Comments for Cruel Angel Theses http://omaemo.dasaku.net Over ⑨000 levels of heartbreak. Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:03:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 Comment on Code Geass R2 25 For Dummies, or It’s not the horse cart, stupid: The ending explained by Migz http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/ql6_nDAJ-os/ Migz Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:03:04 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=700#comment-3195 nice insight on the series. after reading it, it actually made sense. gonna watch this again. kinda wanted to see it for myself this time. thanks dude! nice insight on the series. after reading it, it actually made sense. gonna watch this again. kinda wanted to see it for myself this time. thanks dude!

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2008/09/30/code-geass-r2-25-for-dummies-or-its-not-the-horse-cart-stupid-the-ending-explained/#comment-3195 Comment on Code Geass R2 25 For Dummies, or It’s not the horse cart, stupid: The ending explained by Code Geass R2 final…”Él tenía el poder de los reyes y no estaba solo” http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/s_9W-onhWlQ/ Code Geass R2 final…”Él tenía el poder de los reyes y no estaba solo” Sun, 31 Jan 2010 07:37:39 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=700#comment-3194 [...] por qué? , pues acá hay un par de post en donde lo explican (lástima que estén en inglés) 1 2 , en resumen dicen [...] [...] por qué? , pues acá hay un par de post en donde lo explican (lástima que estén en inglés) 1 2 , en resumen dicen [...]

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2008/09/30/code-geass-r2-25-for-dummies-or-its-not-the-horse-cart-stupid-the-ending-explained/#comment-3194 Comment on Darker than Black 01-02: “Still Alive” by Missing Link » Arkisto » Episodipostaukset http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/wrfL7XLQz8E/ Missing Link » Arkisto » Episodipostaukset Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:20:52 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=986#comment-3193 [...] hyviä esimerkkejä ovat esimerkiksi Fuzakennan Utena-postaukset ja Cruel Angel’s Thesesin Darker than Black [...] [...] hyviä esimerkkejä ovat esimerkiksi Fuzakennan Utena-postaukset ja Cruel Angel’s Thesesin Darker than Black [...]

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2009/04/06/darker-than-black-01-02-still-alive/#comment-3193 Comment on Darker than Black 05-06: “Redrum” by hondado123 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/9lEgICHa1hk/ hondado123 Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:54:15 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=1033#comment-3192 it is fun it is fun

