Since many have asked, I am providing the statement so it can be re-read and prayerfully lived out amongst the men of our body and of the church world-wide.  It is both a form of confession and profession: Confession that we have not always led the way our Lord has called us to, and a profession in that it declares how we should live in light of our Savior’s example and calling in our lives.

Read it, share it, and live it out with me, men.

We, as men who love God and who by faith have been redeemed by the grace offered to us in Jesus Christ, desire to honor our Lord and Savior by following Him in giving our lives away for others as He gave His life away for us.  We want to love as Christ has loved us.  We want to follow His example of servant leadership.  We reject passivity and seek forgiveness for the ways we have abandoned our roles as servant leaders.  We repent of every expression of self-serving, self-exalting, self-loving, abusive, or authoritarian leadership.  We reject the ways of this world, the desires of our flesh, and the lies of the enemy that have resulted in us abandoning our post, living passively, leading in weakness and/or not pursuing God’s intentions for us as men with passion.  Women, we have hurt you by treating you as either objects that exist for our pleasure or servants who exist for our ease.  We have failed to consistently lead you spiritually by studying and applying God’s word to our lives, seeking God’s will,  following God’s way over man’s way, and praying with our wives.  We have allowed pornography to infect our hearts and poison our relationships.  We have not consistently forsaken our own understanding, sought first the Kingdom of Christ and His righteousness, or trusted in God’s way as the right way.  Our lack of Christ-like leadership has hurt you and made it difficult for you to follow us and respect us.  We have made it difficult for you to honor Christ your King because we have lived as if He is not ours.  We need you to forgive us, and we need you to fight with us as God intended.  We need you to live as our partners and God’s provision to spur us on to be passionate about eternal things until that great day when He will bring us home and we shall know Him as we are now known. We need you to pray for us.  We need you to continue to partner with us as we seek to model to a watching world the oneness that God intends for us to enjoy as His redeemed people.  

We need you to complete us with constant grace, steadfast encouragement, appropriate admonition, daily help, life-long perseverance, and God-given strength as we seek to love you as Christ loved the church.  

By God’s grace and by the power of His Spirit which mightily works within us, we purpose to nourish you with truth from His word until we present you in all of God’s intended glory, holy and blameless before Him. We will celebrate your dignity and eternal worth as our co-heirs in Christ and cherish you as is befitting your beauty as God’s gift to us.  We will fight for your honor, celebrate your giftedness, protect you from evil, provide for you needs, care for you with tenderness, and love you as we love our own bodies.  We will thank God for you.  We will live to bless you and serve you.  May God help us as we fulfill our God-given role as servant leaders of the church and family, so that we can love you and give our lives up for you as Christ did His church.   

Many of you heard our president’s recent remarks on homosexuality, and some of you may have been at Watermark yesterday when I shared how we should respond as believers.  You can also check out my comments here.

In addition, I received an email this week with some very helpful resources.  Give this a read and be equipped!

From: Xxxxx Xxxxxx

Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 8:32 PM

To: pastoraloffice
Subject: Fw: TGC: How I Wish the Homosexuality Debate Would Go

Todd,

I’ve debated for several weeks whether or not to seek your guidance on a matter that is creating  a lot of division in my family.  I was raised in what I considered to be a strong Christian family.  Approximately 15 years ago my little brother shocked the whole family when he revealed that he was gay.  He had kept the secret for several years and had sought “Christian” counseling for a few years prior to his declaration.  At the time, he told us all that he was ashamed of his sin and had done everything possible to try to fight it.  He recognized homosexuality as a sin and told us that he was trying to figure out a way to abstain from ever acting on these feelings (we later found out that he had already been in previous hidden relationships).

Sadly, after many years of counseling and soul searching, he has reconciled his sin as acceptable to God has recently joined a church (one of the growing many) that has twisted the Gospel into convincing homosexuals that God has somehow “changed” and believes they can continue in their lifestyles as long as they are married or in “committed” relationships in states where gay marriage is banned.  Sadly, two of my three siblings have also Biblically reconciled this lifestyle as acceptable to God and are now encouraging him to pursue this lifestyle in an effort to find a partner he can spend his life with.

We have been exchanging emails back and forth for several weeks, but the conversations always end in the same result below.  I believe that the commentary that my little brother’s best friend (a strong believer) posted below was perfectly stated.  I’m convinced that the rebuttal from my brother is coming from his pastor and other gay Christian friends.

I would love to get your thoughts on the statement below where he makes the assumption that God has “evolved”, as evidence of his grieving over creating mankind in Genesis.  My other brother has echoed this same sentiment and questions Xxxxx’s multiple references to sexual deviance as being out of touch with today’s homosexuals.  Most of my siblings believe that I am not sensitive to my brother’s natural, “God given” tendencies and just want him to be lonely his whole life.  This couldn’t be further from the truth as I deeply love my brother and just want God’s best for his life.

Thank you for your prayers and your wisdom!

Xxxxx

Email chain between Xxxxx, his brother, and another friend.

 From: Friend of Xxxxx and Xxxxx’s brother

Subject: TGC: How I Wish the Homosexuality Debate Would Go

This is a great article on how the writer wishes a conversation would go between a talk show host and evangelical pastor on gay marriage.

By the way, I highly recommend www.thegospelcoalition.org — tons of consistently great content there, articles, short blog posts, video and audio.

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2011/10/18/how-i-wish-the-homosexuality-debate-would-go/

From: Xxxxx’s Brother
Subject: Re: TGC: How I Wish the Homosexuality Debate Would Go

There’s another aspect of this argument that goes undiscussed…  Actions are not sins merely for the sake of being sins… When we sin, we hurt ourselves and those around us.. They are self-destructive and lead to estrangement between God and the sinner…  We can see explicitly what it does to the adulterer, to the thief, to the murderer, to the liar, to the prostitute.. To a lesser degree, we see what it does to those who fornicate… Obviously, there are many who have had sex before marriage, whose marriages have ended up working out and being “fruitful.”

For the homosexual, however, there has never been an opportunity to marry, so they are always trapped in a perpetual state of sin, only when they “act out” of course.  Because of this, they wrap their identities around their sexuality which leads to all sorts of debauchery and wickedness— the worst of which is a complete abandonment of spirituality-  belief in or closeness with God.  

 This brings us to the question as to whether homosexuality is innate or developmental.  Everyone knows my struggle in this regard.  My views have changed.  Some might say my views  evolved.  Some might say they’ve devolved.  Honestly though, I really don’t care anymore what people think.  I know where I stand at this moment in my life, and I feel closer to God then ever before.  I may have a completely different view 10 years from now, I may not.  I just ask God to guide me however He can 

I believe God changes in relationship to us.  The core of God never changes— pure and unconditional love.  We see proof of this when God grieved that he had made man in the Old Testament.  I’m being borderline heretical right now, and digging into this question is for another time… But… 

I believe gay people, particularly Christian gay people, have matured— and I believe God’s relationship toward the homosexual condition has perhaps changed.   

I have a friend named Xxxx— he happens to be engaged to a man.  I know that sounds strange and probably very uncomfortable to hear, but he is one of the most loving, well rounded individuals I’ve ever met.  Unlike most gays, he never grew up with this stigma that homosexuality is wrong or unnatural.  In fact, his parents told him he was gay before he told them.  And they made it very clear that they had no problem with it and they loved him as much as their other children.  As a result, he never went through a period of self hatred… Unlike the vast majority of gays I know.

He can’t relate to his partner’s or my struggle with being gay.  It’s completely foreign to him…  

People like to believe that all of the debauchery and sadness and hyper-sexuality and promiscuity is a result of being gay.  But I believe it’s a result of self-hatred.  I’ve seen it in too many people.  

I know most Christians will never believe that sexual union between two people of the same gender is condoned by God — married or unmarried.  The scriptures are clear that the homosexual behavior at the time of Paul was deviant and evil.  But homosexuality at that time  was often combined in Pagan ritual.  It was often an older man and a submissive boy.  It was prostitutes… And so on…

 But homosexual people today are much different then they were back then.  

God is complex— we will never understand His mind while we are here on this earth.  Only He can see what lies at the core of all human behavior.  

What I’m trying to get across is…

Why not grant homosexuals the right to marry so that they don’t have to live in sin?  Homosexuality will never go away.  More and more people know someone or have a family member who is gay.  Don’t you want them to have the same rights to be as happy as you are?  

 Don’t you believe God is loving and that perhaps He approves of certain homosexual relationships?

The friends referenced above are two of the most wonderful people I know.  And their relationship is pure.  One of them became a Christian recently.   

Instead of intellectualizing everything and making Biblical views black or white, let’s take a look at the face of these relationships that are so condemned.  God might bring ease to your minds.

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 8:33 AM
To: Xxxxx Xxxxxx
Cc: Johnny Hawkins
Subject: RE: TGC: How I Wish the Homosexuality Debate Would Go

Xxxxx…glad you are asking and thanks for reaching out.  Though I understand that your question is primarily about the innate nature of God and how He or His character doesn’t change, I’d also love to offer you a resource that I think would be most helpful to you.  Below is the link to a message I did on homosexuality in 2004.  If you’ve never listened, this may be helpful to you as you continue to speak truth to your family.

http://www.watermark.org/media/homosexuality-and-same-sex-marriage-an-apology-an-answer-an-assignment/457/

I would agree with you that God’s convictions don’t change…in fact, Numbers 23:19 is clear in saying this.  Look it up and be encouraged! I am as saddened as you are by man’s attempts to define God based on their own finite understanding.  Does God deeply love your brother and others in his lifestyle?  Absolutely.  Is He surprised by his choices? No, and He is absolutely grieved by the self-inflicting pain that can be caused.

Also…to continue to dive into whether these tendencies are “God-given”, I’d encourage you to check out Ricky Chellette’s ministry at livehope.org.  You can also see some of what he has taught at Watermark here:

http://www.watermark.org/media/homosexuality-why-isnt-this-taught-warning-explicit-content/1027/

One last suggestion, and that is to continue to bring these sorts of issues to your consistent community around you so that they can be a source of encouragement for you, help you research these questions, and pray for your family.  I’m looping in Johnny Hawkins here, who is the director over your community group, as I know he would love to jump into the conversation.

