Re: Religious Trauma is Trauma | ExChristian.Net

David B. — Thu, 07 May 2026 19:55:58 -0000

Also, it's funny that religion gets to be judgemental on our smallest flaws, but the mote in our eyes somehow obscures the beam in its?

James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

To which I say, do as you would be done by, and judge not lest you be judged. If you right hand offends you are supposed to cut it off, Katrina, not hold up your left and wag a finger at us!

Re: Religious Trauma is Trauma | ExChristian.Net

David B. — Thu, 07 May 2026 19:44:27 -0000

There are many interpretations of what it means to be Christian, and each of them comes with biblical justifications and ready apologists.

But all that happens is the "moderate" Christians, shield the others, they protect them by deflecting criticism while simultaneously doing nothing to stop them. Doing good in the name of Christianity can't excuse abetting or enabling abusive Christian behaviour, so why should anyone excuse the creed people use to justify their abuse because another person didn't use it so? How many soup kitchens does it take to excuse a "baby pit"?

So what happens is that the criticism of harmful Christian beliefs and actions is attacked, often with more enthusiasm than the beliefs or actions themselves ever were, by people who don't want to face the reality that what they believe is used to wound. "That's not fair, they cry, I'm not like that!"

If you're not good for you, but people with beliefs just as researched, just as supported, just as lauded and witnessed, are like that, and use the same "core rulebook" to play that way. When there's only one way to "be Christian", and everyone agrees on it, and it is good, then itwill be wrong to criticise the inspiration for what it inspired. Christianity is nowhere near that point, it doesn't even look to be heading in the right direction. Meanwhile every time someone points out the iceberg, fans of the ship rush to barricade the wheelhouse and prevent any change of course.

Re: How Did I Ever Believe Christianity Was True?

David B. — Thu, 07 May 2026 19:11:28 -0000

And where will we go when we leave this earth?

Mars probably. It's the nearest solid body that could potentially provide us with a self-sustaining environment we could tolerate for extended periods.

While the Moon might be closer, it has no atmosphere, now or at any time in its past. This has obvious problems for our putative Selenians, but worse it means there is been no erosion of the lunar dust, it's basically an ocean of razor sharp "asbestos bits" looking for something to clog or grate. Also, there's no atmospheric protection from radiation and a cycle of two-week days / two-week nights with extreme temperature fluctuations, nasty psychological and physiological effects, and equal measures of tedium and terror as you wait to see if the next micro-meteorite or moon-quake is the one that'll crack the little aluminium eggshell that stands between you and death by decompression.

Then again, if the choice was between that and going to Mars in the company of Elon Musk, I'd probably go with the Moon; Just prop my body up in the centre of Tycho crater giving a perpetual middle finger to the whole planet. Hey, if Elon can do the same metaphorically..?

Is that what you meant?

Re: How Did I Ever Believe Christianity Was True?

Katrina — Tue, 05 May 2026 16:07:43 -0000

It is very interesting to hear about your experience with Christianity. We all have such unique experiences, which is why I do not believe in judging people for their past or present opinions on Christianity. Even though I can hear your story and sympathize with how you feel, I did not have the same experience as you, so I cannot ever fully understand your experience. I liked how you broke up your post into sections, so I thought I would share my thoughts on each section in the same format.

Growing up in the church.

I also grew up in a Christian home. My mom and dad (honestly, my whole family who lived nearby) were Christians and did a great job of sharing with me what it meant to be a Christian. I have gone to Christian schools from kindergarten through college and have also attended events such as Christian camps and conferences.

It has not only met my emotional needs.

In my life, Christianity has not just been something that made me feel good or gave me a feeling of belonging, but it has been a source of hope for the future. My family has gone through some very scary things concerning mental health, and even though it has been very difficult, I have always been able to turn to the scripture and prayer as a source of strength when I was very weak.

I am not a trusting person.