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2009/04/08/darker-than-black-05-06-redrum/#comment-3192 Comment on Developer’s Diaries: Fate/Meta Narrative by OpMegs http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/VIEMRxwawMs/ OpMegs Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:53:32 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=933#comment-3190 It’s interesting that I find these analyses of FSN so intriguing as I slowly chip away at the massive monolith that is the text amount of the VN. By virtue of having seen the anime first, I found myself nonetheless drawn to the full novel for those little hints that were dropped that “this isn’t all there is".But the principle bits of how <em>meta</em> the whole thing is are what this post is about, and thus I restrain my urge to go off on a tangent and come to the point.Specifically, I believe you mentioned that it’s very obviously intended that one read Fate->UBW->HF for virtue of avoiding spoiling certain twists(Gilgamesh seems to be the main one, as almost all the other routes basically expect you to realize who he is and his role as connected to Kotomine from the start). However, as I’ve read this, I find myself finding other reasons to read it in that order, which have nothing to do with spoilers and everything to do with the brutal, heart wrenching twists that Heaven’s Feel takes near the end.As the route structure allows, Nasu tends to focus on specific parts of the cast in different routes. Whereas Fate is mostly about Saber and a side of Gilgamesh, UBW pulls Rin, Archer, Caster, and Lancer to the fore, before Heaven’s Feel rounds this out with the Matou family, their servants, and Ilya. Aside from the amusing fun of seeing all the foreshadowing(across entire routes) to events that happen in others, Nasu seems to have achieved in FSN a unique point that tends to only come up in fanfiction or “What If?” stories. And the order has something to do with it. Fate has little room for this, aside from a handful of references to future events, by virtue of being the first path. However, it is the foundation(as demonstrated that the start has you in Fate Route until you hit the branch off points for UBW and HF respectively) of both, and Saber, despite some calling her the most “boring” heroine, is a fundamental part of the later routes as well.UBW, in turn, has its own cases, most typified by Archer. Perhaps one of the most compelling scenes is his loathing-filled, venomous recitation of his past and what brought him to be. By the nature of his existence, we don’t know how long he’s had that on his back, and his anger and desperation are entirely normal. Yet, at the same time, the sequence and the battle after it demonstrate that no matter how much he has changed, Archer still fundamentally is the same person he once was at the core. Beneath the self-loathing and rage, he is still attempting to save people at the expense of his own well-being. Whereas Shirou would throw his life on the line, Archer throws everything else. His line to Lancer in front of the church “honor can be thrown to the dogs” is both an intentional provocation of the other Heroic Spirit and an interesting comment on Archer himself. As a Heroic Spirit, he is already dead. He cannot lose that anymore. So what can he sacrifice of himself to achieve the ends he looks for? His honor. The respect of those he is trying to save. As selfish as his motive to escape his fate seems to be, one must realize that the mirror reflects both ways. Even as he tries to save himself from his present, he is attempting to save Shirou from his future. In a way, Archer is looking at things from the perspective of one who believes that the person in front of him is terminally ill, and will not recover. Euthanizing them to put them out of their continued misery would be a mercy to one with as cynical an outlook as Archer, and to a degree, this is what he is attempting to do to himself and Shirou in the same blow. Yet at the same time, he’s desperately trying to save everyone else, be it Saber from her own self-destructive path that he still feels can be averted(and her reaction both to his history and after the destruction of the Grail in the True End suggests that he succeeded in unburdening her moreso even than Shirou did in Fate), Rin who he feels he can help achieve her goals(both by giving her Saber, the goal she wanted at the beginning of the war anyway, and allowing them to protect each other), and finally, even Shinji. UBW is the only route that is remotely kind to Shinji in the end, and one has to wonder how much of that is because of Archer’s knowledge of how Shinji’s mind works. The crucible of his torture at the end of the route seems to have burned his worse urges out of him, and it even notes that by extension, his relationship with Sakura is improving. Archer follows his Plan regarding Shirou, but as amoral and cold as he seems, he still attempts to save everyone where he can, and it is this inviolable core that allows Shirou to persuade him in their duel. Yet at the same time, it is the knowledge that Archer has lived these events(or something close to them) that allows one to see what he is trying to save. What Shirou cannot prevent in Fate, Archer does in UBW, leading to possibly the most optimistic of endings in the entire series. And he does so at the cost of himself, the very thing he loathes most about his past self’s actions, yet comes to reconcile with.Finally, Heaven’s Feel reaches out past even the meta level by realizing that the reader has by now inserted a significant amount of time into this story. And three female cast members exemplify it best.Saber is notably a lesser character in this route, being eliminated from the plot fairly early. However, her loss is not a hollow one. Shirou feels grief over her death, and by virtue of the fact that in the last two routes, she has been by our side, working with us, and (if one considers UBW’s Good End to be a harem end of sorts)a romantic interest throughout both. Read on its own, Saber’s early death in HF has no impact. We have no reason to care. But the weight of experience from the previous two routes that one must complete to enter HF forces the issue into greater poignancy. The same goes for the inevitable confrontation with Dark Saber, where “Bring the knife down” has all the emotional torque of a tornado when viewed through the lense of what Saber was in previous routes