For the record, I thought the hypothetical interview in the link was great.  Praying for you and your family, and grateful with you for Hebrews 13:8!

Todd

214-239-8809

www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags

pastoraloffice@watermark.org

www.watermark.org

I came across an interesting email interaction I had with a Watermark member that I thought might be instructive/informative to more folks.  Take a look at this question, see how you would reply, and then search Scripture with me to see what a biblical response would be.  Would love to see your thoughts/comments!

From: Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:43 PM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: Question for Todd

Todd,

I called to see if I could talk to you a little about this, but discovered that you were in a meeting that goes for a long time; so I’m sending my question via email……..

A good question has come up that we are discussing in Community, and I’d really like to get your input. The question is whether or not it’s good enough to confess that Christ is the son of God, that He died for our sins, and the confession of our sins for us to get to heaven……..going to John 5:24 and many many other verses where hearing the word, and believing gives eternal life. We also have several places like Matt 7:21-23 which says that it just isn’t that simple. John 3:18-21 seems to take that middle ground of describing what “belief” is by telling us that whoever lives by the truth comes into the light…….therefore adding that its more than just confession, but living by the truth…………..so I think that it all falls on the definition of “belief”, and what that means………so if you don’t mind imparting your thoughts on this subject, many of us would appreciate your insight.

Thanks again.

From: pastoraloffice [mailto:pastoraloffice@watermark.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:40 AM
To: Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxx
Cc: Jeff Kramer
Subject: RE: Question for Todd

Clay…great question, and I’m glad this is something you are discussing in the context of community/searching Scripture on with others.  That is typically the best way that I learn, and I’m encouraged that your group is challenging each other in this way.

To answer your question, I do think it comes down to how you define the word “believe”. Romans 10:9-10 says, “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses,resulting in salvation.”  I think we can go through life with an intellectual understanding of the Gospel, but not allowing it to transfer to heart knowledge/infuse the core of our being.  That kind of belief changes you and re-centers your life.

Faith in something isn’t a feeling, but something to be put into action.  I often like to say that we are “saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone”, something I think I ripped off Martin Luther’s friend friend Melanchthon that he surmised from the Pastoral Epistles. You can check out this video that I helped our friends at Igniter Media put together…it more addresses the question of being saved by grace or works, but it is still applicable to your question of what qualifies that belief:

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=J200BCNU 

Below are also some links to messages where I’ve taught on this before.  It would be great if you could go back and listen to these as well:

http://www.watermark.org/media/salvation-two-equal-and-opposite-errors-and-why-getting-them-straight-matters/1105/

http://www.watermark.org/media/sons-slaves-and-freedom-indeed/2007/

Hope that helps.  Keep throwing those thoughts around in your group…I’ve CC’d Jeff Kramer here, who is the point person on staff for your community group so he can throw in and be of any help that he needs to…I know he’d love to join the discussion!

Todd Wagner| pastoraloffice@watermark.org

www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags

www.watermark.org

214.239.8809

Jump in.

From: Xxxxx Xxxxxx
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:46 PM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: Question

Todd,

Sorry to bug you with a random question about politics. Our community group was having a discussion about whether or not it was ok to throw your support behind a candidate, running for office, whom is not a believer. The focus was on Mitt Romney who I believe is Mormon?

Every year since I have turned eighteen I have voted, and have even convinced others to vote. I am convinced that not voting is a vote. As Christ followers would it be wrong for us to vote for a candidate who does not believe in our God?

Thank you so much for your time,

Xxxxx Xxxxxx

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 10:14 AM
To: Xxxxx Xxxxxx
Subject: RE: Question

Xxxxx…love your passion to elect Godly men and women into our country’s leadership positions.  I have actually spoken about this topic several times at Watermark, and I think you would love going back and listening to those messages…they should answer your question and continually be informative on what Scripture has to say about these issues.

I’ve included some links below…I would listen in the order I have linked them.  Hope these are helpful!

http://www.watermark.org/media/believers-and-their-government-what-governs-our-usefulness-in-it/816/

http://www.watermark.org/media/the-wolf-at-the-door-and-whose-job-it-is-to-take-him-on/1725/

http://www.watermark.org/media/the-wall-of-bronze-and-whose-job-it-is-to-be-it/1729/

http://www.watermark.org/media/breaking-down-the-wall-of-our-ineffectiveness-in-serving-the-state/1274/

Todd Wagner| pastoraloffice@watermark.org

www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags

www.watermark.org

214.239.8809

I had another great email exchange recently that I wanted to share with you all. Hope this is a source of encouragement and training for us all as we seek to commune with God as we “draw near with confidence to the throne of grace” (Hebrews 4:16)!

From: Xxxx Xxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:53 AM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: faith and prayer

Today’s Journey wrapped around “And Jesus answered saying to them, “Have faith in God. Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him.” ” (Mark 11:22-23)

Matthew 18:18, 19 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.  Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, IT SHALL BE DONE for them by My Father who is in heaven.

So my question is this…I have NO problem whatsoever believing that God CAN do anything! Anything. What I struggle with is can we believe He WILL do anything? I mean, according to scripture, it seems that we can believe that He will. But, what about the person for whom we stood in faith that God would heal their cancer this side of heaven and died anyway. Was that because I doubted? Or was it just part of God’s plan? I trust Him for His plan. I may not like. I may pitch a fit at first, but my heart comes around to knowing how great His love is. He is sovereign. I trust Him wholeheartedly, even though I may be caught off guard at first and lose my balance.

Do these verses literally mean that I can pray and believe that another’s heart WILL be changed to line up with God’s Word? Proverbs 21:1 says, ‘The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hands of the Lord. He turns it wherever He will.”

If I’m not seeing results, is it because of doubt? God says He is not a liar and that His Word will not return void. I don’t believe that it is idealistic to think that it is that simple. Its either Truth or its not. I have to remind myself that what I see with my mortal eye isn’t always as it appears. Maybe, the other factor is that it isn’t His timing. Truth be told, I may never see the answer to my prayer this side of heaven. But that doesn’t mean the ‘WILL” didn’t happen. Then my mind goes back to the example ‘what about the person for whom we prayed healing this side of heaven and it didn’t happen? Is it because I doubted? Then, the big question becomes how do I change the doubt?

What is your input?

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:02 PM
To: Xxxx Xxxxxx
Subject: RE: faith and prayer

Xxxx…great questions about prayer.  For starters, I’d love for you to check out a series I did several years ago here called Vacate…the link is below, and I think it will be helpful.  Also linked below is a message in an apologetics series I did, responding to critics who ask the question, “Why should I waste my time praying when God knows what He’s going to do already?”

http://www.watermark.org/media/the-foundation-for-prayer-the-real-thee-talking-with-the-real-thou/859/

http://www.watermark.org/media/if-god-already-knows-what-hes-going-to-do-why-should-i-waste-my-time-trying-to-talk-to-him/295/

You are correct in saying that God CAN do anything.  And He loves His people enough to listen to our hearts/requests/want to spend time with us in prayer.  But His sovereign plan to glorify Himself is of His utmost concern as that is in everyone’s best interest…to know and understand who this God is that we are praying to.

If you feel that you aren’t seeing “results”, I would challenge you with two things: 1) to change your focus of prayer from results to communion with God; 2) remember that, as you have referenced, God’s ways are higher than our ways (Isaiah 55:8) and there are always multiple reasons that He may not choose to honor requests that we present to Him.  Faith pleases God (Hebrews 11:6) but it is not a force which obligates Him.  He is sovereign, good and wise.  I love this statement by Spurgeon: “God is too good to be unkind. He is too wise to be confused. If I cannot trace His hand, I can always trust His heart.”

Keep at it…would love to see you processing my response/the messages & Scripture above with your community group and see what they think/how they can continue to encourage you as well in this area.

I look forward to hearing how the messages and the conversation with your community helped you!

Psalm 46:10,

Todd Wagner| pastoraloffice@watermark.org
www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

A number of you specifically asked about the ‘battlefield story’ I used.  It was a powerful image to me when I read it and it was clear that it resonated with hundreds of you yesterday.  I pulled much of it from this link http://www.unearthedpictures.org/blog/fornicating-on-the-battlefield/

At the end I broadened it beyond Tony’s focus on pornography and added the following.

Meanwhile your kids are alone and wondering where their hero is.  Your wife is numb from the betrayal of your broken promises and endless affairs with your job, your iphone, your career, your alma mater , your xbox or your fantasy football league.  Your soul is empty.  Your sadness is growing.  You can taste your despair.  The only thing that keeps you going is the circle of other weak men you call friends or the isolation that allows you to convince yourself it really isn’t that bad, others are doing worse or your family is happy because of the way you provide for them.  But inside you are dying, wondering how you became so weak…so defeated…so pitiful. 

You were created for glory.  You are the son of a King but the Kingdom is so far from where you live the pigs that are your neighbors look more like brothers than swine that you are to rule over.  It doesn’t have to be this way…but you have to have the courage to acknowledge that you have left home.  You have to accept the fact that you have abandoned your throne.  The queen is lonely.  The young prince in your home is without a noble example. The princesses given to you are vulnerable to liars that pose as lovers.  You have to confess that you have left your King…and that the one you now serve is stealing your joy, killing your hope and destroying your life. 

You have to love the truth more than you fell the pain. You have to be strong.  It is time to grow up.  Time to be a man. 

Praying for you now…that you gird up your loins with the belt of truth and protect your heart with the breastplate of righteousness so you can lead and protect others.  Love to know your thoughts on week one if you were there or if you give it a listen and join me in praying for all the men that will join us for the next 4 weeks.

Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
Let all that you do be done in love.
1 Corinthians 16:13–14

 For those who don’t want to hit the link above..below is the portion I read from the unearthed site.

Fornicating on the Battlefield by Tony Anderson

When I ask men about their sexual behavior, most guys are surprisingly honest when anonymity is a factor. We’ve spoken about porn, oral sex, prostitution, lust, marriage, thoughts, immorality, intimacy, desires, homosexuality, masturbation, sexual abuse, incest, greed, and idolatry. I’ve eaten meals with pastors, executives, bankers, doctors, religious people, church planters, frat guys, students, entrepreneurs, traffickers, and average guys that work 40 hours a week and stay relatively pure.

