting For Its ChatGPT Moment","description":"With infrastructure being built for agentic commerce, we explore how global brands are preparing, the impact on consumers and the potential for rapid change.","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch2\u003eBuilding trust in agentic commerce: Where brands should begin\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe infrastructure for AI agents to browse and make purchases on behalf of humans is being built. Consumers are curious, some even enthusiastic, but the vast majority of us are not yet ready to hand over our wallets to an unproven technology. The smartest place for brands to start looks a lot more familiar.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat is agentic commerce?\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen ChatGPT launched in late 2022, it didn\u0026#8217;t just introduce a new capability, it finally gave consumers a mental model that they were comfortable with for \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003ehow to interact with AI\u003c/a\u003e. The ease of the chat interface unlocked mass adoption in a way that years of prior AI work had not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAgentic commerce (the idea of AI agents acting on your behalf to discover, evaluate and purchase products and services) has not yet had that moment. But the infrastructure is under construction. Visa and Mastercard are building agent payment rails while Amex is developing frameworks for autonomous transactions. But we are still waiting for the on ramp that placates consumer concerns and makes us feel comfortable giving an agent our credit card details.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://business.adobe.com/resources/digital-trends-consumer-report.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eAdobe\u0026#8217;s 2026 Digital Trends Consumer Report\u003c/a\u003e, a global survey of 4,000 consumers, quantifies that gap.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e22%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEarly adopters\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nFirst to try new tools. Use AI regularly—more than double the survey average.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003e~25% already have their own AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e61%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSecondary adopters\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nOpen to new technology when it proves useful but prefer to wait for broader adoption.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003eOnly 7% have their own AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e17%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eHoldouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAvoid new technology whenever possible or only use it when they have no choice.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003eMajority oppose creating an AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat tells us that the consumers who are genuinely agent-ready today are a minority within a minority. Even among the curious, Adobe\u0026#8217;s data reveals a significant gap between interest and intent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e43%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof consumers would be willing to try a brand’s AI personal concierge or agent if the service is offered.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e19%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ewant a future where AI agents become their primary way of interacting with brands.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis gap between those willing to try AI agents and those using them as their default option is the trust and experience gap the industry needs to close. But closing this gap is not a technology problem; it\u0026#8217;s a design problem.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eWhat early agentic commerce experiments reveal about consumer behavior\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOpenAI tested this boundary already and learned from it. In September 2025, the company launched Instant Checkout inside ChatGPT with Etsy and Shopify merchants, with Stripe powering the transaction layer. The premise made a lot of sense. Users already ask ChatGPT what to buy, so why route them somewhere else to pay? Six months later, the feature was quietly shelved. Users browsed in enormous numbers; they just didn\u0026#8217;t buy. Etsy, one of the first merchants to participate, confirmed it saw no meaningful sales volume from the feature.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eForrester\u0026#8217;s \u003ca href=\"https://www.forrester.com/webinar/the-state-of-agentic-commerce-2026/WEB192730?ref_search=3443252_1779375658718\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eState of Agentic Commerce, 2026\u003c/a\u003e reinforces why: among US consumers who regularly use answer engines, completing a purchase within the answer engine was the least-adopted use case. Coming in well behind asking general questions and researching products.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e“The discovery layer worked. The transaction layer did not. This isn’t a failure of agentic commerce—it’s a signal about sequencing.”\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e–\u003ca href=\"https://www.forrester.com/webinar/the-state-of-agentic-commerce-2026/WEB192730?ref_search=3443252_1779375658718\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eForrester (2026)\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eIn no way does this signal that OpenAI is abandoning commerce. These insights have revamped ChatGPT’s shopping experience to focus on discovery and comparison, which is an acknowledgment that this is where consumers are actually ready to engage.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe brands and platforms that will win in the agentic commerce era are those that use this window to earn trust, not assume it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eLeading brands are already taking the natural first step\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhile the industry debates the future, a commerce shift is already delivering real results by making use of a modality that consumers already enjoy. Agentic commerce will go far beyond conversation, but conversational experiences are emerging as the natural first step. This is because they translate emerging capability into behavior consumers already understand and embrace.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eUsing Google’s Gemini Enterprise for CX, Macy’s built “Ask Macy’s,” their multimodal AI shopping concierge, in just four weeks. The agent handles natural language queries, offers a virtual try-on feature and responds to nuanced prompts, such as ‘I’m petite, I value natural fabrics and I need something that works from the office to a dinner engagement.’ Early beta data shows revenue per visit was roughly \u003ca href=\"https://www.forbes.com/sites/renanaashkenazi/2026/03/30/macys-475x-shopping-jump-proves-ai-can-move-the-top-line/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e4.75 times higher\u003c/a\u003e among customers who engaged with Ask Macy’s compared to those who didn’t. This is a significant improvement in what the digital retail experience can deliver.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn the home furnishing sphere, IKEA deployed a conversational AI agent, “Billy,” to handle routine customer queries. Billy now handles \u003ca href=\"https://www.peoplematters.in/news/ai-and-emerging-tech/ai-replaces-routine-work-at-ikea-employees-move-into-new-roles-49091\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003earound 57% of interactions\u003c/a\u003e without human intervention. For the remaining 43%, IKEA learned that customers wanted advice–mostly related to interior design. So, IKEA reskilled the service workforce, turning employees into design consultants. The resulting paid consultancy offering has generated close to \u003ca href=\"https://www.storyboard18.com/brand-marketing/ikea-avoids-layoffs-ai-handles-routine-work-and-unlocks-new-revenue-stream-ws-l-94092.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e€1 billion in additional revenue\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWalmart has taken a different angle, embedding its “Sparky” assistant into its app. The company has also partnered with both OpenAI and Google to bring its product catalog into the discovery experience within ChatGPT and Gemini. In an internal survey, \u003ca href=\"https://www.adweek.com/commerce/walmart-opens-up-ads-in-gen-ai-shopping-agent-sparky/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e81% of Walmart customers\u003c/a\u003e said they used Sparky to check product availability or review specifications before purchasing. Tellingly, this is a behavior that is anchored in research rather than transactions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe discovery problem: don’t automate the best part\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOne of the most important tensions in agentic commerce is that some of what we’d term the friction in shopping isn’t friction at all; it’s the fun part, building anticipation and reinsurance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor many of us, the joy of a vacation begins long before the plane leaves the runway. A two-week stay becomes a month-long experience simply by planning the places we want to visit weeks earlier. We actually want to compare all those cruises and theme parks to make sure we’re not missing out on something better. But if an agent could book them for us in the blink of an eye, are we eliminating the anticipation and the deliberation that is part of the joy?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA well-crafted conversational commerce experience that is a first step toward agentic commerce can optimize the process while retaining the anticipatory magic. Instead of collapsing discovery into a transaction, it can enrich it, weaving in imagery, video and dynamic UI that creates something no static page can match. The goal isn’t efficiency alone; it’s discovery that feels as compelling as the purchase. And crucially, Adobe’s data shows that the option to hand off to a human remains important across all consumer types, even for early adopters. That preference for a safety valve is a design brief, not an obstacle.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eImagining new discovery experiences, each distinctly shaped by what a brand stands for and uniquely offers, will be one of the most effective ways to stay close to consumers and avoid full agentic disintermediation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eFrom push to pull: redesigning for the agentic era\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere’s a broader strategic shift embedded in all of this. For the past decade, personalization has been a fundamentally push model: brands tracked, listened and followed consumers, serving content that was often as creepy as it was useful. The era of AI-native marketing and agentic commerce inverts this. Customers call on the brand when they are ready. Today, that happens through a conversational interface; tomorrow, it will be through an agent. The brand’s job is to be findable, legible and compelling when that moment arrives. This requires brands to think differently about readiness: less of ‘how do we reach customers’ and more of ‘how do we make ourselves worth reaching.’\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eConversational commerce is the first practical place to build that muscle and to build the trust infrastructure that agentic commerce optimization will eventually require.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat step one actually looks like\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor brands ready to embrace agentic AI, the entry point is more accessible than it might seem. Replacing or augmenting on-site search with a conversational layer that handles discovery, answers nuanced questions and surfaces personalized content is buildable today. The design challenge, making it feel genuinely useful rather than like an overgrown chatbot, is the real challenge for brands. From there, a natural progression emerges: dynamic UI that responds to conversation context, integration with warm handoffs from LLM searches, contextual templates that adapt to different customer intents, and, ultimately, the payment and trust infrastructure that will underpin true agentic commerce protocols.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe brands that will be ready when agentic commerce finds its ChatGPT moment are the ones currently building the foundation. This is not because they are chasing a trend, but because conversational commerce is genuinely better for their customers today.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe think that Dynamic or Contextual UI has a big role to play in the future of both Agentic Commerce and AI Native Products and Services. Stay tuned for the next article, we will write more about this.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":47843,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2022-10-13 15:45:26","post_date_gmt":"2022-10-13 15:45:26","post_content":"","post_title":"Clément Lacroix","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"clement-lacroix","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2025-07-28 18:49:31","post_modified_gmt":"2025-07-28 18:49:31","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=47843","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Clément Lacroix ","bio":"\u003cp\u003eClément is a Vice President at frog, part of Capgemini Invent, and is based in New York. He serves as the global lead for frog’s Experience Everywhere offer, an approach designed to craft, deliver, and transform iconic experiences for iconic brands. Clement has worked across various industries, including retail, hospitality, financial services, and automotive, and has managed teams of customer experience specialists, designers, and technologists creating lasting impact for multiple brands. He was previously based in France, where he notably led the launch of a mobile bank.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Vice President, frog New York","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":83062,"id":83062,"title":"Clement_Lacroix-author","filename":"Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","filesize":50250,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/clement-lacroix/attachment/clement_lacroix-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"clement_lacroix-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":47843,"date":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","modified":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":800,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-768x768.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":640,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","1536x1536-width":800,"1536x1536-height":800,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","2048x2048-width":800,"2048x2048-height":800}}},"author_featured":[{"ID":47760,"post_author":"36","post_date":"2022-11-02 17:32:00","post_date_gmt":"2022-11-02 17:32:00","post_content":"","post_title":"Transforming Your B2B Experience with ABM","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"transforming-your-b2b-experience-with-abm","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2024-01-10 22:59:48","post_modified_gmt":"2024-01-10 22:59:48","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=designmind\u0026#038;p=47760","menu_order":0,"post_type":"designmind","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw"}]},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/clement-lacroix/"},{"ID":36590,"post_author":"16","post_date":"2021-10-11 18:51:43","post_date_gmt":"2021-10-11 18:51:43","post_content":"","post_title":"Jess Leitch","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"jessica-leitch","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2024-11-08 17:01:38","post_modified_gmt":"2024-11-08 17:01:38","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=36590","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Jess Leitch","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of frog North America, Jess is responsible for leading the frog business in North America. 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In London, she received her Masters in Service Design.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Head of frog North America","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":36591,"id":36591,"title":"jessica-leitch","filename":"jessica-leitch.png","filesize":61348,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/attachment/jessica-leitch/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jessica-leitch","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":36590,"date":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","modified":"2021-10-11 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18:46:15","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-150x150.gif","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-300x115.gif","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-768x294.gif","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header-1024x393.gif","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header.gif","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":552,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-header.gif","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":552}},"videoFile":false,"title":"Agentic Commerce Is Still Waiting For Its ChatGPT Moment","description":"With infrastructure being built for agentic commerce, we explore how global brands are preparing, the impact on consumers and the potential for rapid change.","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch2\u003eBuilding trust in agentic commerce: Where brands should begin\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe infrastructure for AI agents to browse and make purchases on behalf of humans is being built. Consumers are curious, some even enthusiastic, but the vast majority of us are not yet ready to hand over our wallets to an unproven technology. The smartest place for brands to start looks a lot more familiar.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat is agentic commerce?\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen ChatGPT launched in late 2022, it didn\u0026#8217;t just introduce a new capability, it finally gave consumers a mental model that they were comfortable with for \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003ehow to interact with AI\u003c/a\u003e. The ease of the chat interface unlocked mass adoption in a way that years of prior AI work had not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAgentic commerce (the idea of AI agents acting on your behalf to discover, evaluate and purchase products and services) has not yet had that moment. But the infrastructure is under construction. Visa and Mastercard are building agent payment rails while Amex is developing frameworks for autonomous transactions. But we are still waiting for the on ramp that placates consumer concerns and makes us feel comfortable giving an agent our credit card details.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://business.adobe.com/resources/digital-trends-consumer-report.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eAdobe\u0026#8217;s 2026 Digital Trends Consumer Report\u003c/a\u003e, a global survey of 4,000 consumers, quantifies that gap.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e22%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEarly adopters\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nFirst to try new tools. Use AI regularly—more than double the survey average.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003e~25% already have their own AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e61%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSecondary adopters\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nOpen to new technology when it proves useful but prefer to wait for broader adoption.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003eOnly 7% have their own AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e17%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eHoldouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nAvoid new technology whenever possible or only use it when they have no choice.\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003ci\u003eMajority oppose creating an AI agent.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat tells us that the consumers who are genuinely agent-ready today are a minority within a minority. Even among the curious, Adobe\u0026#8217;s data reveals a significant gap between interest and intent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e43%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof consumers would be willing to try a brand’s AI personal concierge or agent if the service is offered.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e19%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ewant a future where AI agents become their primary way of interacting with brands.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis gap between those willing to try AI agents and those using them as their default option is the trust and experience gap the industry needs to close. But closing this gap is not a technology problem; it\u0026#8217;s a design problem.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eWhat early agentic commerce experiments reveal about consumer behavior\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOpenAI tested this boundary already and learned from it. In September 2025, the company launched Instant Checkout inside ChatGPT with Etsy and Shopify merchants, with Stripe powering the transaction layer. The premise made a lot of sense. Users already ask ChatGPT what to buy, so why route them somewhere else to pay? Six months later, the feature was quietly shelved. Users browsed in enormous numbers; they just didn\u0026#8217;t buy. Etsy, one of the first merchants to participate, confirmed it saw no meaningful sales volume from the feature.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eForrester\u0026#8217;s \u003ca href=\"https://www.forrester.com/webinar/the-state-of-agentic-commerce-2026/WEB192730?ref_search=3443252_1779375658718\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eState of Agentic Commerce, 2026\u003c/a\u003e reinforces why: among US consumers who regularly use answer engines, completing a purchase within the answer engine was the least-adopted use case. Coming in well behind asking general questions and researching products.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e“The discovery layer worked. The transaction layer did not. This isn’t a failure of agentic commerce—it’s a signal about sequencing.”\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e–\u003ca href=\"https://www.forrester.com/webinar/the-state-of-agentic-commerce-2026/WEB192730?ref_search=3443252_1779375658718\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eForrester (2026)\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eIn no way does this signal that OpenAI is abandoning commerce. These insights have revamped ChatGPT’s shopping experience to focus on discovery and comparison, which is an acknowledgment that this is where consumers are actually ready to engage.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe brands and platforms that will win in the agentic commerce era are those that use this window to earn trust, not assume it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eLeading brands are already taking the natural first step\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhile the industry debates the future, a commerce shift is already delivering real results by making use of a modality that consumers already enjoy. Agentic commerce will go far beyond conversation, but conversational experiences are emerging as the natural first step. This is because they translate emerging capability into behavior consumers already understand and embrace.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eUsing Google’s Gemini Enterprise for CX, Macy’s built “Ask Macy’s,” their multimodal AI shopping concierge, in just four weeks. The agent handles natural language queries, offers a virtual try-on feature and responds to nuanced prompts, such as ‘I’m petite, I value natural fabrics and I need something that works from the office to a dinner engagement.’ Early beta data shows revenue per visit was roughly \u003ca href=\"https://www.forbes.com/sites/renanaashkenazi/2026/03/30/macys-475x-shopping-jump-proves-ai-can-move-the-top-line/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e4.75 times higher\u003c/a\u003e among customers who engaged with Ask Macy’s compared to those who didn’t. This is a significant improvement in what the digital retail experience can deliver.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn the home furnishing sphere, IKEA deployed a conversational AI agent, “Billy,” to handle routine customer queries. Billy now handles \u003ca href=\"https://www.peoplematters.in/news/ai-and-emerging-tech/ai-replaces-routine-work-at-ikea-employees-move-into-new-roles-49091\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003earound 57% of interactions\u003c/a\u003e without human intervention. For the remaining 43%, IKEA learned that customers wanted advice–mostly related to interior design. So, IKEA reskilled the service workforce, turning employees into design consultants. The resulting paid consultancy offering has generated close to \u003ca href=\"https://www.storyboard18.com/brand-marketing/ikea-avoids-layoffs-ai-handles-routine-work-and-unlocks-new-revenue-stream-ws-l-94092.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e€1 billion in additional revenue\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWalmart has taken a different angle, embedding its “Sparky” assistant into its app. The company has also partnered with both OpenAI and Google to bring its product catalog into the discovery experience within ChatGPT and Gemini. In an internal survey, \u003ca href=\"https://www.adweek.com/commerce/walmart-opens-up-ads-in-gen-ai-shopping-agent-sparky/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e81% of Walmart customers\u003c/a\u003e said they used Sparky to check product availability or review specifications before purchasing. Tellingly, this is a behavior that is anchored in research rather than transactions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe discovery problem: don’t automate the best part\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOne of the most important tensions in agentic commerce is that some of what we’d term the friction in shopping isn’t friction at all; it’s the fun part, building anticipation and reinsurance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor many of us, the joy of a vacation begins long before the plane leaves the runway. A two-week stay becomes a month-long experience simply by planning the places we want to visit weeks earlier. We actually want to compare all those cruises and theme parks to make sure we’re not missing out on something better. But if an agent could book them for us in the blink of an eye, are we eliminating the anticipation and the deliberation that is part of the joy?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA well-crafted conversational commerce experience that is a first step toward agentic commerce can optimize the process while retaining the anticipatory magic. Instead of collapsing discovery into a transaction, it can enrich it, weaving in imagery, video and dynamic UI that creates something no static page can match. The goal isn’t efficiency alone; it’s discovery that feels as compelling as the purchase. And crucially, Adobe’s data shows that the option to hand off to a human remains important across all consumer types, even for early adopters. That preference for a safety valve is a design brief, not an obstacle.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eImagining new discovery experiences, each distinctly shaped by what a brand stands for and uniquely offers, will be one of the most effective ways to stay close to consumers and avoid full agentic disintermediation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eFrom push to pull: redesigning for the agentic era\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere’s a broader strategic shift embedded in all of this. For the past decade, personalization has been a fundamentally push model: brands tracked, listened and followed consumers, serving content that was often as creepy as it was useful. The era of AI-native marketing and agentic commerce inverts this. Customers call on the brand when they are ready. Today, that happens through a conversational interface; tomorrow, it will be through an agent. The brand’s job is to be findable, legible and compelling when that moment arrives. This requires brands to think differently about readiness: less of ‘how do we reach customers’ and more of ‘how do we make ourselves worth reaching.’\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eConversational commerce is the first practical place to build that muscle and to build the trust infrastructure that agentic commerce optimization will eventually require.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat step one actually looks like\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor brands ready to embrace agentic AI, the entry point is more accessible than it might seem. Replacing or augmenting on-site search with a conversational layer that handles discovery, answers nuanced questions and surfaces personalized content is buildable today. The design challenge, making it feel genuinely useful rather than like an overgrown chatbot, is the real challenge for brands. From there, a natural progression emerges: dynamic UI that responds to conversation context, integration with warm handoffs from LLM searches, contextual templates that adapt to different customer intents, and, ultimately, the payment and trust infrastructure that will underpin true agentic commerce protocols.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe brands that will be ready when agentic commerce finds its ChatGPT moment are the ones currently building the foundation. This is not because they are chasing a trend, but because conversational commerce is genuinely better for their customers today.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe think that Dynamic or Contextual UI has a big role to play in the future of both Agentic Commerce and AI Native Products and Services. Stay tuned for the next article, we will write more about this.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"clement-lacroix","authorName":"Clément Lacroix ","bio":"\u003cp\u003eClément is a Vice President at frog, part of Capgemini Invent, and is based in New York. He serves as the global lead for frog’s Experience Everywhere offer, an approach designed to craft, deliver, and transform iconic experiences for iconic brands. Clement has worked across various industries, including retail, hospitality, financial services, and automotive, and has managed teams of customer experience specialists, designers, and technologists creating lasting impact for multiple brands. He was previously based in France, where he notably led the launch of a mobile bank.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Vice President, frog New York","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":83062,"title":"Clement_Lacroix-author","filename":"Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","filesize":50250,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/clement-lacroix/attachment/clement_lacroix-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"clement_lacroix-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":47843,"date":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","modified":"2025-07-28 18:49:18","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":800,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author-768x768.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":800,"1536X1536Height":800,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Clement_Lacroix-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":800,"2048X2048Height":800}}},{"slug":"jessica-leitch","authorName":"Jess Leitch","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of frog North America, Jess is responsible for leading the frog business in North America. With a background in Service Design, Jess has spent the past 15 years leading teams in the design and launch of new products, services and businesses. Prior to frog, Jess was the Head of Service Design and Head of Studio at idean. Originally from Sydney, Australia, she lived in London for a number of years before moving to the US in 2019. In London, she received her Masters in Service Design.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Head of frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":36591,"title":"jessica-leitch","filename":"jessica-leitch.png","filesize":61348,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/attachment/jessica-leitch/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jessica-leitch","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":36590,"date":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","modified":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":500,"height":500,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-300x300.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","mediumLargeWidth":500,"mediumLargeHeight":500,"large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","largeWidth":500,"largeHeight":500,"1536X1536":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","1536X1536Width":500,"1536X1536Height":500,"2048X2048":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","2048X2048Width":500,"2048X2048Height":500}}}]},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true}],"ifRelated":{"image":{"id":87735,"title":"agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image","filename":"agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","filesize":226657,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment/attachment/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87240,"date":"2026-07-07 18:49:03","modified":"2026-07-07 18:49:03","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1200,"height":630,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image-300x158.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":158,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image-768x403.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":336,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image-1024x538.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":336,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","1536X1536Width":1200,"1536X1536Height":630,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment-share_image.jpg","2048X2048Width":1200,"2048X2048Height":630}},"imageOneByOne":false,"imageThreeByFour":false,"imageTwoByOne":false,"title":"Article","description":"Agentic Commerce Is Still Waiting For Its ChatGPT Moment","url":"/designmind/agentic-commerce-hasnt-had-its-chatgpt-moment"},"featuredArticles":{"eyebrow":"Related work","useHomeData":false,"articles":[{"title":"Rewriting the Playbook for Agentic AI","description":"Article","image":{"id":86610,"title":"WEFxAI_share_image","filename":"WEFxAI_share_image.png","filesize":539982,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai/attachment/wefxai_share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"wefxai_share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85595,"date":"2026-04-15 17:37:33","modified":"2026-04-15 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","external":false,"extraClassNames":""}}],"cta":{"text":"","url":"","external":false}}},"offeringTags":[646,316],"sectorTags":[45,46,52],"authorTags":[438,540]},{"id":87598,"slug":"the-atomic-marketing-organization","date":"2026-07-06T08:18:00","acf":{"designmind_building_blocks":[{"acf_fc_layout":"designmind_header_block","designmind_header":{"image":{"ID":87698,"id":87698,"title":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header","filename":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","filesize":14423289,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-atomic-marketing-organization/attachment/atomic-marketing-organization_header/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"atomic-marketing-organization_header","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87598,"date":"2026-07-03 18:37:46","modified":"2026-07-03 18:37:46","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-150x150.gif","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-300x115.gif","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-768x294.gif","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-1024x393.gif","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":552,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":552}},"video_file":false,"title":"The Atomic Marketing Organization","description":"How marketing executives can reclaim outcome leadership through a fundamental new operating model.","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eMarketing is living through two changes at once, and they are pulling against each other.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first is the rapid expansion of what the function can actually do. Generative and agentic AI have moved \u003ca href=\"https://www.weforum.org/publications/ai-agents-in-action-foundations-for-evaluation-and-governance/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003efrom internal pilots into production work\u003c/a\u003e in less than two years. Agentic AI in particular is rapidly \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003erewriting traditional playbooks\u003c/a\u003e. Content, audience modelling, optimization, and even the orchestration of full campaigns are now within reach of a small team at a speed that, a few quarters ago, would have been treated as an ambition rather than a reality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second is the relative stillness of the structure built to carry that capability. Most marketing organizations still run on a role-based, department-shaped chart designed for a world of scarce expertise, manual production and sequential handoffs. It is, in effect, the operating model of a different decade trying to absorb the physics of this one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis combination produces a function in growing tension with itself. The technology is ready to run, but the structure is not built to carry it. That tension also creates an opening. For the first time in two decades, there is a credible reason, and a viable way, to rebuild the marketing organization from first principles. The change is not cosmetic; it begins with the unit of marketing work itself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe shape now emerging across early adopters has a single name: \u003cstrong\u003eatomic\u003c/strong\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"Marketing has spent two decades scaling by adding layers. The next decade will scale by removing them.\"","author":"Tim van der Galiën, Director Marketing \u0026 CX, frog"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eWhy the old structure is breaking\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBefore describing the new model, it is worth being precise about why the existing one is failing. The cause is structural, not cultural. The marketing function has accumulated \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/insights/from-complexity-to-clarity-how-cmos-can-reclaim-marketing-to-build-competitive-edge\"\u003emore complexity than the role-based chart was ever built to hold\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe figures in Capgemini Research Institute\u0026#8217;s ‘\u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/insights/research-library/cmo-playbook-2025/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eCMO Playbook 2025\u003c/a\u003e’ describe the situation directly:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e64%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof CMOs say overcrowded MarTech is a key barrier to creating real customer experiences\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e30%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof organizations effectively use their internal data in marketing\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e42%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003esay their org structure leads to duplication of effort\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e40%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof marketer time is spent on reporting, not on building experiences\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTaken together, these numbers describe a function spending most of its energy operating itself. The system absorbs the attention that should be going into the work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAdding another channel lead, another platform or transformation program does not resolve this. The geometry of the org chart is the issue. With its sequential handoffs, briefs and approval queues, role-based marketing, was a thoughtful twentieth-century response to scarce expertise. In 2026, that scarcity is no more, and the same is true of execution. The scarce input is \u003cem\u003ejudgement\u003c/em\u003e: taste, brand instinct, and an informed view on what to do next.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe new organization needs to be built around the scarce input rather than the abundant one. This pattern is not unique to marketing. \u003ca href=\"https://news.microsoft.com/annual-work-trend-index-2026/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eMicrosoft\u0026#8217;s 2026 Work Trend Index\u003c/a\u003e, drawn from 20,000 workers and trillions of Microsoft 365 productivity signals, identifies a small group of organizations the report calls “Frontier Firms.” They are human-led and agent-operated firms now pulling ahead of the competition. The most striking finding for any leader thinking about structure is that organizational factors, including culture, manager support and how talent is developed, account for more than twice the AI impact of individual capability and mindset combined. The conclusion is direct: The constraint on most enterprises today is not the people but rather the operating model around them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe atomic marketing organization is the marketing function\u0026#8217;s version of that operating model. It is the structure built to convert agentic capability into compounding value, by design rather than by accident.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat \u0026#8220;atomic\u0026#8221; actually means\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe unit of marketing work is changing in shape. Where it was once a \u003cem\u003erole\u003c/em\u003e surrounded by upstream and downstream handoffs, it is rapidly becoming an \u003cem\u003eatom\u003c/em\u003e. An atom is one whole role with full ownership of an outcome, supported by a team of agents that carry out the execution work that used to require a traditional team behind it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAtoms do not sit inside fixed departments. They cluster into hubs: small, composable groups that form around a clear outcome and dissolve again when priorities move on.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"image_caption_block","image":{"ID":87716,"id":87716,"title":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03","filename":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","filesize":104676,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-atomic-marketing-organization/attachment/atomic-marketing-organization_diagram_updated_03/","alt":"","author":"16","description":"","caption":"","name":"atomic-marketing-organization_diagram_updated_03","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87598,"date":"2026-07-06 11:50:57","modified":"2026-07-06 11:50:57","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":550,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-300x115.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-768x293.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":244,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-1024x391.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":244,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":550,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":550}},"caption":"Organizing atomic marketers into connected hubs","image_alignment":"center"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eMost organizations piloting this model converge on a small set of named hubs.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"padding: 10px 0;\"\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCMO hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThis hub sets strategic direction, adds nuances to priorities, and then cascades these to other hubs. This is a continuous rather than a one off or intermittent action.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe CMO Hub has a downstream responsibility to other hubs (brand, outcome, frontier etc.), but it also has a peer-level responsibility to the organization’s other functions and capabilities.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBrand \u0026amp; Creative hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe purpose of this hub is to protect the outward-facing brand identity. It is responsible for setting guidelines on how to do this, how to create and generate content, how to express this identity, and how to train other hubs to use it (e.g., in approved brand assets). It also produces unprompted, unconventional ideas that fuel the organization.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOutcome hubs\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThis hub is typically organized around acquisition and retention, owning growth from end to end and carrying full authority over budget, experiments and performance.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFrontier hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe frontier hub exists to keep evolving how marketing is done as the technology underneath it continues to move.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eEach atom is a person carrying judgement, supported by an orchestrator agent responsible for the orchestration of the marketers\u0026#8217; responsibility and workflow. The execution lies with the marketers, their colleagues, and other agents. The hubs are designed to breathe, expanding and contracting around the priorities of the business rather than around legacy reporting lines.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eMarketers become Outcome Leaders\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eInside an atomic organization, the job of the marketer changes shape with the structure. The role is no longer defined by what the marketer produces. It is defined by the outcome the marketer owns. Outcome Leaders set the growth hypothesis, steer the agentic workforce toward the priorities they have chosen and intervene at the points where human judgement matters most. The craft has not disappeared; it has moved further up the workflow, into ideas, decisions and the design of the work itself. As a result, the marketer’s responsibility is no longer just a piece of the workflow; it has become intertwined end-to-end with it (from ideas, decisions, and design to judging, steering, and adapting), leading to an outcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Four characteristics that define the marketer as an Outcome Leader","description":"","numbered_sections":[{"title":"Own the outcome, end to end, from acquisition through retention","content":""},{"title":"Steer the workflow, taking responsibility for translating market signal into agent-led execution","content":""},{"title":"Evaluate performance against compute, treating the cost and quality of agentic work as a metric they actively manage","content":""},{"title":"Create the never-seen-before brand moments that no AI can originate on its own","content":"\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFour characteristics that define the marketer as an Outcome Leader. They own the outcome, end to end, from acquisition through retention. They steer the workflow, taking responsibility for translating market signal into agent-led execution. They evaluate performance against compute, treating the cost and quality of agentic work as a metric they actively manage. And they create the never-seen-before brand moments that no AI can originate on its own.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the role most marketers find genuinely energizing once they step into it. The work becomes less about production and more about authorship.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Six principles of the atomic model","description":"The atomic organization is best described as a set of design principles that shape the work, the roles and the structure together. Six of them define how the model behaves in practice.","numbered_sections":[{"title":"Every role becomes whole ","content":"\u003cp\u003eMarketing roles are designed as indivisible units of value. One person, one outcome, with the relay race between specialists collapsed into a single point of ownership.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Decision authority is visibly embedded ","content":"\u003cp\u003eEvery decision in the agentic model has a human owner already named inside the role. Responsibility is traceable through ownership, not enforced through additional approval checkpoints.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"The organization becomes composable ","content":"\u003cp\u003eOutcome hubs form, dissolve and re-form as priorities shift. The execution layer carries data, brand rules and workflows across every initiative, so consistency is preserved as the structure flexes.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"The model is in constant evolution ","content":"\u003cp\u003eNew capability arrives faster than any reorganization cycle can keep up with. Workflow designers become a core role, applying AI thoughtfully into the day-to-day work of marketers as the technology continues to move.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Scaling stops being a resource constraint ","content":"\u003cp\u003eWith agents carrying execution, adding a market or doubling output is no longer a headcount decision. More energy can be directed through the system to lift volume without lifting the budget line in proportion.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Human capacity becomes premium ","content":"\u003cp\u003eHuman time is no longer absorbed by the operation of the system. It is reserved for moments of authentic creativity and high-judgement decision making. Premium, protected, deliberate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThree of these principles, taken together, change how a CMO has to think about growth: scaling, decision authority and human capacity. Scaling becomes a question of system capacity rather than a question of hiring, because the execution layer absorbs the volume. For the organizations doing this seriously, that layer is an AI-native marketing system, and frog has a solution to that need. Decision authority becomes visible again, because each atom has a clearly named human at the center of it. And human capacity, released from production cycles, becomes the premium resource it was always intended to be —an input to protect rather than a cost to optimize first.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"The model is designed to the company that adopts it. It is always in motion, because the priorities of the business are. \"","author":"Steve Hewett, Global Leader, Customer Data \u0026 Technology, frog"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eWhat it costs to get there\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNo marketing organization redraws itself over a weekend. The atomic model is best understood as an evolution that runs parallel to the existing organization. Most adopters begin with a single outcome hub, which is set up next to the legacy structure, with a clear adoption target. When that hub meets its bar, a second one follows. The Brand \u0026amp; Creative and Frontier hubs come later, once there is enough running for them to plug into.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe harder work usually sits one level down from the structure itself. It is the redefinition of the role the structure forces upon the team. Outcome ownership replaces campaign management, full-stack craft replaces channel specialization and workflow design replaces process management. In most cases the people moving into the new shapes are the same people who were already in the function. The transformation work happens inside individual careers, and the org chart is the visible trace of it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere is also a governance question to answer before the model can scale safely. When agents carry execution, someone still has to carry the judgement around brand, claims and risk. The atomic model only works if every atom has a clearly defined human, ownership, autonomy, role, and judgement at its center. Without that, the organization has built a faster way to ship work it cannot defend.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhy the model works, and where to start\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe atomic organization is designed to fit the company that adopts it. The workflows and the team configuration are set against whatever the CMO has named as priority for the period. As those priorities shift, so does the model. It is built to be in evolution, not to be deployed once and set in stone.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt holds up across very different organizational shapes. It works inside a 30-person marketing function and inside a 300-person one. It works inside a Fortune 500 and inside a challenger brand. The structure flexes with the priorities of the business. The unit of work, the atom, stays the same.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGovernance and decision authority are implied in the roles and enabled through the execution layer. frog’s AI-native marketing solution unifies data, brand rules, and workflow guardrails across hubs, ensuring CMOs retain control as agentic capabilities scale. Human and AI accountability stays clear at every level, because the human owner of each judgement call is named inside the role rather than added on top through extra process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor CMOs and marketing leaders sitting with all of this, the place to start is not the org chart. It is a single outcome the function is going to own end to end in the next quarter, and the small group of people, with the right agentic support around them, who will own it together. One hub. One clear outcome. A defined adoption target that decides whether the function commits to a second hub after it. That is the lightest credible entry into the model, and the one that does the most to demonstrate what the rest of the organization could become.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe remainder of the journey is one of authorship. The new structure can be drawn deliberately, by the function itself, on its own terms and with the people already in it. Or it can be drawn later, by someone outside the function, on conditions the function will have to accept. Frontier Firms, in the Microsoft sense, are the ones already doing the first version of that work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eNext in this series\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRight now, it is vital that marketers reduce as much complexity as possible to facilitate the transition into an atomic marketing organization. The atomic model enables workflows and team structures to evolve alongside shifting priorities. But this is just the first step forward. Next, organizations will bridge data, workflows, content, analytics, and AI tools to create a single source of truth. We’ll get into the multivalent benefits of this in the next article in this \u003cstrong\u003eAI-Native Marketing\u003c/strong\u003e series.