vs. what she has had time to be in HF alone. Without those routes, Saber’s death would be tragic. With them, it hurts so bad. And even the alternative choice leads to a pathway that is one of the darkest in the game, as if knowing that some would see it by virtue of being unable to let her go.Ilya is the second, and HF showcases her much more in depth than the previous routes. In Fate, she was a powerful antagonist turned comedic foil, with little reason given to being sympathetic to her beyond a talk in the park with her and her offhand comment about Berserker after his death. In UBW, their united deaths give way to an interlude that completely reverses the image of Berserker as a rabid dog on Ilya’s leash and reveals that her past is as detrimental to her present as any of the cast’s. But in HF, standing on the shoulders of those two revelations, the reasons why *Shirou* cares about her are brought into relief, and her loss to preserve what he wanted to save at the end is poignant in a way that allows us to feel Shirou’s reluctance and pain. We finally know Ilya as she really is: a wounded, young, abandoned girl who has two desperately conflicting paths of thought warring inside of her, yet the only way to (potentially) save her requires that we be willing to go to HF’s normal end, which is even worse than accepting her sacrifice.And finally, Sakura herself. I’ve seen a few comments where people see Sakura as “shallow” or “undeserving” of what Shirou suffers, both physically and psychologically, in HF for her sake. And one could almost see that….except by reading the previous routes, one wants to see her succeed. The other Routes belong to Saber and Rin. When Sakura has a chance to demonstrate her feelings, it is often roughly brushed aside, leaving her locked out of events. Yet in HF, her route, this culminates in finally being able to make her happy, and I certainly took great pleasure in the various options they gave to cater to her after two routes of kicking her to the side. HF is one of the most demanding of routes in terms of point checks, yet doing things that you WANT to do almost assures you of passing them without trouble, because you want to make Sakura happy. You want to see her smile as much as Shirou does. Whereas before she was the background scenery, the unsuccesful childhood friend, HF allows you to ignore that bias and allow her to get what she wants. As much as Shirou gets the girl, HF is about Sakura getting the guy, which is all the more triumphant for seeing her not get him in the other routes. Shirou has known her for years, and by two routes of about 40 hours worth of reading, we feel like we have too, so the fact that she is who his attentions fall on seems logical and *right*, which would be impossible without that momentum as described above with Saber.All in all, the story within stories that uses the reader’s experiences to evoke feelings that the cast has is such a meta-textual artwork that I find myself willing to overlook Nasu’s faults as a writer if only because FSN demonstrates his success as a storyteller.Though out of curiousity, you’ve mentioned offhand that you read Tsukihime, so I have to wonder if FSN is at all indicative of how the deep the water gets in a game which acknowledgeably has *five* routes.(*realises he pretty much just blogged in the comments section and damn, didn’t he start typing this an hour ago as a -short- reply?*) It’s interesting that I find these analyses of FSN so intriguing as I slowly chip away at the massive monolith that is the text amount of the VN. By virtue of having seen the anime first, I found myself nonetheless drawn to the full novel for those little hints that were dropped that “this isn’t all there is”.But the principle bits of how meta the whole thing is are what this post is about, and thus I restrain my urge to go off on a tangent and come to the point.Specifically, I believe you mentioned that it’s very obviously intended that one read Fate->UBW->HF for virtue of avoiding spoiling certain twists(Gilgamesh seems to be the main one, as almost all the other routes basically expect you to realize who he is and his role as connected to Kotomine from the start). However, as I’ve read this, I find myself finding other reasons to read it in that order, which have nothing to do with spoilers and everything to do with the brutal, heart wrenching twists that Heaven’s Feel takes near the end.As the route structure allows, Nasu tends to focus on specific parts of the cast in different routes. Whereas Fate is mostly about Saber and a side of Gilgamesh, UBW pulls Rin, Archer, Caster, and Lancer to the fore, before Heaven’s Feel rounds this out with the Matou family, their servants, and Ilya. Aside from the amusing fun of seeing all the foreshadowing(across entire routes) to events that happen in others, Nasu seems to have achieved in FSN a unique point that tends to only come up in fanfiction or “What If?” stories. And the order has something to do with it. Fate has little room for this, aside from a handful of references to future events, by virtue of being the first path. However, it is the foundation(as demonstrated that the start has you in Fate Route until you hit the branch off points for UBW and HF respectively) of both, and Saber, despite some calling her the most “boring” heroine, is a fundamental part of the later routes as well.UBW, in turn, has its own cases, most typified by Archer. Perhaps one of the most compelling scenes is his loathing-filled, venomous recitation of his past and what brought him to be. By the nature of his existence, we don’t know how long he’s had that on his back, and his anger and desperation are entirely normal. Yet, at the same time, the sequence and the battle after it demonstrate that no matter how much he has changed, Archer still fundamentally is the same person he once was at the core. Beneath the self-loathing and rage, he is still attempting to save people at the expense of his own well-being. Whereas Shirou would throw his life on the line, Archer throws everything else. His line to Lancer in front of the church “honor can be thrown to the dogs” is both an intentional provocation of the other Heroic Spirit and an interesting comment on Archer himself. As a Heroic Spirit, he is already dead. He cannot lose that anymore. So what can he sacrifice of himself to achieve the ends he looks for? His honor. The respect of those he is trying to save. As selfish as