Most of us had absent fathers. 1 in 5 of us were sexually abused. Every one of us has learned the art of concealing sin. Around 80% of men in the church are currently using pornography. Some of us don’t need a girlfriend because we’re in full-fledged relationship with our hand or laptop. And some of us know the feeling of cold emptiness after leaving a strip club or a brothel. Some of you men know what it’s like to go to sleep next to an empty shell of a woman that used to be your wife because your infatuation with photoshopped women has extinguished the intimacy. You’re no longer lovers, you’re roommates with children. Some of you are fathers that see your sexual sin manifested in your children, but you’re too fearful to expose it in your own life regardless of the damage its doing to your marriage and family. “What if coming out with this stuff makes things worse?” is the only question you’ve thought of.

I know where you’re at. I know what you’re thinking. And I know the lies you’re deceived by. I’ve been where some of you are.

A good friend of mine has battled sexual addiction all of his life. He’s a graduate of Bible college and is part of a healthy church. He’s got a lovingly invasive community and has had numerous Godly mentors pushing him towards Jesus for the last 7 years, but he still uses pornography every chance he gets—disabling the X3 watch on his phone and computer. If he’s alone for longer than 30 minutes with an internet connection, he begins searching for filth. He still habitually masturbates. He lies about his sin. He conceals his secrets. He manipulates Christian women into sinning with him, then he lies about that. He exemplifies the epitome of selfishness and a lack of self control.

But he also calls Jesus his Lord…Are you that guy? It’s sometimes an anomaly to me when men can be sexually enslaved while following Jesus, yet that’s what the overwhelming majority of them tend to be living. Can the two coexist? Are they diametrically opposed? Isn’t one the antithesis of the other?

I’m not going to quote your favorite authors or offer free accountability software. I don’t have a PDF to read or an invitation to a men’s conference. You’ve probably already tried those things. You’ve read books and made countless commitments, which you’ve broken. You’ve tried accountability. You’ve gone through a “freedom season.” You’ve confessed your sin. You’ve been rebuked. You’ve disconnected the internet. You’ve been kicked out of the house. You’ve destroyed the computer. You’ve memorized the Word of God. You’ve pleaded with Jesus to remove the thorn in your flesh. You’ve shouted, screamed, and wept. You’ve tried everything and you’re still shackled.

Just imagine for a moment that this is reality: You’re on a battlefield. It’s dark. Chaotic. Cold wind is whipping your face. The stench of death fills the air. Corpses of demons lie all around you and the field is soaked in blood. You can hear the sounds of armor and weapons colliding while sparks are flying. Screams pierce your ears.

You see chiseled, powerful beings radiating in white and they’re destroying shadows, gripping the throats of principalities and slitting them with iridescent blades. But you’re without armor. You wonder how you got to this place and why you came unprepared.

“ Since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles.”

Men that you recognize are rushing the opposite direction—spears aligned, ready to throw. Swords sharpened, shields fixed, helmets lowered they’re ready for battle. They’re calling for you to join them. They’re rushing for the front lines—they’re unafraid. They know they’ve been given victory.

But not you. You’ve got your pants down around your ankles. You’re roaming in circles looking for the seductress that’s calling you by name. You can’t wait to fornicate on the battlefield.

And all the while, the kingdom is coming. The lost are being found. The sick are being healed. Demonic assignments are being cancelled. The veil is being lifted off of false religion and the persecuted church is exponentially growing in the face of opposition. Jesus is authoritatively mediating a covenant—the Spirit is interceding for the children of God, breathing life into dry bones.

I thought I would share my answers with you so you could share in thanking the Lord with me for His grace on us as well as join me in praying that we would be effective in the days and opportunities ahead.

Here were the questions:

1. What are you most excited about at your church? What is going on really well?

2. What are two or three challenges/opportunities that you have to figure out solutions for over the next 12-36 months?

Below are my answers.  I hope they encourage all of my Watermark friends out there.

What are you most excited about at your church? What is going really well?

1. I’m excited that we continue to stay on mission. I think we have met/are meeting the challenge of moving from a start-up/entrepreneurial/edgy church to an established church with a great physical plant. While we look like we have “been around forever” from the outsider’s eye, I think the call, the commitment, the passion, and the heart of what we wanted to be are thriving as much as ever. We still measure our success by our ability to be and make disciples and we are just as committed as ever to be biblical and authentic rather than big and impressive.

2. We are completely grateful for and intentional about the culture we have been able to create and maintain for our current staff and core leadership. Deep commitment, high passion, authentic beyond the buzzword, deep trust, and high professional/relational/spiritual trust are rampant.

3. I’m also grateful for the fact that we continue to develop, attract and deploy leaders. I keep hearing others say that leadership development is a major area of struggle/concern for their body….while we always want to do better, I am thrilled that Watermark is being used by God to discover, develop, and deploy leaders (Christ-followers, servant leaders, eternally-minded, culturally  relevant, and engaged leaders) on a tremendous scale.

4. I am excited about the things we have developed/are developing that will allow us to be more useful to other communities that desire to effectively and courageously be salt and light amidst the opportunities of their complex, continually changing, and challenging communities, countries, and world.

Some of these include:

ReEngage: A revolutionary way to serve marriages across a broad spectrum of health, develop leaders, reduce pastoral care issues, give couples a chance to lead and minister together, restore the church community to its intended place of care, help and restoration. We say whether your marriage needs to be REIGNITED or is in need of a complete RESURRECTION, REENGAGE is a safe place for couples to RECONNECT. The truth is that ReEngage is an effective place where communities of believers care for one another, disciple one another, admonish, encourage and help one another with great patience and instruction. Marriages are helped and healed, the lost are reached, hope is restored, and discipleship happens.

Re:generation: Re:gen is our recovery ministry. We were willing and grateful partners with Celebrate Recovery for years and saw the Lord do great things through our partnership. But from the beginning there were some areas where we did things differently than they preferred (with the knowledge and understanding) while still partnering with them. However the asked us not to mentor/help/teach other churches b/c of these differences. After years of careful conversation with our friends at CR we determined the best way for us to continue impacting our community and serve churches across the world was to develop our own curriculum and model. It has proven extremely effective and life-giving, and we look forward to sharing this material/strategy with others so they can serve the recovery community well.

Merge: Our tremendous pre-marital ministry and strategy.

Foundation Groups: Hundreds of new marriages get off to a great start as a result of these communities and curriculum.

The Journey: An innovative and effective tool that allows our body to interact daily over God’s word. It reduces a tremendous increase in Bible intake across our body, develops unity and intimacy among our large body, and is easily transferable to another community of faith.

Porch: One of the most effective Young Adult communities in the country producing transformed lives, healthy Christ-followers, future leaders, and a deep connection with this demographic within the larger church.

Other areas of strength and gladness not mentinoed:    (a) Annual spiritual advancement/re-covenanting efforts that keep vision and focus alive before core members.  (b) Equipping days/great questions classes/counterpoint lunches.  (c) On-line broadcast of complete services.  (d) Facility development, design and completion.

What are the two or three challenges/opportunities that you have to figure out solutions for over the next 12-36 months?

1. Number one here will always be maintaining, improving, focusing excellence and commitment to the first three “successes” above.
2. Effective launch and development of Watermark satellite campuses.
3. We are working on increasing our intentional recruitment and development strategy for future vocational ministry leaders. Something that will supplement or potentially even replace the current models as the preferred place for church leadership (as opposed to academic/professorial/research) training.

As you know, from time to time I like to post some questions I have received via email along with my response in an effort to open the dialogue to a wider audience/make the answer known to others. Below is a recent interaction I had with someone wrestling with answers to whether God is a God of the poor or the rich. Read below and let me know your thoughts. May we all serve Him with increasing boldness and integrity today.

From: Xxxxx Xxxxxx
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 9:19 PM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: A poor man’s god

Hey Todd,

I brought a friend to service two Sundays ago for the sermon on hell. I thought the sermon was fantastic but afterward he gave me his thoughts which were: “It sounded like God is a god of the poor”. I tried explaining to him that even though at the surface of the passage it appears God favors Lazarus and punishes the rich man (‘You in your lifetime received good things while Lazarus in his received bad things’), God did not punish the rich man with the consequence of hell solely because of the luxury he exhibited on earth. Rather, God punished the rich man because he did not help Lazarus. And again, on the surface it may seem that if you are wealthy and do not serve the poor, that you will go to hell. Not helping Lazarus in this situation was evidence that the rich man did not accept Jesus Chris and follow his teachings — the real reason for the rich man’s admission to hell.

Hopefully my initial response to his observation was accurate and summarized the sermon.

While I know that God IS a god of the poor…can you help provide me with some scripture and talking points that I can share with my friend that will allow him to know who God is with regards to his observation/thinking? — I want him to know that being wealthy/inheriting riches is not a sin, but what we think we possess is not ours and as Christians we have responsibilities in how we use what the Lord has afforded us.

Really struggling with how to respond biblically to his perception of rich vs. poor. Thanks for your help.

Xxxxx Xxxxxx

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:31 AM
To: Xxxxx Xxxxxx
Subject: RE: A poor man’s god

Xxxxx…great question and I’m glad you are asking. As you know JP was teaching that Sunday as I was just getting back from teaching in Africa. What a great message for you to interact with your friend over. More conversation may be in order, but I’ll give a quick and brief response to get the ball moving.

God is not the God of the poor or the rich. He is the God of the poor AND the rich. Proverbs 22:2. God doesn’t care if we are prospering or living in poverty. He cares that we are living properly in relationship with Him, and therefore one another. Matt 22:36-40. The Scriptures teach us that God blesses those who are poor IN SPIRIT (Matthew 5:3)…and as we can also see through the story of the rich young ruler (Matthew 19:16-26) often worldly riches set us up to rely more on what is tangible versus humbling ourselves before a God who works in our weaknesses. Solomon makes it clear that it is better to be poor and walk in integrity than it is to be rich and be crooked (Proverbs 28:6). May I say it is better to be rich and walk in integrity than to be poor and crooked. Bottom line, we have no integrity (no wholeness of soul) without the grace of God making us new in Him. (Titus 3:5-6). I know many rich men who are “rich young rulers”, and also other rich men who are as humble as Lazarus with their lives and all that the Lord has entrusted them with.