In the last few years, I have realized that I am definitely more of a cynic or pessimist than a naturally trusting person. When it comes to listening to a teacher or pastor, I do not immediately agree with them, but I like to hear their reasons and evidence for what they have to say. Now, this has landed me in many heated conversations, but having some hard conversations has really deepened my faith because I know for certain that the Bible is true and reliable.

The Bible is definitely powerful

I do not disagree with you. The Bible is very moving, but it is not mythic. There are many different examples of proof we have today that show the Bible’s truth. From archeological finds to manuscripts such as the Dead Sea Scrolls being found, we have lots of evidence that shows the Bible is a reliable source.

Our feelings are not a source of truth

We are not perfect. None of us is, and I think from reading your post that you would agree with this. Because we are not perfect, our feelings are not perfect either. They can sometimes be on the right track, but they should not be a source of truth because they are so unreliable. For example, many different times I have struggled with mental health and have felt as though I am ugly, unlovable, and worthless. This was not true just because I felt it. It is a symptom of our sinful nature and shows that our minds and feelings will not be perfect on this earth.

Fear is not always a part of the package

I know that many different people call themselves Christians and use fear as a way to motivate people to salvation. Well, this is not what God intended and is not true in all churches/ Christian communities. While hell, judgment, and eternal punishment are all real, so are heaven, grace, mercy, and eternal life with Christ.

Community is beautiful

Many see Christianity as some sort of cult, and they have a right to believe that. The truth is that Christians believe in community because it is so good for us. We can lean on one another in hard times, rejoice together in the good, and create bonds that will last a lifetime. People do this outside of the church, but I wonder why, when Christians talk about community, it is all of a sudden a bad thing?

My questions for you are, what do you believe in now? How did we get here? Why are we here? And where will we go when we leave this earth?

Re: Religious Trauma is Trauma | ExChristian.Net

Katrina — Tue, 05 May 2026 15:31:03 -0000

Hi Andrew! I am so sorry to hear that your experience with Christianity was so negative and harsh. I have heard other stories such as yours that are so sad, but remind us that we as humans are so flawed and cannot be good on our own. This goes for all people, including Christians. You have probably heard the verse “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” Romans 3:23. This is the beginning of understanding Christianity and God because we all need to realize that we will mess up in life. I have done and said things before that I am not proud of, and I am sure you have as well.

The church and your family should not have treated you the way they did, and there is no excuse. The thing I think many people miss is that God is not ok with the behavior of many Christians. He does not instruct parents and those in other positions of authority to use abusive actions to help children learn and grow. Most people, even those who do not hold to Christian beliefs, know the “golden rule.” Both Matthew 7:12 and Luke 6:31 share the same instructions. That we should treat others the way we would want them to treat us. This teaching and many other verses in the Bible show us that God does not desire for us to harm one another or use hurtful actions to radically change ourselves.

The question is, should we be judging a faith/ religion based on those who hold that belief? I do not think that this would be a fair way to judge a whole religion, because it is subjective to certain people/ situations. For example, I grew up in a loving Christian home, have attended Christian schools from kindergarten through college, have always gone to church, and I have attended many other Christian events such as camps and conferences. In my life, there have been times when I did not agree with what some Christians said or did, but I have not experienced what you have with the church, so I will not pretend to understand church hurt the way you do. All I can say is that I am so sorry for the way you were treated and that not all Christians act the way those in your life did.

I could get into the biblical view on sexuality and other subjects you brought up, but I think that right now, it is more important that you hear from a Christian that you are loved. It truly saddens me to hear your story, because I know that those people in your life were not acting in a way that showed you the love of Jesus.

When I was seventeen years old, I was working at a summer Bible camp and got a call from my mom that my cousin, who was going to come work at this camp with me the next week, had come out as bisexual and therefore was not interested in/ allowed to work as a boys counselor. This news rocked me and my faith. I was so scared because I thought this meant that my cousin would choose to abandon me and our friendship, his faith, and ultimately, I thought he was not going to be in Heaven with me one day. These worries weighed on me for quite some time until I shared them with a mentor, who recommended we look in the Bible for answers. A verse that stood out to me in this search was Romans 10:13, which says, “Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” It does not instruct us to “reach perfection” or to “never sin again.” Instead, the Bible tells us that even though we will mess up and sin, even once we are saved, “God loved us enough to send His only begotten son, so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” John 3:16.