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStay tuned for a focus on the return of the single marketer workflow to learn how the marketing stack is collapsing into a single working environment.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":87600,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-06-30 16:53:16","post_date_gmt":"2026-06-30 16:53:16","post_content":"","post_title":"Tim van der Galiën","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"tim-van-der-galien","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-07-02 16:57:21","post_modified_gmt":"2026-07-02 16:57:21","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=87600","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Tim van der Galiën","bio":"\u003cp\u003eTim works with Marketing \u0026#038; Digital leaders to uncover growth opportunities and deliver exceptional innovations and experiences. He specializes in the marketing domain and can connect strategy to data, technology and AI—and does this by fusing art and science together. Tim leads the Customer Data \u0026#038; Technology team at frog, developing advanced capabilities in MarTech and AI-powered innovations that help clients make their mark. Above all, Tim believes in using innovation to bring more positivity and joy to how people experience the world around them. \u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Director Marketing \u0026 CX, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":87655,"id":87655,"title":"Tim-van-der-Galien-author","filename":"Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","filesize":290492,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/tim-van-der-galien/attachment/tim-van-der-galien-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"tim-van-der-galien-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87600,"date":"2026-07-01 18:17:47","modified":"2026-07-01 18:17:47","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":800,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author-768x768.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":640,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","1536x1536-width":800,"1536x1536-height":800,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Tim-van-der-Galien-author.jpg","2048x2048-width":800,"2048x2048-height":800}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/tim-van-der-galien/"},{"ID":87603,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-06-30 16:56:11","post_date_gmt":"2026-06-30 16:56:11","post_content":"","post_title":"Steve Hewett","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"steve-hewett","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-07-02 16:58:25","post_modified_gmt":"2026-07-02 16:58:25","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=87603","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Steve Hewett","bio":"\u003cp\u003eSteve is the Global Technology, Data \u0026#038; AI Leader at frog, part of Capgemini Invent. An expert in CX strategy and digital architecture, he guides organizations across diverse industries—from retail to defense—in building innovative, AI-native products, services \u0026#038; ways of working. Apply the latest breakthrough technologies like Gen AI and agentic AI, Steve helps clients in redefining customer experiences and enhancing the performance of their marketing, loyalty, commerce and frontline operations. \u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Global Leader, Customer Data \u0026 Technology, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":87605,"id":87605,"title":"author-steve-hewett","filename":"author-steve-hewett.jpg","filesize":169960,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/steve-hewett/attachment/author-steve-hewett/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"author-steve-hewett","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87603,"date":"2026-06-30 16:59:39","modified":"2026-06-30 16:59:39","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":600,"height":600,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","medium_large-width":600,"medium_large-height":600,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","large-width":600,"large-height":600,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","1536x1536-width":600,"1536x1536-height":600,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","2048x2048-width":600,"2048x2048-height":600}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/steve-hewett/"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true}],"if_related":{"image":{"ID":87684,"id":87684,"title":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_share-image","filename":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_share-image.jpg","filesize":179222,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_share-image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-atomic-marketing-organization/attachment/atomic-marketing-organization_share-image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"atomic-marketing-organization_share-image","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87598,"date":"2026-07-03 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18:37:46","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-150x150.gif","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-300x115.gif","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-768x294.gif","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header-1024x393.gif","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":552,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_header.gif","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":552}},"videoFile":false,"title":"The Atomic Marketing Organization","description":"How marketing executives can reclaim outcome leadership through a fundamental new operating model.","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eMarketing is living through two changes at once, and they are pulling against each other.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe first is the rapid expansion of what the function can actually do. Generative and agentic AI have moved \u003ca href=\"https://www.weforum.org/publications/ai-agents-in-action-foundations-for-evaluation-and-governance/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003efrom internal pilots into production work\u003c/a\u003e in less than two years. Agentic AI in particular is rapidly \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai\"\u003erewriting traditional playbooks\u003c/a\u003e. Content, audience modelling, optimization, and even the orchestration of full campaigns are now within reach of a small team at a speed that, a few quarters ago, would have been treated as an ambition rather than a reality.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second is the relative stillness of the structure built to carry that capability. Most marketing organizations still run on a role-based, department-shaped chart designed for a world of scarce expertise, manual production and sequential handoffs. It is, in effect, the operating model of a different decade trying to absorb the physics of this one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis combination produces a function in growing tension with itself. The technology is ready to run, but the structure is not built to carry it. That tension also creates an opening. For the first time in two decades, there is a credible reason, and a viable way, to rebuild the marketing organization from first principles. The change is not cosmetic; it begins with the unit of marketing work itself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe shape now emerging across early adopters has a single name: \u003cstrong\u003eatomic\u003c/strong\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"Marketing has spent two decades scaling by adding layers. The next decade will scale by removing them.\"","author":"Tim van der Galiën, Director Marketing \u0026 CX, frog"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eWhy the old structure is breaking\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBefore describing the new model, it is worth being precise about why the existing one is failing. The cause is structural, not cultural. The marketing function has accumulated \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/insights/from-complexity-to-clarity-how-cmos-can-reclaim-marketing-to-build-competitive-edge\"\u003emore complexity than the role-based chart was ever built to hold\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe figures in Capgemini Research Institute\u0026#8217;s ‘\u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/insights/research-library/cmo-playbook-2025/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eCMO Playbook 2025\u003c/a\u003e’ describe the situation directly:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e64%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof CMOs say overcrowded MarTech is a key barrier to creating real customer experiences\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e30%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof organizations effectively use their internal data in marketing\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e42%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003esay their org structure leads to duplication of effort\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003ch3 style=\"font-size: 27px;\"\u003e40%\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eof marketer time is spent on reporting, not on building experiences\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTaken together, these numbers describe a function spending most of its energy operating itself. The system absorbs the attention that should be going into the work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAdding another channel lead, another platform or transformation program does not resolve this. The geometry of the org chart is the issue. With its sequential handoffs, briefs and approval queues, role-based marketing, was a thoughtful twentieth-century response to scarce expertise. In 2026, that scarcity is no more, and the same is true of execution. The scarce input is \u003cem\u003ejudgement\u003c/em\u003e: taste, brand instinct, and an informed view on what to do next.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe new organization needs to be built around the scarce input rather than the abundant one. This pattern is not unique to marketing. \u003ca href=\"https://news.microsoft.com/annual-work-trend-index-2026/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eMicrosoft\u0026#8217;s 2026 Work Trend Index\u003c/a\u003e, drawn from 20,000 workers and trillions of Microsoft 365 productivity signals, identifies a small group of organizations the report calls “Frontier Firms.” They are human-led and agent-operated firms now pulling ahead of the competition. The most striking finding for any leader thinking about structure is that organizational factors, including culture, manager support and how talent is developed, account for more than twice the AI impact of individual capability and mindset combined. The conclusion is direct: The constraint on most enterprises today is not the people but rather the operating model around them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe atomic marketing organization is the marketing function\u0026#8217;s version of that operating model. It is the structure built to convert agentic capability into compounding value, by design rather than by accident.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhat \u0026#8220;atomic\u0026#8221; actually means\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe unit of marketing work is changing in shape. Where it was once a \u003cem\u003erole\u003c/em\u003e surrounded by upstream and downstream handoffs, it is rapidly becoming an \u003cem\u003eatom\u003c/em\u003e. An atom is one whole role with full ownership of an outcome, supported by a team of agents that carry out the execution work that used to require a traditional team behind it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAtoms do not sit inside fixed departments. They cluster into hubs: small, composable groups that form around a clear outcome and dissolve again when priorities move on.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"image_caption_block","image":{"id":87716,"title":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03","filename":"Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","filesize":104676,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-atomic-marketing-organization/attachment/atomic-marketing-organization_diagram_updated_03/","alt":"","author":"16","description":"","caption":"","name":"atomic-marketing-organization_diagram_updated_03","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87598,"date":"2026-07-06 11:50:57","modified":"2026-07-06 11:50:57","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":550,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-300x115.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-768x293.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":244,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03-1024x391.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":244,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":550,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Atomic-Marketing-Organization_Diagram_Updated_03.jpg","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":550}},"caption":"Organizing atomic marketers into connected hubs","imageAlignment":"center"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eMost organizations piloting this model converge on a small set of named hubs.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"padding: 10px 0;\"\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCMO hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThis hub sets strategic direction, adds nuances to priorities, and then cascades these to other hubs. This is a continuous rather than a one off or intermittent action.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe CMO Hub has a downstream responsibility to other hubs (brand, outcome, frontier etc.), but it also has a peer-level responsibility to the organization’s other functions and capabilities.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBrand \u0026amp; Creative hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe purpose of this hub is to protect the outward-facing brand identity. It is responsible for setting guidelines on how to do this, how to create and generate content, how to express this identity, and how to train other hubs to use it (e.g., in approved brand assets). It also produces unprompted, unconventional ideas that fuel the organization.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOutcome hubs\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThis hub is typically organized around acquisition and retention, owning growth from end to end and carrying full authority over budget, experiments and performance.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli style=\"padding-bottom: 10px;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFrontier hub\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nThe frontier hub exists to keep evolving how marketing is done as the technology underneath it continues to move.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eEach atom is a person carrying judgement, supported by an orchestrator agent responsible for the orchestration of the marketers\u0026#8217; responsibility and workflow. The execution lies with the marketers, their colleagues, and other agents. The hubs are designed to breathe, expanding and contracting around the priorities of the business rather than around legacy reporting lines.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eMarketers become Outcome Leaders\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eInside an atomic organization, the job of the marketer changes shape with the structure. The role is no longer defined by what the marketer produces. It is defined by the outcome the marketer owns. Outcome Leaders set the growth hypothesis, steer the agentic workforce toward the priorities they have chosen and intervene at the points where human judgement matters most. The craft has not disappeared; it has moved further up the workflow, into ideas, decisions and the design of the work itself. As a result, the marketer’s responsibility is no longer just a piece of the workflow; it has become intertwined end-to-end with it (from ideas, decisions, and design to judging, steering, and adapting), leading to an outcome.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Four characteristics that define the marketer as an Outcome Leader","description":"","numberedSections":[{"title":"Own the outcome, end to end, from acquisition through retention","content":""},{"title":"Steer the workflow, taking responsibility for translating market signal into agent-led execution","content":""},{"title":"Evaluate performance against compute, treating the cost and quality of agentic work as a metric they actively manage","content":""},{"title":"Create the never-seen-before brand moments that no AI can originate on its own","content":"\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFour characteristics that define the marketer as an Outcome Leader. They own the outcome, end to end, from acquisition through retention. They steer the workflow, taking responsibility for translating market signal into agent-led execution. They evaluate performance against compute, treating the cost and quality of agentic work as a metric they actively manage. And they create the never-seen-before brand moments that no AI can originate on its own.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the role most marketers find genuinely energizing once they step into it. The work becomes less about production and more about authorship.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acfFcLayout":"numbered_section_block","title":"Six principles of the atomic model","description":"The atomic organization is best described as a set of design principles that shape the work, the roles and the structure together. Six of them define how the model behaves in practice.","numberedSections":[{"title":"Every role becomes whole ","content":"\u003cp\u003eMarketing roles are designed as indivisible units of value. One person, one outcome, with the relay race between specialists collapsed into a single point of ownership.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Decision authority is visibly embedded ","content":"\u003cp\u003eEvery decision in the agentic model has a human owner already named inside the role. Responsibility is traceable through ownership, not enforced through additional approval checkpoints.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"The organization becomes composable ","content":"\u003cp\u003eOutcome hubs form, dissolve and re-form as priorities shift. The execution layer carries data, brand rules and workflows across every initiative, so consistency is preserved as the structure flexes.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"The model is in constant evolution ","content":"\u003cp\u003eNew capability arrives faster than any reorganization cycle can keep up with. Workflow designers become a core role, applying AI thoughtfully into the day-to-day work of marketers as the technology continues to move.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Scaling stops being a resource constraint ","content":"\u003cp\u003eWith agents carrying execution, adding a market or doubling output is no longer a headcount decision. More energy can be directed through the system to lift volume without lifting the budget line in proportion.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Human capacity becomes premium ","content":"\u003cp\u003eHuman time is no longer absorbed by the operation of the system. It is reserved for moments of authentic creativity and high-judgement decision making. Premium, protected, deliberate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThree of these principles, taken together, change how a CMO has to think about growth: scaling, decision authority and human capacity. Scaling becomes a question of system capacity rather than a question of hiring, because the execution layer absorbs the volume. For the organizations doing this seriously, that layer is an AI-native marketing system, and frog has a solution to that need. Decision authority becomes visible again, because each atom has a clearly named human at the center of it. And human capacity, released from production cycles, becomes the premium resource it was always intended to be —an input to protect rather than a cost to optimize first.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acfFcLayout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"The model is designed to the company that adopts it. It is always in motion, because the priorities of the business are. \"","author":"Steve Hewett, Global Leader, Customer Data \u0026 Technology, frog"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eWhat it costs to get there\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNo marketing organization redraws itself over a weekend. The atomic model is best understood as an evolution that runs parallel to the existing organization. Most adopters begin with a single outcome hub, which is set up next to the legacy structure, with a clear adoption target. When that hub meets its bar, a second one follows. The Brand \u0026amp; Creative and Frontier hubs come later, once there is enough running for them to plug into.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe harder work usually sits one level down from the structure itself. It is the redefinition of the role the structure forces upon the team. Outcome ownership replaces campaign management, full-stack craft replaces channel specialization and workflow design replaces process management. In most cases the people moving into the new shapes are the same people who were already in the function. The transformation work happens inside individual careers, and the org chart is the visible trace of it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere is also a governance question to answer before the model can scale safely. When agents carry execution, someone still has to carry the judgement around brand, claims and risk. The atomic model only works if every atom has a clearly defined human, ownership, autonomy, role, and judgement at its center. Without that, the organization has built a faster way to ship work it cannot defend.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhy the model works, and where to start\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe atomic organization is designed to fit the company that adopts it. The workflows and the team configuration are set against whatever the CMO has named as priority for the period. As those priorities shift, so does the model. It is built to be in evolution, not to be deployed once and set in stone.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt holds up across very different organizational shapes. It works inside a 30-person marketing function and inside a 300-person one. It works inside a Fortune 500 and inside a challenger brand. The structure flexes with the priorities of the business. The unit of work, the atom, stays the same.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGovernance and decision authority are implied in the roles and enabled through the execution layer. frog’s AI-native marketing solution unifies data, brand rules, and workflow guardrails across hubs, ensuring CMOs retain control as agentic capabilities scale. Human and AI accountability stays clear at every level, because the human owner of each judgement call is named inside the role rather than added on top through extra process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor CMOs and marketing leaders sitting with all of this, the place to start is not the org chart. It is a single outcome the function is going to own end to end in the next quarter, and the small group of people, with the right agentic support around them, who will own it together. One hub. One clear outcome. A defined adoption target that decides whether the function commits to a second hub after it. That is the lightest credible entry into the model, and the one that does the most to demonstrate what the rest of the organization could become.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe remainder of the journey is one of authorship. The new structure can be drawn deliberately, by the function itself, on its own terms and with the people already in it. Or it can be drawn later, by someone outside the function, on conditions the function will have to accept. Frontier Firms, in the Microsoft sense, are the ones already doing the first version of that work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr /\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eNext in this series\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRight now, it is vital that marketers reduce as much complexity as possible to facilitate the transition into an atomic marketing organization. The atomic model enables workflows and team structures to evolve alongside shifting priorities. But this is just the first step forward. Next, organizations will bridge data, workflows, content, analytics, and AI tools to create a single source of truth. We’ll get into the multivalent benefits of this in the next article in this \u003cstrong\u003eAI-Native Marketing\u003c/strong\u003e series.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStay tuned for a focus on the return of the single marketer workflow to learn how the marketing stack is collapsing into a single working environment.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"tim-van-der-galien","authorName":"Tim van der Galiën","bio":"\u003cp\u003eTim works with Marketing \u0026#038; Digital leaders to uncover growth opportunities and deliver exceptional innovations and experiences. He specializes in the marketing domain and can connect strategy to data, technology and AI—and does this by fusing art and science together. Tim leads the Customer Data \u0026#038; Technology team at frog, developing advanced capabilities in MarTech and AI-powered innovations that help clients make their mark. 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Apply the latest breakthrough technologies like Gen AI and agentic AI, Steve helps clients in redefining customer experiences and enhancing the performance of their marketing, loyalty, commerce and frontline operations. \u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Global Leader, Customer Data \u0026 Technology, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":87605,"title":"author-steve-hewett","filename":"author-steve-hewett.jpg","filesize":169960,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/author-steve-hewett.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/steve-hewett/attachment/author-steve-hewett/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"author-steve-hewett","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87603,"date":"2026-06-30 16:59:39","modified":"2026-06-30 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18:59:12","modified":"2026-06-02 18:59:12","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/Ep60_Co-evolving_with_Physical_AI_John_Robins_Header_Homepage-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/Ep60_Co-evolving_with_Physical_AI_John_Robins_Header_Homepage-300x115.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/Ep60_Co-evolving_with_Physical_AI_John_Robins_Header_Homepage-768x294.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/Ep60_Co-evolving_with_Physical_AI_John_Robins_Header_Homepage-1024x393.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/Ep60_Co-evolving_with_Physical_AI_John_Robins_Header_Homepage.jpg","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":552,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/Ep60_Co-evolving_with_Physical_AI_John_Robins_Header_Homepage.jpg","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":552}},"video_file":false,"title":"Design Mind frogcast Ep.60 – Co-evolving with Physical AI","description":"Our Guest: John Robins, Head of Physical AI, frog","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e, we’re exploring what happens when AI moves from the screen into the physical world. To take this leap, we’re joined by John Robins, Head of Physical AI at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJohn defines physical AI as intelligence that understands the physics of our world. Together, we journey through how real-world experiences could be set to evolve as AI gains the ability to move through space, share our environments and take actions alongside us.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAre we about to see physical AI at scale? And if so, where will we see early adoption? How can we navigate decisions around what to and what not to automate? How can we ensure we don’t lose touch with human aspects, such as emotion and ritual?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode and watch the full video below. You can also find the\u003cstrong\u003e Design Mind frogcas\u003c/strong\u003et on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAre you ready to uncover the future of human experiences? Download frog’s latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003eFuturescape report ‘Artificial Realities.’\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDiscover recent frog physical AI work: \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/designing-robots-for-human-spaces-with-physical-ai\"\u003eDesigning Robots for Human Spaces\u003c/a\u003e. And check out Fast Company articles on the project \u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91464905/writing-the-dna-of-robotics\"\u003ehere\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91377715/computers-were-designed-for-humans-robots-should-be-too\"\u003ehere\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://player.simplecast.com/180e49e7-d88c-4bfb-bc88-b38f3c9b3480?dark=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"200px\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 60:\u003c/strong\u003e Co-evolving with Physical AI\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuest:\u003c/strong\u003e John Robins, Head of Physical AI, frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:00] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we’re exploring what it really means when AI moves off the screen and into the physical world. To do this, we’re joined by John Robins, Head of Physical AI at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor John, physical AI isn’t just about systems, sensors or autonomy. It starts with how we experience the world—what we notice, what we’re drawn to and how we share meaningful moments. It’s also about the changes that happen when AI can move through space, share our environments and take action alongside us.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere’s John now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:50] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e At a personal level, I\u0026#8217;m actually enamored by beauty. I live in Marin. My apartment faces Mount Tam and Corte Madera Creek. And so I\u0026#8217;m just like drawn by beauty all around us. I enjoy exploring new countries, you know, just experiencing new cultures and new cuisines. I\u0026#8217;m based in San Francisco. I see beauty when I go to a ballet or a musical. And as I was thinking about it, I realized that every time I\u0026#8217;m experiencing a beautiful moment, my first instinct is to pull out my phone and capture that moment. I want it to last as long as possible. So this whole idea of creating products and experiences that bring delight and bring joy and create memories for people, of course, leveraging technology is more than a job for me.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHi, I\u0026#8217;m John Robins. I\u0026#8217;m heading Physical AI for frog. I have an engineering and business background. I was involved in the creation and launch of one of the world\u0026#8217;s first 3D map products, which is basically a digital representation of the world in one in one way, representation of physical AI.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI remember very fondly, at the time, my company president handed me a copy of Don Norman\u0026#8217;s Design of Everyday Things, and he was very particular about identifying user needs. And one of the formative experiences I had was taking a paper map (these are the days when we still used paper maps) and sitting down with end users and trying to understand what did they want to see in a digital map. So early on, I had my thinking was shaped around human-centered thinking and thinking about how does technology, not just how does it work, but also how is it used for human beings, and how does it make our lives more meaningful?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFast forward, many years later, a few years ago, I took a course in AI because of my background in navigation and the advances in autonomous vehicles. That is when I first started getting fascinated by the idea of AI for the physical world. Following that, I have worked in connected technologies, sensor technology and IoT as well for industrial and consumer applications. So throughout my life, I have worked in technologies at the intersection of the physical and digital, and I find that very fascinating, because, as you know, humans are analog, but we seamlessly navigate between the physical and digital world through technology, and so to be able to enable that is a fascinating part of my work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:08] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Physical AI is showing up in more conversations. But as an emerging field, it’s often approached with assumptions and, sometimes, misunderstandings. Here John shares what physical AI actually is and why the correct definition matters.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:21] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e When I think of physical AI, I think of intelligence that understands the physics of the world. It understands force, causality, consequences, we all are familiar with large language models. You know, LLM-based models process text or information. If I type ‘pour me a glass of red wine’ it\u0026#8217;s basically a string of words, right? But physical AI understands the weight of the glass, its contents, the friction that is needed to move it safely, so it translates my text into action. Basically, physical AI sees the world through sensors, understands context, reasons about what is happening and then translates that into action.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePhysical AI is very multidisciplinary. Is one of those few fields where you need software engineers, hardware engineers, designers, strategists, and it spans the entire innovation funnel, all the way from opportunity definition, ROI framing, through product definition, early concepting to downselecting those concepts and prototyping it to validate whether it works and is the kind of product that we want to build, and then finally building it and scaling it for impact and scale. So yeah, our teams are involved in every stage, and in my role, I\u0026#8217;m really fortunate to be able to get, like, a front row seat talking to clients who are ambitious, who want to impact the life of their consumers and users as well as create new business value. So understanding what their aspirations and ambitions are, and translating that into technical requirements and design requirements and bringing it to reality is kind of what is part of my role.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:54] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e This is where AI stops being something we look at and starts becoming something we live with. For John, a lot changes when AI leaves the screen and begins to operate in the physical world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:05:04] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e It means understanding that there are constraints like gravity, and as I mentioned, for things like friction and distance, time, human unpredictability. It also means understanding affordances. Now I\u0026#8217;m using a design language here, but what objects allow, what space is constrained, and what do humans expect? The difference between, as I explained earlier, AI that knows what a door is, versus physical AI is knowing how to open the door so it translates intent and text into action. It really is like making sense of the 3D world, perceiving it, reasoning about it and then taking autonomous action.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensors is a very broad term for multimodal perception. So it can be voice, it can be recognizing voice or gesture or biomarkers like temperature and all of those things. So it\u0026#8217;s multimodal and, you know, computer vision camera-based systems as well, they also fall under the definition of sensors. It\u0026#8217;s not just about seeing something, but deriving meaning from it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePhysical AI, of course, includes robotics. It\u0026#8217;s one of the major applications of physical AI. But it\u0026#8217;s not limited to hardware. There are many digital applications of physical AI as well. I think the key idea is that the substrate can be digital or virtual, but the logic has to be physical, as I mentioned, understanding the physics or the laws of the world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI can give an example to explain a virtual application or digital application. Nvidia came out with this system called Nvidia Earth-2, which is a digital twin of the planet for simulating climate. So it internalizes the physics of the atmosphere, pressure, heat transfer, fluid dynamics, and it can simulate a typhoon at like two kilometer resolution in seconds. So there is no physical product here, no robot involved, but it\u0026#8217;s pure physics, grounded intelligence in a digital world. I mentioned about Fei-Fei Li. She\u0026#8217;s one of the pioneers in the space. She says that LLMs understand the language of humans, physical AI must understand the language of nature. I think she puts it really well. So there are many other applications. You can think of, you know, game designers and filmmakers who can now conjure entire worlds, scenes and perspectives, which is less time-consuming and less expensive compared to like the traditional production pipeline. Think about in every manufactured object or constructed space, they\u0026#8217;re usually designed, again in virtual 3D before its physical creation, but with spatially intelligent models, we can now quickly visualize structures and walk through spaces and understand how we might want to live and work and gather. But again, the core is those physics informed intelligence layer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:38] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e What’s taking shape is an intelligence that goes past prediction and perception. It’s AI that understands how the world behaves and why humans move within it the way they do. Here John shares some of the potential use cases for physical AI.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:50] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it\u0026#8217;s a combination of different factors. I think the immediate opportunity is definitely in robotics, is embedding intelligence into physical products that can do things that were not possible in the past. I think the hero moment is going to be when physical AI intersects with human needs. Think about an aging population, maybe a robotic dog that can alleviate loneliness. Or think about a drone system that can, you know, ship supplies to remote areas. Those are all applications where physical AI can make a huge difference. Is there going to be one main application? I don\u0026#8217;t know the answer to that yet.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI think it\u0026#8217;s about understanding context. Just to give an example, if I were to ask you, what time is it? You might say 12:30 and that\u0026#8217;s a correct answer, or you might say it\u0026#8217;s time for lunch. So the nuance is understanding the context. You know, it\u0026#8217;s not just a string of words. You\u0026#8217;re able to translate my question into the intent that I have embedded in my question. Our sister company, Synapse built a contextually aware robot many years ago, which kind of solidifies the point that I want to make. Imagine an Alexa system that we have used in the past. If you were to ask it, turn that light off, Alexa doesn\u0026#8217;t know which light to turn off. It just understands your words and your language, but doesn\u0026#8217;t understand context. So Synapse built this contextually aware robot, Gerard. If you were to look in a particular direction or point in a particular direction and say ‘turn that light off,’ the robot then senses, it understands gaze and gesture and can translate that into intent and take the right action of turning the right light off. So that\u0026#8217;s what we mean by understanding human intent. It requires multimodal sensing of voice, gesture, gaze, movement and sometimes even emotional state. Imagine if a human stops suddenly. Is it because of fear, or did they drop something? The system has to be able to understand those kinds of nuances, and we\u0026#8217;re not there yet, but there\u0026#8217;s a lot of advances that are happening in that space.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:09:44] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e As autonomous systems leave controlled environments, they start to meet us where we are. And that changes the design challenge entirely. Here John shares why the human must always be at the center of physical AI innovation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:09:57] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I think increasingly we will see autonomous systems sharing human spaces. And so we have to ask ourselves, you know, how do we want technology to show up in our space and share our space? What form it takes, what expression it takes, is really very nuanced. My colleague Inna Lobel can speak more about this, but imagine if you\u0026#8217;re making a coffee making machine, a robot that can just dispense coffee. Making coffee for us is a ritual. It\u0026#8217;s more than just an activity. There\u0026#8217;s emotion involved in it. There is a routine involved in it. Maybe you drink coffee with someone special in your life. So considering all those contextual factors of emotion and context and social cues is very important thinking about the form and the expression of the system that you design.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRobotics itself is not new. It has been around for many decades, but there have been advances in technology as well as shifts in how people think about technology which is accelerating the advance of physical AI. Thinking about it first from the perspective of AI, robotics in the past was mostly confined behind fences in constrained environments, and they were scripted to do like a specific task, like a pick and place robot, repetitive task that it keeps doing again and again. But today, foundation models are allowing robots to learn from data, to learn from experience. So instead of programming it to do something almost like human beings, they\u0026#8217;re learning from our experiences, which we show them through different kinds of training models, but also through their own experiences of doing something and then learning from it. And that means that today, robots are more adaptive. They\u0026#8217;re not just doing one set task. They can adapt to new situations that they have not seen before. So that\u0026#8217;s like a big change when you think about it from the AI perspective. The other angle is advances in hardware, and costs of hardware, especially sensors and compute, have dropped significantly. What that means is that physical AI is becoming more accessible. Maybe what cost, let\u0026#8217;s say, $100,000 to build in the past, maybe cost a fraction of that today. And so in addition to being confined to, you know, high end industrial applications or automotive applications, physical AI will start entering service-centric contracts or consumer spaces as well. So that\u0026#8217;s the second piece, and the third piece is socioeconomic factors as well. When we think about the evolving consumer needs, this push for greater personalization, faster delivery, is really what is accelerating physical AI in industrial settings, but meanwhile, aging populations are driving use cases in elder care and structural labor gaps in retail are accelerating food automation robots as well. So it\u0026#8217;s this combination of technological advances in AI, drops in cost of hardware and socioeconomic factors that\u0026#8217;s driving physical AI.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:50] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e We’re going to take a short break. When we return, John will discuss the human choices at the center of physical AI—what we hand over to machines, what we hold onto, and how those decisions shape the world we’re building together.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"ID":86210,"id":86210,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","filesize":77251,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":85084,"date":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","modified":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-300x287.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":287,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-768x735.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-1024x980.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":613,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","1536x1536-width":1268,"1536x1536-height":1214,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","2048x2048-width":1268,"2048x2048-height":1214}},"description":"For more on how AI is bending the limits of our physical and digital worlds, download our latest frog report ‘Futurescape: Artificial Realities.’  ","report_link":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry","type":"internal"}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:13:32] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Now back to John Robins, Head of Physical AI at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:13:35] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e So I think the technology is not in its R\u0026amp;D stage. It\u0026#8217;s certainly like in early stages of deployment, maybe not fully ready to scale, because of that, I think we will see earliest adoption of physical AI in industrial settings. What I mean by that is that industrial settings are kind of semi-structured. The workflows are standardized. The space is more predictable and the stakes are low as well. If something fails, it is not catastrophic. Versus, let\u0026#8217;s say, if you think about like a home setting, it\u0026#8217;s a little bit, or maybe not a little bit, it\u0026#8217;s the most unstructured environment, unpredictable space. You have wires hanging around, you have kids running around, and so building robotics for home spaces is going to be tricky. Or think about health care, I think that\u0026#8217;s going to be one of the biggest spaces for adoption of physical AI, but it’s a highly regulated industry, you can\u0026#8217;t have a system that hallucinates or makes an error. And so, both from a technology standpoint, as well as from a business standpoint, I think the earliest adoption is going to be in the back of the house automation. As I mentioned earlier, there are systemic structural gaps in labor force, and so there\u0026#8217;s a clear ROI in the industrial space. And as technology matures, as people\u0026#8217;s trust in autonomous systems increases as well, we will see adoption of physical AI in more consumer-facing spaces as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAll these physical systems are also data collection engines. If you think about whether it\u0026#8217;s just a sensor in a equipment, industrial equipment, or whether it\u0026#8217;s a robot, it\u0026#8217;s actually collecting data about the real world interaction with human beings, automating different activities and tasks. And so it is both an opportunity and also a reason for caution as well. I think the opportunity is in integrating this new layer of data with existing digital data as well, systems like an ERP or a WMS system. If you think about integrating data coming from different streams, then you\u0026#8217;re able to create new categories of new meaning and new categories of products, new revenue generation opportunities. And so I think data is going to be a key, and data will be a differentiator and potentially a moat for the company as well, because this is your own proprietary data. It\u0026#8217;s not just internet scale data. This is specific to the enterprise or the application or the context in which you\u0026#8217;re deploying the system. So data is going to be a key differentiator.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen I talk to clients, one of the things that I want to address is thinking about, what kind of activity do you want to automate as this autonomous system starts sharing human spaces, what should remain deeply human, and what is it that you want to offload to a machine? And number two is also calculating or understanding the business value of automating a task. I was recently talking to a client. Their business goal was to double the output without increasing the number of employees. And, you know, to build a system like that, the upfront CapEx was really high, so it didn\u0026#8217;t really make business sense for them just to create one robot for one retail space. So I think we had to ask ourselves, like, what activities are automatable, and is there business value? Like mapping it against those two axes will give us the answer of, what are the things that we want to really automate?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe tasks that are automatable are the ones that are usually repetitive and where the stakes are low, meaning that if something goes wrong, it\u0026#8217;s not catastrophic. The upside of automating a task is high because you\u0026#8217;re automating a repetitive task and taking away that mundane task away from a human being, and if for some reason, something fails, the downside is very low. So that, for me, is like the criteria of deciding what to automate and what not to automate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:09] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Sharing physical space with AI is only the beginning. The deeper shift comes when machines start to share our tasks and our time. During our conversation, John shared his perspective on turning from the functional aspects of technology to its real values.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:25] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the other important consideration would also be, what is it that humans want to hold, and what is it that they want to fold? What are the things that humans like to continue doing, and what are the things that they don\u0026#8217;t want to do? Maybe it\u0026#8217;s dangerous, maybe it\u0026#8217;s dull and not as meaningful for them. So again, thinking about machines as autonomous systems that will share, not just human spaces, but human tasks and share decision making. We are to consider what are those things that will keep humans at the center of innovation and make life more richer for them than feeling like they\u0026#8217;ve been replaced?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen you think about systems today, they have human-like characteristics, which means they have the intelligence to ingest information, reason about it and take action. They have that agency to decide for themselves without needing a human intervention. The human is not programming and telling it what to do. It\u0026#8217;s learning from what humans have taught it, but then it can adapt itself to new situations. This is a big shift, because if you think about it, humans have always directed the work of other non-human entities, right? But now machines are becoming intelligent like humans. They can see, they can talk in natural language, they can perceive, break a problem into multiple steps and then take actions. And this is both exciting, but also demands real caution. In a digital system, you know, if a system hallucinates, you know, we all have had experiences where you ask a question and it makes up something and makes it sound like it\u0026#8217;s real. But you know, you can use human judgment to understand that there is an error and you can correct it. But in the physical world, if the system hallucinates, so for example, if you ask it to pick a pipe and it pulls a live wire instead, it can be catastrophic. It can harm people, or it can cause damage to property. And so as systems become more and more autonomous, and machines are able to learn a range of new behaviors, it really becomes harder to predict and constrain their behavior. And so building systems with guardrails, the operational limits, and having human in the loop as much as needed is, I believe, the right direction. So physical AI has to be predictable. It has to have legible behavior, where humans are able to understand what the system is doing, and why is it doing that, and whether it is whether they can override it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:38] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e As the field matures, the question is no longer just can we build it. It’s how—and why—we choose to. Because, ultimately, these systems will shape the world we live in. When it comes to business strategy, John shared why certain principles must apply to designing, building and scaling physical AI.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:54] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I live in Silicon Valley, where the guiding principle is, you know, move fast and break things. I believe that when it comes to physical AI, we have to design with purpose and engineer responsibly. I believe that we are not just creating products. We are creating a new world, a new reality, in which we are sharing our lives, our spaces, our tasks, our decisions, with autonomous systems. And so we have to carefully think about the unintended consequences, and also, what kind of world do we want to create for ourselves and our future generations? The opportunity is real, but I don\u0026#8217;t think that the answer is robots everywhere. You have to apply robotics and physical AI where they intersect with human needs. And as I mentioned earlier, that could mean a robotic dog that helps reduce loneliness for an aging parent. It could mean robot-assisted disaster evacuation, or, you know, drone delivery of critical supplies. Regardless of what that use case is, and we have to identify where the pain points are, and you know where it makes sense to have robotic systems take on some of these tasks, but the core principle is to design with purpose and engineer responsibly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI would add that when you think about great physical experience, I would say that technology should never be in our face. It should be invisible. It\u0026#8217;s a system that fades into the background and quietly makes life easier for us. We see robots flipping, and sometimes you want to ask, is it cool or is it really creepy? We don\u0026#8217;t know. So I believe that you know, great physical experiences are the ones that make humans feel respected, empowered, augmented and are taking on the tasks and things that humans don\u0026#8217;t want to do or should not do, instead of managing them or replacing them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:31] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Amidst all this complexity, John shares how something simple always comes back into view. Humans are social. We attach meaning. And any intelligence that shares our space will eventually share our emotional landscape too.