There are examples of men who though they were rich became overly poor in Spirit and as such found life in Christ. Zacchaeus in Luke 19 immediately comes to mind. Again the issue is not our net worth, but whether or not we believe our net worth was fully displayed when the Father allowed the Son to demonstrate His love for us while we were yet full of ourselves (rich in sin and poor in righteousness).

Really glad you are seeking answers and bringing folks to join you at Watermark. I hope your friend comes back with you soon, and please make sure you both come up and shake my hand when you do.

Numbers 6:24-26,

Todd Wagner| pastoraloffice@watermark.org
www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

1. It multiplies my time.
2. Life change happens best in the context of relationships.
3. It keeps the conversation going and multiplies the questions.
4. It removes the “excitement” of getting to be “the guy” who got some time with “the guy”.
5. It minimizes any confusion that might come in something I said because only one set of ears heard it. (Of course, the opposite is also true. My stupidity could be confirmed by the masses and I’m willing to take that risk.  I have had a lot more trouble with the former than the latter.  People who are “advice seeking” love to isolate their counselors so they are the sole arbiter/interpreter of what they heard from their “multitude” of counselors.  Meeting with 10 different “counselors” one at a time is infinitely worse than meeting with the 10 of them together, and since it is hard to get 10 counselors together at once the next best thing is to have your community with you when you meet with any counselor.)
6. It produces immediate accountability if something is shared that needs to be acted on.
7. Nothing else comes to mind, but 7 is the perfect number, and I wanted to put something that looks like I had perfect thoughts on this.

The other thing I almost always share with people, and ask from them, is for them to come with questions. The majority of the time, I ask for the questions, or at least a good representation of what the main question(s) are going to be, in advance.  I know from experience that if folks really have questions, firing them right back is NO problem.  If, however, they are a victim of the “if I can just get a meal/cup of coffee with ‘the guy’ then my life will change, my dating life will pick up, my career will advance, I will become more popular and Jesus will be able to use me more” mentality, I sometimes don’t hear back.

So read the below, use the above, and keep seeking Jesus with all your heart.

Jesus is available, is worth telling others you know Him personally and you can spend all the time alone with Him you want.

Proverbs 4:7

Five Ways to Find a Mentor

By Michael Hyatt (This is a guest post by Daniel Darling. He is the Senior Pastor of Gages Lake Bible Church in the northwest suburbs of Chicago and is the author of iFaith, Connecting with God in the 21st Century. You can read his blog or follow him on Twitter. If you want to guest post on this blog, check out the guidelines here.)

The value of a mentor cannot be overestimated. A mentor is someone who is a few laps ahead of you in an area of life where you wish to find success. More than formal training, more than a book or a seminar, a good mentor brings his or her personal experience to bear on your life in a way that may shape it forever.

But how to find one? It’s actually easier than you think. Here are five ways to find a mentor:

1. Don’t Start with Seth Godin or Max Lucado. Yes, we’d all love to have someone at the top of our profession mentor us. But not only is this unrealistic, it’s also unhelpful. Chances are that the advice of someone at the very top would be intimidating or unhelpful to you at your current pace of life. Instead, look for someone a few levels ahead of you in your chosen field. Someone accessible to you. There is a pastor in my community whose church is medium-sized, but not mega. Since I pastor a small church, he’s perfect for me and has the time.
2. Attend trade functions or gatherings in your community. As a pastor, I regularly attend pastor’s gatherings in our area. I’ve also done this in the Christian publishing field. Simply attending and meeting new people has led to many rich mentoring relationships. If you stay inside your office your entire life, you’ll never experience the opportunity to be enriched by the wisdom of others.
3. Make friendships through simple conversation. You don’t find a mentor by asking someone, “Can you be my mentor?” That’s a bit awkward and may seem to put a heavy burden on someone who doesn’t know you very well. Instead, meet people, develop relationships through conversation and let natural human interaction be your guide.
4. Follow up with a request to meet again, one-on-one. If you’ve gotten to know someone you think you can learn from, get his contact information and ask him something like, “Hey, I’d love to sit for coffee and pick your brain on _______.” This is the intentional part of finding a mentor. I’ve done this a number of times both with pastors and with writers and have found them eager to share what they know about their chosen field.
5. Ask questions. When you do meet for coffee, pepper the mentor with questions and then sit back and listen. Ask him questions like, “How did you get into this field?” “What have you learned over the years?” “What do you think of this idea?” Don’t try to wow him with all you’ve done. You’re there to learn from his success.

Mentoring relationships are valuable . . . and they aren’t complicated. They are simply friendships which have the potential to help shape your future.

Oh, and a bonus tip: pick up the tab. The wisdom you gain is well worth the price of a latte.

I get this question a lot, and my answer is always the same.

Pursue Him; don’t pursue usefulness to Him.

God is not looking for gifted people to use. He is looking for people who know that “apart from Him they can do nothing”. This is good news for the myriad who are convinced they are “one talent people” who have been denied the intellect of Lewis, the passion of Piper, the daring of Driscoll, or the platform of Tebow. God is not looking for great men. He is and always has been looking for faithful men. Not men who say they love Him, who want to be used by Him, who want to “do something great for God”. He is looking for those who know He is sufficient in all things.

Men who know that stutterers and sticks are enough for God to deliver nations.

Men who know that slings and stones in the hands of servants of the King slay giants.

Not men who talk about what God + nothing can do, but men who know that 10 talents – God can do nothing.

Solomon reminds us that “many a man proclaims his own loyalty, but who can find a trustworthy man?” (Prov 20:6) He isn’t looking for people who give Him lip service, He is looking for men who fill their lips and hearts with HIS word.

It is the bane of gifted “type A’s” to charge ahead full of good intentions and passion without great dependence and constant prayer.

It is the bad of all of us to consider our apparent lack of gifts or resources to be a hindrance to an all sufficient God. Our God loves the impossible and He majors in using the impoverished to do impossible things.

I have purposed to base my ministry on the truth of 2 Chronicles 16:9, believing God is not looking for the strongly gifted, but the strongly surrendered to support.

The question that haunts me every day is this: “If I were an all-sufficient God concerned with advancing my glory for the good of all, would I support Todd Wagner as a vessel for my purposes?” My ministry rises and falls with God’s thoughts on that question.

I’m more grateful for grace than I am for my gifts. How about you?

As you know, from time to time I get questions via email, and in answering them, want to share those responses with a broader audience in an effort to further instruct/encourage. Recently I was forwarded a request to read through the story of a woman who is precious to the Lord and suffering with Type 1 diabetes. As much as I sympathize with her plight and want to see the Lord heal her, I cannot Biblically justify some of her reasoning behind wanting to have research done for her disease in the manner she is pleading. Read below and think through how you would respond!

From: Xxxxxxx Xxxxxx
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 11:33 AM
Subject: Pass this on!

Hey Peeps,

This is not my story. This is someone else’s, but she makes awesome points. She makes the same points that I try to make, but can’t always get across in a fluid fashion. I copied and pasted her story from the JDRF website so you might see the impact this stupid disease has on people who “follow the rules”. I realize that I have broken a few here and there, and so my credibility may be lacking. I urge you to think about this young lady and what she is saying. Furthermore, I don’t personally condone stem cell research on aborted fetuses, but there are tons in storage right now just sitting there. Use your judgement on that point. The rest of this stuff is dead on! So, please read it, think about it, and do something about it. Write somebody a letter. Donate a dollar the next time a Juvenile Diabetes Research Fund sneaker campaign comes around. Talk to your pharmacy reps and ask them why. Please, do something! My days are numbered folks. I have a beautiful little girl to raise and I cannot explain these things to her. So, please, do something. Thanks for reading my impassioned email for the day.;)

“I’ve had Type 1 diabetes for 40 years. I’m almost 42, so diabetes has been a part of my life for as long as I can remember. When I was diagnosed in 1969, medicines & care protocols were primitive by today’s standards – but they were affordable. Today, the insulin I use, available only with a prescription, is over $100 per bottle without insurance coverage. A bottle might last a month, but often doesn’t for most diabetics. Insulin is not a luxury; it is critical for surviving with Type 1 diabetes. Without insulin, we WILL die.

The test strips we use to check our blood glucose levels can cost nearly $125 for a box of 100, without insurance. Type 1s should test at least 4 times a day for adequate disease management. A box lasts less than a month at that rate of testing. I use an insulin pump, which is a much more powerful tool for disease management than multiple daily injections. The pump itself is a one-time cost ranging from $1,000 to $6,000. Yet I must meet a high deductible before insurance will cover even part of the cost of the supplies for the pump. The pump I use has disposable pods-which I fill with insulin-that must be changed every 3 days. A recent order of 3 boxes of pods cost $735. Based on that bill, a box of 10, which lasts a month, costs about $250. So every month I spend $250 on a box of pods, $100 for a bottle of insulin & $125 for a box of test strips. So diabetes costs me roughly $475 EACH month, not counting the cost of other meds I take.

And God help me if I lose my job & can’t get another one before my “prior credible coverage” period (usually 12 months) runs out. I’ll be unable to get health insurance on my own. Period. Once I find a job, I’ll be subject to a pre-existing condition waiting period, lasting anywhere from 6 months to a year or more. So insurance wouldn’t pay for the prescriptions & doctor visits I need in order to stay healthy, but they’d pay for the dialysis after my kidneys have failed because I couldn’t afford the insulin I need to survive. Illogical.

Something must be done to rein in the skyrocketing cost of the healthcare & meds we need just to survive. Insurance companies must be taken to task for their callous disregard for the health of their clients, & must reform their standards for coverage & care. Right now in America, insurance isn’t for healthcare; it’s for profit. That is greedy, shortsighted, & downright immoral.

Funding for research to cure Type 1 diabetes is just as important. So many huge advances have been made in the last few years in stem cell research that a cure may actually be found in my lifetime. People against embryonic stem cell research argue about the “rights of the unborn”, but my response is that I am already here & I am suffering. Am I less deserving of rights than a clump of cells in a petri dish? If so, why? Elected officials spend a lot of time worrying about the “unborn” while their living constituents suffer physically.”