Re: “They Were Never True Believers” — The Convenient Dismissal Clause

webmdave — Sat, 02 May 2026 21:50:09 -0000

Amen!

Re: “They Were Never True Believers” — The Convenient Dismissal Clause

David B. — Sat, 02 May 2026 21:46:16 -0000

Hebrews 6:4, "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance."

So even the most saved, most blessed, most beatified and sanctified can fall, and once fallen never be forgiven! Sorry, my ex-christian friends of this site, but you're are truly God damned. Still, as an irredeemable soul at least you won't have to deal with an endless parade of witless proselytizers trying to reconvert you, right? Their own bibles tell them there's no point to it!

Wait maybe that's it! If you were a true Christian who'd lost their faith they'd be wasting their time preaching to the deconverted, they don't think they're wasting their time, ergo you can't have been a true Christian!?

Re: “They Were Never True Believers” — The Convenient Dismissal Clause

Glenn — Thu, 23 Apr 2026 14:06:18 -0000

In Baptist circles this goes back to the whole "once saved, always saved" - notions of eternal security. Mainly this was just something to say to members whose loved ones had stopped attending church, usually either a husband or a child. In that world, you can't actually leave the faith, so the 'no true Scotsman' logical fallacy shouldn't apply.

And yet, I heard it all the time! Mostly it comes from people who never knew you when you were a believer. But it pisses me off because it presumes they know you. They picture someone who begrudgingly went to church but never really practiced the faith. They have a hard time when they find out that you were in church since you were six weeks old, studied apologetics, were enthusiastically christian and a preacher's kid to boot.

I've always said that you'd be hard pressed to find a more devoted, sincere christian than the old me. And I think there's an interesting correlation here.

Picture a scale, left to right. On the far left, hardcore atheist. On the far right, crazy sold-out believer. But nearer the middle of the scale you have two other positions: to the left of center, a person who never attended church or studied theology, and to the right of center a church-going person who enjoys it but also never studies theology much.

Those two center-most positions can swap back and forth a lot without too much effort. This is where the vast majority of change occurs, and people don't generally get too worked up about it. "Oh, did you hear so-and-so is attending church now?" "Oh good, how nice!" -- or vice versa.

But hearing about someone who is ultra-sold-out-for-Jesus becoming a solid hard-core atheist really rattles the faith! An explanation must be given, even if it is as lame as 'no-true-christian.' I guess the presumption is that the seeming faith was just a sham, a false facade, putting on an act. Because anything less would be to acknowledge that atheism is a valid alternative viewpoint.

And we can't have that, now, can we?

Apologies for the length of this, geeze!

Re: Faith, Fear, and Mental Health: Navigating Religious Psychosis in Charismatic Churches

Jenny — Sun, 05 Apr 2026 12:01:03 -0000

I've dealt with this situation with a family member. This person believed that god had inserted an extra body organ. No amount of arguing worked.

I told him that anything was possible, but in this situation it was improbable. At lesast from my perspective.

Re: The 33-Year-Old Virgin: The Most Unbelievable Part of the Jesus Story

David B. — Thu, 12 Mar 2026 18:06:54 -0000

While there is evidence that sex with someone else can have benefits related to relationships and stress reduction it does seem to be the case that it needs to be a shared experience. Solo relief seems to be much less beneficial or even deleterious to mental health, principally because its introspective nature creates cycles of self-reinforcement, a single-handed echo chamber, if you will.

It'd be tempting to blame celibacy (involuntary or otherwise) for all the crazy notions espoused by its practitioners, but let's not forget there's usually a pretty efficient external echo chamber involved.