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:44] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I think, you know, human beings are social by nature. We like to bond. We like to connect. Even when you think of, you know, something like ChatGPT or Claude, any LLM based system, humans are forming a kind of relationship with it, a parasocial relationship, so to speak. So when you think about physical AI robotic systems, these are systems that will occupy our space, so we will, over time, maybe form some kind of connection with these systems. So having systems that share our space and take on our tasks while being relatable, and systems that you feel comfortable around and systems that create delight for you, is where the magic lies.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI believe that physical AI needs both designers and engineers. Designers imagine what could be without any constraints, new futures, experiences, systems that could advance human life. I believe engineers bring that to life, bring that to reality. Working with the constraints of what technology can do. I often like to think of them as, you know, the left and right side of our brain. The analytical and the experiential side of humanity that kind of, when, when it comes together, becomes one cohesive unit. I do think that there\u0026#8217;s a lot that we can learn from each other. I believe that engineers have to understand and develop fluency in what I would call soft metrics, understanding, delight, trust, meaningful experiences, memorable experiences. And I feel that designers have to respect hard metrics, latency, reliability, safety margins, mean time between failures. So I think we need a shared language between both designers and engineers, because design decisions become system behavior, and system behavior drives human experiences. And so it\u0026#8217;s, you know, when we bring those two sides together, of imagining what could be and bringing it to reality, that\u0026#8217;s when magic happens.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:35] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eCheck today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry#download\"\u003efrog’s Futurescape report\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our guest, John Robins, Head of Physical AI at frog for sharing his insights.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"ID":87033,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-05-15 19:26:22","post_date_gmt":"2026-05-15 19:26:22","post_content":"","post_title":"John Robins","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"john-robins","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-05-15 19:28:57","post_modified_gmt":"2026-05-15 19:28:57","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=87033","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"John Robins","bio":"\u003cp\u003eJohn focuses on building connected ecosystems where intelligent systems and humans work seamlessly together. With 18+ years in product strategy and innovation, he partners with innovative companies and senior leaders to shape new futures using AI, robotics, computer vision, smart sensing, and geospatial technologies.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHe previously led product management at a major technology company and ran an industrial IoT startup. John holds an MBA from DeMontfort University, is pursuing an MS in Computer Science (AI) at Georgia Tech and frequently speaks on Physical AI. He is also a Gartner Product Management Ambassador.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOutside of work, John loves to explore new countries, hit the padel court, and catch live theatre.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Head of Physical AI","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":87035,"id":87035,"title":"John-Robins-author","filename":"John-Robins-author.jpg","filesize":119679,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/john-robins/attachment/john-robins-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"john-robins-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":87033,"date":"2026-05-15 19:28:39","modified":"2026-05-15 19:28:39","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1000,"height":1000,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author-768x768.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":640,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author.jpg","1536x1536-width":1000,"1536x1536-height":1000,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author.jpg","2048x2048-width":1000,"2048x2048-height":1000}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/john-robins/"},{"ID":16815,"post_author":"16","post_date":"2020-11-20 23:18:33","post_date_gmt":"2020-11-20 23:18:33","post_content":"","post_title":"Elizabeth Wood","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"elizabeth-wood","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2023-08-20 08:53:37","post_modified_gmt":"2023-08-20 08:53:37","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=16815","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Elizabeth Wood","bio":"\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eElizabeth tells design stories for frog. She first joined the New York studio in 2011, working on multidisciplinary teams to design award-winning products and services. Today, Elizabeth works out of the London studio on the global frog marketing team, leading editorial content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eShe has written and edited hundreds of articles about design and technology, and has given talks on the role of content in a weird, digital world. Her work has been published in \u003ci\u003eThe Content Strategist\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eUNDO-Ordinary\u003c/i\u003e magazine and the book \u003ci\u003eAlone Together: Tales of Sisterhood and Solitude in Latin America\u003c/i\u003e (Bogotá International Press).\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003ePreviously, Elizabeth was Communications Manager for UN OCHA’s Centre for Humanitarian Data in The Hague. She is a graduate of the Master’s Programme for Creative Writing at Birkbeck College, University of London.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Host, Design Mind frogcast \u0026 Editorial Director, frog Global Marketing","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":21629,"id":21629,"title":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2","filename":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","filesize":61336,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/12203718/Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/elizabeth-wood/attachment/elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2/","alt":"","author":"22","description":"","caption":"","name":"elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":16815,"date":"2021-03-12 20:37:18","modified":"2021-03-12 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Mind frogcast Ep.60 – Co-evolving with Physical AI","description":"Our Guest: John Robins, Head of Physical AI, frog","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e, we’re exploring what happens when AI moves from the screen into the physical world. To take this leap, we’re joined by John Robins, Head of Physical AI at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJohn defines physical AI as intelligence that understands the physics of our world. Together, we journey through how real-world experiences could be set to evolve as AI gains the ability to move through space, share our environments and take actions alongside us.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAre we about to see physical AI at scale? And if so, where will we see early adoption? How can we navigate decisions around what to and what not to automate? How can we ensure we don’t lose touch with human aspects, such as emotion and ritual?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode and watch the full video below. You can also find the\u003cstrong\u003e Design Mind frogcas\u003c/strong\u003et on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAre you ready to uncover the future of human experiences? Download frog’s latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003eFuturescape report ‘Artificial Realities.’\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDiscover recent frog physical AI work: \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/designing-robots-for-human-spaces-with-physical-ai\"\u003eDesigning Robots for Human Spaces\u003c/a\u003e. And check out Fast Company articles on the project \u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91464905/writing-the-dna-of-robotics\"\u003ehere\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91377715/computers-were-designed-for-humans-robots-should-be-too\"\u003ehere\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://player.simplecast.com/180e49e7-d88c-4bfb-bc88-b38f3c9b3480?dark=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"200px\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 60:\u003c/strong\u003e Co-evolving with Physical AI\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuest:\u003c/strong\u003e John Robins, Head of Physical AI, frog\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:00] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we’re exploring what it really means when AI moves off the screen and into the physical world. To do this, we’re joined by John Robins, Head of Physical AI at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor John, physical AI isn’t just about systems, sensors or autonomy. It starts with how we experience the world—what we notice, what we’re drawn to and how we share meaningful moments. It’s also about the changes that happen when AI can move through space, share our environments and take action alongside us.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere’s John now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:50] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e At a personal level, I\u0026#8217;m actually enamored by beauty. I live in Marin. My apartment faces Mount Tam and Corte Madera Creek. And so I\u0026#8217;m just like drawn by beauty all around us. I enjoy exploring new countries, you know, just experiencing new cultures and new cuisines. I\u0026#8217;m based in San Francisco. I see beauty when I go to a ballet or a musical. And as I was thinking about it, I realized that every time I\u0026#8217;m experiencing a beautiful moment, my first instinct is to pull out my phone and capture that moment. I want it to last as long as possible. So this whole idea of creating products and experiences that bring delight and bring joy and create memories for people, of course, leveraging technology is more than a job for me.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHi, I\u0026#8217;m John Robins. I\u0026#8217;m heading Physical AI for frog. I have an engineering and business background. I was involved in the creation and launch of one of the world\u0026#8217;s first 3D map products, which is basically a digital representation of the world in one in one way, representation of physical AI.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI remember very fondly, at the time, my company president handed me a copy of Don Norman\u0026#8217;s Design of Everyday Things, and he was very particular about identifying user needs. And one of the formative experiences I had was taking a paper map (these are the days when we still used paper maps) and sitting down with end users and trying to understand what did they want to see in a digital map. So early on, I had my thinking was shaped around human-centered thinking and thinking about how does technology, not just how does it work, but also how is it used for human beings, and how does it make our lives more meaningful?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFast forward, many years later, a few years ago, I took a course in AI because of my background in navigation and the advances in autonomous vehicles. That is when I first started getting fascinated by the idea of AI for the physical world. Following that, I have worked in connected technologies, sensor technology and IoT as well for industrial and consumer applications. So throughout my life, I have worked in technologies at the intersection of the physical and digital, and I find that very fascinating, because, as you know, humans are analog, but we seamlessly navigate between the physical and digital world through technology, and so to be able to enable that is a fascinating part of my work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:08] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Physical AI is showing up in more conversations. But as an emerging field, it’s often approached with assumptions and, sometimes, misunderstandings. Here John shares what physical AI actually is and why the correct definition matters.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:21] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e When I think of physical AI, I think of intelligence that understands the physics of the world. It understands force, causality, consequences, we all are familiar with large language models. You know, LLM-based models process text or information. If I type ‘pour me a glass of red wine’ it\u0026#8217;s basically a string of words, right? But physical AI understands the weight of the glass, its contents, the friction that is needed to move it safely, so it translates my text into action. Basically, physical AI sees the world through sensors, understands context, reasons about what is happening and then translates that into action.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePhysical AI is very multidisciplinary. Is one of those few fields where you need software engineers, hardware engineers, designers, strategists, and it spans the entire innovation funnel, all the way from opportunity definition, ROI framing, through product definition, early concepting to downselecting those concepts and prototyping it to validate whether it works and is the kind of product that we want to build, and then finally building it and scaling it for impact and scale. So yeah, our teams are involved in every stage, and in my role, I\u0026#8217;m really fortunate to be able to get, like, a front row seat talking to clients who are ambitious, who want to impact the life of their consumers and users as well as create new business value. So understanding what their aspirations and ambitions are, and translating that into technical requirements and design requirements and bringing it to reality is kind of what is part of my role.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:54] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e This is where AI stops being something we look at and starts becoming something we live with. For John, a lot changes when AI leaves the screen and begins to operate in the physical world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:05:04] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e It means understanding that there are constraints like gravity, and as I mentioned, for things like friction and distance, time, human unpredictability. It also means understanding affordances. Now I\u0026#8217;m using a design language here, but what objects allow, what space is constrained, and what do humans expect? The difference between, as I explained earlier, AI that knows what a door is, versus physical AI is knowing how to open the door so it translates intent and text into action. It really is like making sense of the 3D world, perceiving it, reasoning about it and then taking autonomous action.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSensors is a very broad term for multimodal perception. So it can be voice, it can be recognizing voice or gesture or biomarkers like temperature and all of those things. So it\u0026#8217;s multimodal and, you know, computer vision camera-based systems as well, they also fall under the definition of sensors. It\u0026#8217;s not just about seeing something, but deriving meaning from it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePhysical AI, of course, includes robotics. It\u0026#8217;s one of the major applications of physical AI. But it\u0026#8217;s not limited to hardware. There are many digital applications of physical AI as well. I think the key idea is that the substrate can be digital or virtual, but the logic has to be physical, as I mentioned, understanding the physics or the laws of the world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI can give an example to explain a virtual application or digital application. Nvidia came out with this system called Nvidia Earth-2, which is a digital twin of the planet for simulating climate. So it internalizes the physics of the atmosphere, pressure, heat transfer, fluid dynamics, and it can simulate a typhoon at like two kilometer resolution in seconds. So there is no physical product here, no robot involved, but it\u0026#8217;s pure physics, grounded intelligence in a digital world. I mentioned about Fei-Fei Li. She\u0026#8217;s one of the pioneers in the space. She says that LLMs understand the language of humans, physical AI must understand the language of nature. I think she puts it really well. So there are many other applications. You can think of, you know, game designers and filmmakers who can now conjure entire worlds, scenes and perspectives, which is less time-consuming and less expensive compared to like the traditional production pipeline. Think about in every manufactured object or constructed space, they\u0026#8217;re usually designed, again in virtual 3D before its physical creation, but with spatially intelligent models, we can now quickly visualize structures and walk through spaces and understand how we might want to live and work and gather. But again, the core is those physics informed intelligence layer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:38] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e What’s taking shape is an intelligence that goes past prediction and perception. It’s AI that understands how the world behaves and why humans move within it the way they do. Here John shares some of the potential use cases for physical AI.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:50] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it\u0026#8217;s a combination of different factors. I think the immediate opportunity is definitely in robotics, is embedding intelligence into physical products that can do things that were not possible in the past. I think the hero moment is going to be when physical AI intersects with human needs. Think about an aging population, maybe a robotic dog that can alleviate loneliness. Or think about a drone system that can, you know, ship supplies to remote areas. Those are all applications where physical AI can make a huge difference. Is there going to be one main application? I don\u0026#8217;t know the answer to that yet.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI think it\u0026#8217;s about understanding context. Just to give an example, if I were to ask you, what time is it? You might say 12:30 and that\u0026#8217;s a correct answer, or you might say it\u0026#8217;s time for lunch. So the nuance is understanding the context. You know, it\u0026#8217;s not just a string of words. You\u0026#8217;re able to translate my question into the intent that I have embedded in my question. Our sister company, Synapse built a contextually aware robot many years ago, which kind of solidifies the point that I want to make. Imagine an Alexa system that we have used in the past. If you were to ask it, turn that light off, Alexa doesn\u0026#8217;t know which light to turn off. It just understands your words and your language, but doesn\u0026#8217;t understand context. So Synapse built this contextually aware robot, Gerard. If you were to look in a particular direction or point in a particular direction and say ‘turn that light off,’ the robot then senses, it understands gaze and gesture and can translate that into intent and take the right action of turning the right light off. So that\u0026#8217;s what we mean by understanding human intent. It requires multimodal sensing of voice, gesture, gaze, movement and sometimes even emotional state. Imagine if a human stops suddenly. Is it because of fear, or did they drop something? The system has to be able to understand those kinds of nuances, and we\u0026#8217;re not there yet, but there\u0026#8217;s a lot of advances that are happening in that space.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:09:44] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e As autonomous systems leave controlled environments, they start to meet us where we are. And that changes the design challenge entirely. Here John shares why the human must always be at the center of physical AI innovation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:09:57] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I think increasingly we will see autonomous systems sharing human spaces. And so we have to ask ourselves, you know, how do we want technology to show up in our space and share our space? What form it takes, what expression it takes, is really very nuanced. My colleague Inna Lobel can speak more about this, but imagine if you\u0026#8217;re making a coffee making machine, a robot that can just dispense coffee. Making coffee for us is a ritual. It\u0026#8217;s more than just an activity. There\u0026#8217;s emotion involved in it. There is a routine involved in it. Maybe you drink coffee with someone special in your life. So considering all those contextual factors of emotion and context and social cues is very important thinking about the form and the expression of the system that you design.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRobotics itself is not new. It has been around for many decades, but there have been advances in technology as well as shifts in how people think about technology which is accelerating the advance of physical AI. Thinking about it first from the perspective of AI, robotics in the past was mostly confined behind fences in constrained environments, and they were scripted to do like a specific task, like a pick and place robot, repetitive task that it keeps doing again and again. But today, foundation models are allowing robots to learn from data, to learn from experience. So instead of programming it to do something almost like human beings, they\u0026#8217;re learning from our experiences, which we show them through different kinds of training models, but also through their own experiences of doing something and then learning from it. And that means that today, robots are more adaptive. They\u0026#8217;re not just doing one set task. They can adapt to new situations that they have not seen before. So that\u0026#8217;s like a big change when you think about it from the AI perspective. The other angle is advances in hardware, and costs of hardware, especially sensors and compute, have dropped significantly. What that means is that physical AI is becoming more accessible. Maybe what cost, let\u0026#8217;s say, $100,000 to build in the past, maybe cost a fraction of that today. And so in addition to being confined to, you know, high end industrial applications or automotive applications, physical AI will start entering service-centric contracts or consumer spaces as well. So that\u0026#8217;s the second piece, and the third piece is socioeconomic factors as well. When we think about the evolving consumer needs, this push for greater personalization, faster delivery, is really what is accelerating physical AI in industrial settings, but meanwhile, aging populations are driving use cases in elder care and structural labor gaps in retail are accelerating food automation robots as well. So it\u0026#8217;s this combination of technological advances in AI, drops in cost of hardware and socioeconomic factors that\u0026#8217;s driving physical AI.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:50] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e We’re going to take a short break. When we return, John will discuss the human choices at the center of physical AI—what we hand over to machines, what we hold onto, and how those decisions shape the world we’re building together.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"id":86210,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","filesize":77251,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85084,"date":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","modified":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-300x287.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":287,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-768x735.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-1024x980.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":613,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","1536X1536Width":1268,"1536X1536Height":1214,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","2048X2048Width":1268,"2048X2048Height":1214}},"description":"For more on how AI is bending the limits of our physical and digital worlds, download our latest frog report ‘Futurescape: Artificial Realities.’  ","reportLink":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry","type":"internal"}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:13:32] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Now back to John Robins, Head of Physical AI at frog.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:13:35] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e So I think the technology is not in its R\u0026amp;D stage. It\u0026#8217;s certainly like in early stages of deployment, maybe not fully ready to scale, because of that, I think we will see earliest adoption of physical AI in industrial settings. What I mean by that is that industrial settings are kind of semi-structured. The workflows are standardized. The space is more predictable and the stakes are low as well. If something fails, it is not catastrophic. Versus, let\u0026#8217;s say, if you think about like a home setting, it\u0026#8217;s a little bit, or maybe not a little bit, it\u0026#8217;s the most unstructured environment, unpredictable space. You have wires hanging around, you have kids running around, and so building robotics for home spaces is going to be tricky. Or think about health care, I think that\u0026#8217;s going to be one of the biggest spaces for adoption of physical AI, but it’s a highly regulated industry, you can\u0026#8217;t have a system that hallucinates or makes an error. And so, both from a technology standpoint, as well as from a business standpoint, I think the earliest adoption is going to be in the back of the house automation. As I mentioned earlier, there are systemic structural gaps in labor force, and so there\u0026#8217;s a clear ROI in the industrial space. And as technology matures, as people\u0026#8217;s trust in autonomous systems increases as well, we will see adoption of physical AI in more consumer-facing spaces as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAll these physical systems are also data collection engines. If you think about whether it\u0026#8217;s just a sensor in a equipment, industrial equipment, or whether it\u0026#8217;s a robot, it\u0026#8217;s actually collecting data about the real world interaction with human beings, automating different activities and tasks. And so it is both an opportunity and also a reason for caution as well. I think the opportunity is in integrating this new layer of data with existing digital data as well, systems like an ERP or a WMS system. If you think about integrating data coming from different streams, then you\u0026#8217;re able to create new categories of new meaning and new categories of products, new revenue generation opportunities. And so I think data is going to be a key, and data will be a differentiator and potentially a moat for the company as well, because this is your own proprietary data. It\u0026#8217;s not just internet scale data. This is specific to the enterprise or the application or the context in which you\u0026#8217;re deploying the system. So data is going to be a key differentiator.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen I talk to clients, one of the things that I want to address is thinking about, what kind of activity do you want to automate as this autonomous system starts sharing human spaces, what should remain deeply human, and what is it that you want to offload to a machine? And number two is also calculating or understanding the business value of automating a task. I was recently talking to a client. Their business goal was to double the output without increasing the number of employees. And, you know, to build a system like that, the upfront CapEx was really high, so it didn\u0026#8217;t really make business sense for them just to create one robot for one retail space. So I think we had to ask ourselves, like, what activities are automatable, and is there business value? Like mapping it against those two axes will give us the answer of, what are the things that we want to really automate?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe tasks that are automatable are the ones that are usually repetitive and where the stakes are low, meaning that if something goes wrong, it\u0026#8217;s not catastrophic. The upside of automating a task is high because you\u0026#8217;re automating a repetitive task and taking away that mundane task away from a human being, and if for some reason, something fails, the downside is very low. So that, for me, is like the criteria of deciding what to automate and what not to automate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:09] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Sharing physical space with AI is only the beginning. The deeper shift comes when machines start to share our tasks and our time. During our conversation, John shared his perspective on turning from the functional aspects of technology to its real values.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:25] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the other important consideration would also be, what is it that humans want to hold, and what is it that they want to fold? What are the things that humans like to continue doing, and what are the things that they don\u0026#8217;t want to do? Maybe it\u0026#8217;s dangerous, maybe it\u0026#8217;s dull and not as meaningful for them. So again, thinking about machines as autonomous systems that will share, not just human spaces, but human tasks and share decision making. We are to consider what are those things that will keep humans at the center of innovation and make life more richer for them than feeling like they\u0026#8217;ve been replaced?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen you think about systems today, they have human-like characteristics, which means they have the intelligence to ingest information, reason about it and take action. They have that agency to decide for themselves without needing a human intervention. The human is not programming and telling it what to do. It\u0026#8217;s learning from what humans have taught it, but then it can adapt itself to new situations. This is a big shift, because if you think about it, humans have always directed the work of other non-human entities, right? But now machines are becoming intelligent like humans. They can see, they can talk in natural language, they can perceive, break a problem into multiple steps and then take actions. And this is both exciting, but also demands real caution. In a digital system, you know, if a system hallucinates, you know, we all have had experiences where you ask a question and it makes up something and makes it sound like it\u0026#8217;s real. But you know, you can use human judgment to understand that there is an error and you can correct it. But in the physical world, if the system hallucinates, so for example, if you ask it to pick a pipe and it pulls a live wire instead, it can be catastrophic. It can harm people, or it can cause damage to property. And so as systems become more and more autonomous, and machines are able to learn a range of new behaviors, it really becomes harder to predict and constrain their behavior. And so building systems with guardrails, the operational limits, and having human in the loop as much as needed is, I believe, the right direction. So physical AI has to be predictable. It has to have legible behavior, where humans are able to understand what the system is doing, and why is it doing that, and whether it is whether they can override it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:38] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e As the field matures, the question is no longer just can we build it. It’s how—and why—we choose to. Because, ultimately, these systems will shape the world we live in. When it comes to business strategy, John shared why certain principles must apply to designing, building and scaling physical AI.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:54] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I live in Silicon Valley, where the guiding principle is, you know, move fast and break things. I believe that when it comes to physical AI, we have to design with purpose and engineer responsibly. I believe that we are not just creating products. We are creating a new world, a new reality, in which we are sharing our lives, our spaces, our tasks, our decisions, with autonomous systems. And so we have to carefully think about the unintended consequences, and also, what kind of world do we want to create for ourselves and our future generations? The opportunity is real, but I don\u0026#8217;t think that the answer is robots everywhere. You have to apply robotics and physical AI where they intersect with human needs. And as I mentioned earlier, that could mean a robotic dog that helps reduce loneliness for an aging parent. It could mean robot-assisted disaster evacuation, or, you know, drone delivery of critical supplies. Regardless of what that use case is, and we have to identify where the pain points are, and you know where it makes sense to have robotic systems take on some of these tasks, but the core principle is to design with purpose and engineer responsibly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI would add that when you think about great physical experience, I would say that technology should never be in our face. It should be invisible. It\u0026#8217;s a system that fades into the background and quietly makes life easier for us. We see robots flipping, and sometimes you want to ask, is it cool or is it really creepy? We don\u0026#8217;t know. So I believe that you know, great physical experiences are the ones that make humans feel respected, empowered, augmented and are taking on the tasks and things that humans don\u0026#8217;t want to do or should not do, instead of managing them or replacing them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:31] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Amidst all this complexity, John shares how something simple always comes back into view. Humans are social. We attach meaning. And any intelligence that shares our space will eventually share our emotional landscape too.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:21:44] John Robins:\u003c/strong\u003e I think, you know, human beings are social by nature. We like to bond. We like to connect. Even when you think of, you know, something like ChatGPT or Claude, any LLM based system, humans are forming a kind of relationship with it, a parasocial relationship, so to speak. So when you think about physical AI robotic systems, these are systems that will occupy our space, so we will, over time, maybe form some kind of connection with these systems. So having systems that share our space and take on our tasks while being relatable, and systems that you feel comfortable around and systems that create delight for you, is where the magic lies.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI believe that physical AI needs both designers and engineers. Designers imagine what could be without any constraints, new futures, experiences, systems that could advance human life. I believe engineers bring that to life, bring that to reality. Working with the constraints of what technology can do. I often like to think of them as, you know, the left and right side of our brain. The analytical and the experiential side of humanity that kind of, when, when it comes together, becomes one cohesive unit. I do think that there\u0026#8217;s a lot that we can learn from each other. I believe that engineers have to understand and develop fluency in what I would call soft metrics, understanding, delight, trust, meaningful experiences, memorable experiences. And I feel that designers have to respect hard metrics, latency, reliability, safety margins, mean time between failures. So I think we need a shared language between both designers and engineers, because design decisions become system behavior, and system behavior drives human experiences. And so it\u0026#8217;s, you know, when we bring those two sides together, of imagining what could be and bringing it to reality, that\u0026#8217;s when magic happens.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:35] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eCheck today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry#download\"\u003efrog’s Futurescape report\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our guest, John Robins, Head of Physical AI at frog for sharing his insights.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"slug":"john-robins","authorName":"John Robins","bio":"\u003cp\u003eJohn focuses on building connected ecosystems where intelligent systems and humans work seamlessly together. With 18+ years in product strategy and innovation, he partners with innovative companies and senior leaders to shape new futures using AI, robotics, computer vision, smart sensing, and geospatial technologies.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHe previously led product management at a major technology company and ran an industrial IoT startup. John holds an MBA from DeMontfort University, is pursuing an MS in Computer Science (AI) at Georgia Tech and frequently speaks on Physical AI. He is also a Gartner Product Management Ambassador.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOutside of work, John loves to explore new countries, hit the padel court, and catch live theatre.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Head of Physical AI","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":87035,"title":"John-Robins-author","filename":"John-Robins-author.jpg","filesize":119679,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/john-robins/attachment/john-robins-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"john-robins-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":87033,"date":"2026-05-15 19:28:39","modified":"2026-05-15 19:28:39","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1000,"height":1000,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author-768x768.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":640,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":640,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":1000,"1536X1536Height":1000,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/John-Robins-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":1000,"2048X2048Height":1000}}},{"slug":"elizabeth-wood","authorName":"Elizabeth Wood","bio":"\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eElizabeth tells design stories for frog. She first joined the New York studio in 2011, working on multidisciplinary teams to design award-winning products and services. Today, Elizabeth works out of the London studio on the global frog marketing team, leading editorial content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eShe has written and edited hundreds of articles about design and technology, and has given talks on the role of content in a weird, digital world. Her work has been published in \u003ci\u003eThe Content Strategist\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eUNDO-Ordinary\u003c/i\u003e magazine and the book \u003ci\u003eAlone Together: Tales of Sisterhood and Solitude in Latin America\u003c/i\u003e (Bogotá International Press).\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003ePreviously, Elizabeth was Communications Manager for UN OCHA’s Centre for Humanitarian Data in The Hague. She is a graduate of the Master’s Programme for Creative Writing at Birkbeck College, University of London.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Host, Design Mind frogcast \u0026 Editorial Director, frog Global Marketing","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":21629,"title":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2","filename":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","filesize":61336,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/12203718/Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/elizabeth-wood/attachment/elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2/","alt":"","author":"22","description":"","caption":"","name":"elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":16815,"date":"2021-03-12 20:37:18","modified":"2021-03-12 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Mind frogcast Ep.59 – Live from Milan Design Week","description":"Our Guests: Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer, frog; Matteo Battiston, Chief Design Officer, EssilorLuxottica; Massimo Banzi, Founder, SuperModerno, Co-founder, Arduino; Inna Lobel, Head of Industrial Design, frog; Tim Ensor, Director of Artificial Intelligence, Cambridge Consultants ","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e, we ask: how is the physicality of AI expanding into our lives?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFrom eyewear to self-driving cars, AI-powered products of all sizes are increasingly making their way into our worlds. What can we do to ensure we welcome robotics into human spaces in mindful, respect ways? And could these intelligent objects set us on the path to finally becoming superhuman?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLive from our Milan frog studio during Milan Design Week 2026, join a panel of experts as they share insights into this fascinating, fast-developing area.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode and watch the full video below. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWant to go deeper into designing tomorrow’s world? Download frog’s latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003eFuturescape report ‘Artificial Realities.’\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://player.simplecast.com/095f781d-227d-4aa2-8ad3-a9a703ad61d4?dark=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"200px\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 59:\u003c/strong\u003e Live from Milan Design Week\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuests:\u003c/strong\u003e Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer, frog; Matteo Battiston, Chief Design Officer, EssilorLuxottica; Massimo Banzi, Founder, SuperModerno, Co-founder, Arduino; Inna Lobel, Head of Industrial Design, frog; Tim Ensor, Director of Artificial Intelligence at Cambridge Consultants\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:03] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we’re talking about physical AI and the future of human-centered embodied intelligence. To do this, we take you live to the frog studio in Milan, Italy, during the recent Milan Design Week, one of the world’s leading events for creativity, technology and craft. In a panel discussion, we’re joined by Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer at frog, Matteo Battiston, Chief Design Officer at EssilorLuxottica, Massimo Banzi, Co-founder of Arduino, Inna Lobel, Head of Industrial Design at frog, and Tim Ensor, Director of Artificial Intelligence at Cambridge Consultants, part of Capgemini Invent. You’ll hear their perspectives on overcoming the hype, designing for privacy and the industrial applications of robots. We take you to the panel now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:04] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Good evening everyone. Welcome to frog. It\u0026#8217;s a pleasure to see both some familiar faces, but also some that are new. I mean, it\u0026#8217;s clients, it\u0026#8217;s practitioners, it\u0026#8217;s some colleagues that came from other studios worldwide. And it\u0026#8217;s very special in this week that it is the Milan Design Week. I think it\u0026#8217;s quite a special moment to be inspired and discuss about the intersection of creativity and innovation. So I\u0026#8217;m Chiara Diana. For those that don\u0026#8217;t know me, I\u0026#8217;m Global Head of Design at frog, which is the experience and business reinvention brand that is part of Capgemini. And I have the pleasure to lead our frog Global Innovation Team that is actually based here in this office in Milano, right on the other side of the of the floor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:52] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Tonight, we welcome you into our Futurescape. Futurescape is our continuous, ongoing platform for research. What we do with our frogs, globally, with their inspiration, we look for the weak signals. We look for the weak signals at the intersection of science, technology and obviously design to start identifying what could be path forward, and we use them to shape trajectories that are more provocations for collective reflections than in defining exactly what the future should be. But it\u0026#8217;s also a call to action for us to reflect on what is our agency and role in shaping this future forward. A lot of that is about this new human-AI chemistry: how humans and AI are starting to coexist, starting to collaborate and sometimes collide, in shaping new realities that were really not possible years or even months ago. And as part of that, an angle which is transformative is the fact that intelligence is starting to be embedded in the world surrounding us, in the objects, in the spaces, transforming the way in which we interact and relate with them and between us as human beings.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:10] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e So the question, in a way, becomes on how we design for that, and that\u0026#8217;s going to be the topic of the conversation tonight. So designing for physical intelligence, and even starting maybe a bit back on what even physical intelligence is as maybe there are different opinions. I cannot be more excited for the panel tonight, as I have an exceptional group of speakers that join me and said yes when I asked them to join this conversation, friends and colleagues, bringing definitely different perspectives. So I welcome them on stage one by one, and share with me welcoming them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:45] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Tim Ensor, first, please join me here. Tim is the director of artificial intelligence at Cambridge Consultants. He is really working on understanding how that novel research in the space of artificial intelligence can be brought back into product and services and solutions that we can really practice.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:08] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Second, I\u0026#8217;ll invite Massimo Banzi. Massimo is founder of Super Moderno, has been co-founder of Arduino, and with that, enabling many of us as designers and makers to really start, you know, making things happen for real before they were even possible.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:25] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Third, Inna Lobel from our New York studio. She\u0026#8217;s leading industrial design in our North America team, but most of all, among others, also with her Nome project she\u0026#8217;s leading the way in which we think about designing for robotics. A bit of debate will be today on, is robotics, physical intelligence? What else? But definitely, that\u0026#8217;s an interesting perspective.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:46] Chiara Diana\u003c/strong\u003e: And last but not least, Matteo Battiston, Chief Design Officer EssilorLuxottica, whose work on AI smart eyewear is really leading the frontiers of what it means to bring physical intelligence to scale. So I\u0026#8217;m super excited. Thanks for joining me in this conversation today. I want to start with a warming up question for all of us. So we were debating this before. So when we think about physical intelligence, I tend intuitionally to think of these spectacular demos that we get back from CES where you see humanoid robotics that are crawling or dancing or even loading the dishwasher, which is definitely, maybe we feel more as a value gain. But is that the full story? Is that the place where people will feel physical intelligence first? So the question, the warm up question, and I will go in the round, will be how what do you see as something, as a tangible, concrete manifestation of physical intelligence today? And what you think is overhyped?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:05:47] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e Hi Chiara, thank you very much. This is a very exciting panel. I\u0026#8217;m looking forward to this discussion as well. So for me, first of all, physical intelligence is a branch of AI where we can have machines and AI able to understand the physical world in a way that they\u0026#8217;ve not been able to to date. And for me, the area we see that right now is us all enjoying increasingly low cost fulfillment of internet orders. Because behind the scenes, there are increasing armies of robots operating warehouses, which are a hotbed of innovation for allowing machines to understand the world in more intelligent ways. We\u0026#8217;re seeing that right now, and that is an area which will continue to to emerge and innovate in secret. Did you want to hype one as well?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:24] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e As you like.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:24] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e I think you\u0026#8217;ve already said it. So we\u0026#8217;ve seen an awful lot of exciting back flipping robots and robots going around cleaning up our homes after us. I think that\u0026#8217;s gonna be way off.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:33] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e So you\u0026#8217;re saying that the ones which is more concrete is the one that we don\u0026#8217;t see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:36] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e Today? Yes, that\u0026#8217;s right.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:37] Massimo Banzi:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think one of the probably most interesting application for me is when you look at sensors. So now that we can use AI with sensors, we can from very basic information, we can extract a lot of understanding about the world. And also, there are AI models that the current AI models that we all use are currently mostly working on words, on text, but the new models, they are designed to understand the physical world. And I think that combination of sensing the world and understanding it, it\u0026#8217;s probably one of the interesting things I\u0026#8217;m most interested in.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:10] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e And hold that thought for some minutes, because that\u0026#8217;s definitely one topic that we want to expand more, this topic of how do we understand the space around. Inna?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:20] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e I think an interesting application of physical AI has been the self-driving cars and Waymo and some of the kind of transportation robots that we see in the US. It\u0026#8217;s been really wonderful to see them move around the streets, and how they can signal the intent, how they allow us to interact in these new ways. The hype, I think I would agree, is the back flipping robots.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:45] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think the question is pretty wide. So we have been trained in defining intelligence as something that is very human, and so even when it becomes synthetic, when it becomes artificial, I think it has to keep a layer of humanity. So I don\u0026#8217;t believe in an intelligence, physical intelligence, that is here to be instead of humans, but with humans. So this is, I think, the purpose. That\u0026#8217;s why I think there is a little bit of a misconception. So there\u0026#8217;s probably where we can start debating about. I don\u0026#8217;t think this will have the shape of robots that will make things instead of us, but quietly blending into life of people with products that we really accept. So that\u0026#8217;s, I think, the best way for physical intelligence to really blend in our lives. So I believe more in small and hidden products than big humanoids that are here to replace us.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:41] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Personally, I would agree. I don\u0026#8217;t know if as a moderator, I should be neutral, or I can express an opinion, but I think it\u0026#8217;s definitely is about spectrum. But I think that the place where people will start to feel it first is this element of agency that is starting to infuse into our everyday life and everyday objects. But in a way, is a spectrum, right? So on one side, you were speaking about dispatching goods. I think Amazon was just announcing that they did a one millionth robot that is playing in that space. On the other side, you have these AI that is infusing all the hair dryers that you try to buy now. So if you go on Amazon, all the hair dryers have an element of artificial intelligence into that. So definitely is a spectrum.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe CEO of Nvidia was saying that the “moment” for physical intelligence, or physical AI, is now. So why? I mean, what is happening now that is different from the previous waves? What is making it being a turning point that we should consider that seriously? Tim, first of all, from an engineering perspective, is this something that is really changing, or is another moment of just buzz?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:09:49] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think Massimo was touching on this in his answer a minute ago, as is often the way, when you see these steps forward in capability, there\u0026#8217;s a number of threads which are coming together. I think the most interesting one is the emergence of different classes of AI models, which are blending together an understanding of the visual scene that they\u0026#8217;re looking at, the verbal description of that scene, or somebody asking a question about that scene, but also then including in that an element of action or reaction. There are new models emerging which bring all of those together. And that is the foundation of what we\u0026#8217;re seeing in the new robotics capability.