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 10:17 AM
To: Xxxxxxx Xxxxxx
Subject: RE: Pass this on!

Xxxxxxx,

With great compassion for this woman (it is easy to empathize with her), she is sadly participating in furthering a very dangerous idea about the dignity of life and so I could not support forwarding her email as it is currently composed. Her points are strong enough without having to make the case that the unborn should be compromised. As sad as it is (her thinking is the same thinking of those who follow her same line of reasoning that only the strongest and healthiest forms of life should survive) that others would argue toward the elimination of the weak amongst us who have diabetes (those whose clumps of cells are predisposed to need insulin and expensive care to survive). I am sure she would not like hearing this, but that untenable and offensive thinking is rooted in the same argument she makes about compromising the unborn for her good. They are already here as well…only not in as strong a position to defend themselves. As people who know that the value of all human life is rooted in the image of the One who created us and not in our utility or strength, we cannot be casual about our stance on this subject.

Bless you and may the Lord allow us to find relief for diabetics in the form of better more affordable treatments soon.

Todd Wagner | pastoraloffice@watermark.org
www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

If you know me at all I don’t like to use the term missionary when I am talking about anything other than a normal believer who is being faithful wherever they are, but if you think of what it must have been like to wade into the African frontier and bring light and hope to the tribes of Western Kenya, I am getting to know some of the saints that did it and some of the new generation who are now continuing to support what is now, as it should be, largely a work done by native Kenyan believers. Every patient and person accompanying a patient is individually loved on and receives care and truth. Over 10,000 treated so far this year and all without government assistance. It is the top hospital in the region and one of the best training schools in Kenya for multiple medical disciplines. Followers of Christ doing what they should as they should in a place so marked by peace and simplicity you envy it. As i said …I will gladly stand back as these friends receive their eternal reward.

Meanwhile, at the conference I am loving and motivated by hundreds of men and women who sit crowded on hard wooden benches for 10 hours a day, soaking in everything we can give them. Teaching on servant leadership, conflict resolution, the problem with tribalism in the church, forgiveness, discipleship, preaching/teaching, reconciliation, role of church in crisis, and forming a nation and more. They take short breaks for tea and worship that would make a dead man dance. My heart is full…especially knowing that all my friends in Dallas are seeking to live as missional lives and taking advantage of their mission field littered with Xboxes, excess, and anything but rolling lush green mountains. May peace, joy, love, and simplicity (you can drop the homemade butter) abound in your home and may you live so faithfully that I can’t wait to stand behind you as I watch the Lord celebrate your faithfulness.

Got word from Rick and Chad today that the first day of their conference in Sudan went well. I look forward to joining them in next 36 hours as I wrap up here. Jumping on a small bird (cessna) off of a valley airstrip with our faithful friends at Mission Aviation Fellowship- more great guys who have chosen to live here solely to transport guys like me to places it would otherwise take hours to drive. They say they are the donkey and we are the Samaritan that seems to love our neighbor. Grateful my donkey has wings and these guys jump in with me in prayer everytime I jump in one of their planes.

Don’t know what your mode of transportation is going to be today but I pray you are the good samaritan and love your neighbor with truth and grace wherever you go.

Privileged and grateful.

I continue to be encouraged at all the humble servants I meet every time I leave Dallas. Many kindred spirits busy getting after it for the Lord’s sake everywhere I go. My prayer is that others always feel the same when they run into members of Watermark. Six guys from an Indiana church showed up who are involved with a child placement agency for Kenyans who want to adopt abandoned children. I started talking with one guy whose daughter is having a rough go of it – in Dallas of all places – and he tells me she teaches at “some school down there.” I ask him what district, and he says she’s teaching 7th and 8th grade in the same school 2 of my kids are at. Crazy. Said he was trying to figure out how to get her connected with the right people as her 4-month marriage has just come crashing to an end. God has His ways. Even if he has to drag guys from Dallas and Indiana to Western Kenya to answer prayer.

I am teaching 4-6 hours the next several days. Should be great fun.

Rick and Chad completed day one in southern Sudan safe and encouraged. Looking forward to joining them later in the week. Pray the Lord gives them favor and creates many divine appointments prior to conference kick-off up there. Sudan is set up for awful tribal racism that will implode their country. Good news is the Church has the chance up there to set the foundation that will bless the nation for generations. Praying we can play whatever role the Lord wants for us faithfully. Pray with us.

Col 4:2-6 NASB
I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument. For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ. Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him.

I received an excellent question yesterday via email that I’d love to share with you. Check out the question, think through how you would answer, and see my response. Chime in/comment here if you have anything to add/further thoughts!

From: Xxxxxx Xxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 08:37:44 -0500
Cc: pastoraloffice
Subject: I’m curious…

Good morning! I was pondering this last night, and wanted to get your thoughts on it… The Jewish leadership’s primary problem when Christ came was a fundamental misunderstanding of scripture regarding the Messiah. They were looking for a conquering King and were, thus, blind to His true identity. Similarly, many people now are on the lookout for Christ’s return, also in the form of a conquering King.

Is it possible that we may also have a fundamental misunderstanding of scripture, and be on the lookout for Christ’s return in a form altogether different than the reality? I know we think we read and interpret scripture correctly, but dogma sometimes seeps in undetected. I just wanted to see what your perspective on that would be… Have a great day!

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 8:49 AM
To: Xxxxxx Xxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: I’m curious…

Xxxxxx….that is a brilliant question and great observation. Here is my response:

Father…help me to walk every day and read Your Scriptures in humility and truth. Don’t let me miss Your will and way in anything. Protect me from my biases, even MY hopes. Fill me with YOUR hope and let me be one that sees with YOUR eyes. Come quickly Lord Jesus, and don’t let me miss You when You do. Until then, let me be Your hands and feet. Fill my mouth with truth and make my life an expression of YOUR love. By Your grace may others see Your Son in me….His grace, His goodness, His courage and His love. I long for the day when You will return as King. As evidence that You are a King may everyone see You reign now in and over me and Your people. Come quickly Lord Jesus, and don’t let me miss You when You do.

Here is my other response:

Matthew 24:4-31. By His grace we have a bit more specific revelation than our friends in Israel did. Even so, I love the question!

Todd Wagner | pastoraloffice@watermark.org
www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

From: Xxxx Xxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:55 PM
To: pastoraloffice
Cc: John Cox; Jonathan Pokluda
Subject: What is a good answer to give baby christians regarding drinking?

Hello Pastor Todd, John, and Jonathon:

I have been asked by several baby christians regarding drinking and since I didn’t have a good biblical answer, I then informed them that I would get back with them once I received an answer from the pastoral office. I was given the following answer from a member and wanted to get your opinion to see if this is ok for me to give to my baby christian friends.

I will appreciate your response.

Thank you so much and many blessings to each and every one.

RESPONSE FROM CHURCH MEMBER:

Please see the below portion of a commentary that we would be in agreement with from www.gotquestions.org It does a good job of articulating the biblical view on Christians and their use of alcohol and the many scriptures that speak on the subject: http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-alcohol.html

Jesus changed water into wine. It even seems that Jesus drank wine on occasion (John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29). In New Testament times, the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was often filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. The same is true in many third-world countries today. As a result, people often drank wine (or grape juice) because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul was instructing Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented (containing alcohol), but not necessarily to the degree it is today. It is incorrect to say that it was grape juice, but it is also incorrect to say that it was the same thing as the wine commonly used today. Again, Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is drunkenness and addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from (Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 6:12).

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 7:55 PM
To: Xxxx Xxxxxx
Cc: John Cox; Jonathan Pokluda
Subject: RE: What is a good answer to give baby christians regarding drinking?

Glad you want to make sure you communicate God’s heart on this topic accurately. GotQuestions.org is a website we refer to and trust….and I think their response is excellent. In addition to the Scripture referenced in their response, I would encourage you to read through Romans 14 and see how that passage stirs your heart. Talk through this with your community group and sharpen each other by searching God’s word together. I typically find that I learn/grow the fastest when I study Scripture with others who know me well.

We don’t have a standard “Watermark policy” on alcohol other than to be aware of the Scriptures teachings and exhortations highlighted in the questions below and in the Got Questions piece. Remember, to compromise (dissipate) your mind with any substance is not God’s best for us (Ephesians 5:18) and therefore prohibited by Scripture…that much is clear. Here are a few questions I would encourage you to use as you share with anyone who asks you about drinking or anytime you are discerning how to honor the King in any activity that the Bible doesn’t explicitly forbid.

• Am I/Will I be mastered by this activity (1 Corinthians 6:12)…aka is this or could this become an addiction that takes the place of God?
• Is it profitable/beneficial (1 Corinthians 6:12)?
• Could it cause other believers to stumble/be confused if they saw me engaging in this activity (1 Corinthians 8:9-13)?
• Does it help me to make disciples/advance the Gospel (Matthew 28:19-20)?
• Am I living under a yoke of legalism that doesn’t honor the Gospel? Am I limiting my freedom in Christ for any reason other than my love for Him or my concern for others (Galatians 5:1)?
• Will participation in this action violate the encouragements found in Ephesians 5:3, Psalm 101, Philippians 4:8, 1 Peter 2:12, 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22, or Romans 14:13-23?
• Does it glorify God (1 Corinthians 10:31)?

Hope that helps …may we all be continually yielded to the Spirit as we honor our Lord as His servants and image bearers.

Todd Wagner | pastoraloffice@watermark.org
www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

As a follow-up/further conversation piece, I thought I would also post an email exchange I had with a new friend in response to that blog. Hopefully this will be able to continually spur others on/continue the great dialogue out there/encourage some of you to read the original and share these truths with others!

From: Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 4:47 PM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: Who is really saved

Pastor Wagner,

I’ve become aware of your ministry through my employer, a member of your congregation who has been awesome in working to shepherd me through a difficult time for my faith. He recommended a recent post of yours “Who Is Really Saved” from your blog. Off that, I watched the related sermon, a few past sermons and read most of the last years worth of your blog posts. Over the weekend I came to really appreciate your bold presentation of God’s word, I also came to appreciate that you’ve selected your views carefully and after study and consideration.