his motive to escape his fate seems to be, one must realize that the mirror reflects both ways. Even as he tries to save himself from his present, he is attempting to save Shirou from his future. In a way, Archer is looking at things from the perspective of one who believes that the person in front of him is terminally ill, and will not recover. Euthanizing them to put them out of their continued misery would be a mercy to one with as cynical an outlook as Archer, and to a degree, this is what he is attempting to do to himself and Shirou in the same blow. Yet at the same time, he’s desperately trying to save everyone else, be it Saber from her own self-destructive path that he still feels can be averted(and her reaction both to his history and after the destruction of the Grail in the True End suggests that he succeeded in unburdening her moreso even than Shirou did in Fate), Rin who he feels he can help achieve her goals(both by giving her Saber, the goal she wanted at the beginning of the war anyway, and allowing them to protect each other), and finally, even Shinji. UBW is the only route that is remotely kind to Shinji in the end, and one has to wonder how much of that is because of Archer’s knowledge of how Shinji’s mind works. The crucible of his torture at the end of the route seems to have burned his worse urges out of him, and it even notes that by extension, his relationship with Sakura is improving. Archer follows his Plan regarding Shirou, but as amoral and cold as he seems, he still attempts to save everyone where he can, and it is this inviolable core that allows Shirou to persuade him in their duel. Yet at the same time, it is the knowledge that Archer has lived these events(or something close to them) that allows one to see what he is trying to save. What Shirou cannot prevent in Fate, Archer does in UBW, leading to possibly the most optimistic of endings in the entire series. And he does so at the cost of himself, the very thing he loathes most about his past self’s actions, yet comes to reconcile with.Finally, Heaven’s Feel reaches out past even the meta level by realizing that the reader has by now inserted a significant amount of time into this story. And three female cast members exemplify it best.Saber is notably a lesser character in this route, being eliminated from the plot fairly early. However, her loss is not a hollow one. Shirou feels grief over her death, and by virtue of the fact that in the last two routes, she has been by our side, working with us, and (if one considers UBW’s Good End to be a harem end of sorts)a romantic interest throughout both. Read on its own, Saber’s early death in HF has no impact. We have no reason to care. But the weight of experience from the previous two routes that one must complete to enter HF forces the issue into greater poignancy. The same goes for the inevitable confrontation with Dark Saber, where “Bring the knife down” has all the emotional torque of a tornado when viewed through the lense of what Saber was in previous routes vs. what she has had time to be in HF alone. Without those routes, Saber’s death would be tragic. With them, it hurts so bad. And even the alternative choice leads to a pathway that is one of the darkest in the game, as if knowing that some would see it by virtue of being unable to let her go.Ilya is the second, and HF showcases her much more in depth than the previous routes. In Fate, she was a powerful antagonist turned comedic foil, with little reason given to being sympathetic to her beyond a talk in the park with her and her offhand comment about Berserker after his death. In UBW, their united deaths give way to an interlude that completely reverses the image of Berserker as a rabid dog on Ilya’s leash and reveals that her past is as detrimental to her present as any of the cast’s. But in HF, standing on the shoulders of those two revelations, the reasons why *Shirou* cares about her are brought into relief, and her loss to preserve what he wanted to save at the end is poignant in a way that allows us to feel Shirou’s reluctance and pain. We finally know Ilya as she really is: a wounded, young, abandoned girl who has two desperately conflicting paths of thought warring inside of her, yet the only way to (potentially) save her requires that we be willing to go to HF’s normal end, which is even worse than accepting her sacrifice.And finally, Sakura herself. I’ve seen a few comments where people see Sakura as “shallow” or “undeserving” of what Shirou suffers, both physically and psychologically, in HF for her sake. And one could almost see that….except by reading the previous routes, one wants to see her succeed. The other Routes belong to Saber and Rin. When Sakura has a chance to demonstrate her feelings, it is often roughly brushed aside, leaving her locked out of events. Yet in HF, her route, this culminates in finally being able to make her happy, and I certainly took great pleasure in the various options they gave to cater to her after two routes of kicking her to the side. HF is one of the most demanding of routes in terms of point checks, yet doing things that you WANT to do almost assures you of passing them without trouble, because you want to make Sakura happy. You want to see her smile as much as Shirou does. Whereas before she was the background scenery, the unsuccesful childhood friend, HF allows you to ignore that bias and allow her to get what she wants. As much as Shirou gets the girl, HF is about Sakura getting the guy, which is all the more triumphant for seeing her not get him in the other routes. Shirou has known her for years, and by two routes of about 40 hours worth of reading, we feel like we have too, so the fact that she is who his attentions fall on seems logical and *right*, which would be impossible without that momentum as described above with Saber.All in all, the story within stories that uses the reader’s experiences to evoke feelings that the cast has is such a meta-textual artwork that I find myself willing to overlook Nasu’s faults as a writer if only because FSN demonstrates his success as a storyteller.Though out of curiousity, you’ve mentioned offhand that you read Tsukihime, so I have to wonder if FSN is at all indicative of how the deep the water gets in a game which acknowledgeably has *five* routes.(*realises he pretty much just blogged in the comments section and damn, didn’t he start typing this an hour ago as a -short- reply?*)

