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		<title>Comment on Can Rich People Provide all the Necessary Demand? by Sunglasses Fashion Trend Of The Season – 2010 Fashion Weapon … | Accessories Beauty Wisdom</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/wNZOsaVd1CM/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunglasses Fashion Trend Of The Season – 2010 Fashion Weapon … | Accessories Beauty Wisdom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Asymptosis » Can Rich People Provide all the Necessary Demand? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Asymptosis » Can Rich People Provide all the Necessary Demand? [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Robin Hanson’s Reply to the Luddites by Asymptosis</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/kWo4MCBE27g/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Asymptosis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href="#comment-838" rel="nofollow"&gt;@Chris&lt;/a&gt; 

http://www.asymptosis.com/can-rich-people-provide-all-the-necessary-demand.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-838" rel="nofollow">@Chris</a> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.asymptosis.com/can-rich-people-provide-all-the-necessary-demand.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.asymptosis.com/can-rich-people-provide-all-the-necessary-demand.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Robin Hanson’s Reply to the Luddites by Chris</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/UBOGD_xX9xc/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Another way of saying this is that if labor is necessary to produce demand, you would expect growth to freeze at some point after growth in the labor market froze.  This may turn out to be correct; at this time evidence points in the other direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another way of saying this is that if labor is necessary to produce demand, you would expect growth to freeze at some point after growth in the labor market froze.  This may turn out to be correct; at this time evidence points in the other direction.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Robin Hanson’s Reply to the Luddites by Chris</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/WTlf3Ceecz4/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 22:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymptosis.com/?p=1160#comment-837</guid>
		<description>In standard economics demand is infinite (correct me if I'm wrong), therefore, even if a few entities owned all of the capital in the economy, it could still expand because the entities would always use their existing capital to create more capital.  So far this appears to be holding true, as real American GDP in 2000 was ~$10 billion and it is now ~13 billion (2000 constant dollars) despite the recession and even though wealth has become more concentrated and the number of jobs (as well as wages) have essentially been flat during the last decade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In standard economics demand is infinite (correct me if I&#8217;m wrong), therefore, even if a few entities owned all of the capital in the economy, it could still expand because the entities would always use their existing capital to create more capital.  So far this appears to be holding true, as real American GDP in 2000 was ~$10 billion and it is now ~13 billion (2000 constant dollars) despite the recession and even though wealth has become more concentrated and the number of jobs (as well as wages) have essentially been flat during the last decade.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Prosperity Requires a Welfare State by BigSis</title>
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		<dc:creator>BigSis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymptosis.com/?p=206#comment-836</guid>
		<description>Well I'll be darned.  Tells you never to assume anything.  It got me to look into the etymology.  It seems my mistake was not uncommon, and is probably due to the pronunciation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I&#8217;ll be darned.  Tells you never to assume anything.  It got me to look into the etymology.  It seems my mistake was not uncommon, and is probably due to the pronunciation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Robin Hanson’s Reply to the Luddites by Asymptosis</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/_IxEEHWobyI/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Asymptosis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymptosis.com/?p=1160#comment-835</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="#comment-833" rel="nofollow"&gt;@Chris&lt;/a&gt; 
Yeah. I would like to see some empirical demonstration of that. There is some quite decent evidence to the contrary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-833" rel="nofollow">@Chris</a><br />
Yeah. I would like to see some empirical demonstration of that. There is some quite decent evidence to the contrary.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Robin Hanson’s Reply to the Luddites by Asymptosis » Robin Hanson's Reply to the Luddites Help</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/kq2aAmKLpVw/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Asymptosis » Robin Hanson's Reply to the Luddites Help</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymptosis.com/?p=1160#comment-834</guid>
		<description>[...] original here:  Asymptosis » Robin Hanson's Reply to the Luddites       SuJu Baidu – Henry 1 Reply (8MAr) « CrazyOverWith-Republic of Angola (Xyami): Urgent Reply [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] original here:  Asymptosis » Robin Hanson&#39;s Reply to the Luddites       SuJu Baidu – Henry 1 Reply (8MAr) « CrazyOverWith-Republic of Angola (Xyami): Urgent Reply [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Robin Hanson’s Reply to the Luddites by Chris</title>
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		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think Hanson's point is that people aren't needed for demand (at least not a lot of people).  Capital can create its own demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Hanson&#8217;s point is that people aren&#8217;t needed for demand (at least not a lot of people).  Capital can create its own demand.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Robin Hanson’s Reply to the Luddites by Curt Gardner</title>
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		<dc:creator>Curt Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>One factual point - the book you link to is not Robin Hansen's, but that of his GMU colleague Tyler Cowen.