What any kind of release does appear to be good for (in men) is prostrate health, having a regular flush out seems to reduce the risk of prostate cancer by as much as 20% (from 1-in-8 to 1-in-10) according to a study of 30,000 men carried out by Boston University.

Re: The 33-Year-Old Virgin: The Most Unbelievable Part of the Jesus Story

jim — Mon, 09 Mar 2026 16:04:05 -0000

A man has a drain valve that has to be used periodically. Every man knows this. What you think of while servicing it is up to you but it has to be done. God made man a sexual creature and the desire is inherent and religion cannot abate it

Re: Why I left the Canadian Reformed Church

David B. — Sun, 01 Mar 2026 08:49:59 -0000

I was caught up in Charismatic teachings also were sensational instead of sensible.

Well I hope you get out soon. You see people caught in cycles of delusion and deception and it can be very hard to watch, it may be some bloviating politician, a conspiracy theory, a popular movement that prioritises feelings over facts, in the end it boils down to the same thing, an obsession with projecting their internal world view as if the external world has some obligation to accommodate it.

Honestly, you sometimes want to shake these people and shout "Wake up and take a look around! The world is not the same as you imagine!" But many are so deeply wrapped in layers of self-affirming conceit you may as well be screaming into the void.

Worse, no-one is immune to this, not you, not me, the only way to avoid the rabbit holes is to watch where you tread, and never assume the ground beneath you is solid just because you want it to be. Paul said it nearly 2000 years ago "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1Thes5:25). Don't just accept what you've heard, test it, ask questions, compare promises to deliveries, predictions to results.

People will say that world around them, the universe above and below, is the primary creation of their god, then turn their back on it to follow the words of men, even when those words are at odds with that creation. They are told to not put their trust in princes, then they place a crown on the next head that tells them what the want to hear, that they will be rich, or safe, or loved, that the people they despise are genuinely despicable, less than them, less than human.

All it takes to walk into a cult is to follow blindly, but for some the blinkers are too comforting to lose. I'd be tempted to say, their loss, but in the end everybody loses but the exploiters and abusers who sell the blinkers in the first place.

It's fine to wish people be happy, be safe, be blessed, but in the end perhaps the best benediction you can pass on is to...

Keep it real!

Re: Why I left the Canadian Reformed Church

Janet — Wed, 25 Feb 2026 08:31:08 -0000

I share your pain of leaving a church group that exerted too much power. I was caught up in Charismatic teachings that also were sensational instead of sensible.

That being said, Jesus really is God. We didn't make ourselves and there can only be one objective truth, which can be skewed by subjective experiences.There is good, there is bad, there is a Saviour who carries us home. Jesus actually does make perfect sense.

The greatest and most fulfilling love in this world is to know despite all the wrong we do, God loves us so much that He gave His only Son to rescue us. You are wanted and never alone.

Re: Turn off the Light

David B. — Sun, 25 Jan 2026 18:02:28 -0000

Precious does not mean wonderful it means rare and important. Food and water would be a precious commodity in the places you mention not because it is by Michelin starred chefs or sourced from the purest springs but because it would preserve the lives of these people, lives you just denigrated as worthless and valueless. Surely that is the view of those who persecute these people and perpetuate their torment?

To use the very real and often overwhelming struggles to survival some people face to dismiss the value of their lives is non-sensical, if their lives were so unendurable, why would they then struggle so hard to endure?

We say people who voluntarily give up their lives for others made "the ultimate sacrifice", how much cheaper is that sacrifice if they give it up for a perceived reward of unimaginable luxury and pleasure. That's what empty promises of an afterlife do, they cheapen the actions of those who would risk their one life by promising a better one in return. And there's the rub, what else is an afterlife for but to encourage others to give up their lives for nothing more than empty words?

From Aristotle to Kierkegaard, the humanist view that human life is intrinsically valuable has been raised in the face of religious objections that human worth is properly measured in what you can do for the gods, or rather their Earthly representatives.