Before I get to my question, a little about me. I was raised LDS and remain nominally active, primarily because I appreciate the positive influence the LDS church is in my wife and children’s lives. I enjoy a casual interest in LDS and more general Christian history and tradition. Unfortunately I’ve almost entirely lost my faith in God, at least in part due to my inability to reconcile faith and reason, but there are a number of other issues that plague the growth of my mustard seed.

My question for you primarily centers on your “Who is Really Saved” post. I noticed that while you reserve judgement on the Christianity of many nominally christian churches, you didn’t extend that to Mormonism. While I definitely appreciate the deep theological divisions Mormonism has with some of the more mainstream Christian sects, the religion still revolves around the belief the Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and only through faith in him can a person be saved, which would seem to be the keystone of any definition of “Christianity”. Where yourself and a Mormon may disagree about the appropriate weight that emphasis on works role in identifying true faith receives, you’ll find no disagreement with them that faith in Jesus is the only way to salvation. That would seem to set it apart from religions like Islam and Judaism, which are explicitly non-christian.

I’m asking solely for my own edification. I’m not as interested in a detail of where you disagree with Mormonism, I’m more interested in where the line is drawn for you on what qualifies as a Christian.

Thanks for your ministry, I’ll continue to enjoy your perspective both in written and spoken form!

- Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:31 PM
To: Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx
Cc: Employer
Subject: RE: Who is really saved

Xxxxx…please forgive my delay in response. I have been out a bit speaking/tending to other commitments and sorry to just getting back to you. Really glad you sent this email and are asking questions….that is how we all learn!

I would love to answer your specific question here, with a hope that we get a chance to visit about your broader faith struggles at a later time. I have copied the co-worker you mentioned here so he can step in and continue to dialogue with you…but for starters on salvation, there are a few past messages that have been done at Watermark that I think answer your question and were included in the blog…but if you want to re-listen, I’ve included the links here:

http://www.watermarkradio.com/index.php?id=153&channel=237&series=162&message=6

http://www.watermarkradio.com/index.php?id=153&channel=237&series=210&message=9

The reason I separated Mormons with other non-Christian beliefs is because although Mormons speak of Jesus, they do not speak of, believe in or follow the biblical Jesus. So while LDS speaks of Jesus….they redefine him, or to say another way, marginalize him in the same way Judaism and Islam speak well of Jesus but reject His claim to deity and His claim that He alone is the means through which fallen humanity can be reconciled to His holiness by grace through faith in His full and complete work on the cross.

A good message for you to watch and talk with your employer about is “Jesus on Jesus”, which you can find here.

Really glad the blog and some of what has been shared at Watermark has encouraged you and I would welcome the chance to say hello in person should you ever get the chance to visit with us at Watermark…if you join us on a Sunday that I am teaching, please stop by the front so that I can shake your hand and greet you.

Love the questions you are asking…stay at it!

Todd Wagner | pastoraloffice@watermark.org
www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

From: Xxxxx Xxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:41 AM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: Sunday’s Service

Dear Pastor Wagner:

Yesterday’s service struck a chord that I can’t seem to shake and I wanted to reach out to you for clarification. Did I understand you correctly when you said Methodists, Baptists, Episcopalians and Catholics aren’t Christians? Is that how you feel? I found it highly offensive that you would say Baptists and Methodists aren’t Christians. I’ve been going to some other denominational churches in town and they are definitely Christians that believe Jesus died to save our sins. This isn’t the first service that you have put down other religions such as Muslims and Jews and I want you to know that I find it a real turn-off when you start bashing other religions. What is the point?? I really felt like Watermark might be different from other churches I’ve attended over the years. I discovered WM through your Divorce Care Ministry. As mentioned, I had been going to another church, but was so impressed by the way DC touched and changed my life in such a short time that I felt like I needed to give WM a real shot and have been attending Sunday service for the last two months. Honestly, I feel like I owe WM my life with the transformation DC did for me. And I really want to find the right church to call home. But I’d really like to know how you feel and if I heard you correctly yesterday.

I appreciate your sincere response.

Thanks,

Xxxxx

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 4:44 PM
To: Xxxxx Xxxxxxx
Cc: Jessica Gober
Subject: RE: Sunday’s Service

Xxxxx…thanks for reaching out and asking. I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt and taking the time to make sure you heard me correctly before you left discouraged or represented to others your understanding (Proverb 18:13). May that humility and wisdom continually mark both of our lives.

Now to your questions. I think you must be referring to my comments about the fact that we have had a long list of presidents (and other governmental leaders) who were “members” of Churches but who have not consistently represented a Christian worldview, and I was making the case that this was because of lack of discipleship, accountability, and leadership both within and from the church. In other words, our problems nationally, governmentally, locally, in our families, and in our individual lives are not that we are or are not Methodists, Baptists, Episcopalians, etc., but rather that too many are professed “Christians” by either affiliation or aspiration but not in practice. You would not hear me say that Methodists/Baptists/Episcopals/Presbyterians/Catholics are/are not Christian any more than you would hear me say that because someone goes to Watermark they are/are not a Christian. Note: I am not diving into or addressing the much more complex issues of denominational dogma and shifting positions because not everyone who attends any given church subscribes to, or even is aware of, official church positions, some of which are thoroughly unbiblical and thus call into question the entire foundation of the denomination…but that is not your question.

To your question about who is and who is not a believer…that is not my position to decide but the Lord’s, so I only want to direct you to Scripture. If you look at Romans 10:9-10 and John 5:24 you will see what it is that defines salvation. There is obviously nothing mentioned in these verses about a denomination or association with anything other than a personal trust and confidence in Jesus. One thing that cannot be missed in Scripture is that belief is never mere intellectual assent or profession. It is about responding in faith, trusting in His provision for your sin and recognizing and following Him as Lord. We don’t “accept” Jesus, we don’t profess Jesus, but we follow Jesus. This is always what belief means in Scripture when related to salvation. There is an eternal difference (and to my point on Sunday, there is tremendous present day consequence) between a said faith and a saving faith. Biblically speaking, heart change always results in life transformation and increasing conformity to Christ. Any exceptions to this, if they even exist, are tragic and filled with both eternal and present life consequence.

To this point, what I wanted to communicate Sunday was that the leaders of many churches have failed to shepherd the flock of God among them and help them understand what true faith, humility, and obedience look like. The result of a compromised pastorate and weakened church has been devastating to us individually and nationally. My job (as both a pastor and follower of Christ) is not to “see through people” (to see who is or who isn’t saved) but rather to “see them through” to greater obedience, joy and faithfulness in their relationship to Christ. If you were in the 11:00 service on Sunday, you may have missed this quote by A.W. Tozer that I shared in the other services. It speaks to the same point:

“Our most pressing obligation today is to do all in our power to obtain a revival that will result in a reformed, revitalized, purified church. It is of far greater importance that we have better Christians than that we have more of them. Each generation of Christians is the seed of the next, and degenerate seed is sure to produce a degenerate harvest not a little better than but a little worse than the seed from which it sprang. Thus the direction will be down until vigorous, effective means are taken to improve the seed….

So vitally important is spiritual quality that it is hardly too much to suggest that attempts to grow larger might well be suspended until we have become better.”

The Set of the Sail by A. W. Tozer, p. 154-156.

Below are some messages I have done in the past on the topic of salvation in general that I think will help further communicate my heart…hope you get the chance to listen and are encouraged:

http://www.watermarkradio.com/index.php?id=153&channel=237&series=162&me
ssage=6

http://www.watermarkradio.com/index.php?id=153&channel=9&series=210&message=9

Finally, you also asked about my thoughts on belief systems that are fundamentally non-Christian. Though I hope that I have never been perceived as “bashing” others who don’t believe the same things as I do, I do not mind being understood as representing what Scripture represents, specifically that there are not multiple paths which lead to the same “mountain top”. There is absolute truth and anything which contradicts this truth is by definition false or untrue. Scripture is clear that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life and that no one comes to the Father except through faith in Him (John 14:6, Acts 4:12). Sadly, this means that those who follow the tenets and beliefs represented in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormonism, Judaism, etc. are separated from God and in need of transformation by grace through faith. This does not mean they are our enemies humanly speaking, but it does mean they are enemies of the gospel whom we should pray for, love, speak truth to, share the hope of Christ with, remind, reprove, and exhort with great patience, kindness and humility. I have many personal friends of all these faiths who are kind, loving, sincere, and moral whom I love deeply and discuss differences freely with gentleness and respect. Sincerity (mine or theirs) never defines reality/truth. Truth defines truth and because I am their friend I pray for them and labor with them that they might come to know the truth that Scripture says will set them free.

What it all boils down to is that, no matter what religious affiliation one may have, if we truly place our trust in and follow Christ, believing He is the only way to have a relationship with God, then we are reconciled to him (Romans 5:1) and it is our role in His Kingdom to lovingly share the hope of the gospel with others in word and deed (1 John 3:16; 2 Corinthians 5:20-21).

Very grateful for the work that He has done in your life through Divorce Care, and I pray that He would increasingly transform you into His likeness. Please let me know if we can be of further service to or if there is anything Watermark’s staff can do to get you further connected here. We would count it no greater joy! I’ve CC’d Jessica Gober here, who I am confident you may know through Divorce Care, so that she can help serve you in any way as well.

Thanks again Xxxxx…hope that is helpful and grateful for the chance to clarify. I look forward to hearing your reply.

Todd Wagner | pastoraloffice@watermark.org
www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

From: xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:01 AM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: I’d like to hear your thoughts…

Hey Todd,

I’d like to hear what you have to say about this since you are a Godly married man seeking after Christ. This past semester in my local ministry our Bible study was over 1 Corinthians. As an unmarried man I have been wrestling with/considering 1 Corinthians 7 (primarily vs 7-9). I certainly know that Paul does not forbid marriage and that there are many benefits of it, spiritual and non-spiritual. What initially caught my attention was that Paul says that he wishes more people were like him (single)…and elsewhere in the book that married men are focused on things of the world whereas single men are focused on the things of the Lord. (Obviously only disciplined and Godly single men are focused on the things of the Lord and being single does not automatically make one focused on the Lord…I also take the statement about married men being focused on things of the world as Godly men being focused on the world only to the extent that is necessary for them to take care of their families…not a sin just a non spiritual necessity).