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAlongside that, we\u0026#8217;ve seen the increasing importance of simulation capability, because, as we understand, we can\u0026#8217;t train these models on words and images from the internet. We have to train them on an experience of interacting with an environment. Now the real world is complex and messy and in some cases dangerous and expensive if you\u0026#8217;re going to train a robot. So training these actions in simulation is becoming increasingly important, and the quality of the simulations we\u0026#8217;re working with now can be made so lifelike that when you train an AI model in a simulator and then you deploy it into a real product, it behaves in the way you expect it to, as opposed to tripping over the differences between the simulator and the real world. So that simulation capability is getting to the point where we\u0026#8217;re suddenly able to get improvement in performance from robotic systems as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I think the last one is on the hardware. And I think we\u0026#8217;ll talk about miniaturization and how you bring different hardware capabilities together, but the ability of new compute chips to run these heavyweight models, to control robots in collaboration with improvements in motor technology and battery technology and sensing technology, all of those are coming together to the fact that we\u0026#8217;re now seeing these step changes in what you can achieve with machines interacting intelligently with the physical world and the people around them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:35] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e The moment is now not because of one thing. The moment is now because there are a series of things that are happening at the same moment and together are enabling this new even scale.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:46] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, no, that\u0026#8217;s exactly right. With any new emergence of technology, it can appear simple. So a lot of the YouTube videos that we\u0026#8217;ve seen over the last year have largely been either robot machines, which have been following a pre-recorded script, or they\u0026#8217;ve got a puppeteer somewhere in the background who\u0026#8217;s a human directing them. And to try and understand how and where the challenges are, over the last year or so, at least a year, my team have been working in a lab with a couple of humanoids, where we\u0026#8217;ve taken them apart, put them back together, change the sensor set, learn how you train them, learn how you get them to do useful work, to really get under the skin of where is the technology curve moving? How fast is it moving? And how do we work out where the real areas of value are?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:21] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Thanks, Tim. And I mean, if we think on one side, the moment is now because technology seems to be more ready than before. On the other side, it seems that also people are a little bit more ready than before. I think we heard in the EssilorLuxottica report, if I put it right, that 7 million AI eyewear have been sold in 2025 so that means that there is demand. So why, Matteo, you think that there is demand now, and why eyewear have been the one element that has been able to bring physical intelligence into the consumer space?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:55] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e That resonates with the kind of sweet spot that we were touching. So technology is ready, miniaturization is close, but there is something more. So people have awareness that we can empower them with something that is little bit different from what they were used to. It\u0026#8217;s not the first time, if we think about it. So the very first branded product if we speak about glasses was back in the 80s. It was a medical device that then was turned into something that was an identity piece. So we changed the meaning of technology somehow. We are making the same leap in order to convince people that the moment is ready. How do you work with that? You work on trust. So that\u0026#8217;s why we were one of the first doing AI glasses, we were one of the first doing smart glasses. Probably we have been the first thinking that those should have been products that people would have been confident wearing. And then it\u0026#8217;s about wearing the product you are close to that somehow help you defining your identity and the way the world sees you, but with another layer that is really empowering in a different way. So that I think is the sweet spot which resonates with awareness of technology and scale, of course. So that was the fortunate angle that we try to create.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:13] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e So I\u0026#8217;ll go off script for a moment, just because your answer triggered something in my mind. Do you think that as the one of the drivers for the adoption is that you have been intersecting a sort of desire for humans to be super humans in a way?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:28] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe. So for sure not humanoids, just normal people with the glasses they love. That\u0026#8217;s why we started with icons. Once again, it\u0026#8217;s related to trust. You trust the iconic product that you always have been wearing. But I think a layer that was a kind of a plus—that is a that is a kind of a competition that products make with your attention. And if you think about the real estate that we are wearing when we wear this part, which is a part that is not for free. So putting a product on your face, it\u0026#8217;s not like putting on your wrist or in your pocket. So this is where your identity starts. But it\u0026#8217;s also close to your senses. It\u0026#8217;s so close to your vision. It\u0026#8217;s close to your ears, it\u0026#8217;s close to the possibility to speak and to communicate. So the idea that you can compete a little bit less with your attention, for example, in looking at a wrist or raising a telephone, that is, that was a strong benefit, and that is just the beginning of something that can be bigger and bigger than that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:25] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e We spoke about, you know, this is not the end. This is just the first step. It’s a longer trajectory of transformation and potential. Massimo, with Arduino, you brought physical computing to many people. You were enabling many people us in the first place, makers and designers, to start prototyping things that were not there yet. Where is the next wave of physical intelligence going? What are people prototyping now that we don\u0026#8217;t know yet?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:50] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the things that\u0026#8217;s happening is that if you look at the history of technology, there was some ideas before, there is a technology that\u0026#8217;s available, and now technology is catching up. So now you start to get very powerful processors. They use less and less power, so that you can run complex models, also on very cheap hardware. So when I started running the first machine learning models on little processors, you could do very, very basic things. Now you can run the equivalent of on a computer that can see the size of a book, and it will be the size of a tiny cube at some point. And I think this is very, very important because one of the things that I wanted everyone to be aware of is that physical intelligence is great. You see all these things that are beautiful, but it\u0026#8217;s an incredible privacy nightmare, because every time you use an AI that runs somewhere else, they are using your data. They basically feed themselves on your data. They know everything that you do. And you pay. You pay to be surveilled.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo I think one of the things in the future, this concept of local AI, it\u0026#8217;s going to be an incredible moment. I\u0026#8217;m already running my own AI server, so I don\u0026#8217;t have to go, I think, to the cloud. But I think in the future, you will be able to have a tiny server somewhere in your house that run your own AI, that one is the next thing I\u0026#8217;m really looking forward to. And yes, obviously these new AI models that understand the physical world are going to be incredibly important because understanding the physical world through language, it\u0026#8217;s not exactly the future, but you know, one of the fathers of AI is looking at this new models that really start from an understanding of the physical world, and they can actually learn. So the robot can fall down three, four times, and then suddenly start to learn by itself. Why am I falling? Can I stop falling? Current models don\u0026#8217;t really do that. So we could be talking for all, but the takeaway: privacy, be careful.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:58] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e So maybe shifting gears more to the role of design into that and how design is changing. With the Nome project, Inna, you have been exploring a lot about how do we understand, we are understood, and then we build relationships. Behaviors are becoming the interface by which we interact and understand these objects that are becoming intelligent. What\u0026#8217;s your take and perspective on it?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:18:20] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think that\u0026#8217;s one of the things that\u0026#8217;s been really interesting for us to think through, is kind of, how do we actually live with these objects? How do we want to bring them into our houses? Into our like human spaces? And how do we make sure that we\u0026#8217;re kind of both creating and preserving the right aspects of our culture? So with Nome, this is an R\u0026amp;D project for us, where we\u0026#8217;re thinking about, how do we bring robotics into the home. But really it\u0026#8217;s about, how do we bring robotics into human spaces? And one of the things that we did there was, first, just map out, what are some of the social interactions, what are some of the ways that we use our homes, and where do we want something that augments us? What would it mean for it to be part of the fabric there? And so it\u0026#8217;s interesting. I think behavior is one critical interface, and there\u0026#8217;s actually two interfaces, because behavior is also empowered and created through the form that it has. So we looked at those things together and really being mindful of, you know, how does this object signal to us? How do we signal to it? What are the right moments to have it kind of come into our spaces? Where should it stay back and then really thinking about the ways that we communicate with each other, and trying to tease out which ones of those might we bring to this platform so that it can be more legible? So that we can understand intentionality, and I think it\u0026#8217;s going to really go both ways.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:49] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e And you mentioned, I mean these signals, and this interpretation of the signals, and therefore the intent right on both sides. Because in the moment in which those entities start to get agency—and this is in the physical space, but I think in the digital applies similarly—how do you anticipate what is going to happen, which plays in an element of trust as well? So the idea that you can predict what is going to happen, reaffirming your interpretation of reality. This human-machine understanding is becoming key. We spoke about the new models that are starting to interpret the human space, the physical space, but it\u0026#8217;s also about the human and the machine itself. Tim, what is changing from an engineering perspective that is enabling this interpretation to happen? I mean, can we code empathy in a way?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:20:37] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#8217;s a really interesting and challenging space, I think, for me, for a product to respond in a way which is empathetic, somehow, without wishing to overload any of these words, it has to be able to react to the human in a way which understands the context that human is in and responds in a way which is in line with what they would expect. And this is quite hard for a machine because humans are very complex entities, as we all know. But we looked to this about three years ago, four years ago, we started a team specifically called Human-Machine Understanding, where we were bringing together psychologists and behavioral scientists with our AI engineers and our computer scientists to try and kind of grapple with this particular area. Because we could see that this was going to be a challenge that as we embodied more AI into products we would all want and expect to be able to interact with them in more naturalistic ways. At its core, from an engineering perspective, it comes down to blending different ways of sensing the world around us in intelligent ways. And some of the work I mentioned on our robotic theme is relevant, but I think it carries across to any form factors. Where we\u0026#8217;ve had an example where we\u0026#8217;re blending sensors from image, putting those through a number of different algorithmic threads to be able to understand someone\u0026#8217;s speech, be able to understand their gesture, be able to, from a view of the world, interpret a gesture as relevant to an object in the scene. We can identify the object and label it in association with the words from the human. And we can also survey the scene to kind of unpick ambiguity. So there\u0026#8217;s a great video one of our researchers who\u0026#8217;s leading this space having a conversation with the machine, where he says, “Can you move the cup over there?” And this location of the cup has to be identified over there being a reference to an object or a table, in this instance, has to be interpreted, and then the instruction gets played back again. But there\u0026#8217;s also ambiguity because, actually, there\u0026#8217;s two cups, so that the machine has to go, “Oh, actually, I need to solve this ambiguity first before I can understand how to respond effectively.” And it\u0026#8217;s just kind of a little example of what the team have been doing to try and think about: how do you bring different interaction modalities, both visual and verbal, and in a way where the machine has an understanding itself of the scene and has to work through the thinking about what does the human mean from the instruction or the interaction they\u0026#8217;ve given? And unpick that to ensure that they can respond in the most empathetic way. So it\u0026#8217;s a really, really rich and exciting area, which I would say we\u0026#8217;re just at the beginning of. But I think it\u0026#8217;s these technology pieces which enable us to design behaviors on top of them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:22:54] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e While I believe that conversational AI is fantastic, and all this kind of chat interactions with all the dimensions of life are definitely opening up the territory for novelty, but it feels like, in some moments, a regression to a way of expressing and interacting that is very intense and time consuming and very difficult to express the totality of your intentions and even emotions. I was hearing this podcast with the CEO of Airbnb, and they were discussing about, you know, disintermediation and will have everything happen to an agent. And he was saying, but try to book the apartment for your next vacation just in a verbal conversation with a chatbot—it will take ages and forever, and you\u0026#8217;ll probably not get it right in the first place. So this idea of enabling a multi-dimensional, multimodal understanding of reality, to me, is really foundational to you know, enabling what is what is possible next.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:48] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e I completely agree, and I think the space we\u0026#8217;re at now is trying to work out, how do we give AI machines enough embodied context to be able to respond appropriately? And as humans, we build that context up over our entire lives of interaction. And at the moment, machines don\u0026#8217;t have that ability. But I think this question about how do we create data models which allow a machine to access the context of relationships between people, relationships between a person now and events in their past, relationships between the group of people. And all of this is extraordinarily rich context, but is necessary for us all as humans to respond appropriately to each other. And I think that is the next challenge for us to get machines to respond appropriately—is to be able to collect and model that data in such a way that a machine has access to it and can then give the kind of appropriate answers. Because I can 100% agree with you, prompt engineering should not be a thing, but at the moment, it is a thing because we have to communicate with large language models in this way.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:24:45] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e You are saying that it\u0026#8217;s important for the machines and this intelligence to get the richest possible understanding of the reality surrounding them. I mean, eyewear is there, right? They are this layering between perception and the world around us, the world around us and us, and how we can then act on it. So, Matteo, I\u0026#8217;m keen to hear your perspective on what Tim shared, but also how in the moment in which you\u0026#8217;re there and continuously, I mean, how you bear with that responsibility. How do you balance discreetness? And then when is the right moment to actually act?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:20] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it\u0026#8217;s, I go back to what Tim was saying, and I think in this room, in a design firm, it\u0026#8217;s happening something that is we need to stop for a while and think. It\u0026#8217;s a new beginning where we are designing new objects without thinking about performances and functionalities. So the major words that we have been using is culture and behaviors, which is beautiful. So we are designing something that is really new to people, and it\u0026#8217;s something that we can design starting with the way that we really interact with the world. And this is why we feel that working, for example, in this space. It\u0026#8217;s a kind of a quintessential thing because here\u0026#8217;s where the large majority of things that happens to us start. We see them, we sense them, we hear them. And yes, there is a there is a strong responsibility when you build, and you start building and designing those behaviors, because we need care. We need care of different aspects, we need care about intention when you load a new kind of intelligence to a human body. And so we need to be sure that the intention of the gesture that you are making are the right ones. And so those things can do a lot of things, you have to do the right one at that moment. This is the first one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second one is about being respectful of cognitive load. So we are doing things towards the world, but we are receiving a lot of data. You can be informed of things that are happening with information that are placed in the right place in the real world. Are we used to that? So we have to get there in the in the right way, in order to augment humans, not to disturb our intention.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd the third layer of responsibility, which still deals with what Massimo was saying, is respect to the bystanders. So we are doing things that are having an effect on people that are around us. Creating behaviors and creating services and information that are clear to the bystanders, won\u0026#8217;t solve at all what Massimo was saying, but they take it into consideration. In this fast conversation that we did before getting here on the stage, we were speaking about just one piece of technology. So if we think about a camera, for example, and we think about a camera in our garage, or we place it in our living room, or we place it in our face. We have three different way to think of that camera. So we have three different approaches, and maybe also some skeptical ones. In a garage it\u0026#8217;s very simple. In my living room, what is happening? On my face, what can you see that I\u0026#8217;m seeing? So that\u0026#8217;s the responsibility we have when we design, taking care of privacy at the very beginning and at the core of every product, which I think it\u0026#8217;s a layer that it\u0026#8217;s not skippable when you start designing. It\u0026#8217;s a first layer. So this is the first thing you design.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:28:13] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e We discussed a lot about before about compromises and constraints in the journey towards bringing, you know, this intelligence to scale. How do you deal in the moment in which you have these ambitions and priorities on trust and behavior, but on the other side, you have elements of constraints and compromises that needs to be made in order to meet the next milestone?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:28:37] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e That\u0026#8217;s the new skills of designers. So you don\u0026#8217;t just deal with shapes and with materials. Anytime that we you make a choice, it\u0026#8217;s a choice that is trading off with something else. You want two hours more function, and then you deal with two three millimeters on your face, or you want another function, and then you have to drop another one, or you have to add a lot of expense in terms of investment to have new batteries, new harvesting, new whatever. So it\u0026#8217;s a complete and ongoing tradeoff between function and acceptability of people. Because, once again, and I\u0026#8217;m just thinking about something that goes on our body, not always on a face. It\u0026#8217;s your body. So you are not a carrier. So it\u0026#8217;s a product that has to suit you. And so that\u0026#8217;s a real challenge when we design. It\u0026#8217;s a complete new set of know-how that a designer has to have, because the level every designer describes himself or herself like a curious person, the level of curiosity that you need to have has to go skyrocketing—because you have to deal with electricity, you have to deal with the connectors, you have to deal with magnetic powers. So, it\u0026#8217;s not just about a ship that you move with a chassis around something, especially when it\u0026#8217;s when you are in on such a complex real estate like on your face. So yes, it\u0026#8217;s a complete trade off every minute.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:30:04] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Massimo, you had a perspective on the constraints as a way, I mean, even as a matter for design. I mean, we live with tradeoffs. We design with constraints. What\u0026#8217;s the role of constraints in designing? And specifically, when we think about intelligence getting physical?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:30:21] Massimo Banzi:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, so I think one of the aspects of design is very interesting, is that the constraints, sometimes they make you very creative. The fact that you have to work around the constraint is actually what gives you sometimes ideas that are not conventional, because if you had all the money in the world and all the things in the world, you would, you know, when I made the first Arduino, my constraint was it had to cost 20 euros. So I had to take away everything—it was like the Model T Ford. It\u0026#8217;s a product that still sells now, ridiculous. But one of the other constraints, to me is very important, as I teach interaction design. So the first constraint between multiple quotes should be human beings. So we do user-centered design. So for us, the wellbeing of the person that we are designing for should be one of the main constraints. Unless you\u0026#8217;re designing bombs, that\u0026#8217;s a different story. But for all the other products, the person should be at the center. And I always thought that even in technology, a lot of times when we try to design things and we have constraints, you mentioned it, you know, sometimes it\u0026#8217;s power, you know, can you live with, like a bigger object for that tiny bit? So that those constraints, sometimes, they’re where you come up with the great idea, which I think it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s good. I love constraints. They make my life simpler.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:31:34] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think that then with these new layers that you were referring to, you know, these new dimensions, new variables that we need to consider, and this new curiosity that we need to have, do you think that the process of design needs to change compared to what we have today? If I think about the horizons of, or, speed of bringing an innovation to reality, if you think of a digital solution now, you can do that in a week in a few months ago, you can do that in three months. But if you think of a cycle of producing something, you know, physical object is completely another timeline. Shall we change our design process because of this new interplay?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:32:10] Massimo Banzi:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, obviously your design process is going to change a little bit, because now the variables you have to look at. So when you\u0026#8217;re designing a chair, there were a certain number of things you have to take care of, but if the chair starts to have a bunch of sensors, there is an AI, there\u0026#8217;s a bunch of different constraints, obviously, the way you organize your work, the workflow, the people you need to bring in, the fact that you know, if I look at my students, obviously, many years ago, they were mostly concerned about some aspects of the project. Now, my students in the master of interaction design, they do AI, they use AI as a tool, but also they understand AI as a material for building something. The number of things they need to keep in their mind, and they need to create some kind of a coherent vision starts to, you know, increases quite a lot understanding what kind of sensing can we add to this thing so that it understands the world, it understands people? So I think the process becomes much more sophisticated. And when you\u0026#8217;re making something physical, it’s ten times more complicated. Because, you know, in software, if your computer blows up, you go to Media World, you buy another one, it\u0026#8217;s fine. But if you are building, you know, a very sophisticated piece of hardware, software, and your prototype blows up the night before you\u0026#8217;re supposed to show it, which probably happened to you a few times? It\u0026#8217;s not random that in the US, they say “hardware is hard.” It\u0026#8217;s hard for a reason.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:36] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Inna, how many objects have you broken before going live at the NVIDIA event?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:42] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e It definitely happens. Usually it works perfectly, until you have to show it, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:48] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e You have been experimenting a lot in this space. In frog as probably one of the most experimental. I mean, what can you bring?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:56] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think, you know, one thing which is true is I feel like the fundamentals are really important. And that\u0026#8217;s something that, you know, we always kind of come back to is: what is the context that we\u0026#8217;re designing for? How do we prototype really quickly with cardboard so that we can get the ideas out and get a better sense for what to do? Because hardware is hard. Every iteration that you make takes a while to prototype, and I think we\u0026#8217;re being really mindful of that right now with physical AI also, because now as the complexity of what we\u0026#8217;re designing increases, making a prototype that works is also exponentially increasing. In order to build a simulation of something, the definition that you have to give to a hardware product, takes time to define in appropriate ways. So we\u0026#8217;ve been experimenting with new formats, for example, leveraging VR, leveraging the gaming and Unity, and the types of kind of interactive media that exists to see, okay, well, maybe we can take physical AI and robotics, and before we do all of the hard work on the engineering side, we can start to interact with these systems in a digital way as a bridge to gaining confidence that, yes, that\u0026#8217;s what we want to be doing. You know, this is the way we want to be interacting with it that kind of feeds back into what the sensor set is that we need. Really looking at ways that we can collapse the process, gain more confidence in what we\u0026#8217;re doing, and build that bridge across the various parts of the design process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:35:34] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e On the other side, Tim. When you when you look from outside, you think, these designers, they come with the ideas, but it\u0026#8217;s never feasible. How are you thinking of the engineering process evolving in this context?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:35:45] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e We always value the multidisciplinary leader and the multidisciplinary team, and that system thinking is something which we have to grapple with every day. And we have our core as an engineering team, but we have some designers, and we work with the frog team a lot. So the breadth of what you need as a set of disciplines, I think is expanding. And the more complex the products that you\u0026#8217;re building, the more complex and experience you\u0026#8217;re trying to create, the more disciplines you need to be able to either have both in the team, and have in your mind.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSome really interesting examples that say, I come back to the robotics example because it\u0026#8217;s something I\u0026#8217;ve been working on for the last year with my team, but it\u0026#8217;s also really interesting because of the richness of expression you can get. We chose humanoids as our experimental platform because they\u0026#8217;re the most complex. You know, they have 26 degrees of freedom in their movement before you even get to the hands. And so that is really interesting. So a couple of design choices that we\u0026#8217;ve seen recently. So Boston Dynamics new humanoid robot, they decided to make it have 360 degree rotation. So it can walk forwards, rotate its entire body 180 degrees and walk backwards without moving its legs around to walk backwards. Its head will rotate like an owl. So they\u0026#8217;ve had engineering choices which have implications for the way people interact with it, and the way in which you the design space you\u0026#8217;ve got to deal with. But then I also look at the things that Disney have done in their robotics, which they have been so deliberate in designing the personality. And it\u0026#8217;s a personality as expressed through physicality of the of the device.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut what\u0026#8217;s interesting about AI is its amazing capability to generalize, which means that you show it one example, you train it one thing, and it responds appropriately in an example you haven\u0026#8217;t trained it for. And so what that means is those designers have had to deliberately create the personality for the robot moving in a certain way, but then in the real world, didn\u0026#8217;t move in some other ways. And it\u0026#8217;ll take the characteristics of how you\u0026#8217;ve trained it for this thing and it will express it in a way you didn\u0026#8217;t train it for. And so we\u0026#8217;re getting all of these additional dimensions of building learning systems into products, which is a whole other way, I think, that the design community needs to be thinking about okay, I designed it for this, but my AI is going to generalize it in another way which I didn\u0026#8217;t design it for. We may not have tested it for. And the AI will represent it in the way that it chooses to. So understanding how that AI system is built from the ground up is a is another dimension of design understanding.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:00] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I love that you use the word personality, because that\u0026#8217;s what we\u0026#8217;ve been thinking about as well. And kind of one of the things that we\u0026#8217;ve been doing in designing these products that have motion, is right away thinking about the motion signature and building out kind of the character palette so that you can do something like that. And you start thinking about, what are the different ways we might want to interact with it, and how does that mean it\u0026#8217;s going to kind of come to life in the systems? I think it\u0026#8217;s such an interesting space.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:31] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e If I can build on that, it\u0026#8217;s also really interesting that you have to be deliberate about the things you think are obvious. So I had a really interesting conversation with some of the guys at Boston Dynamics, and their first product was the dog robot, and they trained it to go and inspect something and come back again. But because they trained it for utility, it just walked forwards and it looks up and then it walked backwards, and everyone looked at wend “a dog doesn\u0026#8217;t do that.” So the assumption that people bring because of the form factor you\u0026#8217;ve used means that you need to go, well, people aren\u0026#8217;t going to like that, not because it\u0026#8217;s not following the utility of the job you\u0026#8217;ve asked it to do, but because people have a preconception about the form factor and the personality you need to give it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:39:04] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e I think we all feel a bit of this tension of being, you know, on the edge and, I mean, are we jumping, or are we not? We feel this tension every day, every announcement that we read, it\u0026#8217;s a little bit more jumping into the unknown. But I think that’s the part that is very fascinating to me. It feels like, when we got the first wave of digital I started design at school for industrial design. It was not, you know, anything else. And these digital things started to come up, and it felt like we are writing something that is completely new and that was fascinating. Now I feel it\u0026#8217;s another wave of like that. So we are jumping into something that is completely new, all to be written, all to be, you know, scribed. And I think that that\u0026#8217;s because in this discourse, there is a role and an important role for design. So with this said, I thank you all. I thank you panelists for staying with me. Thanks so much, also for the conversations before. I thank you all for being with us. Stay with us little longer. So enjoy the exhibits. Some are a bit provocative on some of the topics that we covered. Get a drink. Keep connecting with people, and enjoy your time with frog. Thanks for coming.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:40:15] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download frog’s Futurescape report.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our guests and the team at frog Milan for sharing their insights from Milan Design Week.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"ID":86210,"id":86210,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","filesize":77251,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":85084,"date":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","modified":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-300x287.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":287,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-768x735.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-1024x980.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":613,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","1536x1536-width":1268,"1536x1536-height":1214,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","2048x2048-width":1268,"2048x2048-height":1214}},"description":"For more on how AI is bending the limits of our physical and digital worlds, download our latest frog report ‘Futurescape: Artificial Realities.’  ","report_link":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry","type":"internal"}},{"acf_fc_layout":"vimeo_block","vimeo_id":"1193323834","placeholder_image":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/milan-design-week-2026-cover-video.jpg","title":"","description":"","full_width":true,"video_file":false,"duration":{"hours":"","minutes":"","seconds":""},"schema_title":"","schema_description":""},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"ID":13210,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2020-07-08 20:10:34","post_date_gmt":"2020-07-08 20:10:34","post_content":"","post_title":"Chiara Diana","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"chiara-diana","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-04-14 18:01:30","post_modified_gmt":"2026-04-14 18:01:30","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=13210","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Chiara Diana","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGlobal design and innovation leader, Chiara brings over 20 years of experience shaping futureproof products and services for multinational organizations, with a sustained focus on healthcare since joining frog in 2010. 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Mind frogcast Ep.59 – Live from Milan Design Week","description":"Our Guests: Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer, frog; Matteo Battiston, Chief Design Officer, EssilorLuxottica; Massimo Banzi, Founder, SuperModerno, Co-founder, Arduino; Inna Lobel, Head of Industrial Design, frog; Tim Ensor, Director of Artificial Intelligence, Cambridge Consultants ","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e, we ask: how is the physicality of AI expanding into our lives?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFrom eyewear to self-driving cars, AI-powered products of all sizes are increasingly making their way into our worlds. What can we do to ensure we welcome robotics into human spaces in mindful, respect ways? And could these intelligent objects set us on the path to finally becoming superhuman?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLive from our Milan frog studio during Milan Design Week 2026, join a panel of experts as they share insights into this fascinating, fast-developing area.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode and watch the full video below. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWant to go deeper into designing tomorrow’s world? Download frog’s latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003eFuturescape report ‘Artificial Realities.’\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://player.simplecast.com/095f781d-227d-4aa2-8ad3-a9a703ad61d4?dark=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"200px\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 59:\u003c/strong\u003e Live from Milan Design Week\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuests:\u003c/strong\u003e Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer, frog; Matteo Battiston, Chief Design Officer, EssilorLuxottica; Massimo Banzi, Founder, SuperModerno, Co-founder, Arduino; Inna Lobel, Head of Industrial Design, frog; Tim Ensor, Director of Artificial Intelligence at Cambridge Consultants\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:00:03] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday on our show, we’re talking about physical AI and the future of human-centered embodied intelligence. To do this, we take you live to the frog studio in Milan, Italy, during the recent Milan Design Week, one of the world’s leading events for creativity, technology and craft. In a panel discussion, we’re joined by Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer at frog, Matteo Battiston, Chief Design Officer at EssilorLuxottica, Massimo Banzi, Co-founder of Arduino, Inna Lobel, Head of Industrial Design at frog, and Tim Ensor, Director of Artificial Intelligence at Cambridge Consultants, part of Capgemini Invent. You’ll hear their perspectives on overcoming the hype, designing for privacy and the industrial applications of robots. We take you to the panel now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:04] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Good evening everyone. Welcome to frog. It\u0026#8217;s a pleasure to see both some familiar faces, but also some that are new. I mean, it\u0026#8217;s clients, it\u0026#8217;s practitioners, it\u0026#8217;s some colleagues that came from other studios worldwide. And it\u0026#8217;s very special in this week that it is the Milan Design Week. I think it\u0026#8217;s quite a special moment to be inspired and discuss about the intersection of creativity and innovation. So I\u0026#8217;m Chiara Diana. For those that don\u0026#8217;t know me, I\u0026#8217;m Global Head of Design at frog, which is the experience and business reinvention brand that is part of Capgemini. And I have the pleasure to lead our frog Global Innovation Team that is actually based here in this office in Milano, right on the other side of the of the floor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:01:52] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Tonight, we welcome you into our Futurescape. Futurescape is our continuous, ongoing platform for research. What we do with our frogs, globally, with their inspiration, we look for the weak signals. We look for the weak signals at the intersection of science, technology and obviously design to start identifying what could be path forward, and we use them to shape trajectories that are more provocations for collective reflections than in defining exactly what the future should be. But it\u0026#8217;s also a call to action for us to reflect on what is our agency and role in shaping this future forward. A lot of that is about this new human-AI chemistry: how humans and AI are starting to coexist, starting to collaborate and sometimes collide, in shaping new realities that were really not possible years or even months ago. And as part of that, an angle which is transformative is the fact that intelligence is starting to be embedded in the world surrounding us, in the objects, in the spaces, transforming the way in which we interact and relate with them and between us as human beings.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:10] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e So the question, in a way, becomes on how we design for that, and that\u0026#8217;s going to be the topic of the conversation tonight. So designing for physical intelligence, and even starting maybe a bit back on what even physical intelligence is as maybe there are different opinions. I cannot be more excited for the panel tonight, as I have an exceptional group of speakers that join me and said yes when I asked them to join this conversation, friends and colleagues, bringing definitely different perspectives. So I welcome them on stage one by one, and share with me welcoming them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:03:45] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Tim Ensor, first, please join me here. Tim is the director of artificial intelligence at Cambridge Consultants. He is really working on understanding how that novel research in the space of artificial intelligence can be brought back into product and services and solutions that we can really practice.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:08] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Second, I\u0026#8217;ll invite Massimo Banzi. Massimo is founder of Super Moderno, has been co-founder of Arduino, and with that, enabling many of us as designers and makers to really start, you know, making things happen for real before they were even possible.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:25] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Third, Inna Lobel from our New York studio. She\u0026#8217;s leading industrial design in our North America team, but most of all, among others, also with her Nome project she\u0026#8217;s leading the way in which we think about designing for robotics. A bit of debate will be today on, is robotics, physical intelligence? What else? But definitely, that\u0026#8217;s an interesting perspective.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:04:46] Chiara Diana\u003c/strong\u003e: And last but not least, Matteo Battiston, Chief Design Officer EssilorLuxottica, whose work on AI smart eyewear is really leading the frontiers of what it means to bring physical intelligence to scale. So I\u0026#8217;m super excited. Thanks for joining me in this conversation today. I want to start with a warming up question for all of us. So we were debating this before. So when we think about physical intelligence, I tend intuitionally to think of these spectacular demos that we get back from CES where you see humanoid robotics that are crawling or dancing or even loading the dishwasher, which is definitely, maybe we feel more as a value gain. But is that the full story? Is that the place where people will feel physical intelligence first? So the question, the warm up question, and I will go in the round, will be how what do you see as something, as a tangible, concrete manifestation of physical intelligence today? And what you think is overhyped?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:05:47] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e Hi Chiara, thank you very much. This is a very exciting panel. I\u0026#8217;m looking forward to this discussion as well. So for me, first of all, physical intelligence is a branch of AI where we can have machines and AI able to understand the physical world in a way that they\u0026#8217;ve not been able to to date. And for me, the area we see that right now is us all enjoying increasingly low cost fulfillment of internet orders. Because behind the scenes, there are increasing armies of robots operating warehouses, which are a hotbed of innovation for allowing machines to understand the world in more intelligent ways. We\u0026#8217;re seeing that right now, and that is an area which will continue to to emerge and innovate in secret. Did you want to hype one as well?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:24] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e As you like.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:24] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e I think you\u0026#8217;ve already said it. So we\u0026#8217;ve seen an awful lot of exciting back flipping robots and robots going around cleaning up our homes after us. I think that\u0026#8217;s gonna be way off.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:33] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e So you\u0026#8217;re saying that the ones which is more concrete is the one that we don\u0026#8217;t see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:36] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e Today? Yes, that\u0026#8217;s right.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:06:37] Massimo Banzi:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think one of the probably most interesting application for me is when you look at sensors. So now that we can use AI with sensors, we can from very basic information, we can extract a lot of understanding about the world. And also, there are AI models that the current AI models that we all use are currently mostly working on words, on text, but the new models, they are designed to understand the physical world. And I think that combination of sensing the world and understanding it, it\u0026#8217;s probably one of the interesting things I\u0026#8217;m most interested in.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:10] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e And hold that thought for some minutes, because that\u0026#8217;s definitely one topic that we want to expand more, this topic of how do we understand the space around. Inna?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:20] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e I think an interesting application of physical AI has been the self-driving cars and Waymo and some of the kind of transportation robots that we see in the US. It\u0026#8217;s been really wonderful to see them move around the streets, and how they can signal the intent, how they allow us to interact in these new ways. The hype, I think I would agree, is the back flipping robots.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:07:45] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think the question is pretty wide. So we have been trained in defining intelligence as something that is very human, and so even when it becomes synthetic, when it becomes artificial, I think it has to keep a layer of humanity. So I don\u0026#8217;t believe in an intelligence, physical intelligence, that is here to be instead of humans, but with humans. So this is, I think, the purpose. That\u0026#8217;s why I think there is a little bit of a misconception. So there\u0026#8217;s probably where we can start debating about. I don\u0026#8217;t think this will have the shape of robots that will make things instead of us, but quietly blending into life of people with products that we really accept. So that\u0026#8217;s, I think, the best way for physical intelligence to really blend in our lives. So I believe more in small and hidden products than big humanoids that are here to replace us.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:08:41] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Personally, I would agree. I don\u0026#8217;t know if as a moderator, I should be neutral, or I can express an opinion, but I think it\u0026#8217;s definitely is about spectrum. But I think that the place where people will start to feel it first is this element of agency that is starting to infuse into our everyday life and everyday objects. But in a way, is a spectrum, right? So on one side, you were speaking about dispatching goods. I think Amazon was just announcing that they did a one millionth robot that is playing in that space. On the other side, you have these AI that is infusing all the hair dryers that you try to buy now. So if you go on Amazon, all the hair dryers have an element of artificial intelligence into that. So definitely is a spectrum.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe CEO of Nvidia was saying that the “moment” for physical intelligence, or physical AI, is now. So why? I mean, what is happening now that is different from the previous waves? What is making it being a turning point that we should consider that seriously? Tim, first of all, from an engineering perspective, is this something that is really changing, or is another moment of just buzz?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:09:49] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think Massimo was touching on this in his answer a minute ago, as is often the way, when you see these steps forward in capability, there\u0026#8217;s a number of threads which are coming together. I think the most interesting one is the emergence of different classes of AI models, which are blending together an understanding of the visual scene that they\u0026#8217;re looking at, the verbal description of that scene, or somebody asking a question about that scene, but also then including in that an element of action or reaction. There are new models emerging which bring all of those together. And that is the foundation of what we\u0026#8217;re seeing in the new robotics capability.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAlongside that, we\u0026#8217;ve seen the increasing importance of simulation capability, because, as we understand, we can\u0026#8217;t train these models on words and images from the internet. We have to train them on an experience of interacting with an environment. Now the real world is complex and messy and in some cases dangerous and expensive if you\u0026#8217;re going to train a robot. So training these actions in simulation is becoming increasingly important, and the quality of the simulations we\u0026#8217;re working with now can be made so lifelike that when you train an AI model in a simulator and then you deploy it into a real product, it behaves in the way you expect it to, as opposed to tripping over the differences between the simulator and the real world. So that simulation capability is getting to the point where we\u0026#8217;re suddenly able to get improvement in performance from robotic systems as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd I think the last one is on the hardware. And I think we\u0026#8217;ll talk about miniaturization and how you bring different hardware capabilities together, but the ability of new compute chips to run these heavyweight models, to control robots in collaboration with improvements in motor technology and battery technology and sensing technology, all of those are coming together to the fact that we\u0026#8217;re now seeing these step changes in what you can achieve with machines interacting intelligently with the physical world and the people around them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:35] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e The moment is now not because of one thing. The moment is now because there are a series of things that are happening at the same moment and together are enabling this new even scale.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:11:46] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, no, that\u0026#8217;s exactly right. With any new emergence of technology, it can appear simple. So a lot of the YouTube videos that we\u0026#8217;ve seen over the last year have largely been either robot machines, which have been following a pre-recorded script, or they\u0026#8217;ve got a puppeteer somewhere in the background who\u0026#8217;s a human directing them. And to try and understand how and where the challenges are, over the last year or so, at least a year, my team have been working in a lab with a couple of humanoids, where we\u0026#8217;ve taken them apart, put them back together, change the sensor set, learn how you train them, learn how you get them to do useful work, to really get under the skin of where is the technology curve moving? How fast is it moving? And how do we work out where the real areas of value are?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:21] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Thanks, Tim. And I mean, if we think on one side, the moment is now because technology seems to be more ready than before. On the other side, it seems that also people are a little bit more ready than before. I think we heard in the EssilorLuxottica report, if I put it right, that 7 million AI eyewear have been sold in 2025 so that means that there is demand. So why, Matteo, you think that there is demand now, and why eyewear have been the one element that has been able to bring physical intelligence into the consumer space?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:12:55] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e That resonates with the kind of sweet spot that we were touching. So technology is ready, miniaturization is close, but there is something more. So people have awareness that we can empower them with something that is little bit different from what they were used to. It\u0026#8217;s not the first time, if we think about it. So the very first branded product if we speak about glasses was back in the 80s. It was a medical device that then was turned into something that was an identity piece. So we changed the meaning of technology somehow. We are making the same leap in order to convince people that the moment is ready. How do you work with that? You work on trust. So that\u0026#8217;s why we were one of the first doing AI glasses, we were one of the first doing smart glasses. Probably we have been the first thinking that those should have been products that people would have been confident wearing. And then it\u0026#8217;s about wearing the product you are close to that somehow help you defining your identity and the way the world sees you, but with another layer that is really empowering in a different way. So that I think is the sweet spot which resonates with awareness of technology and scale, of course. So that was the fortunate angle that we try to create.