I feel many of your questions are indeed worth more serious consideration.  To me it appears that we've propped up effective demand (ability to pay) with a combination of redistribution and easy credit, and we're finding that the easy credit solution only goes so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One factual point &#8211; the book you link to is not Robin Hansen&#8217;s, but that of his GMU colleague Tyler Cowen.</p>
<p>I feel many of your questions are indeed worth more serious consideration.  To me it appears that we&#8217;ve propped up effective demand (ability to pay) with a combination of redistribution and easy credit, and we&#8217;re finding that the easy credit solution only goes so far.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Prosperity Requires a Welfare State by Asymptosis</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/oXiY3XEzpFA/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Asymptosis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 17:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymptosis.com/?p=206#comment-831</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="#comment-830" rel="nofollow"&gt;@BigSis&lt;/a&gt; 
No.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=define%3Adeserts&amp;sourceid=navclient-ff&amp;rlz=1B7GGLL_enUS365US365&amp;ie=UTF-8</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-830" rel="nofollow">@BigSis</a><br />
No.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&#038;q=define%3Adeserts&#038;sourceid=navclient-ff&#038;rlz=1B7GGLL_enUS365US365&#038;ie=UTF-8" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&#038;q=define%3Adeserts&#038;sourceid=navclient-ff&#038;rlz=1B7GGLL_enUS365US365&#038;ie=UTF-8</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Prosperity Requires a Welfare State by BigSis</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/1diCsXc4Ugc/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>BigSis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>By the way, that s/b "just desserts", not "deserts".  (albeit more amusing your way)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, that s/b &#8220;just desserts&#8221;, not &#8220;deserts&#8221;.  (albeit more amusing your way)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are Machines Replacing Humans? Or: Am I a Luddite? by Asymptosis</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/NR8MFiUzvH0/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Asymptosis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href="#comment-818" rel="nofollow"&gt;@Robin Hanson&lt;/a&gt; 
http://www.asymptosis.com/robin-hansons-reply-to-the-luddites.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-818" rel="nofollow">@Robin Hanson</a><br />
<a href="http://www.asymptosis.com/robin-hansons-reply-to-the-luddites.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.asymptosis.com/robin-hansons-reply-to-the-luddites.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Swiss Health Care a Good Model for Ours? by Oliver</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/6hXTL--v2SU/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymptosis.com/?p=1157#comment-828</guid>
		<description>The only reason Swiss health care hasn't gone the same way as in most other European countries, namely to a single payer system, is because a: politics is hijacked by special interests (especially pharmaceutical), b: the Swiss love their inefficient federalism and c: all political decisions have to pass through the excruciatingly slow and centring process of direct democracy. Health care here is of high quality but it is also the second most expensive in the world. I'd aim higher if I were the US...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only reason Swiss health care hasn&#8217;t gone the same way as in most other European countries, namely to a single payer system, is because a: politics is hijacked by special interests (especially pharmaceutical), b: the Swiss love their inefficient federalism and c: all political decisions have to pass through the excruciatingly slow and centring process of direct democracy. Health care here is of high quality but it is also the second most expensive in the world. I&#8217;d aim higher if I were the US&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are Machines Replacing Humans? Or: Am I a Luddite? by Chris</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/M1-lChozxWQ/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Apologies for virtually take over your comments section.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies for virtually take over your comments section.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are Machines Replacing Humans? Or: Am I a Luddite? by Chris</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/NUsAIJfG4P0/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href="#comment-825" rel="nofollow"&gt;@Chris&lt;/a&gt; 
Continued from above:

The lifting of the computational limit meant that humans were increasingly unnecessary in production ('supply').  The effects were small at first, and the concurrent elimination of the costs of information (also enabled by the transistor and increase in computational power) masked it, but improving computational power and better algorithms have resulted in it being able to take on an increasing number of roles in production and in the computational side of creativity.  Hence, due to what I have already laid out in another post, there are no longer any limits to supply or controls on creative pursuits.  We now have the problem that we have far too much information and have not developed the tools to evaluate or sort it.  Therefore, investors and creators have no negative signal and can continue pursuing activities and novel ideas way beyond what is prudent.  Until those mechanisms are developed (and they will be), we are likely to see a continuing series of bubbles driven in large part by the unconstrained application of innovation (innovation itself will be hindered by information overload).

In the mean time, people who normally filled computational roles are increasingly displaced (United States manufacturing share is about equivalent to its share in 1980 even while its work force has dropped significantly).  Those who are able to fill more creative or highly skilled human service rolls will (we'll likely see an increasing amount of innovation in all sectors of the economy due to this, but also more competition at the top).  Whereas those who are incapable of providing either of these roles will increasingly compete for the dwindling number of production computational roles that are not readily automated and low skilled human services positions (which society doesn't require enough of to take in all of those displaced in production), hence the massive rise in the services sector in the last couple decades.

As a side note, fiscal and monetary policy will likely become increasingly ineffective as a means to create jobs due to supply's increasing independence from the human population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-825" rel="nofollow">@Chris</a><br />
Continued from above:</p>
<p>The lifting of the computational limit meant that humans were increasingly unnecessary in production (&#8217;supply&#8217;).  The effects were small at first, and the concurrent elimination of the costs of information (also enabled by the transistor and increase in computational power) masked it, but improving computational power and better algorithms have resulted in it being able to take on an increasing number of roles in production and in the computational side of creativity.  Hence, due to what I have already laid out in another post, there are no longer any limits to supply or controls on creative pursuits.  We now have the problem that we have far too much information and have not developed the tools to evaluate or sort it.  Therefore, investors and creators have no negative signal and can continue pursuing activities and novel ideas way beyond what is prudent.  Until those mechanisms are developed (and they will be), we are likely to see a continuing series of bubbles driven in large part by the unconstrained application of innovation (innovation itself will be hindered by information overload).</p>
<p>In the mean time, people who normally filled computational roles are increasingly displaced (United States manufacturing share is about equivalent to its share in 1980 even while its work force has dropped significantly).  Those who are able to fill more creative or highly skilled human service rolls will (we&#8217;ll likely see an increasing amount of innovation in all sectors of the economy due to this, but also more competition at the top).  Whereas those who are incapable of providing either of these roles will increasingly compete for the dwindling number of production computational roles that are not readily automated and low skilled human services positions (which society doesn&#8217;t require enough of to take in all of those displaced in production), hence the massive rise in the services sector in the last couple decades.</p>
<p>As a side note, fiscal and monetary policy will likely become increasingly ineffective as a means to create jobs due to supply&#8217;s increasing independence from the human population.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are Machines Replacing Humans? Or: Am I a Luddite? by Chris</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/asymptosiscomments/~3/PhLUSKRtuVQ/comment-page-1</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymptosis.com/?p=1101#comment-825</guid>
		<description>I've actually done a fair amount of thinking on this recently actually.  Here is some of what I've come up with:

Human economic activity can be broken down into three primary areas:

A. Production - the acquisition and fashioning of resources to create items of value as well as distributing them

B. Creative/Problem Solving - the creation of novel ideas and tools as well as fixing problems in both tools and society as well as directing the distribution of resources

C. Human services - dealing with, helping, controlling, and administering people

For almost all of human history, people were primarily focused on A. The acquisition and creation of the means of survival, namely food, was their highest priority.