Re: Turn off the Light

glebealyth — Thu, 22 Jan 2026 07:21:33 -0000

It really is such a shame that you know so little about me, yet you prsume to judge.
When you only have one life, it is likely precious.
When you attempt to convert people who are suffering, with the promise of an afterlife with eternal rewards for temporal suffering, you are immoral little shit who deserves to be trampled by a Hamas leadser who has embezzled the aid that should have made the lives of the residents of Gaza better.

Re: Turn off the Light

Mandy A. — Thu, 22 Jan 2026 01:22:21 -0000

"The only life you have is exceedingly precious"

Tell me that after you have lost everything and everyone that ever meant anything to you. Tell that to these refugees who live in these 3rd world countries who are starving to death. Tell the people of Gaza how wonderful this life is and how they should embrace their precious life

Spoken like a typical self-centered Westerner who has never had to face any real suffering. As someone who is Agnostic I personally do not like most of you atheists. Most of you are just as arrogant and self-absorbed as most Christians are. I am reminded why I hardly ever come to this site anymore. People like you live in a Western Bubble that needs to be popped.

Re: Turn off the Light

glebealyth — Fri, 16 Jan 2026 15:23:52 -0000

It is precious simply because it is the only one you know for certain that you have; that it WILLend AND that it will end, most likely, before you want it to.

Value your own life. Hopefully others will join you in valuing it.

God is not necessary, never having been demonstrated to exist.

Unlike TV, your life is real.

Re: Turn off the Light

Todd James — Fri, 16 Jan 2026 13:17:22 -0000

Why is it so precious? I don't see any god that values it neither does anyone else. Do you still think mine is like TV

Re: “They Were Never True Believers” — The Convenient Dismissal Clause

Ficino — Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:28:05 -0000

The attitude you describe is a good example of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Re: God, The Ultimate Abusive Spouse

Mandy A. — Mon, 15 Dec 2025 10:54:00 -0000

Besides. How many more relationships does Jesus need? He already had 12 boyfriends. Of course Judas did end up breaking up with him.

Re: God, The Ultimate Abusive Spouse

Mandy A. — Mon, 15 Dec 2025 10:42:43 -0000

Jesus was also a home wrecker and an attention starved little toddler. (Luke 14:25-27) & (Matthew 10:34-36)

Once again your god/Jesus needs a weak and pathetic human to speak on its behalf. What a pathetic god you serve. We've heard this kind of crap before. Not interested or impressed with your christian propaganda. Talk is cheap and that is all you Christians have to offer regarding your "NO ACTION GOD". Cheap Talk, Excuses, and Lies is all you Christians have to offer.

Going to church along with reading the Bible and listening to you Christians and your worn out drivel (propaganda) is like watching reruns over and over again of a really bad television show that got cancelled a very long time ago with no new episodes being produced. .

Besides. Jesus only had a bad weekend. He came back to life from his so-called (fake) death so therefore there was NO sacrifice. Jesus was also a rape baby which makes god the father a pedophile since he got a teenager named Mary pregnant via divine conception (glorified rape). .

Re: God paid for, and cooked my Thanksgiving Dinner !

webmdave — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 18:04:15 -0000

And for his pleasure, you were created! Yes, by all means give him ALL the glory.

Please note the highly sarcastic tone...

Re: God paid for, and cooked my Thanksgiving Dinner !

Neal Allen Stone — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 17:02:15 -0000

Yep, when I had my heart surgery it was everyone praising God while I praised the skilled surgeon. People still act like God had something to do with my recovery when I am the one who fought to get better and live a normal life. Should we give him the credit for when I was abused as a child too?

Re: God, The Ultimate Abusive Spouse

David B. — Tue, 25 Nov 2025 19:53:25 -0000

They tell you Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship; but relationships don't get tax breaks, religions do. No prizes guessing which side they come down on to the IRS.

Re: God paid for, and cooked my Thanksgiving Dinner !

glebealyth — Tue, 25 Nov 2025 07:46:33 -0000

BTW

The offer is still open.

;o)))

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