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2009/01/06/developer%e2%80%99s-diaries-fatemeta-narrative/#comment-3190 Comment on Darker than Black 13-14: “Atonement” by Dustin http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/yJZXw5gP4T8/ Dustin Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:11:47 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=1221#comment-3189 I think you'll be surprised Topspin. You haven't even reached Huang's arc yet :). I think you’ll be surprised Topspin. You haven’t even reached Huang’s arc yet :).

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2009/04/12/darker-than-black-13-14-atonement/#comment-3189 Comment on Darker than Black 13-14: “Atonement” by Topspin http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/lwCJFnu3Jjk/ Topspin Sun, 13 Dec 2009 05:03:53 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=1221#comment-3188 You are quite correct, this was subtle (yet skillful) storytelling. I'm fortunate because I can follow the allegory better than most, despite having relatively flat fansubs that lose some of the meaning (as per your screencaps above). So far so good, the past four episodes are quite excellent. If this sort of storytelling continues, I can forgive DtB it's faults, but to be honest I'm not holding my breath - this sort of allegory and intrigue is difficult to keep up when you are halfway through a series already. You are quite correct, this was subtle (yet skillful) storytelling. I’m fortunate because I can follow the allegory better than most, despite having relatively flat fansubs that lose some of the meaning (as per your screencaps above).