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:13] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e So I\u0026#8217;ll go off script for a moment, just because your answer triggered something in my mind. Do you think that as the one of the drivers for the adoption is that you have been intersecting a sort of desire for humans to be super humans in a way?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:14:28] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe. So for sure not humanoids, just normal people with the glasses they love. That\u0026#8217;s why we started with icons. Once again, it\u0026#8217;s related to trust. You trust the iconic product that you always have been wearing. But I think a layer that was a kind of a plus—that is a that is a kind of a competition that products make with your attention. And if you think about the real estate that we are wearing when we wear this part, which is a part that is not for free. So putting a product on your face, it\u0026#8217;s not like putting on your wrist or in your pocket. So this is where your identity starts. But it\u0026#8217;s also close to your senses. It\u0026#8217;s so close to your vision. It\u0026#8217;s close to your ears, it\u0026#8217;s close to the possibility to speak and to communicate. So the idea that you can compete a little bit less with your attention, for example, in looking at a wrist or raising a telephone, that is, that was a strong benefit, and that is just the beginning of something that can be bigger and bigger than that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:25] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e We spoke about, you know, this is not the end. This is just the first step. It’s a longer trajectory of transformation and potential. Massimo, with Arduino, you brought physical computing to many people. You were enabling many people us in the first place, makers and designers, to start prototyping things that were not there yet. Where is the next wave of physical intelligence going? What are people prototyping now that we don\u0026#8217;t know yet?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:15:50] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the things that\u0026#8217;s happening is that if you look at the history of technology, there was some ideas before, there is a technology that\u0026#8217;s available, and now technology is catching up. So now you start to get very powerful processors. They use less and less power, so that you can run complex models, also on very cheap hardware. So when I started running the first machine learning models on little processors, you could do very, very basic things. Now you can run the equivalent of on a computer that can see the size of a book, and it will be the size of a tiny cube at some point. And I think this is very, very important because one of the things that I wanted everyone to be aware of is that physical intelligence is great. You see all these things that are beautiful, but it\u0026#8217;s an incredible privacy nightmare, because every time you use an AI that runs somewhere else, they are using your data. They basically feed themselves on your data. They know everything that you do. And you pay. You pay to be surveilled.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo I think one of the things in the future, this concept of local AI, it\u0026#8217;s going to be an incredible moment. I\u0026#8217;m already running my own AI server, so I don\u0026#8217;t have to go, I think, to the cloud. But I think in the future, you will be able to have a tiny server somewhere in your house that run your own AI, that one is the next thing I\u0026#8217;m really looking forward to. And yes, obviously these new AI models that understand the physical world are going to be incredibly important because understanding the physical world through language, it\u0026#8217;s not exactly the future, but you know, one of the fathers of AI is looking at this new models that really start from an understanding of the physical world, and they can actually learn. So the robot can fall down three, four times, and then suddenly start to learn by itself. Why am I falling? Can I stop falling? Current models don\u0026#8217;t really do that. So we could be talking for all, but the takeaway: privacy, be careful.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:17:58] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e So maybe shifting gears more to the role of design into that and how design is changing. With the Nome project, Inna, you have been exploring a lot about how do we understand, we are understood, and then we build relationships. Behaviors are becoming the interface by which we interact and understand these objects that are becoming intelligent. What\u0026#8217;s your take and perspective on it?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:18:20] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think that\u0026#8217;s one of the things that\u0026#8217;s been really interesting for us to think through, is kind of, how do we actually live with these objects? How do we want to bring them into our houses? Into our like human spaces? And how do we make sure that we\u0026#8217;re kind of both creating and preserving the right aspects of our culture? So with Nome, this is an R\u0026amp;D project for us, where we\u0026#8217;re thinking about, how do we bring robotics into the home. But really it\u0026#8217;s about, how do we bring robotics into human spaces? And one of the things that we did there was, first, just map out, what are some of the social interactions, what are some of the ways that we use our homes, and where do we want something that augments us? What would it mean for it to be part of the fabric there? And so it\u0026#8217;s interesting. I think behavior is one critical interface, and there\u0026#8217;s actually two interfaces, because behavior is also empowered and created through the form that it has. So we looked at those things together and really being mindful of, you know, how does this object signal to us? How do we signal to it? What are the right moments to have it kind of come into our spaces? Where should it stay back and then really thinking about the ways that we communicate with each other, and trying to tease out which ones of those might we bring to this platform so that it can be more legible? So that we can understand intentionality, and I think it\u0026#8217;s going to really go both ways.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:19:49] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e And you mentioned, I mean these signals, and this interpretation of the signals, and therefore the intent right on both sides. Because in the moment in which those entities start to get agency—and this is in the physical space, but I think in the digital applies similarly—how do you anticipate what is going to happen, which plays in an element of trust as well? So the idea that you can predict what is going to happen, reaffirming your interpretation of reality. This human-machine understanding is becoming key. We spoke about the new models that are starting to interpret the human space, the physical space, but it\u0026#8217;s also about the human and the machine itself. Tim, what is changing from an engineering perspective that is enabling this interpretation to happen? I mean, can we code empathy in a way?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:20:37] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#8217;s a really interesting and challenging space, I think, for me, for a product to respond in a way which is empathetic, somehow, without wishing to overload any of these words, it has to be able to react to the human in a way which understands the context that human is in and responds in a way which is in line with what they would expect. And this is quite hard for a machine because humans are very complex entities, as we all know. But we looked to this about three years ago, four years ago, we started a team specifically called Human-Machine Understanding, where we were bringing together psychologists and behavioral scientists with our AI engineers and our computer scientists to try and kind of grapple with this particular area. Because we could see that this was going to be a challenge that as we embodied more AI into products we would all want and expect to be able to interact with them in more naturalistic ways. At its core, from an engineering perspective, it comes down to blending different ways of sensing the world around us in intelligent ways. And some of the work I mentioned on our robotic theme is relevant, but I think it carries across to any form factors. Where we\u0026#8217;ve had an example where we\u0026#8217;re blending sensors from image, putting those through a number of different algorithmic threads to be able to understand someone\u0026#8217;s speech, be able to understand their gesture, be able to, from a view of the world, interpret a gesture as relevant to an object in the scene. We can identify the object and label it in association with the words from the human. And we can also survey the scene to kind of unpick ambiguity. So there\u0026#8217;s a great video one of our researchers who\u0026#8217;s leading this space having a conversation with the machine, where he says, “Can you move the cup over there?” And this location of the cup has to be identified over there being a reference to an object or a table, in this instance, has to be interpreted, and then the instruction gets played back again. But there\u0026#8217;s also ambiguity because, actually, there\u0026#8217;s two cups, so that the machine has to go, “Oh, actually, I need to solve this ambiguity first before I can understand how to respond effectively.” And it\u0026#8217;s just kind of a little example of what the team have been doing to try and think about: how do you bring different interaction modalities, both visual and verbal, and in a way where the machine has an understanding itself of the scene and has to work through the thinking about what does the human mean from the instruction or the interaction they\u0026#8217;ve given? And unpick that to ensure that they can respond in the most empathetic way. So it\u0026#8217;s a really, really rich and exciting area, which I would say we\u0026#8217;re just at the beginning of. But I think it\u0026#8217;s these technology pieces which enable us to design behaviors on top of them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:22:54] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e While I believe that conversational AI is fantastic, and all this kind of chat interactions with all the dimensions of life are definitely opening up the territory for novelty, but it feels like, in some moments, a regression to a way of expressing and interacting that is very intense and time consuming and very difficult to express the totality of your intentions and even emotions. I was hearing this podcast with the CEO of Airbnb, and they were discussing about, you know, disintermediation and will have everything happen to an agent. And he was saying, but try to book the apartment for your next vacation just in a verbal conversation with a chatbot—it will take ages and forever, and you\u0026#8217;ll probably not get it right in the first place. So this idea of enabling a multi-dimensional, multimodal understanding of reality, to me, is really foundational to you know, enabling what is what is possible next.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:23:48] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e I completely agree, and I think the space we\u0026#8217;re at now is trying to work out, how do we give AI machines enough embodied context to be able to respond appropriately? And as humans, we build that context up over our entire lives of interaction. And at the moment, machines don\u0026#8217;t have that ability. But I think this question about how do we create data models which allow a machine to access the context of relationships between people, relationships between a person now and events in their past, relationships between the group of people. And all of this is extraordinarily rich context, but is necessary for us all as humans to respond appropriately to each other. And I think that is the next challenge for us to get machines to respond appropriately—is to be able to collect and model that data in such a way that a machine has access to it and can then give the kind of appropriate answers. Because I can 100% agree with you, prompt engineering should not be a thing, but at the moment, it is a thing because we have to communicate with large language models in this way.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:24:45] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e You are saying that it\u0026#8217;s important for the machines and this intelligence to get the richest possible understanding of the reality surrounding them. I mean, eyewear is there, right? They are this layering between perception and the world around us, the world around us and us, and how we can then act on it. So, Matteo, I\u0026#8217;m keen to hear your perspective on what Tim shared, but also how in the moment in which you\u0026#8217;re there and continuously, I mean, how you bear with that responsibility. How do you balance discreetness? And then when is the right moment to actually act?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:25:20] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it\u0026#8217;s, I go back to what Tim was saying, and I think in this room, in a design firm, it\u0026#8217;s happening something that is we need to stop for a while and think. It\u0026#8217;s a new beginning where we are designing new objects without thinking about performances and functionalities. So the major words that we have been using is culture and behaviors, which is beautiful. So we are designing something that is really new to people, and it\u0026#8217;s something that we can design starting with the way that we really interact with the world. And this is why we feel that working, for example, in this space. It\u0026#8217;s a kind of a quintessential thing because here\u0026#8217;s where the large majority of things that happens to us start. We see them, we sense them, we hear them. And yes, there is a there is a strong responsibility when you build, and you start building and designing those behaviors, because we need care. We need care of different aspects, we need care about intention when you load a new kind of intelligence to a human body. And so we need to be sure that the intention of the gesture that you are making are the right ones. And so those things can do a lot of things, you have to do the right one at that moment. This is the first one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe second one is about being respectful of cognitive load. So we are doing things towards the world, but we are receiving a lot of data. You can be informed of things that are happening with information that are placed in the right place in the real world. Are we used to that? So we have to get there in the in the right way, in order to augment humans, not to disturb our intention.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAnd the third layer of responsibility, which still deals with what Massimo was saying, is respect to the bystanders. So we are doing things that are having an effect on people that are around us. Creating behaviors and creating services and information that are clear to the bystanders, won\u0026#8217;t solve at all what Massimo was saying, but they take it into consideration. In this fast conversation that we did before getting here on the stage, we were speaking about just one piece of technology. So if we think about a camera, for example, and we think about a camera in our garage, or we place it in our living room, or we place it in our face. We have three different way to think of that camera. So we have three different approaches, and maybe also some skeptical ones. In a garage it\u0026#8217;s very simple. In my living room, what is happening? On my face, what can you see that I\u0026#8217;m seeing? So that\u0026#8217;s the responsibility we have when we design, taking care of privacy at the very beginning and at the core of every product, which I think it\u0026#8217;s a layer that it\u0026#8217;s not skippable when you start designing. It\u0026#8217;s a first layer. So this is the first thing you design.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:28:13] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e We discussed a lot about before about compromises and constraints in the journey towards bringing, you know, this intelligence to scale. How do you deal in the moment in which you have these ambitions and priorities on trust and behavior, but on the other side, you have elements of constraints and compromises that needs to be made in order to meet the next milestone?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:28:37] Matteo Battiston:\u003c/strong\u003e That\u0026#8217;s the new skills of designers. So you don\u0026#8217;t just deal with shapes and with materials. Anytime that we you make a choice, it\u0026#8217;s a choice that is trading off with something else. You want two hours more function, and then you deal with two three millimeters on your face, or you want another function, and then you have to drop another one, or you have to add a lot of expense in terms of investment to have new batteries, new harvesting, new whatever. So it\u0026#8217;s a complete and ongoing tradeoff between function and acceptability of people. Because, once again, and I\u0026#8217;m just thinking about something that goes on our body, not always on a face. It\u0026#8217;s your body. So you are not a carrier. So it\u0026#8217;s a product that has to suit you. And so that\u0026#8217;s a real challenge when we design. It\u0026#8217;s a complete new set of know-how that a designer has to have, because the level every designer describes himself or herself like a curious person, the level of curiosity that you need to have has to go skyrocketing—because you have to deal with electricity, you have to deal with the connectors, you have to deal with magnetic powers. So, it\u0026#8217;s not just about a ship that you move with a chassis around something, especially when it\u0026#8217;s when you are in on such a complex real estate like on your face. So yes, it\u0026#8217;s a complete trade off every minute.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:30:04] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Massimo, you had a perspective on the constraints as a way, I mean, even as a matter for design. I mean, we live with tradeoffs. We design with constraints. What\u0026#8217;s the role of constraints in designing? And specifically, when we think about intelligence getting physical?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:30:21] Massimo Banzi:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, so I think one of the aspects of design is very interesting, is that the constraints, sometimes they make you very creative. The fact that you have to work around the constraint is actually what gives you sometimes ideas that are not conventional, because if you had all the money in the world and all the things in the world, you would, you know, when I made the first Arduino, my constraint was it had to cost 20 euros. So I had to take away everything—it was like the Model T Ford. It\u0026#8217;s a product that still sells now, ridiculous. But one of the other constraints, to me is very important, as I teach interaction design. So the first constraint between multiple quotes should be human beings. So we do user-centered design. So for us, the wellbeing of the person that we are designing for should be one of the main constraints. Unless you\u0026#8217;re designing bombs, that\u0026#8217;s a different story. But for all the other products, the person should be at the center. And I always thought that even in technology, a lot of times when we try to design things and we have constraints, you mentioned it, you know, sometimes it\u0026#8217;s power, you know, can you live with, like a bigger object for that tiny bit? So that those constraints, sometimes, they’re where you come up with the great idea, which I think it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s good. I love constraints. They make my life simpler.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:31:34] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think that then with these new layers that you were referring to, you know, these new dimensions, new variables that we need to consider, and this new curiosity that we need to have, do you think that the process of design needs to change compared to what we have today? If I think about the horizons of, or, speed of bringing an innovation to reality, if you think of a digital solution now, you can do that in a week in a few months ago, you can do that in three months. But if you think of a cycle of producing something, you know, physical object is completely another timeline. Shall we change our design process because of this new interplay?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:32:10] Massimo Banzi:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, obviously your design process is going to change a little bit, because now the variables you have to look at. So when you\u0026#8217;re designing a chair, there were a certain number of things you have to take care of, but if the chair starts to have a bunch of sensors, there is an AI, there\u0026#8217;s a bunch of different constraints, obviously, the way you organize your work, the workflow, the people you need to bring in, the fact that you know, if I look at my students, obviously, many years ago, they were mostly concerned about some aspects of the project. Now, my students in the master of interaction design, they do AI, they use AI as a tool, but also they understand AI as a material for building something. The number of things they need to keep in their mind, and they need to create some kind of a coherent vision starts to, you know, increases quite a lot understanding what kind of sensing can we add to this thing so that it understands the world, it understands people? So I think the process becomes much more sophisticated. And when you\u0026#8217;re making something physical, it’s ten times more complicated. Because, you know, in software, if your computer blows up, you go to Media World, you buy another one, it\u0026#8217;s fine. But if you are building, you know, a very sophisticated piece of hardware, software, and your prototype blows up the night before you\u0026#8217;re supposed to show it, which probably happened to you a few times? It\u0026#8217;s not random that in the US, they say “hardware is hard.” It\u0026#8217;s hard for a reason.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:36] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e Inna, how many objects have you broken before going live at the NVIDIA event?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:42] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e It definitely happens. Usually it works perfectly, until you have to show it, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:48] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e You have been experimenting a lot in this space. In frog as probably one of the most experimental. I mean, what can you bring?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:33:56] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think, you know, one thing which is true is I feel like the fundamentals are really important. And that\u0026#8217;s something that, you know, we always kind of come back to is: what is the context that we\u0026#8217;re designing for? How do we prototype really quickly with cardboard so that we can get the ideas out and get a better sense for what to do? Because hardware is hard. Every iteration that you make takes a while to prototype, and I think we\u0026#8217;re being really mindful of that right now with physical AI also, because now as the complexity of what we\u0026#8217;re designing increases, making a prototype that works is also exponentially increasing. In order to build a simulation of something, the definition that you have to give to a hardware product, takes time to define in appropriate ways. So we\u0026#8217;ve been experimenting with new formats, for example, leveraging VR, leveraging the gaming and Unity, and the types of kind of interactive media that exists to see, okay, well, maybe we can take physical AI and robotics, and before we do all of the hard work on the engineering side, we can start to interact with these systems in a digital way as a bridge to gaining confidence that, yes, that\u0026#8217;s what we want to be doing. You know, this is the way we want to be interacting with it that kind of feeds back into what the sensor set is that we need. Really looking at ways that we can collapse the process, gain more confidence in what we\u0026#8217;re doing, and build that bridge across the various parts of the design process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:35:34] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e On the other side, Tim. When you when you look from outside, you think, these designers, they come with the ideas, but it\u0026#8217;s never feasible. How are you thinking of the engineering process evolving in this context?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:35:45] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e We always value the multidisciplinary leader and the multidisciplinary team, and that system thinking is something which we have to grapple with every day. And we have our core as an engineering team, but we have some designers, and we work with the frog team a lot. So the breadth of what you need as a set of disciplines, I think is expanding. And the more complex the products that you\u0026#8217;re building, the more complex and experience you\u0026#8217;re trying to create, the more disciplines you need to be able to either have both in the team, and have in your mind.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSome really interesting examples that say, I come back to the robotics example because it\u0026#8217;s something I\u0026#8217;ve been working on for the last year with my team, but it\u0026#8217;s also really interesting because of the richness of expression you can get. We chose humanoids as our experimental platform because they\u0026#8217;re the most complex. You know, they have 26 degrees of freedom in their movement before you even get to the hands. And so that is really interesting. So a couple of design choices that we\u0026#8217;ve seen recently. So Boston Dynamics new humanoid robot, they decided to make it have 360 degree rotation. So it can walk forwards, rotate its entire body 180 degrees and walk backwards without moving its legs around to walk backwards. Its head will rotate like an owl. So they\u0026#8217;ve had engineering choices which have implications for the way people interact with it, and the way in which you the design space you\u0026#8217;ve got to deal with. But then I also look at the things that Disney have done in their robotics, which they have been so deliberate in designing the personality. And it\u0026#8217;s a personality as expressed through physicality of the of the device.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBut what\u0026#8217;s interesting about AI is its amazing capability to generalize, which means that you show it one example, you train it one thing, and it responds appropriately in an example you haven\u0026#8217;t trained it for. And so what that means is those designers have had to deliberately create the personality for the robot moving in a certain way, but then in the real world, didn\u0026#8217;t move in some other ways. And it\u0026#8217;ll take the characteristics of how you\u0026#8217;ve trained it for this thing and it will express it in a way you didn\u0026#8217;t train it for. And so we\u0026#8217;re getting all of these additional dimensions of building learning systems into products, which is a whole other way, I think, that the design community needs to be thinking about okay, I designed it for this, but my AI is going to generalize it in another way which I didn\u0026#8217;t design it for. We may not have tested it for. And the AI will represent it in the way that it chooses to. So understanding how that AI system is built from the ground up is a is another dimension of design understanding.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:00] Inna Lobel:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I love that you use the word personality, because that\u0026#8217;s what we\u0026#8217;ve been thinking about as well. And kind of one of the things that we\u0026#8217;ve been doing in designing these products that have motion, is right away thinking about the motion signature and building out kind of the character palette so that you can do something like that. And you start thinking about, what are the different ways we might want to interact with it, and how does that mean it\u0026#8217;s going to kind of come to life in the systems? I think it\u0026#8217;s such an interesting space.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:38:31] Tim Ensor:\u003c/strong\u003e If I can build on that, it\u0026#8217;s also really interesting that you have to be deliberate about the things you think are obvious. So I had a really interesting conversation with some of the guys at Boston Dynamics, and their first product was the dog robot, and they trained it to go and inspect something and come back again. But because they trained it for utility, it just walked forwards and it looks up and then it walked backwards, and everyone looked at wend “a dog doesn\u0026#8217;t do that.” So the assumption that people bring because of the form factor you\u0026#8217;ve used means that you need to go, well, people aren\u0026#8217;t going to like that, not because it\u0026#8217;s not following the utility of the job you\u0026#8217;ve asked it to do, but because people have a preconception about the form factor and the personality you need to give it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:39:04] Chiara Diana:\u003c/strong\u003e I think we all feel a bit of this tension of being, you know, on the edge and, I mean, are we jumping, or are we not? We feel this tension every day, every announcement that we read, it\u0026#8217;s a little bit more jumping into the unknown. But I think that’s the part that is very fascinating to me. It feels like, when we got the first wave of digital I started design at school for industrial design. It was not, you know, anything else. And these digital things started to come up, and it felt like we are writing something that is completely new and that was fascinating. Now I feel it\u0026#8217;s another wave of like that. So we are jumping into something that is completely new, all to be written, all to be, you know, scribed. And I think that that\u0026#8217;s because in this discourse, there is a role and an important role for design. So with this said, I thank you all. I thank you panelists for staying with me. Thanks so much, also for the conversations before. I thank you all for being with us. Stay with us little longer. So enjoy the exhibits. Some are a bit provocative on some of the topics that we covered. Get a drink. Keep connecting with people, and enjoy your time with frog. Thanks for coming.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e[00:40:15] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download frog’s Futurescape report.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe really want to thank our guests and the team at frog Milan for sharing their insights from Milan Design Week.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/\"\u003efrog.co\u003c/a\u003e. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"id":86210,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","filesize":77251,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85084,"date":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","modified":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-300x287.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":287,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-768x735.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-1024x980.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":613,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","1536X1536Width":1268,"1536X1536Height":1214,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","2048X2048Width":1268,"2048X2048Height":1214}},"description":"For more on how AI is bending the limits of our physical and digital worlds, download our latest frog report ‘Futurescape: Artificial Realities.’  ","reportLink":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry","type":"internal"}},{"acfFcLayout":"vimeo_block","vimeoId":"1193323834","placeholderImage":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/milan-design-week-2026-cover-video.jpg","title":"","description":"","fullWidth":true,"videoFile":false,"duration":{"hours":"","minutes":"","seconds":""},"schemaTitle":"","schemaDescription":""},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"slug":"chiara-diana","authorName":"Chiara Diana","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGlobal design and innovation leader, Chiara brings over 20 years of experience shaping futureproof products and services for multinational organizations, with a sustained focus on healthcare since joining frog in 2010. 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the Playbook for Agentic AI","description":"An exploration of why traditional automation playbooks fall short for agentic AI, and what it takes to adopt, govern, and scale it responsibly.","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eMany organizations rush to prototype with AI agents, experimenting with small tasks. But these experiments often stay stuck as disconnected demos, disjointed from real project flow, lacking the context, controls, and documentation needed to produce meaningful outcomes. The leap from prototype to production is a chasm, not a step. Crossing it doesn’t require bravery, it requires an adoption playbook that turns risk into repeatable practice.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is a subject we at frog recently explored in \u003ca href=\"https://www.weforum.org/publications/ai-agents-in-action-foundations-for-evaluation-and-governance/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e‘AI Agents in Action: Foundations for Evaluation and Governance’\u003c/a\u003e, a joint white paper produced by the World Economic Forum in collaboration with Capgemini.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI agents are being pitched as productivity accelerators. They can plan, decide, and act across systems without waiting for a human to supervise every step. With their ability to take action, use tools, and operate under uncertainty, AI agents are unlike any preceding innovation. They work at a pace and scale that breaks traditional oversight, so governance can’t be an afterthought.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat’s why we advocate progressive governance: practical “speedbumps” embedded in workflows that include clear guardrails, verification points, escalation rules, and human approvals at the moments that matter. The goal is not to slow agents down. It’s to let them run safely inside organizational boundaries.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBusiness leaders want to lead AI agent adoption and gain a competitive advantage. But leaders cannot treat deployment like a race because agent failure modes can escalate fast: brand damage, financial loss, security exposure, and in some settings, physical impact. A new playbook is needed that is fundamentally different from traditional software rollout. It requires an operating model of progressive governance that is one part IT, one part risk, one part people leadership that continuously improves performance while keeping agents set with the minimum authority required to do the job.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eReal transformation won’t come from clever agent demos. It comes from giving AI agents real context: an understanding of how work gets done, access to the right trusted data (and no more than necessary), and continuous feedback from human experts. Only then can agents move from tools to true collaborators embedded in the fabric of the organization.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMaking that shift requires a new mindset around governance: progressive, shared, and operational. This isn’t something a single team or function can “own.” Every role has a stake in how agents are designed, deployed, and held accountable. The real question isn’t “can we build agents?” It’s “are we ready to run them?”\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhy AI agents change the risk equation\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI agents are not simply more capable chatbots. Using a combination of models, tools, memory, and systems access, AI agents can plan, decide, and act toward goals. But it is their ability to do all this with minimal supervision that makes them so unique.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/next-gen-contact-centers-powered-by-ai\"\u003ecustomer support\u003c/a\u003e, an AI agent can autonomously resolve cases end‑to‑end. In marketing, an AI agent can turn data into hyper‑personalized content. In \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/empowering-frontline-retail-workers-with-ai\"\u003ehospitality\u003c/a\u003e, an AI agent can summarize staffing gaps and predict seasonal booking based on data. In scientific research, an AI agent can deconstruct a question, search multiple sources, and synthesize recommendations without step‑by‑step guidance. And that autonomy is exactly what makes the stakes higher.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter\" style=\"margin-bottom: 15px;\" src=\"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-Graphic-scaled.jpg\" width=\"640\" height=\"auto\" /\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nFigure 1: Software architecture of an AI agent\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003cspan style=\"font-size: 14px;\"\u003eSource: \u003ca style=\"font-size: 14px;\" href=\"https://www.weforum.org/publications/ai-agents-in-action-foundations-for-evaluation-and-governance/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eAI Agents in Action: Foundations for Evaluation and Governance | World Economic Forum\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003eThis shift from “model” to “agent” matters because it changes the risk profile. Agents can misuse tools, drift from intended goals, or interact unpredictably with other agents. They operate in environments that are often dynamic, incomplete, and uncertain.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThat’s the trade: agents move closer to real work, and real work is messy. You get speed and coverage, but also drift, edge‑cases, and compounding errors if oversight isn’t designed in. And yet, adoption is accelerating. \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Final-Web-Version-Report-Gen-AI-in-Organization-Refresh.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eMany organizations plan to integrate AI agents within the next one to three years\u003c/a\u003e. Most efforts today are still pilots which is precisely why now is the moment to set the rules before the rules are set by accidents.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe mistake leaders risk making\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe most common failure mode is not technical; it is organizational. Many companies approach AI agents the way they approached previous automation: deploy quickly, restrict access, and assume governance can be solidified later. But agents are not static systems. They behave differently depending on context, autonomy, authority, and environment. Governance models designed for traditional software (e.g., focused on uptime and access control) are no longer sufficient.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA useful analogy is hiring. When a person joins an organization, they are not given full authority on day one. They are assigned a role, trained, observed, and gradually entrusted with more responsibility. Performance is evaluated continuously, not just at onboarding. AI agents deserve the same discipline: scope, training, evaluation, and progressive trust.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"numbered_section_block","title":"A practical adoption framework (what leaders can do now)","description":"Successful integration of AI agents follows a simple but rigorous progression. While the underlying technology is complex, the leadership questions are not. The key foundations for AI agent evaluation and governance are (1) define the job, (2) evaluate in real work, (3) manage risk continuously, and (4) scale governance with impact. Let’s examine them in greater detail. ","numbered_sections":[{"title":"Set guardrails before you hit deploy","content":"\u003cp\u003eBefore asking what an agent \u003cem\u003ecan\u003c/em\u003e do, leaders must decide what it \u003cem\u003eshould\u003c/em\u003e do. A practical starting point is to define the agent across a small set of dimensions:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"margin-top: 20px;\"\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFunction\u003c/strong\u003e: What task does it perform?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eRole\u003c/strong\u003e: Is it narrowly specialized or broadly general?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAutonomy\u003c/strong\u003e: Can it act independently, or only on request?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAuthority\u003c/strong\u003e: What systems, data, or actions is it allowed to access?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePredictability\u003c/strong\u003e: Does it behave deterministically or probabilistically?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOperational context\u003c/strong\u003e: Is the environment simple and stable, or complex and dynamic?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThese choices are not inherent to the technology — they are leadership and design decisions. Two organizations can deploy the same agent in radically different ways, with very different risk profiles.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLeaders who skip this step often discover too late that an agent’s authority or autonomy exceeds what the organization is prepared to oversee. If you can’t explain an agent’s job and boundaries in one minute, it’s not ready for production.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Evaluate agents in workflows—not demos","content":"\u003cp\u003eAI agents cannot be evaluated the same way as static models. Traditional benchmarks measure accuracy on predefined tasks. Agents, by contrast, must be assessed as systems operating over time. Effective evaluation focuses on questions such as:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"margin-top: 20px;\"\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eReliability\u003c/strong\u003e: Does the agent reliably complete tasks end-to-end?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eRationality\u003c/strong\u003e: How does it behave when inputs are ambiguous or incomplete?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAdaptability\u003c/strong\u003e: Can it recover from errors or unexpected conditions?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGovernance\u003c/strong\u003e: How often does it escalate to humans, and why?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTrust\u003c/strong\u003e: Do users trust its outputs enough to rely on them?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere, metrics matter: task success rate, completion time, error types, tool‑call success, escalation frequency, and rollback rate. If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it. Agents should be piloted in sandbox environments that mirror real workflows before being exposed to live systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eEvaluation must continue beyond deployment. As data, tools, and workflows change, agent behavior changes too—so monitoring and re‑validation are non‑negotiable.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Treat risk as continuous work (not a gate)","content":"\u003cp\u003eRisk does not disappear once an agent passes testing. Organizations need a living risk process that links:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"margin-top: 20px;\"\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe agent’s design choices (e.g., autonomy, authority, and context)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eEvidence from evaluation and monitoring\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eClear thresholds for acceptable behavior\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eClear ownership: who is accountable when it fails\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA highly autonomous agent operating in a complex environment requires stronger safeguards than a deterministic agent performing a narrow task. This is not about avoiding risk altogether, but about making it explicit, measurable, and manageable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eImportantly, risk assessment must include organizational and ecosystem risks (e.g., data exposure, regulatory compliance, and interactions with other agents), not just technical failure modes. If agents can act across systems, risk can cascade across systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Scale governance progressively with impact","content":"\u003cp\u003eOne of the most powerful insights for leaders is that governance should scale with impact. Low‑risk agents may require basic safeguards:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"margin-top: 20px;\"\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLeast-privilege access\u003c/strong\u003e: The AI agent is only permitted to perform its assigned task.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAudit logs\u003c/strong\u003e: Tamper-proof records of what, when, and how the AI agent acted.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eHuman-override mechanisms\u003c/strong\u003e: The crucial ability for human operators to pause, stop, and roll back AI agents.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs autonomy and authority increase, governance must evolve to include stronger verification, more frequent review, adaptive permissions, and explicit accountability.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHuman oversight remains central. In high‑impact settings, human‑in‑the‑loop means agents propose actions but do not execute without approval. In more stable contexts, human‑on‑the‑loop means agents act within boundaries while humans monitor and intervene when necessary.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe goal is to increase speed safely: so users trust it, leaders can defend it, and regulators don’t become your operating model.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eFrom isolated agents to agentic ecosystems\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMuch of what has been discussed concerns the implementation of individual agents for specific purposes: customer service, finance, research, etc. For many organizations, that is where exploration stops. But the real gains emerge when you move from the singular to the plural: multi‑agent ecosystems that begin to connect work across the organization.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs agents begin to collaborate, transact, and negotiate across teams, vendors, and organizations, new possibilities open up alongside new considerations. These systems must navigate shared goals, dependencies, and handoffs in environments where no single team has full visibility or control.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStandardizing interaction doesn’t guarantee safety, but it does create a foundation for scale. Without boundaries on authority, verification of intent, and human‑level governance, ecosystems can propagate errors as efficiently as they propagate value. With those elements in place, they can also unlock speed, resilience, and entirely new ways of working.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTreat agent‑to‑agent connections as an organizational interface, not just a technical integration, by putting explicit constraints, monitoring, and accountable ownership in place. Leaders who thoughtfully approach classification, evaluation, and governance are far better positioned to harness the opportunity of agentic ecosystems while staying in control. In doing so, they create the conditions for complexity to become an advantage, not a liability.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":85597,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2026-01-26 17:13:55","post_date_gmt":"2026-01-26 17:13:55","post_content":"","post_title":"Jason De Perro","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"jason-de-perro","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-05-04 23:42:31","post_modified_gmt":"2026-05-04 23:42:31","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frog.co/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=85597","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Jason De Perro","bio":"\u003cp\u003eJason De Perro is a Human–AI Collaboration Director at frog and a World Economic Forum Fellow with the AI Governance Alliance. He is a researcher and designer of AI agent systems, focusing on adoption, governance, and trust at scale. With over 15 years of experience leading teams at Apple, Capital One, and frog, Jason helps organizations design human‑centered AI systems that integrate responsibly into real‑world workflows while preserving transparency, fairness, and human agency.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Director Human-AI Collaboration frog, NA","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":86618,"id":86618,"title":"Jason-De-Perro-author","filename":"Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","filesize":100061,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jason-de-perro/attachment/jason-de-perro-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jason-de-perro-author","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":85597,"date":"2026-04-15 17:58:21","modified":"2026-04-15 17:58:21","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":801,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author-300x300.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author-768x769.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":641,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":641,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","1536x1536-width":800,"1536x1536-height":801,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","2048x2048-width":800,"2048x2048-height":801}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jason-de-perro/"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true}],"if_related":{"image":{"ID":86610,"id":86610,"title":"WEFxAI_share_image","filename":"WEFxAI_share_image.png","filesize":539982,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai/attachment/wefxai_share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"wefxai_share_image","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":85595,"date":"2026-04-15 17:37:33","modified":"2026-04-15 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the Playbook for Agentic AI"},"featured_articles":{"eyebrow":"Related work","use_home_data":false,"articles":[{"title":"Next-Gen Contact Centers: Powered by AI","description":"Article","image":{"ID":85364,"id":85364,"title":"AI_Customer_Service_Transformation_share_image","filename":"AI_Customer_Service_Transformation_share_image.jpg","filesize":213356,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/AI_Customer_Service_Transformation_share_image.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/next-gen-contact-centers-powered-by-ai/attachment/ai_customer_service_transformation_share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"ai_customer_service_transformation_share_image","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":85089,"date":"2025-12-17 17:30:59","modified":"2025-12-17 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AI-Empowered Marketer","description":"Article","image":{"ID":85219,"id":85219,"title":"The-AI-Empowered-Marketer-header2","filename":"The-AI-Empowered-Marketer-header2.gif","filesize":23953435,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/The-AI-Empowered-Marketer-header2.gif","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-ai-empowered-marketer/attachment/the-ai-empowered-marketer-header2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"the-ai-empowered-marketer-header2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":85105,"date":"2025-12-09 17:51:09","modified":"2025-12-09 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17:31:47","modified":"2026-04-15 17:31:47","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_Header_Animation-150x150.gif","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_Header_Animation-300x115.gif","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_Header_Animation-768x294.gif","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_Header_Animation-1024x393.gif","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_Header_Animation.gif","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":552,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_Header_Animation.gif","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":552}},"videoFile":false,"title":"Rewriting the Playbook for Agentic AI","description":"An exploration of why traditional automation playbooks fall short for agentic AI, and what it takes to adopt, govern, and scale it responsibly.","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eMany organizations rush to prototype with AI agents, experimenting with small tasks. But these experiments often stay stuck as disconnected demos, disjointed from real project flow, lacking the context, controls, and documentation needed to produce meaningful outcomes. The leap from prototype to production is a chasm, not a step. Crossing it doesn’t require bravery, it requires an adoption playbook that turns risk into repeatable practice.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis is a subject we at frog recently explored in \u003ca href=\"https://www.weforum.org/publications/ai-agents-in-action-foundations-for-evaluation-and-governance/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e‘AI Agents in Action: Foundations for Evaluation and Governance’\u003c/a\u003e, a joint white paper produced by the World Economic Forum in collaboration with Capgemini.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI agents are being pitched as productivity accelerators. They can plan, decide, and act across systems without waiting for a human to supervise every step. With their ability to take action, use tools, and operate under uncertainty, AI agents are unlike any preceding innovation. They work at a pace and scale that breaks traditional oversight, so governance can’t be an afterthought.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThat’s why we advocate progressive governance: practical “speedbumps” embedded in workflows that include clear guardrails, verification points, escalation rules, and human approvals at the moments that matter. The goal is not to slow agents down. It’s to let them run safely inside organizational boundaries.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eBusiness leaders want to lead AI agent adoption and gain a competitive advantage. But leaders cannot treat deployment like a race because agent failure modes can escalate fast: brand damage, financial loss, security exposure, and in some settings, physical impact. A new playbook is needed that is fundamentally different from traditional software rollout. It requires an operating model of progressive governance that is one part IT, one part risk, one part people leadership that continuously improves performance while keeping agents set with the minimum authority required to do the job.