I believe that Paul talks of marriage and celibacy as different spiritual gifts, that one is not necessarily better than the other. I know that God calls people to different lives and that marriage and singleness are both callings that he equips people for. Perhaps part of the reason I have been wrestling with this passage is because I had not really studied it or heard it preached on in the past. I also feel that most Christians and churches in America do not take singleness seriously because it is counter culture and seeing that might also be why I have been wrestling with it. (Obviously I have not been to most of the churches in America so I can not necessarily make that statement with evidence).

You may have already discerned that the reason for this email is that I am a single man who wants to pursue the Lord and righteousness above all else, who is nearing life decision points in his life, and I have been weighing and evaluating these scriptures and God’s will for my life. I have been dating the same girl since high school. I certainly believe that God has blessed our relationship and that it has often been used to glorify him (and of course we have had our struggles and hard times). My girlfriend has been and become a wonderful, Godly woman who I would be incredibly blessed to be married to. And this has certainly been my (and our) thought for a while.

However, there are a few reasons why I have been searching to see if God has called me to singleness ever since I my 1 Corinthians Bible study. For one, I feel called to work in a demanding/non family friendly and dangerous career. However, my girlfriend has sincerely expressed willingness and desire to go wherever the Lord sends me be it dangerous or not, so that is not that big of a reason anymore. I am concerned about my career as I know I will be a workaholic. This is a blessing and a curse because if God gave me a family I do not want to be an absent father, so I know there would be conflict between being the father that is needed and performing the career I feel called to serve in. I can see how the Lord has equipped me to be single more so than most people I know. For one, I enjoy solitude (though I never consider myself alone, but I enjoy being free of distraction and the world) and I believe that I grow the most spiritually when I am away by myself or my girlfriend and I are away from each other. The biggest reason I have been weighing this is certainly the scriptures. I know that God made marriage and gives it as a blessing. But I feel Paul is also saying that God has made some to be single and it is better for them to be singularly devoted to the Lord. I certainly take scripture as the authoritative message of God and will do (try to do) what it says.

I have talked to my dad about this and he brought up the point that marriage can provide the support and encouragement to better serve the Lord. I agree with him and appreciated that input. I can easily see how the scripture would encourage singleness. So going back to my main point I would like to know what you feel led to share with me on the matter as you are a married man that is serving the Lord. As I have told my girlfriend when discussing this, I do not yet know what God is calling me to in this situation. But I am seeking His will so that I can say/act/live with certainty that I am doing the right thing and that I have carefully considered the scripture and the truth.

I am very sorry for the length and density of this email. I know that ultimately God will guide me according to his will if I seek after him. If anything this has helped me filter my thoughts. I appreciate anything you might have to say. Of course I would appreciate your prayers that God will give me direction and boldness to go where he calls me to and to serve wholeheartedly in all aspects of my life.

From: pastoraloffice
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:17 PM
To: xxxxxx xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: I’d like to hear your thoughts…

Sorry to just now be getting back to you as I have been out of town for a few days. Unsurprisingly I am very encouraged with the way you have been processing this and searching through what God would have in store for you next. Love how have been unpacking 1 Corinthians 7 to see how it applies to you.

A few thoughts…and I’d love for you to share this with your dad and the other guys from your Bible study as they know you/your relationship best and can counsel your situation consistently. For starters, while marriage is a largely important part of most people’s adult lives, we weren’t created to eventually get married…we were created to know Christ and make Him known. We were created to “not be alone”….but that doesn’t require marriage and sadly many married folks don’t pursue oneness with each other or with others in biblical community as Christ intends. Marriage is required for us to biologically “be fruitful and multiply” but we certainly can (and should) do that spiritually as single Christ followers. Check out a message I did many years ago called, “The Complete Single: Oxymoron or Option”.

The first question I would have you ask yourself (which it sounds like you done to some degree) is what circumstances will allow you to do that best? Will marriage be a place where you can partner with another to serve the Lord, understand your own struggles more intimately, and grow in your faith, or will it hinder you from following Christ in any way that He is asking you to do?

Tommy Nelson did a good job with this topic even longer ago when he gave a message titled something like “The Monkey of Marriage and How It Can Grow To Be the Gorilla of Distraction”. He talks about 1 Corinthians 7 and I think I refer to it some in my message. You might enjoy both.

On another note, I would caution you some against giving too much weight to your future job pursuits (while they deserve some consideration and certainly are something you should be communicating with your girlfriend about). I would encourage you to live fully in light of today instead of making decisions based on an uncertain future. I am fully confident that you can achieve these high goals that you have set for yourself, but only God knows exactly what our future is (James 4:13-15). He will take care of you and your hopes and dreams whether you are married or single….keep seeking him like you have so far, with ALL your heart soul and mind and marriage/career/future will be a joy. I would also encourage you to think through your implication (resignation?) to be a “workaholic”. You know God is glorified when we work hard in all we do (Colossians 3:23, 1 Corinthians 10:31), but that doesn’t have to look like a role that puts you in a position to trump family and your relationship with Him. Our first calling is to be a follower of Christ, and if we are married, our second calling is to care for our spouse…I would never counsel anyone to decide early on in life that they would put themselves in a job function that elevates the day-to-day of that ahead of either of the things above. I understand your concern about bringing a family into the jobs you want to pursue, and that is valid as those industries need devoted followers of Christ ministering/serving in them…but above all set yourself up for success in a vocation that gives you room to abide with Him….and to Paul’s point, single soldiers (2 Timothy 2:3-4/1 Corinthians 7) have less homeland concerns so they can be less distracted/encumbered/responsible for/concerned by/obligated to other things than the war at hand. BUT…don’t underestimate marriage as a gift from God….for more than kids or sex. It is a great place to learn things that can only be learned in the furnace of trial and commitment. Luther once said, “l learned more about spirituality and surrender in marriage than I ever did in the monastery”. Frances de Sales (17th century Christian writer) replied to a young woman asking him what he thought about her friend’s advice that she should not get married because it was “more holy” to remain single, care for her father and to devote herself as celibate to God by saying, “The state of marriage is one that requires more virtue and constancy than any other. It is a perpetual exercise of mortification…from this thyme plant, in spite of the bitter nature of its juice, you may be able to draw and make the honey of a holy life.”

So not only have you not sinned if you marry….you are set up to be sanctified in great ways if you stay committed to your commitment.

As you know, marriage has been a blessing to me as it has grown me in ways nothing else has (worldly speaking) and certainly given me the blessing and encouragement of my kids as well…whether you choose to pursue marriage, to remain single for a time, or to remain single for your time on earth, your #1 priority is your relationship with the Lord.

Bottom line…be faithful where you are. Whether married or single. Be a faithful student of the word, friend, son, boyfriend, and servant. Honor your girlfriend in dating by continuing to pursue her as long as with her, and by guarding her heart if you feel led to step away from that relationship. Given that y’all have been together as long as you have been….it is getting REALLY close to the time to release her to pursue others who have the desire to enter into a covenantal relationship or let her know you are pursuing that with her. It is not as if y’all need to get to know each other better…and keeping her around in case you do want to get married someday is not exactly putting her interests ahead of your own. Be free….but be considerate and willing to live with your indecision or decision;that is what Godly men do. Philippians 2:3-5.

Praying for you…may you be devoted to Christ and center all of your relationship around Him. May He bless you as you serve Him as a single man today. I am proud of you and rejoice with you at God’s kindness in your life. This email back is not complete….use it to get the conversation going with your guys/Dad/Lord…don’t use it as dogma.

Romans 14:22,

Todd Wagner | pastoraloffice@watermark.org
www.twitter.com/wordsfromwags
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

If you are a member of Watermark and need help connecting with others this way….contact Dana Douthit at ddouthit@watermark.org.

Meanwhile….Read it through, pass it on and live it out!

Dear XXXXXXX,

Thank you for completing your 2011 4B and for your desire to stay connected with us at Watermark. We are writing to let you know that our records indicate that you are currently not in a community group. We realize that our records could be wrong or there could be a misunderstanding about what we define as a Watermark community group. A Watermark community group consists of yourself and a minimum of at least two others, with at least one being a member of Watermark. Because the nature of this letter is about your membership and community, we want to let you know why this is so important to us.

As your church leaders, our Elders are continually challenged by Hebrews 13:17 “Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.”

The privilege and trust given to us to lead His flock is one we take very seriously (Acts 20:28). All members (elders and staff included) have chosen to make the body of Christ at Watermark the place where we find community, accountability and encouragement. The first line of care always comes from other members closest and committed to you. Watermark has a direct touch with every member through the almost 1000 community group leaders we regularly meet with, train, encourage and serve. Each leader provides constant care and attention for everyone in his or her group. If someone is struggling or needs assistance beyond the group’s ability, every leader has direct access to a staff member who has access to every spiritual and physical resource in the church. In this way, every active member of Watermark has accountability that tracks throughout the church, directly to the elders.

This is consistent with the model provided for us in scripture (Exodus 18) and because of its importance, we supply significant resources and staff to assist our body so they can pursue and prosper in these life-giving relationships.

We have seen again and again that the single most important step a person can take for radical life transformation is to be committed to authentic, biblical community. The commitment to biblical community that is shepherded by trained and accountable leadership produces growth. That growth pushes you towards a deeper understanding and desire to be transformed in the image of Christ.

Because we believe firmly in the importance of the biblical call for God’s people to live in community, after six months we make members inactive who are not in a group of three or more people (with at least one other person being a Watermark member). As your church leadership, we would not be loving or leading you well if we allow individuals who remain isolated from relationships with other members of our body to believe that they are being cared for and shepherded as Christ intends.

Please let us know if you believe we have not served you well in your effort to connect, you need help connecting or if you have chosen to find God’s provision for community at another church. If we do not hear from you on where you are in the process of finding a community group or how we can help care for you, we will not be able to take responsibility of your care before Christ. Therefore we will move you to “inactive” as a member. We understand that it takes time to find a group, but we also want to be faithful shepherds of our members and call you to all that scripture calls you to. If there are any extenuating circumstances that we need to be aware of please let us know.