So far so good, the past four episodes are quite excellent. If this sort of storytelling continues, I can forgive DtB it’s faults, but to be honest I’m not holding my breath – this sort of allegory and intrigue is difficult to keep up when you are halfway through a series already.

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2009/04/12/darker-than-black-13-14-atonement/#comment-3188 Comment on Darker than Black 13-14: “Atonement” by Dustin http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/co6j-CFaNGY/ Dustin Sun, 13 Dec 2009 04:04:48 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=1221#comment-3187 Ahh no problem Kenji. I think what this line highlights is Yin's first decision after becoming a Doll. Although she ran away by herself Hei actually giving her a chance to choose between being Yin and returning to being Kirsi is a huge part of who she is. In the end she chooses to stay with Hei, her Nakama, her partner. Thus her final spoken lines "Don't leave me here alone" signify that she chose to stay with Hei and she can't bear the thought of being left alone. Hei pulls her back with him, they both choose to be with each other. So "I can?" or "I can decide?" is her choice to stay with Hei. I hope that clears it up a bit for you. If she hadn't chosen Hei her loneliness without him might not make sense in the final arc. Ahh no problem Kenji.

I think what this line highlights is Yin’s first decision after becoming a Doll. Although she ran away by herself Hei actually giving her a chance to choose between being Yin and returning to being Kirsi is a huge part of who she is. In the end she chooses to stay with Hei, her Nakama, her partner. Thus her final spoken lines “Don’t leave me here alone” signify that she chose to stay with Hei and she can’t bear the thought of being left alone. Hei pulls her back with him, they both choose to be with each other.

So “I can?” or “I can decide?” is her choice to stay with Hei. I hope that clears it up a bit for you. If she hadn’t chosen Hei her loneliness without him might not make sense in the final arc.

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2009/04/12/darker-than-black-13-14-atonement/#comment-3187 Comment on Darker than Black 11-12: “Equivalent Exchange” by Topspin http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/-eE80X6ZE1M/ Topspin Sun, 13 Dec 2009 03:50:17 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=1138#comment-3186 It's nice to see the spirit of analysis-for-fun lives on in humanity despite the topic.. glad I stumbled on this post. I felt more or less the same way as others; that this was an exploration of Hei's character more than anything else. The allegory that this was Hei's personal journey of discovery/enlightenment makes the fact that the other characters are "real" a bit irrelevant to the plot, and just raises my interest in an otherwise boring show (thus far). Essentially, we finally learn a bit about "Hei the person", the motivations of the more "human" contractors, and the happenings in this strange "zone" where such contractors dream of electric sheep (excuse the lame pun). Interesting stuff, and if this level of interest is maintained it could be a better show than I gave it credit for. Whether or not the female Indian scientist is "realistic" is besides the point, since I haven't seen any attempt at an Indian girl for a long time. It’s nice to see the spirit of analysis-for-fun lives on in humanity despite the topic.. glad I stumbled on this post. I felt more or less the same way as others; that this was an exploration of Hei’s character more than anything else. The allegory that this was Hei’s personal journey of discovery/enlightenment makes the fact that the other characters are “real” a bit irrelevant to the plot, and just raises my interest in an otherwise boring show (thus far).

Essentially, we finally learn a bit about “Hei the person”, the motivations of the more “human” contractors, and the happenings in this strange “zone” where such contractors dream of electric sheep (excuse the lame pun). Interesting stuff, and if this level of interest is maintained it could be a better show than I gave it credit for. Whether or not the female Indian scientist is “realistic” is besides the point, since I haven’t seen any attempt at an Indian girl for a long time.

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2009/04/11/darker-than-black-11-12-equivalent-exchange/#comment-3186 Comment on Nominations, Criticism, and The ABA: Thank You For Blogging! by axiolelew http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/cruelangelthesescomments/~3/u7V3Q9j7QVo/ axiolelew Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:23:43 +0000 http://omaemo.dasaku.net/?p=597#comment-3185 Unadulterated words, some truthful words man. Totally made my day. Unadulterated words, some truthful words man. Totally made my day.

]]> http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2008/04/08/nominations-criticism-and-the-aba-thank-you-for-blogging/#comment-3185