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eReal transformation won’t come from clever agent demos. It comes from giving AI agents real context: an understanding of how work gets done, access to the right trusted data (and no more than necessary), and continuous feedback from human experts. Only then can agents move from tools to true collaborators embedded in the fabric of the organization.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMaking that shift requires a new mindset around governance: progressive, shared, and operational. This isn’t something a single team or function can “own.” Every role has a stake in how agents are designed, deployed, and held accountable. The real question isn’t “can we build agents?” It’s “are we ready to run them?”\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eWhy AI agents change the risk equation\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAI agents are not simply more capable chatbots. Using a combination of models, tools, memory, and systems access, AI agents can plan, decide, and act toward goals. But it is their ability to do all this with minimal supervision that makes them so unique.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/next-gen-contact-centers-powered-by-ai\"\u003ecustomer support\u003c/a\u003e, an AI agent can autonomously resolve cases end‑to‑end. In marketing, an AI agent can turn data into hyper‑personalized content. In \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/empowering-frontline-retail-workers-with-ai\"\u003ehospitality\u003c/a\u003e, an AI agent can summarize staffing gaps and predict seasonal booking based on data. In scientific research, an AI agent can deconstruct a question, search multiple sources, and synthesize recommendations without step‑by‑step guidance. And that autonomy is exactly what makes the stakes higher.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter\" style=\"margin-bottom: 15px;\" src=\"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-Graphic-scaled.jpg\" width=\"640\" height=\"auto\" /\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\nFigure 1: Software architecture of an AI agent\u003cbr /\u003e\n\u003cspan style=\"font-size: 14px;\"\u003eSource: \u003ca style=\"font-size: 14px;\" href=\"https://www.weforum.org/publications/ai-agents-in-action-foundations-for-evaluation-and-governance/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eAI Agents in Action: Foundations for Evaluation and Governance | World Economic Forum\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003eThis shift from “model” to “agent” matters because it changes the risk profile. Agents can misuse tools, drift from intended goals, or interact unpredictably with other agents. They operate in environments that are often dynamic, incomplete, and uncertain.\u003cbr /\u003e\nThat’s the trade: agents move closer to real work, and real work is messy. You get speed and coverage, but also drift, edge‑cases, and compounding errors if oversight isn’t designed in. And yet, adoption is accelerating. \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Final-Web-Version-Report-Gen-AI-in-Organization-Refresh.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eMany organizations plan to integrate AI agents within the next one to three years\u003c/a\u003e. Most efforts today are still pilots which is precisely why now is the moment to set the rules before the rules are set by accidents.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe mistake leaders risk making\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe most common failure mode is not technical; it is organizational. Many companies approach AI agents the way they approached previous automation: deploy quickly, restrict access, and assume governance can be solidified later. But agents are not static systems. They behave differently depending on context, autonomy, authority, and environment. Governance models designed for traditional software (e.g., focused on uptime and access control) are no longer sufficient.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA useful analogy is hiring. When a person joins an organization, they are not given full authority on day one. They are assigned a role, trained, observed, and gradually entrusted with more responsibility. Performance is evaluated continuously, not just at onboarding. AI agents deserve the same discipline: scope, training, evaluation, and progressive trust.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"numbered_section_block","title":"A practical adoption framework (what leaders can do now)","description":"Successful integration of AI agents follows a simple but rigorous progression. While the underlying technology is complex, the leadership questions are not. The key foundations for AI agent evaluation and governance are (1) define the job, (2) evaluate in real work, (3) manage risk continuously, and (4) scale governance with impact. Let’s examine them in greater detail. ","numberedSections":[{"title":"Set guardrails before you hit deploy","content":"\u003cp\u003eBefore asking what an agent \u003cem\u003ecan\u003c/em\u003e do, leaders must decide what it \u003cem\u003eshould\u003c/em\u003e do. A practical starting point is to define the agent across a small set of dimensions:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"margin-top: 20px;\"\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFunction\u003c/strong\u003e: What task does it perform?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eRole\u003c/strong\u003e: Is it narrowly specialized or broadly general?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAutonomy\u003c/strong\u003e: Can it act independently, or only on request?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAuthority\u003c/strong\u003e: What systems, data, or actions is it allowed to access?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePredictability\u003c/strong\u003e: Does it behave deterministically or probabilistically?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOperational context\u003c/strong\u003e: Is the environment simple and stable, or complex and dynamic?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThese choices are not inherent to the technology — they are leadership and design decisions. Two organizations can deploy the same agent in radically different ways, with very different risk profiles.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLeaders who skip this step often discover too late that an agent’s authority or autonomy exceeds what the organization is prepared to oversee. If you can’t explain an agent’s job and boundaries in one minute, it’s not ready for production.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Evaluate agents in workflows—not demos","content":"\u003cp\u003eAI agents cannot be evaluated the same way as static models. Traditional benchmarks measure accuracy on predefined tasks. Agents, by contrast, must be assessed as systems operating over time. Effective evaluation focuses on questions such as:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"margin-top: 20px;\"\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eReliability\u003c/strong\u003e: Does the agent reliably complete tasks end-to-end?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eRationality\u003c/strong\u003e: How does it behave when inputs are ambiguous or incomplete?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAdaptability\u003c/strong\u003e: Can it recover from errors or unexpected conditions?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGovernance\u003c/strong\u003e: How often does it escalate to humans, and why?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTrust\u003c/strong\u003e: Do users trust its outputs enough to rely on them?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHere, metrics matter: task success rate, completion time, error types, tool‑call success, escalation frequency, and rollback rate. If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it. Agents should be piloted in sandbox environments that mirror real workflows before being exposed to live systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eEvaluation must continue beyond deployment. As data, tools, and workflows change, agent behavior changes too—so monitoring and re‑validation are non‑negotiable.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Treat risk as continuous work (not a gate)","content":"\u003cp\u003eRisk does not disappear once an agent passes testing. Organizations need a living risk process that links:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"margin-top: 20px;\"\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe agent’s design choices (e.g., autonomy, authority, and context)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eEvidence from evaluation and monitoring\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eClear thresholds for acceptable behavior\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eClear ownership: who is accountable when it fails\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eA highly autonomous agent operating in a complex environment requires stronger safeguards than a deterministic agent performing a narrow task. This is not about avoiding risk altogether, but about making it explicit, measurable, and manageable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eImportantly, risk assessment must include organizational and ecosystem risks (e.g., data exposure, regulatory compliance, and interactions with other agents), not just technical failure modes. If agents can act across systems, risk can cascade across systems.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Scale governance progressively with impact","content":"\u003cp\u003eOne of the most powerful insights for leaders is that governance should scale with impact. Low‑risk agents may require basic safeguards:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cul style=\"margin-top: 20px;\"\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLeast-privilege access\u003c/strong\u003e: The AI agent is only permitted to perform its assigned task.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAudit logs\u003c/strong\u003e: Tamper-proof records of what, when, and how the AI agent acted.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eHuman-override mechanisms\u003c/strong\u003e: The crucial ability for human operators to pause, stop, and roll back AI agents.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs autonomy and authority increase, governance must evolve to include stronger verification, more frequent review, adaptive permissions, and explicit accountability.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHuman oversight remains central. In high‑impact settings, human‑in‑the‑loop means agents propose actions but do not execute without approval. In more stable contexts, human‑on‑the‑loop means agents act within boundaries while humans monitor and intervene when necessary.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe goal is to increase speed safely: so users trust it, leaders can defend it, and regulators don’t become your operating model.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eFrom isolated agents to agentic ecosystems\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMuch of what has been discussed concerns the implementation of individual agents for specific purposes: customer service, finance, research, etc. For many organizations, that is where exploration stops. But the real gains emerge when you move from the singular to the plural: multi‑agent ecosystems that begin to connect work across the organization.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs agents begin to collaborate, transact, and negotiate across teams, vendors, and organizations, new possibilities open up alongside new considerations. These systems must navigate shared goals, dependencies, and handoffs in environments where no single team has full visibility or control.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eStandardizing interaction doesn’t guarantee safety, but it does create a foundation for scale. Without boundaries on authority, verification of intent, and human‑level governance, ecosystems can propagate errors as efficiently as they propagate value. With those elements in place, they can also unlock speed, resilience, and entirely new ways of working.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTreat agent‑to‑agent connections as an organizational interface, not just a technical integration, by putting explicit constraints, monitoring, and accountable ownership in place. Leaders who thoughtfully approach classification, evaluation, and governance are far better positioned to harness the opportunity of agentic ecosystems while staying in control. In doing so, they create the conditions for complexity to become an advantage, not a liability.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"jason-de-perro","authorName":"Jason De Perro","bio":"\u003cp\u003eJason De Perro is a Human–AI Collaboration Director at frog and a World Economic Forum Fellow with the AI Governance Alliance. He is a researcher and designer of AI agent systems, focusing on adoption, governance, and trust at scale. With over 15 years of experience leading teams at Apple, Capital One, and frog, Jason helps organizations design human‑centered AI systems that integrate responsibly into real‑world workflows while preserving transparency, fairness, and human agency.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Director Human-AI Collaboration frog, NA","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":86618,"title":"Jason-De-Perro-author","filename":"Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","filesize":100061,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jason-de-perro/attachment/jason-de-perro-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jason-de-perro-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85597,"date":"2026-04-15 17:58:21","modified":"2026-04-15 17:58:21","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":800,"height":801,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author-300x300.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author-768x769.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":641,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":641,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","1536X1536Width":800,"1536X1536Height":801,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Jason-De-Perro-author.jpg","2048X2048Width":800,"2048X2048Height":801}}}]},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true}],"ifRelated":{"image":{"id":86610,"title":"WEFxAI_share_image","filename":"WEFxAI_share_image.png","filesize":539982,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/WEFxAI_share_image.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/rewriting-the-playbook-for-agentic-ai/attachment/wefxai_share_image/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"wefxai_share_image","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85595,"date":"2026-04-15 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14:58:07","modified":"2026-04-22 14:58:07","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-150x150.gif","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-300x115.gif","medium-width":300,"medium-height":115,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-768x294.gif","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-1024x393.gif","large-width":640,"large-height":246,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header.gif","1536x1536-width":1440,"1536x1536-height":552,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header.gif","2048x2048-width":1440,"2048x2048-height":552}},"video_file":false,"title":"The Consumerization of Care","description":"Shifting from an institutional system of care delivery to a more intuitive, human-centered consumer experience.","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eTuesday: 7:47 AM\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMaya is making coffee. She adjusts her headband. But this is no mere hair accessory. Its transcranial electrical stimulation put an end to her premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD) long ago. Stirring the cup, she barely remembers the debilitating pain, depressive mood swings. Her phone lights up. DoorDash is on its way: salmon, leafy greens, dark chocolate. Her health agent ordered these foods when it detected she\u0026#8217;d entered her luteal phase. Tonight\u0026#8217;s weights class has been swapped for yoga. Her calendar has been adjusted. Maya didn\u0026#8217;t need to lift a finger, only her cup.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eFacts of life\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe previous scene is not speculative fiction set in 2035. This is the here and now. The headband is \u003ca href=\"https://www.samphireneuro.com/en-gb\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSamphire Neuro’s\u003c/a\u003e Nettle, a CE-marked, drug-free, hormone-free, brain-based neurostimulation device revolutionizing women’s health. The health agent is \u003ca href=\"https://apps.apple.com/us/app/miora-ai-health-assistant/id6745145922\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003emiora\u003c/a\u003e, an AI-powered assistant that connects to your wearables, auto-books workouts on ClassPass and runs your health life through chat-powered interface.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHealthcare is rapidly becoming a consumer brand, not a system people navigate. Patients are beginning to behave accordingly. They expect quality, speed, choice and \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/designing-the-future-of-health-insurance\"\u003eseamless connected care\u003c/a\u003e delivery. If the experience falls short, they walk away. The organizations paying attention are already responding. \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/CRI_Connected-Health_17062024_Final-File_Web.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eCapgemini research\u003c/a\u003e found that between 2021 and 2024, connected health portfolios grew across the board: monitoring and follow-up was the fastest growing focus (+127%), followed by diagnosis (+83%), direct treatment (+25%) and preventive care and wellness (+22%). Clinical outcomes will always matter. But the new benchmark is deeply consumerized.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eAn emerging diagnosis: The changing landscape\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRefined roles and value chain in the healthcare ecosystem\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter\" src=\"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-Graphic_1_2.jpg\" width=\"640\" height=\"auto\" /\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe line between consumer and clinical is blurring\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGoogle’s health-tracking wearable, Fitbit, launched in 2009 with a simple ambition: Get people moving. It worked, and then it quickly became a footnote in the evolution of HealthTech. But Google is not the only laggard. If you\u0026#8217;re still using Apple Health to track your steps, you\u0026#8217;re a few steps behind. The Whoop wristband reads motion and heart rate to distinguish \u003ca href=\"https://support.whoop.com/s/article/Automatic-and-Manual-Activity-Detection?language=en_US#:~:text=Frequently%20Asked%20Questions-,Activity%20Auto%2DDetection,with%20Coach%20about%20their%20workout.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003ebetween over 60 activities\u003c/a\u003e, whether it’s paddling, rock climbing, or open-water swimming. Moreover, tells you exactly how hard you should push your body the next day.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOura is another example of pioneering tech. Across\u003ca href=\"https://thehealthcaretechnologyreport.com/oura-surpasses-5-5m-oura-rings-sold-projects-1b-revenue-in-2025/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e 5.5 million users\u003c/a\u003e, the life-saving stories just keep coming. Whether it\u0026#8217;s \u003ca href=\"https://abcnews.com/GMA/Wellness/nurse-practitioner-oura-ring-helped-save-life/story?id=119641428\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eHodgkin lymphoma\u003c/a\u003e caught early, or a life-threatening \u003ca href=\"https://ouraring.com/blog/oura-health-member-stories/?srsltid=AfmBOopl9i5bqs1O7Lf3JrSSSQVLXeCX-p-oRJdoXfREYIz3QPCTbfue\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eheart condition\u003c/a\u003e flagged in time for emergency surgery. Last year, Oura hired its first-ever \u003ca href=\"https://ouraring.com/blog/ricky-bloomfield-chief-medical-officer/?srsltid=AfmBOorlcMVrKYUSIEtlyCu7ppNsGww_q35_3huCyhXT5eiq7d7-C9sv\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eChief Medical Officer, Ricky Bloomfield\u003c/a\u003e, with an explicit mandate to build a clinical team. More recently, Oura CEO, Tom Hale called for \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/opinion/with-less-regulation-your-oura-ring-could-do-more-af90a76d\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eregulatory reform\u003c/a\u003e, warning that innovative manufacturers face an impossible choice: Tailor features to the wellness category and sacrifice functionality, or accept slower product development and market entry. The FDA updated its guidance weeks later, beginning to recognize population-level consumer data as clinical evidence, at a scale no conventional trial can match. Oura has already been reimbursed across multiple lines of business. With a clinical vision now steering the company, it will only expand further.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNone of these companies started out with medical devices, but they are all now building clinical moats. The FDA is already listening. Institutional payers are the next enabler, and when the product gets reimbursed, the addressable population will grow not incrementally but exponentially.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe testing revolution is underway\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday, we either rely on annual check-ups (limited in scope, time-consuming, context-poor) or wait until something goes wrong. Beyond those moments, we\u0026#8217;ve had almost no visibility into what\u0026#8217;s actually happening inside our bodies. We fly blind year after year and call it healthcare. That \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/amplifying-clinical-care-with-ai\"\u003emodel is being dismantled\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eCompanies like Function Health and Superpower are building comprehensive, integrated, personalized and increasingly accessible testing ecosystems. \u003ca href=\"https://www.functionhealth.com/faqs/why-are-traditional-lab-tests-so-expensive\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eFunction Health\u003c/a\u003e offers over 160 lab tests annually. It charges $365 per year for a panel that would cost over $15,000 through traditional channels. That’s one dollar per day for a better look at your biology than most people get in a lifetime of GP appointments. In 2025, they launched their Medical Intelligence Lab, which is designed to unify labs, imaging, wearables and medical records data into a continuous learning model of your health. More recently, they released a ChatGPT plug-in that lets members conversationally interrogate their own lab results. \u003ca href=\"https://superpower.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorWP2YurUWwJ0Z2oP-rVo8H-Gu56cQvhkJQgFlg5_Xltq--L1hU\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSuperpower\u003c/a\u003e launched in stealth mode in 2023, charging clients $499 per year, with over 100 biomarkers and \u003ca href=\"https://strategybreakdowns.com/p/superpower-waitlist\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e150,000 people on the waitlist\u003c/a\u003e. They\u0026#8217;ve since slashed their opening fee to $199. Today, they are building a personalization layer that tailors testing profiles to age, health risks, and personal goals.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWith such innovation and improving economics, we may be closer than we think to a world in which you walk into your local Walmart to get a full body scan for a fraction of the current price. It sounds like science fiction, but the trajectory is clear.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003ePrevention finally has its moment\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor years, prevention was seen as a wellness play: IV drips, infrared saunas, adaptogens with elegant packaging and aspirational price tags. That is changing. Prevention is being reframed not as a lifestyle choice but as a clinical and commercial imperative with a real business case.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25551859/#:~:text=The%20national%20health%20care%20agenda,those%20complex%20episodes%20of%20care.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e80/20 rule\u003c/a\u003e is well established. It highlights how the top 20% of patients generate roughly 80% of healthcare costs, largely driven by late-stage chronic conditions. But what if the 20% could be identified and helped earlier? What happens to the traditional healthcare model when we stop treating sickness and start prioritizing a healthy lifestyle?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://healthy.io/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eHealthy.io\u0026#8217;s\u003c/a\u003e approach is simple: The most powerful clinical device you already own is your smartphone camera. The company’s flagship product, Minuteful Kidney, enables patients to test for chronic kidney disease (CKD) at home. The traditional urine dipstick is teamed with a phone camera and computer vision to read the results with lab-level accuracy. Results go directly to the clinician. Around \u003ca href=\"https://blog.healthy.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/TKF-Healthy.io-Case-Study.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e80% of high-risk patients\u003c/a\u003e who qualify for annual CKD testing never complete it. Minuteful Kidney pushed adherence to \u003ca href=\"https://blog.healthy.io/company-news/minuteful-kidney-receives-fda-clearance/#:~:text=%22Millions%20of%20Americans%20are%20living,potentially%20life%2Dsaving%20information.%22\u0026amp;text=We've%20already%20seen%20the,many%20milestones%20yet%20to%20come.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e50% in previously untested\u003c/a\u003e populations. They \u003ca href=\"https://www.managedhealthcareexecutive.com/view/at-home-test-for-kidney-disease-gains-fda-clearance#:~:text=Healthy.io%20said%2055%25%20of,year%20to%20treat%20Medicare%20patients.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003ecalculate their service\u003c/a\u003e could eliminate 19.8 million hours of dialysis among the 1.4 million people with diabetes in the UK who currently go untested, making a saving of nearly £700 million.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen the cost of prevention drops below the cost of a single late-stage intervention, the business model writes itself.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"Healthcare is being reshaped from the outside in by patients who now trust platforms, peers and data as much as any clinical gatekeeper.\"","author":"Veronika Ji, Strategy Director, frog, part of Capgemini 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channels built on Al","media":{"ID":86772,"id":86772,"title":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_2","filename":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_2.jpg","filesize":1704444,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-consumerization-of-care/attachment/the-consumerization-of-care-slide_2/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"the-consumerization-of-care-slide_2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":86528,"date":"2026-04-27 16:12:25","modified":"2026-04-27 16:12:25","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1920,"height":1080,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_2-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_2-300x169.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":169,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_2-768x432.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":360,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_2-1024x576.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":360,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_2-1536x864.jpg","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":864,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_2.jpg","2048x2048-width":1920,"2048x2048-height":1080}},"media_preview":false,"inner_html":""},{"title":"Hardware is your moat","media":{"ID":86779,"id":86779,"title":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_3","filename":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_3.jpg","filesize":1776245,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_3.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-consumerization-of-care/attachment/the-consumerization-of-care-slide_3/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"the-consumerization-of-care-slide_3","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":86528,"date":"2026-04-27 16:12:28","modified":"2026-04-27 16:12:28","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1920,"height":1080,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_3-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_3-300x169.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":169,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_3-768x432.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":360,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_3-1024x576.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":360,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_3-1536x864.jpg","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":864,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_3.jpg","2048x2048-width":1920,"2048x2048-height":1080}},"media_preview":false,"inner_html":""},{"title":"Specialization concentrates value","media":{"ID":86786,"id":86786,"title":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4","filename":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4.jpg","filesize":1837022,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-consumerization-of-care/attachment/the-consumerization-of-care-slide_4/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"the-consumerization-of-care-slide_4","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":86528,"date":"2026-04-27 16:12:32","modified":"2026-04-27 16:12:32","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1920,"height":1080,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-300x169.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":169,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-768x432.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":360,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-1024x576.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":360,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-1536x864.jpg","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":864,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4.jpg","2048x2048-width":1920,"2048x2048-height":1080}},"media_preview":false,"inner_html":""},{"title":"Al-mediated care","media":{"ID":86793,"id":86793,"title":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5","filename":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5.jpg","filesize":1702281,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-consumerization-of-care/attachment/the-consumerization-of-care-slide_5/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"the-consumerization-of-care-slide_5","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":86528,"date":"2026-04-27 16:12:36","modified":"2026-04-27 16:12:36","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1920,"height":1080,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-300x169.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":169,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-768x432.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":360,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-1024x576.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":360,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-1536x864.jpg","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":864,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5.jpg","2048x2048-width":1920,"2048x2048-height":1080}},"media_preview":false,"inner_html":""},{"title":"Payment model evolution","media":{"ID":86800,"id":86800,"title":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6","filename":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6.jpg","filesize":1652912,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-consumerization-of-care/attachment/the-consumerization-of-care-slide_6/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"the-consumerization-of-care-slide_6","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":86528,"date":"2026-04-27 16:12:40","modified":"2026-04-27 16:12:40","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1920,"height":1080,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-300x169.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":169,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-768x432.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":360,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-1024x576.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":360,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-1536x864.jpg","1536x1536-width":1536,"1536x1536-height":864,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6.jpg","2048x2048-width":1920,"2048x2048-height":1080}},"media_preview":false,"inner_html":""}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"numbered_section_block","title":"How to respond, and where to start","description":"We see six shifts guiding traditional players (MedTech, pharma and health systems operators) on how to respond to avoid being left behind. ","numbered_sections":[{"title":"From products to ecosystems","content":"\u003cp\u003ePoint-in-time interventions are losing to deeply personalized ecosystems. Moreover, the treat-and-discharge model is becoming structurally inadequate for chronic conditions. What patients need is a persistent, “living” layer: continuous, personalized and integrated into daily life. The companies getting this right aren\u0026#8217;t building better products; they\u0026#8217;re building infrastructure that underlies a patient\u0026#8217;s life and compounds over time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e\u0026#8220;The future of care isn’t just a better product or a treatment; it’s the service layer or the infrastructure that wraps around the patient\u0026#8217;s life, connects the dots and compounds over time.\u0026#8221;\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eChiara Diana VP, Chief Design Officer, frog, part of Capgemini Invent\u003cbr /\u003e\nGLP-1s were the \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/science/2026/feb/15/weight-loss-race-injections-pills-big-pharma\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003efastest drug launch\u003c/a\u003e in history. Primarily pitched as weight management treatment, we’re beginning to see their effects on patients. Research suggest that \u003ca href=\"https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2024/11/why-do-50-75-of-people-stop-taking-glp-1-drugs-within-a-year#:~:text=The%20use%20of%20diabetes%20and,help%20patients%20continue%20their%20therapy.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e50-75%\u003c/a\u003e stop using GPL-1s within a year, often undernourished, metabolically unprepared and without a plan. GLP-1s didn\u0026#8217;t solve obesity, but they did open a window. The same logic applies across chronic conditions. Every treatment needs a wrapper: during administration to ease intervention while supporting adherence, nutrition, emotional and lifestyle changes; and after the course, to integrate back into daily life, sustain outcomes and prevent regression. That persistent, living layer is where the real opportunity lives. Here, \u003ca href=\"https://alnuhealth.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eAlnu Health\u003c/a\u003e is a shining example of what can be achieved by building a Health OS.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"New channels built on AI and social trust","content":"\u003cp\u003eThe traditional playbook was largely driven by healthcare professionals (HCPs): clinical reps, hospital adoption, medical journals and Google search. That assumption is breaking down on three fronts simultaneously.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe gatekeepers to the internet are changing. Conversational AI is replacing Google as the front door to health decisions, in many cases bypassing the clinical rep entirely. \u003ca href=\"https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2024-02-19-gartner-predicts-search-engine-volume-will-drop-25-percent-by-2026-due-to-ai-chatbots-and-other-virtual-agents#:~:text=Tech%20Marketing%20Tactics%20to%20be,success%20in%20organic%20search%20results.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eGartner\u003c/a\u003e predicted a 25% drop in Google search volume by 2026. It was proven correct within healthcare, where the shift has already occurred. People are so deeply invested in their health, with LLMs now meeting that obsession perfectly. \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Research-brief_From-hype-to-habit.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eCapgemini research\u003c/a\u003e indicates that 51% of the baby boomer generation and 50% of Gen X now use AI for medical advice, which has in turn led to a 44% decrease in engagement with traditional healthcare services. A patient can spend eight hours interrogating their results with an AI companion, while clinician spend only ten minutes examining the data.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThese tools are always on, deeply contextual and building trust fast. They are not just discovery platforms; they are becoming the point of purchase. The implication is clear: Search Engine Optimization (SEO) is no longer enough. Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) is the new frontier, urging organizations to stay relevant inside the conversations happening in Claude, ChatGPT, Perplexity and other models.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e\u0026#8220;The front door to healthcare is no longer a clinic; it’s a chatbot, or a Reddit thread, or a TikTok at midnight.\u0026#8221;\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLaura Valiukeviciute, Strategy Lead, frog, part of Capgemini Invent\u003cbr /\u003e\nIn addition to changing requirements for relevance, influence has become decentralized. Trust has migrated from institutions to lived experience. Reddit threads, TikTok and Instagram testimonials now shape purchase intent, treatment decisions and brand perception in ways clinical endorsement alone cannot. Younger generations never adopted the old channels to begin with. Superpower built its 150,000-person waitlist almost entirely through creator-led social, not paid search or HCP referral. That\u0026#8217;s a distribution playbook borrowed from consumer brands. When applied to healthcare, it works.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLocation is also once again becoming a strategic variable. As consumers gain more choice and are less bound by navigating the system, convenience becomes a key consideration. Where you exist in the real world matters as much as where you rank online. The winning formula is one that combines the digital and physical. You need the right online presence pulling people in, coupled with a physical location strategy: Own the right spaces, insertion points, and partnerships.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Hardware is your moat, but integrated services differentiate","content":"\u003cp\u003eFor decades, MedTech\u0026#8217;s defensibility came from hardware: the device, the process, the distribution contract. That hasn’t gone away. If anything, when anyone can ship an app overnight, the durable physical IP becomes an even more strategic position. But don\u0026#8217;t mistake that for safety. The benchmark has fundamentally shifted.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDesign is now a clinical variable. Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM) was the proof-of-concept: clinical-grade technology, worn invisibly, always on, woven into daily life. That is the new standard, not a one-off. The strongest players no longer separate form, function and service; they design hardware, software and end-to-end support as a holistic care experience. This is where durable moats are now built, and where most incumbent players are still dangerously behind.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Specialization is where value concentrates","content":"\u003cp\u003eThe consumerization of health will touch primary care, but specialty care is where it\u0026#8217;s truly disruptive. This is because specialty is where patients feel the most pain, the most limited knowledge, and the longest wait times. Here, they encounter sequences of referrals and tests that feel designed to make you confused and frustrate you into leaving untreated. The lack of continuity, personalization and solutions may work for the few, but they fail the many.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eInnovative disruptors use solving hard, targeted problems as their insertion point. Specialization creates defensibility: disease-specific evidence, payer relationships and community trust that no generalist platform can replicate. The deeper you go, the harder you are to displace. \u003ca href=\"https://www.empowersleep.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eEmpower Sleep\u003c/a\u003e is a great example. Sleep disorders affect \u003ca href=\"https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/science/sleep-science-and-sleep-disorders\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e50-70 million Americans\u003c/a\u003e. Worldwide, \u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10926017/#:~:text=Epidemiology%20of%20Sleep%20Disorders\u0026amp;text=Worldwide%2C%20between%2030%25%20and%2035,monitoring%2C%20and%20effective%20preventive%20strategies.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e30-35%\u003c/a\u003e of people have symptoms of insomnia. From blunt medications and wearables that confirm what you already suspect, to an absence of personalization and adaptive care–the system is clearly broken. Empower Sleep ships an FDA-cleared home-sleep-testing kit, pairs patients with a clinical team and builds a dynamic protocol that evolves with the data. The CEO claims the company’s outcomes are two times better when benchmarked with standard care—but more on this later.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor established players, the warning is clear: Emerging competitors aren\u0026#8217;t necessarily attacking your core, but they are occupying the specialist ignored gaps. The same move is available to you, and with it comes unmatched scale and clinical credibility.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"From isolated AI use cases to AI-mediated care orchestration","content":"\u003cp\u003eThe real bottleneck in healthcare was never data collection. Rather, it was always the messy middle: fragmentation, interpretation and execution. It’s all about turning signals into decisions, connecting devices, records and data sources that have never spoken to each other, all while acting at speed without a human initiating every step. Generative and agentic AI now make this possible. But the companies extracting real value aren\u0026#8217;t adding AI to existing workflows; rather they are dismantling those workflows and rebuilding from scratch: patient journeys, clinical touchpoints and internal operations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMatteo Franceschetti, CEO of Eight Sleep, attended the 2026 Stanford Consumer Health Conference and shared what this looks like in practice. He told the audience that the company went from zero to 15 AI employees in a matter of weeks, with a short-term projection of 30 to 50. Tasks generating ~$15M of value have been compressed from 30 days to five. Two-hour activities now take minutes. The talent and output multiplier is unprecedented. If you already have 10 engineers, but AI unlocks another 10 people from other disciplines to ship code, and then each gets 10 agents of their own, you effectively scale from 10 to 200 people with one hundred and eighty of them working around the clock. Externally, the product is improving at a pace that was once impossible. The company has a long-term vision to provide every patient with a personal AI agent that can manage their health across devices, wearables and data sources through a single conversational interface.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe question for established players isn\u0026#8217;t whether to integrate AI; it\u0026#8217;s whether you\u0026#8217;re willing to redesign the whole system around it, or just the edges. The gap between those two answers will define the next decade.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Payment model evolution","content":"\u003cp\u003eThe traditional reimbursement playbook is no longer sufficient. Two forces are colliding. Patients are paying out of pocket for things the system won\u0026#8217;t cover: comprehensive testing, preventive devices, GLP-1s, creating a direct-to-consumer payment dynamic for which legacy players never had to design. Simultaneously, consumer health companies, often with subscription-native models, are pushing toward reimbursement. Oura is already reimbursable in the US through several accounts: FSA, HSA, and HRA accounts. Apple Watch was offered free to Aetna members who hit activity targets.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e\u0026#8220;The reimbursement-led model is being replaced by a consumer-first mindset. And consumers are unforgiving—they expect value, speed and convenience, and they walk away when they don\u0026#8217;t get it.\u0026#8221;\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMalina Keutel, Program Director, frog, part of Capgemini Invent\u003cbr /\u003e\nFor established players, standalone devices are losing relevance. The shift is toward subscription ecosystems, where hardware is the gateway, not the product; where retention, not acquisition, is the commercial engine. That requires a fundamentally different offer architecture that considers what sits in the base product, what sits behind a paywall, what gets bundled with services and what drives long-term engagement. The questions aren\u0026#8217;t just commercial; they\u0026#8217;re strategic. Which features command a premium? What is the patient actually willing to pay for continuously, not just once? How do you design for loyalty in a category where switching costs have historically been low?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe companies winning on payment solutions aren\u0026#8217;t optimizing their reimbursement strategy; they\u0026#8217;re rebuilding the commercial model from scratch.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003ch3\u003eThe time is now\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWelcome to the consumerization of care. Here, we are witness to a fundamental rewiring of who healthcare is built for and who gets to benefit from it. The companies leading this shift didn’t ask for permission. Already inside the system, they started building from the patient out, accumulating everything required to compound: data, trust and relationships at scale.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe tools to deliver better, earlier, more continuous care are here. Moreover, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/connecting-healthcare-professionals\"\u003ebarriers to access are dissolving\u003c/a\u003e. For HCPs and patients alike, ubiquitous access to care has long been the unconquerable white whale. But now, with the advent of AI, it might really be within reach for everyone.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"ID":13210,"post_author":"30","post_date":"2020-07-08 20:10:34","post_date_gmt":"2020-07-08 20:10:34","post_content":"","post_title":"Chiara Diana","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"chiara-diana","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2026-04-14 18:01:30","post_modified_gmt":"2026-04-14 18:01:30","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=13210","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Chiara Diana","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGlobal design and innovation leader, Chiara brings over 20 years of experience shaping futureproof products and services for multinational organizations, with a sustained focus on healthcare since joining frog in 2010. 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14:58:07","modified":"2026-04-22 14:58:07","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/gif","type":"image","subtype":"gif","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1440,"height":552,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-150x150.gif","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-300x115.gif","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":115,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-768x294.gif","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":245,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-1024x393.gif","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":246,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header.gif","1536X1536Width":1440,"1536X1536Height":552,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header.gif","2048X2048Width":1440,"2048X2048Height":552}},"videoFile":false,"title":"The Consumerization of Care","description":"Shifting from an institutional system of care delivery to a more intuitive, human-centered consumer experience.","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Article","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eTuesday: 7:47 AM\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMaya is making coffee. She adjusts her headband. But this is no mere hair accessory. Its transcranial electrical stimulation put an end to her premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD) long ago. Stirring the cup, she barely remembers the debilitating pain, depressive mood swings. Her phone lights up. DoorDash is on its way: salmon, leafy greens, dark chocolate. Her health agent ordered these foods when it detected she\u0026#8217;d entered her luteal phase. Tonight\u0026#8217;s weights class has been swapped for yoga. Her calendar has been adjusted. Maya didn\u0026#8217;t need to lift a finger, only her cup.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eFacts of life\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe previous scene is not speculative fiction set in 2035. This is the here and now. The headband is \u003ca href=\"https://www.samphireneuro.com/en-gb\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSamphire Neuro’s\u003c/a\u003e Nettle, a CE-marked, drug-free, hormone-free, brain-based neurostimulation device revolutionizing women’s health. The health agent is \u003ca href=\"https://apps.apple.com/us/app/miora-ai-health-assistant/id6745145922\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003emiora\u003c/a\u003e, an AI-powered assistant that connects to your wearables, auto-books workouts on ClassPass and runs your health life through chat-powered interface.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eHealthcare is rapidly becoming a consumer brand, not a system people navigate. Patients are beginning to behave accordingly. They expect quality, speed, choice and \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/designing-the-future-of-health-insurance\"\u003eseamless connected care\u003c/a\u003e delivery. If the experience falls short, they walk away. The organizations paying attention are already responding. \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/CRI_Connected-Health_17062024_Final-File_Web.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eCapgemini research\u003c/a\u003e found that between 2021 and 2024, connected health portfolios grew across the board: monitoring and follow-up was the fastest growing focus (+127%), followed by diagnosis (+83%), direct treatment (+25%) and preventive care and wellness (+22%). Clinical outcomes will always matter. But the new benchmark is deeply consumerized.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eAn emerging diagnosis: The changing landscape\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eRefined roles and value chain in the healthcare ecosystem\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter\" src=\"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-header-Graphic_1_2.jpg\" width=\"640\" height=\"auto\" /\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe line between consumer and clinical is blurring\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eGoogle’s health-tracking wearable, Fitbit, launched in 2009 with a simple ambition: Get people moving. It worked, and then it quickly became a footnote in the evolution of HealthTech. But Google is not the only laggard. If you\u0026#8217;re still using Apple Health to track your steps, you\u0026#8217;re a few steps behind. The Whoop wristband reads motion and heart rate to distinguish \u003ca href=\"https://support.whoop.com/s/article/Automatic-and-Manual-Activity-Detection?language=en_US#:~:text=Frequently%20Asked%20Questions-,Activity%20Auto%2DDetection,with%20Coach%20about%20their%20workout.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003ebetween over 60 activities\u003c/a\u003e, whether it’s paddling, rock climbing, or open-water swimming. Moreover, tells you exactly how hard you should push your body the next day.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOura is another example of pioneering tech. Across\u003ca href=\"https://thehealthcaretechnologyreport.com/oura-surpasses-5-5m-oura-rings-sold-projects-1b-revenue-in-2025/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e 5.5 million users\u003c/a\u003e, the life-saving stories just keep coming. Whether it\u0026#8217;s \u003ca href=\"https://abcnews.com/GMA/Wellness/nurse-practitioner-oura-ring-helped-save-life/story?id=119641428\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eHodgkin lymphoma\u003c/a\u003e caught early, or a life-threatening \u003ca href=\"https://ouraring.com/blog/oura-health-member-stories/?srsltid=AfmBOopl9i5bqs1O7Lf3JrSSSQVLXeCX-p-oRJdoXfREYIz3QPCTbfue\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eheart condition\u003c/a\u003e flagged in time for emergency surgery. Last year, Oura hired its first-ever \u003ca href=\"https://ouraring.com/blog/ricky-bloomfield-chief-medical-officer/?srsltid=AfmBOorlcMVrKYUSIEtlyCu7ppNsGww_q35_3huCyhXT5eiq7d7-C9sv\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eChief Medical Officer, Ricky Bloomfield\u003c/a\u003e, with an explicit mandate to build a clinical team. More recently, Oura CEO, Tom Hale called for \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/opinion/with-less-regulation-your-oura-ring-could-do-more-af90a76d\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eregulatory reform\u003c/a\u003e, warning that innovative manufacturers face an impossible choice: Tailor features to the wellness category and sacrifice functionality, or accept slower product development and market entry. The FDA updated its guidance weeks later, beginning to recognize population-level consumer data as clinical evidence, at a scale no conventional trial can match. Oura has already been reimbursed across multiple lines of business. With a clinical vision now steering the company, it will only expand further.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNone of these companies started out with medical devices, but they are all now building clinical moats. The FDA is already listening. Institutional payers are the next enabler, and when the product gets reimbursed, the addressable population will grow not incrementally but exponentially.