The three economic activities can be further broken down in to their primary inputs:

Production: Energy, labor (the work necessary to produce something of value), and computation (the execution of a series of logical steps for a desired result)

Creativity/Problem Solving: Information (the gathering and communication of novel data and ideas), computation (the aggregation and transformation of data into a usable form), and creativity (the generation of new, useful ideas)... See More

Human Services - Information (data on human desires and states), human interaction

Again, most human economic activity was focused on production (primarily energy in the form of food), although people did stray into the other two from time to time.

Up until the industrial revolution people were primarily limited to producing food.  The industrial revolution made people unnecessary for the energy and labor parts of production, but they were still critical for computation.  Since society's food needs are finite the massive boost in farm production made having large numbers of people unnecessary.  This freed them up for industry (and other activities such as creativity and human services) where machines were able to provide energy and labor, but computation was still critical.  Demand is also far less finite and the new machines and energy sources opened up entire new areas of demand.  Therefore, society was able to redeploy the population into a computational role in a vastly expanded economy (not over night mind you, it took the better part of two centuries and some would say longer).  This defined the social/economic order up until the late 1970's/early 1980's (the industrial order).

The invention of the transistor is, along with realizing seeds can be grown into plants, the single most important invention in human history.  Scientific and technological advancement was requiring more and more computation, something humans tend to be inefficient at.  The first artificial computers were huge, slow, and limited.  This kept them constrained to a few niche applications.  The transistor was initially like this, too limited due to its size, but it could be made smaller, much, much smaller.  For a time, shrinking it simply broadened the number of niche applications it could be used for.  In the late 1970's it became small enough (and thereby powerful enough) to begin filling computational roles held by humans.  The computational limit had been lifted and this marked the end of the industrial era.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve actually done a fair amount of thinking on this recently actually.  Here is some of what I&#8217;ve come up with:</p>
<p>Human economic activity can be broken down into three primary areas:</p>
<p>A. Production &#8211; the acquisition and fashioning of resources to create items of value as well as distributing them</p>
<p>B. Creative/Problem Solving &#8211; the creation of novel ideas and tools as well as fixing problems in both tools and society as well as directing the distribution of resources</p>
<p>C. Human services &#8211; dealing with, helping, controlling, and administering people</p>
<p>For almost all of human history, people were primarily focused on A. The acquisition and creation of the means of survival, namely food, was their highest priority.</p>
<p>The three economic activities can be further broken down in to their primary inputs:</p>
<p>Production: Energy, labor (the work necessary to produce something of value), and computation (the execution of a series of logical steps for a desired result)</p>
<p>Creativity/Problem Solving: Information (the gathering and communication of novel data and ideas), computation (the aggregation and transformation of data into a usable form), and creativity (the generation of new, useful ideas)&#8230; See More</p>
<p>Human Services &#8211; Information (data on human desires and states), human interaction</p>
<p>Again, most human economic activity was focused on production (primarily energy in the form of food), although people did stray into the other two from time to time.</p>
<p>Up until the industrial revolution people were primarily limited to producing food.  The industrial revolution made people unnecessary for the energy and labor parts of production, but they were still critical for computation.  Since society&#8217;s food needs are finite the massive boost in farm production made having large numbers of people unnecessary.  This freed them up for industry (and other activities such as creativity and human services) where machines were able to provide energy and labor, but computation was still critical.  Demand is also far less finite and the new machines and energy sources opened up entire new areas of demand.  Therefore, society was able to redeploy the population into a computational role in a vastly expanded economy (not over night mind you, it took the better part of two centuries and some would say longer).  This defined the social/economic order up until the late 1970&#8217;s/early 1980&#8217;s (the industrial order).</p>
<p>The invention of the transistor is, along with realizing seeds can be grown into plants, the single most important invention in human history.  Scientific and technological advancement was requiring more and more computation, something humans tend to be inefficient at.  The first artificial computers were huge, slow, and limited.  This kept them constrained to a few niche applications.  The transistor was initially like this, too limited due to its size, but it could be made smaller, much, much smaller.  For a time, shrinking it simply broadened the number of niche applications it could be used for.  In the late 1970&#8217;s it became small enough (and thereby powerful enough) to begin filling computational roles held by humans.  The computational limit had been lifted and this marked the end of the industrial era.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are Machines Replacing Humans? Or: Am I a Luddite? by Asymptosis</title>
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		<dc:creator>Asymptosis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href="#comment-823" rel="nofollow"&gt;@Chris&lt;/a&gt; 

*Very* good point, which I had not brought up. Spectacularly efficient cognitive sorting since 1900, and especially post-war, while the waterline rises.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-823" rel="nofollow">@Chris</a> </p>
<p>*Very* good point, which I had not brought up. Spectacularly efficient cognitive sorting since 1900, and especially post-war, while the waterline rises.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are Machines Replacing Humans? Or: Am I a Luddite? by Chris</title>
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		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 19:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href="#comment-822" rel="nofollow"&gt;@Asymptosis&lt;/a&gt; 
At the beginning of the 20th century, cognitive capability was heavily distributed throughout all economic strata and substantial arbitrary and economic barriers kept it there.  The industrial era made these arbitrary barriers untenable (as doing so was highly inefficient) and society was forced to remove them.  This resulted in the mass sorting of society by cognitive ability, those at lower strata that had high ability were able to climb up and put their abilities to better use.  This is the main social legacy of the industrial revolution, the elevation of intelligence as the primary determinant of social value (and why people are so resistant to the idea of intelligence).

At this time, in the United States, this sorting is mostly finished (although it is by no means perfect) as judged by decreasing social mobility.  Most of those that could benefit from much greater access to education (it wasn't really 'improved') have benefited.  Now we're going to see an increasingly widening gap between 'haves' (creative elite) and 'have nots' (people who would have traditionally filled computational roles) and accelerating social problems associated with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-822" rel="nofollow">@Asymptosis</a><br />
At the beginning of the 20th century, cognitive capability was heavily distributed throughout all economic strata and substantial arbitrary and economic barriers kept it there.  The industrial era made these arbitrary barriers untenable (as doing so was highly inefficient) and society was forced to remove them.  This resulted in the mass sorting of society by cognitive ability, those at lower strata that had high ability were able to climb up and put their abilities to better use.  This is the main social legacy of the industrial revolution, the elevation of intelligence as the primary determinant of social value (and why people are so resistant to the idea of intelligence).</p>
<p>At this time, in the United States, this sorting is mostly finished (although it is by no means perfect) as judged by decreasing social mobility.  Most of those that could benefit from much greater access to education (it wasn&#8217;t really &#8216;improved&#8217;) have benefited.  Now we&#8217;re going to see an increasingly widening gap between &#8216;haves&#8217; (creative elite) and &#8216;have nots&#8217; (people who would have traditionally filled computational roles) and accelerating social problems associated with it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are Machines Replacing Humans? Or: Am I a Luddite? by Asymptosis</title>
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		<dc:creator>Asymptosis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Chris, good insights, it seems to me.

This is all feeding the feeling that many seem to have: that some fundamental aspect(s) of the economic dynamic have changed since the 70s, at least in the U.S. (And that it's not all due to the 30-year hegemony of Reaganomics--though I believe that has exacerbated the effects.) 

It strikes me that the increase in technology (capacity and distribution) vis-a-vis human cognitive capacities may be a key aspect. Because human cog caps don't change much, and tech obviously does. 

Improved education maintained the ratio for most of the twentieth century. Can it continue to do so? Has it, since the 70s? The numbers suggest "maybe not." If not, will increasing numbers of people fall below the waterline? 

If as a society we're hitting this cognitive limit (which was not true when the Luddites held sway, or for the past 200 years), that fact may answer the challenge of The Luddite Fallacy.