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eThe testing revolution is underway\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday, we either rely on annual check-ups (limited in scope, time-consuming, context-poor) or wait until something goes wrong. Beyond those moments, we\u0026#8217;ve had almost no visibility into what\u0026#8217;s actually happening inside our bodies. We fly blind year after year and call it healthcare. That \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/amplifying-clinical-care-with-ai\"\u003emodel is being dismantled\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eCompanies like Function Health and Superpower are building comprehensive, integrated, personalized and increasingly accessible testing ecosystems. \u003ca href=\"https://www.functionhealth.com/faqs/why-are-traditional-lab-tests-so-expensive\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eFunction Health\u003c/a\u003e offers over 160 lab tests annually. It charges $365 per year for a panel that would cost over $15,000 through traditional channels. That’s one dollar per day for a better look at your biology than most people get in a lifetime of GP appointments. In 2025, they launched their Medical Intelligence Lab, which is designed to unify labs, imaging, wearables and medical records data into a continuous learning model of your health. More recently, they released a ChatGPT plug-in that lets members conversationally interrogate their own lab results. \u003ca href=\"https://superpower.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorWP2YurUWwJ0Z2oP-rVo8H-Gu56cQvhkJQgFlg5_Xltq--L1hU\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSuperpower\u003c/a\u003e launched in stealth mode in 2023, charging clients $499 per year, with over 100 biomarkers and \u003ca href=\"https://strategybreakdowns.com/p/superpower-waitlist\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e150,000 people on the waitlist\u003c/a\u003e. They\u0026#8217;ve since slashed their opening fee to $199. Today, they are building a personalization layer that tailors testing profiles to age, health risks, and personal goals.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWith such innovation and improving economics, we may be closer than we think to a world in which you walk into your local Walmart to get a full body scan for a fraction of the current price. It sounds like science fiction, but the trajectory is clear.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003ePrevention finally has its moment\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor years, prevention was seen as a wellness play: IV drips, infrared saunas, adaptogens with elegant packaging and aspirational price tags. That is changing. Prevention is being reframed not as a lifestyle choice but as a clinical and commercial imperative with a real business case.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25551859/#:~:text=The%20national%20health%20care%20agenda,those%20complex%20episodes%20of%20care.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e80/20 rule\u003c/a\u003e is well established. It highlights how the top 20% of patients generate roughly 80% of healthcare costs, largely driven by late-stage chronic conditions. But what if the 20% could be identified and helped earlier? What happens to the traditional healthcare model when we stop treating sickness and start prioritizing a healthy lifestyle?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://healthy.io/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eHealthy.io\u0026#8217;s\u003c/a\u003e approach is simple: The most powerful clinical device you already own is your smartphone camera. The company’s flagship product, Minuteful Kidney, enables patients to test for chronic kidney disease (CKD) at home. The traditional urine dipstick is teamed with a phone camera and computer vision to read the results with lab-level accuracy. Results go directly to the clinician. Around \u003ca href=\"https://blog.healthy.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/TKF-Healthy.io-Case-Study.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e80% of high-risk patients\u003c/a\u003e who qualify for annual CKD testing never complete it. Minuteful Kidney pushed adherence to \u003ca href=\"https://blog.healthy.io/company-news/minuteful-kidney-receives-fda-clearance/#:~:text=%22Millions%20of%20Americans%20are%20living,potentially%20life%2Dsaving%20information.%22\u0026amp;text=We've%20already%20seen%20the,many%20milestones%20yet%20to%20come.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e50% in previously untested\u003c/a\u003e populations. They \u003ca href=\"https://www.managedhealthcareexecutive.com/view/at-home-test-for-kidney-disease-gains-fda-clearance#:~:text=Healthy.io%20said%2055%25%20of,year%20to%20treat%20Medicare%20patients.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003ecalculate their service\u003c/a\u003e could eliminate 19.8 million hours of dialysis among the 1.4 million people with diabetes in the UK who currently go untested, making a saving of nearly £700 million.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWhen the cost of prevention drops below the cost of a single late-stage intervention, the business model writes itself.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"large_blockquote_block","quote":"\"Healthcare is being reshaped from the outside in by patients who now trust platforms, peers and data as much as any clinical gatekeeper.\"","author":"Veronika Ji, Strategy Director, frog, part of Capgemini 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concentrates value","media":{"id":86786,"title":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4","filename":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4.jpg","filesize":1837022,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-consumerization-of-care/attachment/the-consumerization-of-care-slide_4/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"the-consumerization-of-care-slide_4","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86528,"date":"2026-04-27 16:12:32","modified":"2026-04-27 16:12:32","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1920,"height":1080,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-300x169.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":169,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-768x432.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":360,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-1024x576.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":360,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4-1536x864.jpg","1536X1536Width":1536,"1536X1536Height":864,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_4.jpg","2048X2048Width":1920,"2048X2048Height":1080}},"mediaPreview":false,"innerHtml":""},{"title":"Al-mediated care","media":{"id":86793,"title":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5","filename":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5.jpg","filesize":1702281,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-consumerization-of-care/attachment/the-consumerization-of-care-slide_5/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"the-consumerization-of-care-slide_5","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86528,"date":"2026-04-27 16:12:36","modified":"2026-04-27 16:12:36","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1920,"height":1080,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-300x169.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":169,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-768x432.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":360,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-1024x576.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":360,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5-1536x864.jpg","1536X1536Width":1536,"1536X1536Height":864,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_5.jpg","2048X2048Width":1920,"2048X2048Height":1080}},"mediaPreview":false,"innerHtml":""},{"title":"Payment model evolution","media":{"id":86800,"title":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6","filename":"the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6.jpg","filesize":1652912,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-consumerization-of-care/attachment/the-consumerization-of-care-slide_6/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"the-consumerization-of-care-slide_6","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86528,"date":"2026-04-27 16:12:40","modified":"2026-04-27 16:12:40","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1920,"height":1080,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-300x169.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":169,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-768x432.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":360,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-1024x576.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":360,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6-1536x864.jpg","1536X1536Width":1536,"1536X1536Height":864,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/the-consumerization-of-care-Slide_6.jpg","2048X2048Width":1920,"2048X2048Height":1080}},"mediaPreview":false,"innerHtml":""}]},{"acfFcLayout":"numbered_section_block","title":"How to respond, and where to start","description":"We see six shifts guiding traditional players (MedTech, pharma and health systems operators) on how to respond to avoid being left behind. ","numberedSections":[{"title":"From products to ecosystems","content":"\u003cp\u003ePoint-in-time interventions are losing to deeply personalized ecosystems. Moreover, the treat-and-discharge model is becoming structurally inadequate for chronic conditions. What patients need is a persistent, “living” layer: continuous, personalized and integrated into daily life. The companies getting this right aren\u0026#8217;t building better products; they\u0026#8217;re building infrastructure that underlies a patient\u0026#8217;s life and compounds over time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e\u0026#8220;The future of care isn’t just a better product or a treatment; it’s the service layer or the infrastructure that wraps around the patient\u0026#8217;s life, connects the dots and compounds over time.\u0026#8221;\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eChiara Diana VP, Chief Design Officer, frog, part of Capgemini Invent\u003cbr /\u003e\nGLP-1s were the \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/science/2026/feb/15/weight-loss-race-injections-pills-big-pharma\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003efastest drug launch\u003c/a\u003e in history. Primarily pitched as weight management treatment, we’re beginning to see their effects on patients. Research suggest that \u003ca href=\"https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2024/11/why-do-50-75-of-people-stop-taking-glp-1-drugs-within-a-year#:~:text=The%20use%20of%20diabetes%20and,help%20patients%20continue%20their%20therapy.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e50-75%\u003c/a\u003e stop using GPL-1s within a year, often undernourished, metabolically unprepared and without a plan. GLP-1s didn\u0026#8217;t solve obesity, but they did open a window. The same logic applies across chronic conditions. Every treatment needs a wrapper: during administration to ease intervention while supporting adherence, nutrition, emotional and lifestyle changes; and after the course, to integrate back into daily life, sustain outcomes and prevent regression. That persistent, living layer is where the real opportunity lives. Here, \u003ca href=\"https://alnuhealth.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eAlnu Health\u003c/a\u003e is a shining example of what can be achieved by building a Health OS.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"New channels built on AI and social trust","content":"\u003cp\u003eThe traditional playbook was largely driven by healthcare professionals (HCPs): clinical reps, hospital adoption, medical journals and Google search. That assumption is breaking down on three fronts simultaneously.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe gatekeepers to the internet are changing. Conversational AI is replacing Google as the front door to health decisions, in many cases bypassing the clinical rep entirely. \u003ca href=\"https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2024-02-19-gartner-predicts-search-engine-volume-will-drop-25-percent-by-2026-due-to-ai-chatbots-and-other-virtual-agents#:~:text=Tech%20Marketing%20Tactics%20to%20be,success%20in%20organic%20search%20results.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eGartner\u003c/a\u003e predicted a 25% drop in Google search volume by 2026. It was proven correct within healthcare, where the shift has already occurred. People are so deeply invested in their health, with LLMs now meeting that obsession perfectly. \u003ca href=\"https://www.capgemini.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Research-brief_From-hype-to-habit.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eCapgemini research\u003c/a\u003e indicates that 51% of the baby boomer generation and 50% of Gen X now use AI for medical advice, which has in turn led to a 44% decrease in engagement with traditional healthcare services. A patient can spend eight hours interrogating their results with an AI companion, while clinician spend only ten minutes examining the data.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThese tools are always on, deeply contextual and building trust fast. They are not just discovery platforms; they are becoming the point of purchase. The implication is clear: Search Engine Optimization (SEO) is no longer enough. Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) is the new frontier, urging organizations to stay relevant inside the conversations happening in Claude, ChatGPT, Perplexity and other models.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e\u0026#8220;The front door to healthcare is no longer a clinic; it’s a chatbot, or a Reddit thread, or a TikTok at midnight.\u0026#8221;\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLaura Valiukeviciute, Strategy Lead, frog, part of Capgemini Invent\u003cbr /\u003e\nIn addition to changing requirements for relevance, influence has become decentralized. Trust has migrated from institutions to lived experience. Reddit threads, TikTok and Instagram testimonials now shape purchase intent, treatment decisions and brand perception in ways clinical endorsement alone cannot. Younger generations never adopted the old channels to begin with. Superpower built its 150,000-person waitlist almost entirely through creator-led social, not paid search or HCP referral. That\u0026#8217;s a distribution playbook borrowed from consumer brands. When applied to healthcare, it works.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eLocation is also once again becoming a strategic variable. As consumers gain more choice and are less bound by navigating the system, convenience becomes a key consideration. Where you exist in the real world matters as much as where you rank online. The winning formula is one that combines the digital and physical. You need the right online presence pulling people in, coupled with a physical location strategy: Own the right spaces, insertion points, and partnerships.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Hardware is your moat, but integrated services differentiate","content":"\u003cp\u003eFor decades, MedTech\u0026#8217;s defensibility came from hardware: the device, the process, the distribution contract. That hasn’t gone away. If anything, when anyone can ship an app overnight, the durable physical IP becomes an even more strategic position. But don\u0026#8217;t mistake that for safety. The benchmark has fundamentally shifted.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDesign is now a clinical variable. Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM) was the proof-of-concept: clinical-grade technology, worn invisibly, always on, woven into daily life. That is the new standard, not a one-off. The strongest players no longer separate form, function and service; they design hardware, software and end-to-end support as a holistic care experience. This is where durable moats are now built, and where most incumbent players are still dangerously behind.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Specialization is where value concentrates","content":"\u003cp\u003eThe consumerization of health will touch primary care, but specialty care is where it\u0026#8217;s truly disruptive. This is because specialty is where patients feel the most pain, the most limited knowledge, and the longest wait times. Here, they encounter sequences of referrals and tests that feel designed to make you confused and frustrate you into leaving untreated. The lack of continuity, personalization and solutions may work for the few, but they fail the many.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eInnovative disruptors use solving hard, targeted problems as their insertion point. Specialization creates defensibility: disease-specific evidence, payer relationships and community trust that no generalist platform can replicate. The deeper you go, the harder you are to displace. \u003ca href=\"https://www.empowersleep.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eEmpower Sleep\u003c/a\u003e is a great example. Sleep disorders affect \u003ca href=\"https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/science/sleep-science-and-sleep-disorders\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e50-70 million Americans\u003c/a\u003e. Worldwide, \u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10926017/#:~:text=Epidemiology%20of%20Sleep%20Disorders\u0026amp;text=Worldwide%2C%20between%2030%25%20and%2035,monitoring%2C%20and%20effective%20preventive%20strategies.\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e30-35%\u003c/a\u003e of people have symptoms of insomnia. From blunt medications and wearables that confirm what you already suspect, to an absence of personalization and adaptive care–the system is clearly broken. Empower Sleep ships an FDA-cleared home-sleep-testing kit, pairs patients with a clinical team and builds a dynamic protocol that evolves with the data. The CEO claims the company’s outcomes are two times better when benchmarked with standard care—but more on this later.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor established players, the warning is clear: Emerging competitors aren\u0026#8217;t necessarily attacking your core, but they are occupying the specialist ignored gaps. The same move is available to you, and with it comes unmatched scale and clinical credibility.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"From isolated AI use cases to AI-mediated care orchestration","content":"\u003cp\u003eThe real bottleneck in healthcare was never data collection. Rather, it was always the messy middle: fragmentation, interpretation and execution. It’s all about turning signals into decisions, connecting devices, records and data sources that have never spoken to each other, all while acting at speed without a human initiating every step. Generative and agentic AI now make this possible. But the companies extracting real value aren\u0026#8217;t adding AI to existing workflows; rather they are dismantling those workflows and rebuilding from scratch: patient journeys, clinical touchpoints and internal operations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMatteo Franceschetti, CEO of Eight Sleep, attended the 2026 Stanford Consumer Health Conference and shared what this looks like in practice. He told the audience that the company went from zero to 15 AI employees in a matter of weeks, with a short-term projection of 30 to 50. Tasks generating ~$15M of value have been compressed from 30 days to five. Two-hour activities now take minutes. The talent and output multiplier is unprecedented. If you already have 10 engineers, but AI unlocks another 10 people from other disciplines to ship code, and then each gets 10 agents of their own, you effectively scale from 10 to 200 people with one hundred and eighty of them working around the clock. Externally, the product is improving at a pace that was once impossible. The company has a long-term vision to provide every patient with a personal AI agent that can manage their health across devices, wearables and data sources through a single conversational interface.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe question for established players isn\u0026#8217;t whether to integrate AI; it\u0026#8217;s whether you\u0026#8217;re willing to redesign the whole system around it, or just the edges. The gap between those two answers will define the next decade.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"title":"Payment model evolution","content":"\u003cp\u003eThe traditional reimbursement playbook is no longer sufficient. Two forces are colliding. Patients are paying out of pocket for things the system won\u0026#8217;t cover: comprehensive testing, preventive devices, GLP-1s, creating a direct-to-consumer payment dynamic for which legacy players never had to design. Simultaneously, consumer health companies, often with subscription-native models, are pushing toward reimbursement. Oura is already reimbursable in the US through several accounts: FSA, HSA, and HRA accounts. Apple Watch was offered free to Aetna members who hit activity targets.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003ch2\u003e\u0026#8220;The reimbursement-led model is being replaced by a consumer-first mindset. And consumers are unforgiving—they expect value, speed and convenience, and they walk away when they don\u0026#8217;t get it.\u0026#8221;\u003c/h2\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eMalina Keutel, Program Director, frog, part of Capgemini Invent\u003cbr /\u003e\nFor established players, standalone devices are losing relevance. The shift is toward subscription ecosystems, where hardware is the gateway, not the product; where retention, not acquisition, is the commercial engine. That requires a fundamentally different offer architecture that considers what sits in the base product, what sits behind a paywall, what gets bundled with services and what drives long-term engagement. The questions aren\u0026#8217;t just commercial; they\u0026#8217;re strategic. Which features command a premium? What is the patient actually willing to pay for continuously, not just once? How do you design for loyalty in a category where switching costs have historically been low?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe companies winning on payment solutions aren\u0026#8217;t optimizing their reimbursement strategy; they\u0026#8217;re rebuilding the commercial model from scratch.\u003c/p\u003e\n"}]},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003ch3\u003eThe time is now\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eWelcome to the consumerization of care. Here, we are witness to a fundamental rewiring of who healthcare is built for and who gets to benefit from it. The companies leading this shift didn’t ask for permission. Already inside the system, they started building from the patient out, accumulating everything required to compound: data, trust and relationships at scale.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThe tools to deliver better, earlier, more continuous care are here. Moreover, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/work/connecting-healthcare-professionals\"\u003ebarriers to access are dissolving\u003c/a\u003e. For HCPs and patients alike, ubiquitous access to care has long been the unconquerable white whale. But now, with the advent of AI, it might really be within reach for everyone.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"","creators":false},"authors":[{"slug":"chiara-diana","authorName":"Chiara Diana","bio":"\u003cp\u003eGlobal design and innovation leader, Chiara brings over 20 years of experience shaping futureproof products and services for multinational organizations, with a sustained focus on healthcare since joining frog in 2010. Her work translates emerging technologies, human needs and regulatory complexity into experienceled, scalable healthcare innovation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eToday, as Chief Design Officer and Head of frog Innovation Team, she leads the growth of frog’s own design practice, shaping new capabilities, offerings and methods with teams worldwide.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"VP, Chief Design Officer, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.frog.co%2Fdesignmind%2Flaunched-on-tuesday\u0026text=%20\u0026original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.frog.co%2Fdesignmind%2Flaunched-on-tuesday","mediumProfileLink":"https://medium.com/@frogdesign","authorImage":{"id":86413,"title":"milan-design-week-Chiara-Diana","filename":"milan-design-week-Chiara-Diana.png","filesize":79471,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/milan-design-week-Chiara-Diana.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/milan-design-week-2026/attachment/milan-design-week-chiara-diana/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"milan-design-week-chiara-diana","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86207,"date":"2026-03-26 20:08:13","modified":"2026-03-26 20:08:13","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":525,"height":525,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/milan-design-week-Chiara-Diana-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/milan-design-week-Chiara-Diana-300x300.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/milan-design-week-Chiara-Diana.png","mediumLargeWidth":525,"mediumLargeHeight":525,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/milan-design-week-Chiara-Diana.png","largeWidth":525,"largeHeight":525,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/milan-design-week-Chiara-Diana.png","1536X1536Width":525,"1536X1536Height":525,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/milan-design-week-Chiara-Diana.png","2048X2048Width":525,"2048X2048Height":525}}},{"slug":"laura-valiukeviciute","authorName":"Laura Valiukeviciute","bio":"\u003cp\u003eLaura is a Growth Strategist at frog, working at the intersection of healthcare, consumer products and emerging technology. She helps pharma, biotech and digital health companies de-risk and accelerate growth–from opportunity identification through to product design, brand building and commercial validation. Through this work, she helps established players stay relevant and challengers scale smarter. Her recent work focuses on how consumer-first models are reshaping healthcare, and what traditional players need to do to keep up.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Strategy Lead, frog, part of Capgemini Invent","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":86537,"title":"Laura-Valiukeviciute-author","filename":"Laura-Valiukeviciute-author.png","filesize":131283,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Laura-Valiukeviciute-author.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/laura-valiukeviciute/attachment/laura-valiukeviciute-author/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"laura-valiukeviciute-author","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":86535,"date":"2026-04-14 18:04:24","modified":"2026-04-14 18:04:24","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":600,"height":600,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Laura-Valiukeviciute-author-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Laura-Valiukeviciute-author-300x300.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Laura-Valiukeviciute-author.png","mediumLargeWidth":600,"mediumLargeHeight":600,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Laura-Valiukeviciute-author.png","largeWidth":600,"largeHeight":600,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Laura-Valiukeviciute-author.png","1536X1536Width":600,"1536X1536Height":600,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Laura-Valiukeviciute-author.png","2048X2048Width":600,"2048X2048Height":600}}},{"slug":"veronika-ji","authorName":"Veronika Ji","bio":"\u003cp\u003eOriginally from China and now living in Italy, Veronika is a strategy director at frog, where she helps global clients unlock growth through innovation strategy and future-focused design. With a unique blend of strategic rigor and creative problem-solving, she guides clients from Life Science and Consumer Goods and Products industries in navigating emerging signals and shaping new opportunity spaces. 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Mind frogcast Ep.58 – When Human Connection Meets AI","description":"Our Guest: Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America","topics_title":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hide_module":false,"hide_post":false,"slug_override":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e we welcome Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America, to talk about how design is evolving in an AI-shaped world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJess traces her transition from consulting to experimentation-led design. She also discusses vibe coding, the opening up of creative tools and how AI is redefining brand relationships and business models.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode and watch the full video below. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor more on the co-evolution between humans and AI download our latest frog \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003eFuturescape report ‘Artificial Realities.’\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" height=\"200px\" width=\"100%\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless src=\"https://player.simplecast.com/a6930f94-613f-4978-85ea-687e82e83ece?dark=true\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 58:\u003c/strong\u003e When Human Connection Meets AI\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuest:\u003c/strong\u003e Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:00:03] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eWelcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:00:19] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eToday on our show, we\u0026#8217;re talking about the role of design in a world increasingly impacted by AI. To do this, we\u0026#8217;re joined by Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America. Jess shares her journey from traditional consulting to design leadership, driven by a desire to challenge assumptions and embrace experimentation. She also discusses the rise of vibe coding, open access to creative tools and how AI is reshaping brand interactions and business models.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:00:45] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eJess also played an important role in this year\u0026#8217;s frog \u003c/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eFuturescape report\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e titled ‘Artificial Realities,’ which explores 12 predictions and provocations on the future of human-AI chemistry. Here\u0026#8217;s Jess now sharing more about how she\u0026#8217;s using the report with clients and why it matters when it comes to developing business strategy. \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:0\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e1\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e:0\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e4\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003eI think that it\u0026#8217;s really tricky if you\u0026#8217;re in a large organization\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e,\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e to take the time to think about what\u0026#8217;s happening next year, let alone in the next five to 10 years. This report can help with that. I think that that is that\u0026#8217;s hugely beneficial, and that\u0026#8217;s been the way that we have been using it, and I\u0026#8217;m bringing it to board meetings or meetings with C-suite to have conversations with people about: How do you think that this is going to apply?  Like what of these scenarios feels relevant to you? And what of these, you know, potential futures, can you see impact in your business?\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:01:38] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003ePeople just don\u0026#8217;t really get the opportunity to do that in these kind of quarterly reporting cycles that most businesses are in. So being able to take a moment and to stop and think about what those future scenarios could look like are just, it\u0026#8217;s invaluable. And to do that with us, with the people who have been thinking about this and, you know, who are incredibly passionate about what some of these future scenarios could look like and with the implications \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eof some of these scenarios playing out, I think is, is the best way to do it.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:02:06] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003eMy name is Jess Leitch and I\u0026#8217;m the Head of frog in North America. So, I run all of the frog teams out of the US and Mexico.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:0\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e2\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e1\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e5\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eOriginally I moved into design because I started my career in consulting, actually and I, I think I grew frustrated with the advice that we were giving to clients and the way that we were going into their organizations and applying our assumptions and looking for the answers to support the assumptions that we were making and I was looking for something that would make less assumptions\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e,\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003ef\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eor a process, for a way of thinking that would be less assumptions-based and so design as a field really appealed to me for that reason. That we weren\u0026#8217;t going to make assumptions about what someone would like or what would fill a need. We would actually go in and test that and experiment and we wouldn\u0026#8217;t assume. We wouldn\u0026#8217;t take a template from one organization and try and apply it to another. And I really loved that about design and so deliberately made a choice to move away from more traditional strategy consulting, and, you know, customer consulting, towards, you know, at the time, more design thinking. And I honestly never looked back. It\u0026#8217;s an amazing tool for innovation. And it helps you to see things that you would never see otherwise. And I think that it is when combined with, you know, technology and the other tools or even sometimes combined with more traditional strategy methods, honestly. From a business model standpoint, I think that it is, it moves, it moves markets, industries and people forward.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:03:49] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eThat shift away from an assumption based approach is one that many organizations are making, especially as they explore emerging technologies in a move toward experimentation driven strategies, the questions clients ask our frog teams have also started to change,\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:04:03] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eI think at the moment, the top question that clients ask relates to AI and it\u0026#8217;s coming from two ends of the spectrum. So at one end the question is, how can I use AI to improve the delivery of my services, so that I do a better job for my customers, so that I increase the capacity of my customer support teams, of my operations teams, of my delivery teams, so that I reduce the time to serve, so that I reduce the cost to serve. Can you tell me, throughout my journey, where I should be using AI to help me do better by my customers, do better by my organization. So, one end, we\u0026#8217;re getting a lot of those kinds of requests for, you know, what the best tools are in AI, help me understand that and help me work out where I should be implementing that within my organization. And you know, we actually have some amazing case studies already where we have increased efficiency by 1,000% from some of the recommendations that we\u0026#8217;ve made that our clients have gone ahead and implemented. \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:05:11] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eAnd then at the other end, we\u0026#8217;re getting questions around how is AI going to change the way that my organization interacts with customers? What is the impact of AI on my brand? If my brand is the most important asset to my organization, how can I protect my brand from this future? How can I make the best use of the assets that I have right now to leapfrog myself into a positive future? Or do I have the right capabilities in my organization going forward based on the way that AI is reshaping my whole industry? Or what\u0026#8217;s the business model for products and services if AI is changing the way that customers interact with the products and services that I am delivering right now? So, we\u0026#8217;re getting a lot of questions at the business model and the organizational level too and the brand level, where organizations are asking us to help them define how AI is going to influence their future strategy, their future business model, the brand. So, we\u0026#8217;re getting it at both ends of the spectrum. So, there\u0026#8217;s a lot of questions coming in on how AI is going to influence the future of our clients’ businesses.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:06:19] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eThese questions around delivery, efficiency and strategy are defining the conversations we\u0026#8217;re having with clients about AI, ultimately, moving from theory to implementation is, at its core, a design challenge.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:06:31] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eWe\u0026#8217;re doing a lot of work right now to implement AI solutions in organizations and the reason that they\u0026#8217;re coming to us for that is that they want us to look at how journeys are laid out. Sometimes these organizations don\u0026#8217;tunderstand themselves how a journey is delivered. And so, they\u0026#8217;ll come to us and we\u0026#8217;ll be the single source of truth of how a journey actually functions end to end. And it\u0026#8217;s a discovery process for everyone, basically, being able to map out how something is delivered and so being able to not assume that because a process is mapped out in a certain way, that\u0026#8217;s how something gets done, I think is one of the core kind of tenants of design. And, you know, I think you know of design thinking, it\u0026#8217;s actually finding out how the different parts of the puzzle fit together, talking to the people who are involved, bringing in the different elements that are part of delivery, not just assuming, because that\u0026#8217;s how things are written down, that\u0026#8217;s how they\u0026#8217;re delivered. Those kinds of programs where we\u0026#8217;re able to kind of connect the dots in a way that, in a way that an organization has never been able to as those are always my favorite kind of programs, those are the kinds of problems I like to solve, really. And as I said, increasingly, we\u0026#8217;re being asked to solve those problems and use AI to to help improve the way that services are delivered to customers, whether it\u0026#8217;s across B2C or B2B and that will mean creating more capacity in their organization to do better cost, to deliver better customer service or to do things faster or do things in a in a more cost effective way as well. So, I\u0026#8217;m very focused on the service design background, the thing that I\u0026#8217;m really motivated by is making sure that an organization is enabled to deliver on the promise that\u0026#8217;s made by the marketing that they put out into the world. Those are my favorite kinds of projects where we can help organizations to diagnose those kinds of problems and improve the way that they\u0026#8217;re delivering services to their customers or patients or guests or whoever it happens to be.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:08:29] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eTechnology is impacting how people interact with brands. A good example of this is the rise of large language models or LLMs. LLMs are, of course, becoming part of everyday life, changing how we shop, how we seek advice and how we make choices. And as Jess explains, organizations are having to adapt fast.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:08:48] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e The growth of LLMs as a tool has been extraordinary. I mean, I don\u0026#8217;t think we\u0026#8217;ve seen anything quite like it in our recent history.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eOver 50% of Americans are using LLMs in their daily life. So, they\u0026#8217;re using Claude, they\u0026#8217;re using ChatGPT, they\u0026#8217;re using Gemini, they\u0026#8217;re using Copilot and the vast majority of them are using them for online shopping. They\u0026#8217;reusing it for financial advice. They\u0026#8217;re using it for self-help. And then you know that that e-commerce use case where people are actually asking for recommendations or actually making purchases through LLMs has been a huge change to the way that we buy things online and there is a potential to disintermediate brands from their customers, because they\u0026#8217;re now making purchases through LLMs, rather than directly through the brand\u0026#8217;s application or the website\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:09:42] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e This has driven quite a lot of our clients to come to us and ask us to do work with them on the future of their organization, how AI is going to impact them. And so we have been applying our futurecasting methodologies to help them think through what a future could look like for them, where AI is taking a major role in how their organization functions basically. and in those scenarios, what we\u0026#8217;re doing is we\u0026#8217;re building out a variety of potential worlds where this business or this brand, this organization, has a different function, basically, and there are different consumer behaviors. There are 10 different potential business models. There are different organizational structures within these scenarios. and we\u0026#8217;re doing that to help this organization think through where do they want to place their bets, basically in a way that is not at the functional level but is very much at kind of a vision level for where they want to take their organization forward. So we\u0026#8217;re doing a lot of that work right now to help leaders think through how AI is going to impact their organization. And then we\u0026#8217;re also doing it at the functional level too. So, we\u0026#8217;re helping kind of customer leaders think about, what does it mean to be customer in this in this kind of age of generative AI, what is it? What are the implications for the marketing function?\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:11:05] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e So, we\u0026#8217;re helping organizations think through what are the implications of this for their brands? How do they find customers? How do they share new products and services? How do they make sure that they\u0026#8217;re showing up in these LLMs in the way that they had intended? So, you know, there\u0026#8217;s even new fields emerging, like GEO, which is generative engine optimization, where we\u0026#8217;re helping clients understand the impact of that on their brands as well.\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eAnd then we\u0026#8217;re also using tools like AI readiness assessments at a functional level to kind of the top down of the futurecasting with the bottom up of the AI readiness to actually put a practical plan together to help the organization move forward.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:11:43] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eBut as new AI tools spring up and become universally accessible, what truly differentiates one organization from another is how effectively they apply them.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:11:53] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e It is the secret sauce question, huh? It\u0026#8217;s like, if you have the same tools, how do you get to a different outcome? And it\u0026#8217;s about the people who are applying them still, and the way that you bring different skills together to apply those tools. So, I think one of the differentiators that I always talk about why frog is special is the way that we bring different disciplines together and the way that we are. Think about strategy from a making and an experimentation standpoint, rather than a theoretical standpoint. And so, I think that that continues in this age, the tools are different. So, we\u0026#8217;re using different AI tools and that is reshaping the way that we think about how products and services are being delivered. And you know, it\u0026#8217;s going to change UX paradigms and it\u0026#8217;s going to change the future of what products and services look like and the way that we use those tools now at frog depends on the way that, you know, we think about running our programs, the people that we have in our teams, the way that we leverage our previous history as well.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:12:58] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e I always say that being a frog, it\u0026#8217;s like a positive virus. You kind of learn to be a frog by being in contact with other frogs and so the virus gets passed on. It\u0026#8217;s a, it\u0026#8217;s a, it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s one of those things that is just very, very specialabout this place, that and it\u0026#8217;s and it\u0026#8217;s learned from other frogs. And so, you know that\u0026#8217;s what makes it different. I think you could, you could use the same tools, but come to a different outcome, I think and it\u0026#8217;s to do with the people and the learnings and how those have been passed down through kind of generations of frogs and the different types of skills that we have that we bring together in different ways. And it\u0026#8217;s just unique, I think, to this particular organization.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:13:34] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eWe’re going to take a short break. When we return, Jess will tell us about how she’s using AI not just at work, but in her everyday life. She will also talk about the concept of vibe-coding and the limitations of AI.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"ID":86210,"id":86210,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","filesize":77251,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":85084,"date":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","modified":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-150x150.jpg","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-300x287.jpg","medium-width":300,"medium-height":287,"medium_large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-768x735.jpg","medium_large-width":640,"medium_large-height":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-1024x980.jpg","large-width":640,"large-height":613,"1536x1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","1536x1536-width":1268,"1536x1536-height":1214,"2048x2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","2048x2048-width":1268,"2048x2048-height":1214}},"description":"For more on the co-evolution between humans and AI download our latest frog report ‘Futurescape: Artificial Realities.’ ","report_link":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry","type":"internal"}},{"acf_fc_layout":"long_form_text_block","text_content":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:04:18] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e Now back to Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America. We asked Jess just how often she thinks people should be using AI.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:14:22] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e All day, every day. I think that it is essential for anyone in the design industry to be using it. I think that it is reshaping consulting as an industry, reshaping agencies. I think that it is absolutely essential that everyone is making use of it. I mean it\u0026#8217;s a tool that I think accelerates everything in your daily life. I\u0026#8217;m using it for work. I\u0026#8217;m using it for fun. I\u0026#8217;m using it to do things that I had never been able to do in the past. I\u0026#8217;m using it for just, just to make your life a little bit better. I was, I was telling someone the other day, I live in the Bay Area and, you know, summer here is not the best, especially in San Francisco\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e. it gets a bit gloomy. And so, I spend a lot of time looking at the different parts of the Bay Area where it\u0026#8217;s sunny and where it\u0026#8217;s going to be potentially sunny on the weekend. And so, I built a little web app using a couple of applications like Lovable and a few other applications to help me forecast where I should be driving to on the weekend, where it\u0026#8217;s going to be sunny and where I can take my kid to go swimming. So, it gives me a recommendation of where it\u0026#8217;s going to be closer to 80 degrees and that just makes my life a little bit better. Instead of having to flick between all of these different locations and spend my time doing that, it gives me kind of a little customized recommendation. You know, being able to do those kinds of things for myself is amazing. It really just makes my life a little bit better. And everyone is going to be able to do that. So, there\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s really, again, democratizing product and product building and allowing people to bring to life things that they\u0026#8217;re imagining in a way that they\u0026#8217;ve never been able to do before. And so, for designers who have these huge imaginations, to be able to use some of these tools to bring those ideas to life is just exciting. And it\u0026#8217;s an extraordinary time to be, to be in this field.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:16:16] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e New AI tools allow people with little to no technical background to build digital products, and it\u0026#8217;s already changing the way people prototype and test ideas thanks to a process called vibe coding.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:16:26] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e Vibe coding was a term that was coined by a computer scientist and the co-founder of OpenAI Andrej Karpathy. And he used the term to describe a coding approach that relies heavily on AI, where you\u0026#8217;re basically using natural language prompts to generate the code rather than manually writing the code, essentially giving the vibes of what you are trying to do, instead of writing the specific code. And so yeah, so it\u0026#8217;s using AI to generate code based on natural language descriptions. And so there\u0026#8217;s no detailed coding associated with it, but that you are using natural language-based prompts basically to come up with the code, basically\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:17:11] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e It\u0026#8217;s building a little application based on prompts that come from you. And then, you know, at the back end, then you\u0026#8217;re connecting up some APIs and set it up like you would any other kind of web app but what it\u0026#8217;s doing is accelerating the build process. So it\u0026#8217;s taking, you know, it\u0026#8217;s taking a lot of the effort away that you would have around building some of these, like just bringing to life and prototyping, some of these ideas that otherwise would seem a little bit too heavy lift to have a go at building. Do you know, the other thing that it\u0026#8217;s really helpful for is, you know, when we are putting proposals together or trying to prove out a different ideas, it’s being able to use those kinds of tools to actually see if an idea works and make it and bring it to life is huge.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:17:55] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e So those ideas that you have where you\u0026#8217;re like, Oh, I wonder if that would work. And so it\u0026#8217;s a really fun, easy way to try those kinds of ideas that you come up with in the middle of the night and you\u0026#8217;re like, would that work? And so, there are tons of tools that have sprung up to enable this kind of vibe coding. And, you know, Lovable is one of those tools that is that\u0026#8217;s very popular for it and it\u0026#8217;s increasingly making its way into the suite of tools that the professional kind of design consulting industry are using.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:18:22] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e These tools are also just revolutionizing industries like marketing and the way that content is being created, the way that content is being managed. So it\u0026#8217;s hugely impactful.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:18:31] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e But even with all this innovation, there’s still something deeply human at the core of design. This is something Jess brings into focus as she reflects on the limitations of AI.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:18:40] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003eIt\u0026#8217;s very early days and I and I think that there is, I think there\u0026#8217;s a lot of hype and I think that there are a lot of use cases that are yet to be proven out. I think that humans are intensely interested in other humans. And I think thatthat\u0026#8217;s not going away. And I think that when we are in situations where we are where there\u0026#8217;s emotion involved, where we want something that feels high quality, where we want to feel looked after. There\u0026#8217;s no substitute for another human.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:19:12] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e A great example of where there was an early move or where I think that there is a sign that humans still are in the are in the lead. Another preference is when there is emotion involved, when there are tricky questions to be answered, where there is some discomfort\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e. And so I think we\u0026#8217;re still, you know, we\u0026#8217;re still very far away from AI proving out a number of different use cases, in particular, in those places where people are looking for human connection, emotion and, yeah, it\u0026#8217;s just not going away our interest in other humans that that\u0026#8217;s, I think that\u0026#8217;s forever.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:19:44] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e While the importance of human connection remains constant, design itself continues to evolve. One significant shift is how design has moved from being seen as a support function to becoming a strategic force. Jess explores this transformation in more detail.