Which I guess would make it the Luddite Fallacy Fallacy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, good insights, it seems to me.</p>
<p>This is all feeding the feeling that many seem to have: that some fundamental aspect(s) of the economic dynamic have changed since the 70s, at least in the U.S. (And that it&#8217;s not all due to the 30-year hegemony of Reaganomics&#8211;though I believe that has exacerbated the effects.) </p>
<p>It strikes me that the increase in technology (capacity and distribution) vis-a-vis human cognitive capacities may be a key aspect. Because human cog caps don&#8217;t change much, and tech obviously does. </p>
<p>Improved education maintained the ratio for most of the twentieth century. Can it continue to do so? Has it, since the 70s? The numbers suggest &#8220;maybe not.&#8221; If not, will increasing numbers of people fall below the waterline? </p>
<p>If as a society we&#8217;re hitting this cognitive limit (which was not true when the Luddites held sway, or for the past 200 years), that fact may answer the challenge of The Luddite Fallacy.</p>
<p>Which I guess would make it the Luddite Fallacy Fallacy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are Machines Replacing Humans? Or: Am I a Luddite? by Chris</title>
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		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ten years seems a bit fast, how exactly would the economy be changed that quickly?  Simply physically deploying the necessary technology takes time (not to mention integrating them into the wider system) and even then you have to deal with the inevitable growing social resistance to it as it displaces more people (which I think we're in the early stages of, just mis-aimed at off-shoring).  What would you say are the lower bounds for the amount of time the economy can double?

I personally think we're undergoing two simultaneous technological revolutions.  The first is that machines are increasingly able to challenge people in the one major remaining role they have in production - computation (which is also critical in other areas).  Thereby humans are no longer necessary for supply (I would date this to the late 70's early 80's, the peak of American manufacturing employment).  The second is that information has essentially become free (Generating novel information still has a price).

I would suggest that both of these are a major cause of the series of bubbles we're undergoing.  Since people are no longer necessary for supply, the number of people employed can no longer serve as a check on the economic growth (in the industrial era, supply was bounded by how many people you could find to fulfill the requisite computational rolls).  It can grow regardless, therefore a valuable signal to investors and 'creators' has been lost.  Combined to that, novel ideas ('memes') can be spread and implemented quickly, but we have yet to develop ways to properly evaluate them (kept in check in the past by the cost of preserving and distributing distributing it).  One idea can cause growth, people know about it and before long everyone is adopting it before all of its implications are understood.  Therefore, it is used in excess without any of the traditional brakes until the flaws in the idea(s) aggregate and the system becomes too unstable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ten years seems a bit fast, how exactly would the economy be changed that quickly?  Simply physically deploying the necessary technology takes time (not to mention integrating them into the wider system) and even then you have to deal with the inevitable growing social resistance to it as it displaces more people (which I think we&#8217;re in the early stages of, just mis-aimed at off-shoring).  What would you say are the lower bounds for the amount of time the economy can double?</p>
<p>I personally think we&#8217;re undergoing two simultaneous technological revolutions.  The first is that machines are increasingly able to challenge people in the one major remaining role they have in production &#8211; computation (which is also critical in other areas).  Thereby humans are no longer necessary for supply (I would date this to the late 70&#8217;s early 80&#8217;s, the peak of American manufacturing employment).  The second is that information has essentially become free (Generating novel information still has a price).</p>
<p>I would suggest that both of these are a major cause of the series of bubbles we&#8217;re undergoing.  Since people are no longer necessary for supply, the number of people employed can no longer serve as a check on the economic growth (in the industrial era, supply was bounded by how many people you could find to fulfill the requisite computational rolls).  It can grow regardless, therefore a valuable signal to investors and &#8216;creators&#8217; has been lost.  Combined to that, novel ideas (&#8216;memes&#8217;) can be spread and implemented quickly, but we have yet to develop ways to properly evaluate them (kept in check in the past by the cost of preserving and distributing distributing it).  One idea can cause growth, people know about it and before long everyone is adopting it before all of its implications are understood.  Therefore, it is used in excess without any of the traditional brakes until the flaws in the idea(s) aggregate and the system becomes too unstable.</p>
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