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:20:00] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e As a function over time, I think design has been promoted within organizations to really sit alongside kind of product and technology as this kind of essential tool for innovation and transformation. And so in particular during the pandemic, I think we saw design really promoted and, you know, as the pandemic acted this, this kind of catalyst for digital maturity, we saw organizations really reroute a lot of investments into digital channels and do a lot of hiring into design and also in product and tech to build out these channels. And, you know, I think we saw a lot of organizations hit that first stage of their kind of digital transformation goals throughout, you know, during the pandemic and I think that changed our expectations as consumers permanently, you know, that really raised our expectations up. That was a huge turning point for the design industry, I think. But after, after that period of time, I think what happened was that organizations realized that they spent more on digital and on design than they were planning to spend and perhaps hired more people than they had anticipated hiring and you know, that they had, you know, there were some organizations that had kind of sprung design and technology and product teams up in lots of different parts of the organization. And you know, there was increasing levels of complexity, I think, and perhaps had found that it was more difficult to manage those teams than they had anticipated. And you know, despite all the hiring, there were organizations who were finding that there were capability gaps and they were really struggling to kind of orchestrate and to see kind of a return on investment, on all the capital that had been invested into into these teams. And you know that this was leading to kind of some delays in, you know, not just that, not the first wave of their digital transformation goals, but kind of the next wave. \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:21:37] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e I think what has happened now is that organizations are really looking for help to kind of streamline and scale and improve the quality of their in-house teams and and we\u0026#8217;re seeing a real change in investment focus away from these kind of like piecemeal innovation oriented projects and and towards more kind of longer term strategic partnerships and and programs focused on kind of fixing essential issues and and, you know, the leaders in the design space are much more varied and they\u0026#8217;ve really matured into experts and they bring a lot higher expectations of impact to their existing design teams and to the partners that they\u0026#8217;re working with. And then, of course, you know, AI is driving an expectation that design teams move faster and that they have that there\u0026#8217;s more explorations and more directions and they\u0026#8217;re doing things at a higher quality, and everything is just moving faster than ever. And then you know, at the same time, we\u0026#8217;re also seeing more offshoring and near shoring happening and that those teams have increasingly high-quality delivery. And so, you know, there are just improvements that need to be made to these to overall design capabilities, to make sure that the impact of investments\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003ein digital are realized.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:22:48] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e And as expectations rise, so does the need for smarter partnerships. Jess shares how frog is helping organizations scale design and embed it into how they work and grow.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:22:58] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e We\u0026#8217;re in a place where to maintain competitive advantage. Leading organizations that we\u0026#8217;re working with, are kind of looking for a different type of design partner and a different type of design partnership and they don\u0026#8217;t want bodies. They need expert services and they want an organization that\u0026#8217;s going to have a long-term relationship with them and a long term partner to improve the quality and the speed of delivery of their own teams. and I think that this is driven from, you know, an increase in the expertise of these buyers, but also that, the types of things, the problems that we\u0026#8217;re working on are more complicated. They can\u0026#8217;t be solved in just one program over an eight to 12-week period of time. They require a much longer relationship so that we can understand who the customer is, who are their stakeholders and who their end customer is and that\u0026#8217;s what these buyers want now. So you know, we\u0026#8217;re really getting this asked to partner in a different way and, you know, so that\u0026#8217;s why we\u0026#8217;re, we\u0026#8217;re doing a lot more of these kinds of design partnerships and it\u0026#8217;s really an offer to that\u0026#8217;s customized for each organization to help them scale and amplify the impact of design within their organization. And basically, whatwe do is we look at how the design teams strategy is set up, how they\u0026#8217;re orchestrated and how that\u0026#8217;s kind of aligned to the rest of the organization. We help the team understand how they\u0026#8217;re hiring and developing and growing and retaining the right talent. We help them look at the design execution. So how do they set up their metrics and how are they set up to get to the right results? We help them understand the best way to set up their design ops, so implementing and, you know, scaling up their governance and and also, you know, the the practical processes around setting up design ops in a way that is that makes sense in, you know, this kind of AI influence world. And then we also help them to work on, obviously, their design systems and how to scale the return on investment in their products and the the design team using design systems. helping organizations to really embed and make the best use out of their design team and really leverage everything that we\u0026#8217;ve learned from having our own investment in designers and design culture for over 50 years.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:25:07] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e So, what do you do when the future feels like it’s arriving faster than you can plan for it? Jess has some thoughts and a few words of encouragement for anyone wondering how to move forward without getting swept up in the hype.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:25:18] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e I think that you need to start trying things and whether that is trying things on yourself to start, I\u0026#8217;m seeing a lot of clients have success trying some of these new products and tools internally first and getting some great results, but don\u0026#8217;t, don\u0026#8217;t just wait. I think that it\u0026#8217;s really important to take action and start experimenting and I think you can do that in a way that is controlled and I also would say don\u0026#8217;t let the pace of change create too much anxiety in your organization. I think that there is a lot of hype, too. There are cycles of hype. And I, you know, one of the things I\u0026#8217;ve been saying a lot recently is that, you know, organizations adopt things at different rates and they always have and they always will. There are some organizations who haven\u0026#8217;t moved to cloud yet. So there are different rates of change that are appropriate for different organizations.\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003eAnd I think the important thing is to start trying and not be paralyzed and to not overthink things and to try what makes sense for your organization, for your context and where you are strategically. That would be my advice. I think, you know, have a bias towards action, but don\u0026#8217;t get caught up in the hype.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:26:29] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download frog’s new \u003c/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eFuturescape report.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/a\u003e \u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e\u003cspan class=\"TextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e[00:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e26\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e42\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cspan class=\"TextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e We really want to thank our guest, Jess Leitch, Head of \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun ContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2Themed SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003efrog\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e North America. \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/span\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e Spotify \u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s frog.co. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"divider","full_width":true},{"acf_fc_layout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"ID":36590,"post_author":"16","post_date":"2021-10-11 18:51:43","post_date_gmt":"2021-10-11 18:51:43","post_content":"","post_title":"Jess Leitch","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"jessica-leitch","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2024-11-08 17:01:38","post_modified_gmt":"2024-11-08 17:01:38","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=36590","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Jess Leitch","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of frog North America, Jess is responsible for leading the frog business in North America. 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In London, she received her Masters in Service Design.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Head of frog North America","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":36591,"id":36591,"title":"jessica-leitch","filename":"jessica-leitch.png","filesize":61348,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/attachment/jessica-leitch/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jessica-leitch","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":36590,"date":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","modified":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":500,"height":500,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-150x150.png","thumbnail-width":150,"thumbnail-height":150,"medium":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-300x300.png","medium-width":300,"medium-height":300,"medium_large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","medium_large-width":500,"medium_large-height":500,"large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","large-width":500,"large-height":500,"1536x1536":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","1536x1536-width":500,"1536x1536-height":500,"2048x2048":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","2048x2048-width":500,"2048x2048-height":500}}},"author_featured":""},"post_url_slug":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/"},{"ID":16815,"post_author":"16","post_date":"2020-11-20 23:18:33","post_date_gmt":"2020-11-20 23:18:33","post_content":"","post_title":"Elizabeth Wood","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"elizabeth-wood","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2023-08-20 08:53:37","post_modified_gmt":"2023-08-20 08:53:37","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"https://www.frogdesign.com/?post_type=authors\u0026#038;p=16815","menu_order":0,"post_type":"authors","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw","acf":{"author_header":{"author_name":"Elizabeth Wood","bio":"\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eElizabeth tells design stories for frog. She first joined the New York studio in 2011, working on multidisciplinary teams to design award-winning products and services. Today, Elizabeth works out of the London studio on the global frog marketing team, leading editorial content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eShe has written and edited hundreds of articles about design and technology, and has given talks on the role of content in a weird, digital world. Her work has been published in \u003ci\u003eThe Content Strategist\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eUNDO-Ordinary\u003c/i\u003e magazine and the book \u003ci\u003eAlone Together: Tales of Sisterhood and Solitude in Latin America\u003c/i\u003e (Bogotá International Press).\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003ePreviously, Elizabeth was Communications Manager for UN OCHA’s Centre for Humanitarian Data in The Hague. She is a graduate of the Master’s Programme for Creative Writing at Birkbeck College, University of London.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Host, Design Mind frogcast \u0026 Editorial Director, frog Global Marketing","twitter_profile_link":"","medium_profile_link":"","author_image":{"ID":21629,"id":21629,"title":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2","filename":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","filesize":61336,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/12203718/Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/elizabeth-wood/attachment/elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2/","alt":"","author":"22","description":"","caption":"","name":"elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":16815,"date":"2021-03-12 20:37:18","modified":"2021-03-12 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Mind frogcast Ep.58 – When Human Connection Meets AI","description":"Our Guest: Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America","topicsTitle":"","topics":false,"author":"Podcast","hideModule":false,"hidePost":false,"slugOverride":""}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOn this episode of the Design Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e we welcome Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America, to talk about how design is evolving in an AI-shaped world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eJess traces her transition from consulting to experimentation-led design. She also discusses vibe coding, the opening up of creative tools and how AI is redefining brand relationships and business models.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eListen to the podcast episode and watch the full video below. You can also find the \u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e and anywhere you listen to podcasts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eFor more on the co-evolution between humans and AI download our latest frog \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003eFuturescape report ‘Artificial Realities.’\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" height=\"200px\" width=\"100%\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless src=\"https://player.simplecast.com/a6930f94-613f-4978-85ea-687e82e83ece?dark=true\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode Transcript:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDesign Mind frogcast\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEpisode 58:\u003c/strong\u003e When Human Connection Meets AI\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuest:\u003c/strong\u003e Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:00:03] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eWelcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:00:19] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eToday on our show, we\u0026#8217;re talking about the role of design in a world increasingly impacted by AI. To do this, we\u0026#8217;re joined by Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America. Jess shares her journey from traditional consulting to design leadership, driven by a desire to challenge assumptions and embrace experimentation. She also discusses the rise of vibe coding, open access to creative tools and how AI is reshaping brand interactions and business models.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:00:45] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eJess also played an important role in this year\u0026#8217;s frog \u003c/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eFuturescape report\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e titled ‘Artificial Realities,’ which explores 12 predictions and provocations on the future of human-AI chemistry. Here\u0026#8217;s Jess now sharing more about how she\u0026#8217;s using the report with clients and why it matters when it comes to developing business strategy. \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:0\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e1\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e:0\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e4\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003eI think that it\u0026#8217;s really tricky if you\u0026#8217;re in a large organization\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e,\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e to take the time to think about what\u0026#8217;s happening next year, let alone in the next five to 10 years. This report can help with that. I think that that is that\u0026#8217;s hugely beneficial, and that\u0026#8217;s been the way that we have been using it, and I\u0026#8217;m bringing it to board meetings or meetings with C-suite to have conversations with people about: How do you think that this is going to apply?  Like what of these scenarios feels relevant to you? And what of these, you know, potential futures, can you see impact in your business?\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:01:38] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003ePeople just don\u0026#8217;t really get the opportunity to do that in these kind of quarterly reporting cycles that most businesses are in. So being able to take a moment and to stop and think about what those future scenarios could look like are just, it\u0026#8217;s invaluable. And to do that with us, with the people who have been thinking about this and, you know, who are incredibly passionate about what some of these future scenarios could look like and with the implications \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eof some of these scenarios playing out, I think is, is the best way to do it.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:02:06] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003eMy name is Jess Leitch and I\u0026#8217;m the Head of frog in North America. So, I run all of the frog teams out of the US and Mexico.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:0\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e2\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e1\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e5\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eOriginally I moved into design because I started my career in consulting, actually and I, I think I grew frustrated with the advice that we were giving to clients and the way that we were going into their organizations and applying our assumptions and looking for the answers to support the assumptions that we were making and I was looking for something that would make less assumptions\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e,\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003ef\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eor a process, for a way of thinking that would be less assumptions-based and so design as a field really appealed to me for that reason. That we weren\u0026#8217;t going to make assumptions about what someone would like or what would fill a need. We would actually go in and test that and experiment and we wouldn\u0026#8217;t assume. We wouldn\u0026#8217;t take a template from one organization and try and apply it to another. And I really loved that about design and so deliberately made a choice to move away from more traditional strategy consulting, and, you know, customer consulting, towards, you know, at the time, more design thinking. And I honestly never looked back. It\u0026#8217;s an amazing tool for innovation. And it helps you to see things that you would never see otherwise. And I think that it is when combined with, you know, technology and the other tools or even sometimes combined with more traditional strategy methods, honestly. From a business model standpoint, I think that it is, it moves, it moves markets, industries and people forward.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:03:49] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eThat shift away from an assumption based approach is one that many organizations are making, especially as they explore emerging technologies in a move toward experimentation driven strategies, the questions clients ask our frog teams have also started to change,\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:04:03] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eI think at the moment, the top question that clients ask relates to AI and it\u0026#8217;s coming from two ends of the spectrum. So at one end the question is, how can I use AI to improve the delivery of my services, so that I do a better job for my customers, so that I increase the capacity of my customer support teams, of my operations teams, of my delivery teams, so that I reduce the time to serve, so that I reduce the cost to serve. Can you tell me, throughout my journey, where I should be using AI to help me do better by my customers, do better by my organization. So, one end, we\u0026#8217;re getting a lot of those kinds of requests for, you know, what the best tools are in AI, help me understand that and help me work out where I should be implementing that within my organization. And you know, we actually have some amazing case studies already where we have increased efficiency by 1,000% from some of the recommendations that we\u0026#8217;ve made that our clients have gone ahead and implemented. \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:05:11] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eAnd then at the other end, we\u0026#8217;re getting questions around how is AI going to change the way that my organization interacts with customers? What is the impact of AI on my brand? If my brand is the most important asset to my organization, how can I protect my brand from this future? How can I make the best use of the assets that I have right now to leapfrog myself into a positive future? Or do I have the right capabilities in my organization going forward based on the way that AI is reshaping my whole industry? Or what\u0026#8217;s the business model for products and services if AI is changing the way that customers interact with the products and services that I am delivering right now? So, we\u0026#8217;re getting a lot of questions at the business model and the organizational level too and the brand level, where organizations are asking us to help them define how AI is going to influence their future strategy, their future business model, the brand. So, we\u0026#8217;re getting it at both ends of the spectrum. So, there\u0026#8217;s a lot of questions coming in on how AI is going to influence the future of our clients’ businesses.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:06:19] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eThese questions around delivery, efficiency and strategy are defining the conversations we\u0026#8217;re having with clients about AI, ultimately, moving from theory to implementation is, at its core, a design challenge.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:06:31] Jess Leitch: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eWe\u0026#8217;re doing a lot of work right now to implement AI solutions in organizations and the reason that they\u0026#8217;re coming to us for that is that they want us to look at how journeys are laid out. Sometimes these organizations don\u0026#8217;tunderstand themselves how a journey is delivered. And so, they\u0026#8217;ll come to us and we\u0026#8217;ll be the single source of truth of how a journey actually functions end to end. And it\u0026#8217;s a discovery process for everyone, basically, being able to map out how something is delivered and so being able to not assume that because a process is mapped out in a certain way, that\u0026#8217;s how something gets done, I think is one of the core kind of tenants of design. And, you know, I think you know of design thinking, it\u0026#8217;s actually finding out how the different parts of the puzzle fit together, talking to the people who are involved, bringing in the different elements that are part of delivery, not just assuming, because that\u0026#8217;s how things are written down, that\u0026#8217;s how they\u0026#8217;re delivered. Those kinds of programs where we\u0026#8217;re able to kind of connect the dots in a way that, in a way that an organization has never been able to as those are always my favorite kind of programs, those are the kinds of problems I like to solve, really. And as I said, increasingly, we\u0026#8217;re being asked to solve those problems and use AI to to help improve the way that services are delivered to customers, whether it\u0026#8217;s across B2C or B2B and that will mean creating more capacity in their organization to do better cost, to deliver better customer service or to do things faster or do things in a in a more cost effective way as well. So, I\u0026#8217;m very focused on the service design background, the thing that I\u0026#8217;m really motivated by is making sure that an organization is enabled to deliver on the promise that\u0026#8217;s made by the marketing that they put out into the world. Those are my favorite kinds of projects where we can help organizations to diagnose those kinds of problems and improve the way that they\u0026#8217;re delivering services to their customers or patients or guests or whoever it happens to be.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:08:29] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eTechnology is impacting how people interact with brands. A good example of this is the rise of large language models or LLMs. LLMs are, of course, becoming part of everyday life, changing how we shop, how we seek advice and how we make choices. And as Jess explains, organizations are having to adapt fast.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:08:48] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e The growth of LLMs as a tool has been extraordinary. I mean, I don\u0026#8217;t think we\u0026#8217;ve seen anything quite like it in our recent history.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eOver 50% of Americans are using LLMs in their daily life. So, they\u0026#8217;re using Claude, they\u0026#8217;re using ChatGPT, they\u0026#8217;re using Gemini, they\u0026#8217;re using Copilot and the vast majority of them are using them for online shopping. They\u0026#8217;reusing it for financial advice. They\u0026#8217;re using it for self-help. And then you know that that e-commerce use case where people are actually asking for recommendations or actually making purchases through LLMs has been a huge change to the way that we buy things online and there is a potential to disintermediate brands from their customers, because they\u0026#8217;re now making purchases through LLMs, rather than directly through the brand\u0026#8217;s application or the website\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:09:42] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e This has driven quite a lot of our clients to come to us and ask us to do work with them on the future of their organization, how AI is going to impact them. And so we have been applying our futurecasting methodologies to help them think through what a future could look like for them, where AI is taking a major role in how their organization functions basically. and in those scenarios, what we\u0026#8217;re doing is we\u0026#8217;re building out a variety of potential worlds where this business or this brand, this organization, has a different function, basically, and there are different consumer behaviors. There are 10 different potential business models. There are different organizational structures within these scenarios. and we\u0026#8217;re doing that to help this organization think through where do they want to place their bets, basically in a way that is not at the functional level but is very much at kind of a vision level for where they want to take their organization forward. So we\u0026#8217;re doing a lot of that work right now to help leaders think through how AI is going to impact their organization. And then we\u0026#8217;re also doing it at the functional level too. So, we\u0026#8217;re helping kind of customer leaders think about, what does it mean to be customer in this in this kind of age of generative AI, what is it? What are the implications for the marketing function?\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:11:05] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e So, we\u0026#8217;re helping organizations think through what are the implications of this for their brands? How do they find customers? How do they share new products and services? How do they make sure that they\u0026#8217;re showing up in these LLMs in the way that they had intended? So, you know, there\u0026#8217;s even new fields emerging, like GEO, which is generative engine optimization, where we\u0026#8217;re helping clients understand the impact of that on their brands as well.\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eAnd then we\u0026#8217;re also using tools like AI readiness assessments at a functional level to kind of the top down of the futurecasting with the bottom up of the AI readiness to actually put a practical plan together to help the organization move forward.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:11:43] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eBut as new AI tools spring up and become universally accessible, what truly differentiates one organization from another is how effectively they apply them.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:11:53] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e It is the secret sauce question, huh? It\u0026#8217;s like, if you have the same tools, how do you get to a different outcome? And it\u0026#8217;s about the people who are applying them still, and the way that you bring different skills together to apply those tools. So, I think one of the differentiators that I always talk about why frog is special is the way that we bring different disciplines together and the way that we are. Think about strategy from a making and an experimentation standpoint, rather than a theoretical standpoint. And so, I think that that continues in this age, the tools are different. So, we\u0026#8217;re using different AI tools and that is reshaping the way that we think about how products and services are being delivered. And you know, it\u0026#8217;s going to change UX paradigms and it\u0026#8217;s going to change the future of what products and services look like and the way that we use those tools now at frog depends on the way that, you know, we think about running our programs, the people that we have in our teams, the way that we leverage our previous history as well.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:12:58] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e I always say that being a frog, it\u0026#8217;s like a positive virus. You kind of learn to be a frog by being in contact with other frogs and so the virus gets passed on. It\u0026#8217;s a, it\u0026#8217;s a, it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s one of those things that is just very, very specialabout this place, that and it\u0026#8217;s and it\u0026#8217;s learned from other frogs. And so, you know that\u0026#8217;s what makes it different. I think you could, you could use the same tools, but come to a different outcome, I think and it\u0026#8217;s to do with the people and the learnings and how those have been passed down through kind of generations of frogs and the different types of skills that we have that we bring together in different ways. And it\u0026#8217;s just unique, I think, to this particular organization.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:13:34] Elizabeth Wood: \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eWe’re going to take a short break. When we return, Jess will tell us about how she’s using AI not just at work, but in her everyday life. She will also talk about the concept of vibe-coding and the limitations of AI.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"report_link_out_block","image":{"id":86210,"title":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","filename":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","filesize":77251,"url":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-the-future-of-customer-experience/attachment/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":85084,"date":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","modified":"2026-03-04 17:31:32","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":1268,"height":1214,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-150x150.jpg","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-300x287.jpg","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":287,"mediumLarge":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-768x735.jpg","mediumLargeWidth":640,"mediumLargeHeight":613,"large":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape-1024x980.jpg","largeWidth":640,"largeHeight":613,"1536X1536":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","1536X1536Width":1268,"1536X1536Height":1214,"2048X2048":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/design-mind-frogcast-ep-56-futurescape.jpg","2048X2048Width":1268,"2048X2048Height":1214}},"description":"For more on the co-evolution between humans and AI download our latest frog report ‘Futurescape: Artificial Realities.’ ","reportLink":{"label":"Download the Report","url":"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry","type":"internal"}},{"acfFcLayout":"long_form_text_block","textContent":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:04:18] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e Now back to Jess Leitch, Head of frog North America. We asked Jess just how often she thinks people should be using AI.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:14:22] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e All day, every day. I think that it is essential for anyone in the design industry to be using it. I think that it is reshaping consulting as an industry, reshaping agencies. I think that it is absolutely essential that everyone is making use of it. I mean it\u0026#8217;s a tool that I think accelerates everything in your daily life. I\u0026#8217;m using it for work. I\u0026#8217;m using it for fun. I\u0026#8217;m using it to do things that I had never been able to do in the past. I\u0026#8217;m using it for just, just to make your life a little bit better. I was, I was telling someone the other day, I live in the Bay Area and, you know, summer here is not the best, especially in San Francisco\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e. it gets a bit gloomy. And so, I spend a lot of time looking at the different parts of the Bay Area where it\u0026#8217;s sunny and where it\u0026#8217;s going to be potentially sunny on the weekend. And so, I built a little web app using a couple of applications like Lovable and a few other applications to help me forecast where I should be driving to on the weekend, where it\u0026#8217;s going to be sunny and where I can take my kid to go swimming. So, it gives me a recommendation of where it\u0026#8217;s going to be closer to 80 degrees and that just makes my life a little bit better. Instead of having to flick between all of these different locations and spend my time doing that, it gives me kind of a little customized recommendation. You know, being able to do those kinds of things for myself is amazing. It really just makes my life a little bit better. And everyone is going to be able to do that. So, there\u0026#8217;s, it\u0026#8217;s really, again, democratizing product and product building and allowing people to bring to life things that they\u0026#8217;re imagining in a way that they\u0026#8217;ve never been able to do before. And so, for designers who have these huge imaginations, to be able to use some of these tools to bring those ideas to life is just exciting. And it\u0026#8217;s an extraordinary time to be, to be in this field.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:16:16] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e New AI tools allow people with little to no technical background to build digital products, and it\u0026#8217;s already changing the way people prototype and test ideas thanks to a process called vibe coding.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:16:26] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e Vibe coding was a term that was coined by a computer scientist and the co-founder of OpenAI Andrej Karpathy. And he used the term to describe a coding approach that relies heavily on AI, where you\u0026#8217;re basically using natural language prompts to generate the code rather than manually writing the code, essentially giving the vibes of what you are trying to do, instead of writing the specific code. And so yeah, so it\u0026#8217;s using AI to generate code based on natural language descriptions. And so there\u0026#8217;s no detailed coding associated with it, but that you are using natural language-based prompts basically to come up with the code, basically\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:17:11] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e It\u0026#8217;s building a little application based on prompts that come from you. And then, you know, at the back end, then you\u0026#8217;re connecting up some APIs and set it up like you would any other kind of web app but what it\u0026#8217;s doing is accelerating the build process. So it\u0026#8217;s taking, you know, it\u0026#8217;s taking a lot of the effort away that you would have around building some of these, like just bringing to life and prototyping, some of these ideas that otherwise would seem a little bit too heavy lift to have a go at building. Do you know, the other thing that it\u0026#8217;s really helpful for is, you know, when we are putting proposals together or trying to prove out a different ideas, it’s being able to use those kinds of tools to actually see if an idea works and make it and bring it to life is huge.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:17:55] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e So those ideas that you have where you\u0026#8217;re like, Oh, I wonder if that would work. And so it\u0026#8217;s a really fun, easy way to try those kinds of ideas that you come up with in the middle of the night and you\u0026#8217;re like, would that work? And so, there are tons of tools that have sprung up to enable this kind of vibe coding. And, you know, Lovable is one of those tools that is that\u0026#8217;s very popular for it and it\u0026#8217;s increasingly making its way into the suite of tools that the professional kind of design consulting industry are using.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:18:22] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e These tools are also just revolutionizing industries like marketing and the way that content is being created, the way that content is being managed. So it\u0026#8217;s hugely impactful.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:18:31] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e But even with all this innovation, there’s still something deeply human at the core of design. This is something Jess brings into focus as she reflects on the limitations of AI.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:18:40] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003eIt\u0026#8217;s very early days and I and I think that there is, I think there\u0026#8217;s a lot of hype and I think that there are a lot of use cases that are yet to be proven out. I think that humans are intensely interested in other humans. And I think thatthat\u0026#8217;s not going away. And I think that when we are in situations where we are where there\u0026#8217;s emotion involved, where we want something that feels high quality, where we want to feel looked after. There\u0026#8217;s no substitute for another human.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:19:12] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e A great example of where there was an early move or where I think that there is a sign that humans still are in the are in the lead. Another preference is when there is emotion involved, when there are tricky questions to be answered, where there is some discomfort\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e. And so I think we\u0026#8217;re still, you know, we\u0026#8217;re still very far away from AI proving out a number of different use cases, in particular, in those places where people are looking for human connection, emotion and, yeah, it\u0026#8217;s just not going away our interest in other humans that that\u0026#8217;s, I think that\u0026#8217;s forever.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:19:44] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e While the importance of human connection remains constant, design itself continues to evolve. One significant shift is how design has moved from being seen as a support function to becoming a strategic force. Jess explores this transformation in more detail.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:20:00] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e As a function over time, I think design has been promoted within organizations to really sit alongside kind of product and technology as this kind of essential tool for innovation and transformation. And so in particular during the pandemic, I think we saw design really promoted and, you know, as the pandemic acted this, this kind of catalyst for digital maturity, we saw organizations really reroute a lot of investments into digital channels and do a lot of hiring into design and also in product and tech to build out these channels. And, you know, I think we saw a lot of organizations hit that first stage of their kind of digital transformation goals throughout, you know, during the pandemic and I think that changed our expectations as consumers permanently, you know, that really raised our expectations up. That was a huge turning point for the design industry, I think. But after, after that period of time, I think what happened was that organizations realized that they spent more on digital and on design than they were planning to spend and perhaps hired more people than they had anticipated hiring and you know, that they had, you know, there were some organizations that had kind of sprung design and technology and product teams up in lots of different parts of the organization. And you know, there was increasing levels of complexity, I think, and perhaps had found that it was more difficult to manage those teams than they had anticipated. And you know, despite all the hiring, there were organizations who were finding that there were capability gaps and they were really struggling to kind of orchestrate and to see kind of a return on investment, on all the capital that had been invested into into these teams. And you know that this was leading to kind of some delays in, you know, not just that, not the first wave of their digital transformation goals, but kind of the next wave. \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:21:37] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e I think what has happened now is that organizations are really looking for help to kind of streamline and scale and improve the quality of their in-house teams and and we\u0026#8217;re seeing a real change in investment focus away from these kind of like piecemeal innovation oriented projects and and towards more kind of longer term strategic partnerships and and programs focused on kind of fixing essential issues and and, you know, the leaders in the design space are much more varied and they\u0026#8217;ve really matured into experts and they bring a lot higher expectations of impact to their existing design teams and to the partners that they\u0026#8217;re working with. And then, of course, you know, AI is driving an expectation that design teams move faster and that they have that there\u0026#8217;s more explorations and more directions and they\u0026#8217;re doing things at a higher quality, and everything is just moving faster than ever. And then you know, at the same time, we\u0026#8217;re also seeing more offshoring and near shoring happening and that those teams have increasingly high-quality delivery. And so, you know, there are just improvements that need to be made to these to overall design capabilities, to make sure that the impact of investments\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003ein digital are realized.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:22:48] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e And as expectations rise, so does the need for smarter partnerships. Jess shares how frog is helping organizations scale design and embed it into how they work and grow.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:22:58] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e We\u0026#8217;re in a place where to maintain competitive advantage. Leading organizations that we\u0026#8217;re working with, are kind of looking for a different type of design partner and a different type of design partnership and they don\u0026#8217;t want bodies. They need expert services and they want an organization that\u0026#8217;s going to have a long-term relationship with them and a long term partner to improve the quality and the speed of delivery of their own teams. and I think that this is driven from, you know, an increase in the expertise of these buyers, but also that, the types of things, the problems that we\u0026#8217;re working on are more complicated. They can\u0026#8217;t be solved in just one program over an eight to 12-week period of time. They require a much longer relationship so that we can understand who the customer is, who are their stakeholders and who their end customer is and that\u0026#8217;s what these buyers want now. So you know, we\u0026#8217;re really getting this asked to partner in a different way and, you know, so that\u0026#8217;s why we\u0026#8217;re, we\u0026#8217;re doing a lot more of these kinds of design partnerships and it\u0026#8217;s really an offer to that\u0026#8217;s customized for each organization to help them scale and amplify the impact of design within their organization. And basically, whatwe do is we look at how the design teams strategy is set up, how they\u0026#8217;re orchestrated and how that\u0026#8217;s kind of aligned to the rest of the organization. We help the team understand how they\u0026#8217;re hiring and developing and growing and retaining the right talent. We help them look at the design execution. So how do they set up their metrics and how are they set up to get to the right results? We help them understand the best way to set up their design ops, so implementing and, you know, scaling up their governance and and also, you know, the the practical processes around setting up design ops in a way that is that makes sense in, you know, this kind of AI influence world. And then we also help them to work on, obviously, their design systems and how to scale the return on investment in their products and the the design team using design systems. helping organizations to really embed and make the best use out of their design team and really leverage everything that we\u0026#8217;ve learned from having our own investment in designers and design culture for over 50 years.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:25:07] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e So, what do you do when the future feels like it’s arriving faster than you can plan for it? Jess has some thoughts and a few words of encouragement for anyone wondering how to move forward without getting swept up in the hype.\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e[00:25:18] Jess Leitch:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003e I think that you need to start trying things and whether that is trying things on yourself to start, I\u0026#8217;m seeing a lot of clients have success trying some of these new products and tools internally first and getting some great results, but don\u0026#8217;t, don\u0026#8217;t just wait. I think that it\u0026#8217;s really important to take action and start experimenting and I think you can do that in a way that is controlled and I also would say don\u0026#8217;t let the pace of change create too much anxiety in your organization. I think that there is a lot of hype, too. There are cycles of hype. And I, you know, one of the things I\u0026#8217;ve been saying a lot recently is that, you know, organizations adopt things at different rates and they always have and they always will. There are some organizations who haven\u0026#8217;t moved to cloud yet. So there are different rates of change that are appropriate for different organizations.\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003eAnd I think the important thing is to start trying and not be paralyzed and to not overthink things and to try what makes sense for your organization, for your context and where you are strategically. That would be my advice. I think, you know, have a bias towards action, but don\u0026#8217;t get caught up in the hype.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e[00:26:29] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e That’s our show. The Design Mind frogcast was brought to you by frog, a leading global creative consultancy that is part of Capgemini Invent. Check today’s show notes for transcripts and a link to download frog’s new \u003c/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind/futurescape-2026-artificial-realities-human-ai-chemistry\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan data-contrast=\"none\"\u003eFuturescape report.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/a\u003e \u003cspan data-ccp-props=\"{\u0026quot;201341983\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559739\u0026quot;:0,\u0026quot;335559740\u0026quot;:240}\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e\u003cspan class=\"TextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e[00:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e26\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e42\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e] Elizabeth Wood:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cspan class=\"TextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e We really want to thank our guest, Jess Leitch, Head of \u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun ContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2Themed SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003efrog\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW110452905 BCX4\"\u003e North America. \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/span\u003eWe also want to thank you, dear listener. If you like what you heard, tell your friends. Rate and review to help others find us on \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eApple Podcasts\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e Spotify \u003c/a\u003e. And be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Find lots more to think about from our global frog team at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/designmind\"\u003efrog.co/designmind\u003c/a\u003e. That’s frog.co. Follow frog on X at \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/frogdesign\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frogdesign\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/frog_design/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003e@frog_design\u003c/a\u003e on Instagram. And if you have any thoughts about the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out at \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/contact\"\u003efrog.co/contact\u003c/a\u003e. Thanks for listening. Now go \u003ca href=\"https://www.frog.co/make-your-mark\"\u003emake your mark\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n"},{"acfFcLayout":"divider","fullWidth":true},{"acfFcLayout":"author_credit_block","title":"Authors","credits":false,"illustration":{"title":"Audio Production by","creators":[{"label":"Steven Strange","url":"https://www.stevenstrange.com/"}]},"authors":[{"slug":"jessica-leitch","authorName":"Jess Leitch","bio":"\u003cp\u003eAs Head of frog North America, Jess is responsible for leading the frog business in North America. With a background in Service Design, Jess has spent the past 15 years leading teams in the design and launch of new products, services and businesses. Prior to frog, Jess was the Head of Service Design and Head of Studio at idean. Originally from Sydney, Australia, she lived in London for a number of years before moving to the US in 2019. In London, she received her Masters in Service Design.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Head of frog North America","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":36591,"title":"jessica-leitch","filename":"jessica-leitch.png","filesize":61348,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/jessica-leitch/attachment/jessica-leitch/","alt":"","author":"30","description":"","caption":"","name":"jessica-leitch","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":36590,"date":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","modified":"2021-10-11 18:51:34","menuOrder":0,"mimeType":"image/png","type":"image","subtype":"png","icon":"https://wp.frog.co/wp-includes/images/media/default.png","width":500,"height":500,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-150x150.png","thumbnailWidth":150,"thumbnailHeight":150,"medium":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch-300x300.png","mediumWidth":300,"mediumHeight":300,"mediumLarge":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","mediumLargeWidth":500,"mediumLargeHeight":500,"large":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","largeWidth":500,"largeHeight":500,"1536X1536":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","1536X1536Width":500,"1536X1536Height":500,"2048X2048":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/11185134/jessica-leitch.png","2048X2048Width":500,"2048X2048Height":500}}},{"slug":"elizabeth-wood","authorName":"Elizabeth Wood","bio":"\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eElizabeth tells design stories for frog. She first joined the New York studio in 2011, working on multidisciplinary teams to design award-winning products and services. Today, Elizabeth works out of the London studio on the global frog marketing team, leading editorial content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003eShe has written and edited hundreds of articles about design and technology, and has given talks on the role of content in a weird, digital world. Her work has been published in \u003ci\u003eThe Content Strategist\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eUNDO-Ordinary\u003c/i\u003e magazine and the book \u003ci\u003eAlone Together: Tales of Sisterhood and Solitude in Latin America\u003c/i\u003e (Bogotá International Press).\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp class=\"p1\"\u003ePreviously, Elizabeth was Communications Manager for UN OCHA’s Centre for Humanitarian Data in The Hague. She is a graduate of the Master’s Programme for Creative Writing at Birkbeck College, University of London.\u003c/p\u003e\n","designation":"Host, Design Mind frogcast \u0026 Editorial Director, frog Global Marketing","twitterProfileLink":"","mediumProfileLink":"","authorImage":{"id":21629,"title":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2","filename":"Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","filesize":61336,"url":"https://frogdesign.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/12203718/Elizabeth-Wood_Headshot-s2.jpg","link":"https://www.frog.co/authors/elizabeth-wood/attachment/elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2/","alt":"","author":"22","description":"","caption":"","name":"elizabeth-wood_headshot-s2","status":"inherit","uploadedTo":16815,"date":"2021-03-12 20:37:18","modified":"2021-03-12 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