Right now, we would like to know if you:
1.) Have found a community group and we don’t have that accurately reflected in our records
2.) Would like to share with us how you are living in obedience to scripture related to this area
3.) Plan on attending group link or have a personal strategy in place to find community
4.) Do not wish to join a community group at this time.

We look forward to serving you and hearing from you soon, and are praying that you would avail yourself to all that Christ intends. For some great reminders on the importance of community and the heart behind this communication, please see:

THIS IS THE LIFE Part 1
THIS IS THE LIFE Part 2
Connected to Others
Gifts I’d give my children 2007

Four fools on a stool Part 1
Four fools on a stool Part 2

Hebrews 3:13,

The Community Team

With technology today, one way I frequently interface with Watermark members and guests is through email. I typically get some excellent and thoughtful questions that I welcome the opportunity to respond to. These questions are great teaching moments for not only for myself and those who are asking, but also for anyone else who may have similar inqueries. From time-to-time I would love to leverage this blog in an endeavor to make those emails public and spark more conversation around them.

To kick this off, below is an email I recently received from Jason asking why we don’t have crosses on stage. Read below for his original question and my response back to him.

From: Jason
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:53 PM
To: pastoraloffice
Subject: Cross?

Quick question…Why is there no cross on the stage?

Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:34 PM
From: Todd Wagner (pastoraloffice@watermark.org)
To: Jason
Subject: Re: Cross?

Jason…glad you asked. While we don’t have any objections to crosses being on stage (that is evident if you were with us on Easter…if you weren’t, check out this video: http://www.watermarkradio.com/index.php?id=153&channel=237&series=219&message=0), most of the time however, our set up does not typically include a cross on stage. The same is obviously true for the outside of our building but we earnestly pray it is never true in regard to the the testimony of our lives.

While a cross is an excellent reminder of Christ’s atoning death for us and our subsequent justification and death to sin, we also believe having a cross on our bodies or our building is not necessarily the best way to display our love for it or the Christ Who hung on it. I think you will agree that there are many who culturally wear a cross around their necks without having any understanding of its implication and also sadly agree that there are too many buildings with crosses on top of them that are full of leaders, followers and doctrines that do anything but reflect its glory.

As you know, Jesus says they will know we are His disciples by the way we LOVE one another, not by the way we decorate our stages, buildings or wardrobes. (John 13:34-35)

Bottom line, we have no objection to a cross being displayed anywhere in or on our building or bodies but we do pray that we have an increasing obsession to live our lives in such a way that others see us “pick up our cross daily and follow Jesus.”

Hope that helps Jason…I’m not sure if you are fully connected with us at Watermark, but would love to help you take steps towards doing so if you would desire that. Glad you reached out and hope you are out representing Christ by the way you lead, love, and serve today!

Todd Wagner | pastoraloffice@watermark.org
Watermark Community Church
www.watermark.org
214.239.8809

Does the Bible Matter In the 21st Century?

By Vishal Mangalwadi

Published April 13, 2011

FoxNews.com AP

In his quest to change oppressive regimes in Afghanistan, President George W. Bush “Everyone desires freedom.” True. Everyone also desires a happy marriage can everyone therefore have one?

Afghanistan, Iraq, Ivory Coast ought to teach secular ideologues that freedom does not flow from the barrel of a gun. Nor does it flourish in every culture.

Why do most American presidents place a hand on the Bible to take the oath of office? Secular education has made that a meaningless tradition, but the tradition exists because the Bible is the secret of America’s freedom. Forget the Bible and America will go the way of the first Protestant nation – Nazi Germany.

Plato saw Greek democracy first hand and condemned it as the worst of all political systems. That’s why the spread of the Greek culture, called “Hellenization,” did not stir a struggle for democracy. In AD 798, the English scholar Alcuin summed up the then European wisdom to Emperor Charlemagne: “And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness.” Indeed, the voice of a corrupt people is often the devil’s voice.

The cancer at the heart of America’s political economy is cultural. This great nation was built by an ethic – a spirituality that taught citizens to work, earn, save, invest, and use their wealth to serve their neighbors. This biblical ethic has been replaced by secularism’s entitlement culture that teaches people that they have a right to this, that and the other without corresponding obligations to work, save, and serve. This new culture forces the state to take from productive citizens or borrow from other nations and spend it on man-made rights. This corruption of character is destroying the world’s greatest economy, but can democracy allow leaders to go against the voters’ voice?

The people’s voice began to be honored as God’s voice only because the sixteenth century biblical Reformation began saturating the hearts and minds of the people with the Word of God. Those who prayed, “Your kingdom come, your will be done in Scotland (or England, or Holland)” found the grace to free themselves from the tyranny of men. Not just Islamic, but every culture that rejects the kingdom of God condemns itself to be ruled exclusively by sinful men.

Almost everyone desires a happy marriage, but without the Bible, America cannot even define, let alone sustain marriage as one man–one woman, exclusive, and life-long relationship. The West became great because biblical monogamy harnessed sexual energy to build strong families, women, children, and men. 

Human history knows no force other than the Bible that has the capacity to dam sexual energy to build powerful families and nations. Indeed, no non-biblical culture has ever been able to require husbands to “love your wives” and give them the spiritual resources to do so.

Vishal Mangalwadi is the author of “The Book That Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization.” (Thomas Nelson)

For all readers, below are some brief thoughts laid out for you.  From our perspective, the question is not, “Should Watermark ever have/continue to build facilities?”, but, “Is everything this church has being used to maximize the glory of God?”  This is always the question.  Paul tells us, “…whatever you do, do all to the glory of God” (1 Corinthians 10:33b).  What you do is often not nearly as important as why you do it.  I can’t think of anything that would offend God if you did them in faith because you have purposed to reflect on and respond to His world in yieldedness to His Spirit and for the purpose of loving Him/loving others.

Questions about buildings are not primary questions. Whether or not to build/expand is only asked as a strategy question related to the best way to serve God and love others given our current circumstance.  As we have continually asked the Lord to lead us and how to best steward our property, we have never received any answer that involved selling our property/land, nor have we ever felt like the thing Christ would have us do is stop maximizing the use of our property.  

We don’t believe that buildings are an accurate way to judge success, and likewise, we don’t think the fact that we have buildings/are willing to put more buildings on our campus means we are out of touch with the Spirit.  The Spirit is not as concerned about physical buildings as He is about spiritual buildings.  Today, His Spirit dwells in His people, not in buildings.  If spiritual people use physical materials to serve, equip, help, and reach others, then those physical structures are a source of spiritual good.  If the physical building is used for any other purpose, no matter how beautiful it is, then it is a distraction more than a dwelling place for God.

We are neither for nor against buildings.  We are for the Spirit transforming us into servant leaders who increasingly walk in the fullness of God’s intention for us.  We measure our success not by our prosperity or our poverty, but rather by our purposeful, radical surrender to Him.  We want to measure our success by our ability to be and make disciples…living stones being built up to a spiritual house, as a holy priesthood, using physical stones when appropriate to make physical buildings useful for eternal things.

One analogy I have used before (see again 3/28/2010 message) is that of a medical school. Hopefully everyone would agree that we as believers should care for one another. Similarly, when people are sick, we employ physicians to nourish those people back to health to the best of their ability.  We love the idea of training people to be “doctors” that are equipped to help others in crisis.  A necessity in equipping our “doctors” well is building “medical schools” where they can be trained.  
 
We agree that it would be wrong for a school to build as many buildings as it could just so it could have bragging rights as the biggest medical school in the country.  However, enlarging the campus of a medical school would be right if the school were being used to unleash hundreds, if not thousands, of doctors whose skills and knowledge of how our bodies function could be continually honed to train other doctors, and therefore bring physical comfort and health to others.

Our hope is that the facilities on Watermark’s campus will be maximized with men and women who are both filled with and yielded to the Spirit.  In turn, even more men and women can be trained, not just to minister to people’s medical needs, but to be faithful in ministering to people’s hearts as well.  This is a training campus; we are equipping the saints for the work of the service (Ephesians 4:11-13). We pray that God would keep showing us what He would flip in our lives to make us more useful to Him, and that as we would continue to love each other, speaking the truth in love (Ephesians 4:24), we would increasingly be temples/buildings that He is pleased with.  Praying with you and looking for more encouraging conversations in the days ahead.

None of the cards that I have read from last week mentioned the building being something Christ may “take on” if He came into our midst, but since I told you I would reflect on why we believe building is right for us now, I wanted to get this post up before the week was out.  I may have fun with several of the answers we did receive in the days ahead, but for now, suffice it to say there was nothing overwhelming mentioned by anyone as obviously out of sync with God’s desire for us.  I am sure there are thousands of little choices we make every day that need radical attention, and I am committed with you to get to listen more attentively every day.

Father, we ask for You to keep coming in, speaking up, turning tables, and moving us toward your intended purposes for our lives.

Psalm 139:23-24,

Todd

Todd

A friend just sent me a link from Piper…His response is below and it looks like we have shared many of the same things…my point #9 which is soon to be posted, talks about why I am glad some Christ followers are led to pursue lifelong academic disciplines…and it is similar in heart to Piper’s comments about Don Carson. 

Here is the link   http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/2414_should_pastors_get_phds/ and here is his answer to the question “Having been through PhD studies, would you recommend other pastors pursue this course of education?” 

You mean, already-pastoring pastors or planning-to-be pastors? I’ll answer both.

If you’re already a pastor, I wouldn’t get a PhD. It’s a lot of work, and the payoff is really small. Really small.

When I say really small, I don’t mean studying the Bible is small payoff. But the way most PhD programs are set up it is small payoff. Because you have to read so much junk in order to get your PhD. You have to become an expert in what other people are saying, most of which is wrong.

Most of the stuff that is written in the world isn’t true. And a PhD has to be an expert. And so you have to read gobs and gobs of stuff that is unhelpful.

Now I think somebody should do that. I’m glad there’s a Don Carson who seems to read everything under the sun, and therefore has the capacity to respond helpfully.

I’m totally committed that there needs to be a layer of academic scholarship that is aware of what’s out there and is teaching and writing. So, yes and amen.

That’s not what the pastorate is, though. The pastorate is not mainly the place where you have to know every wrong thing that’s being said about some slice of biblical theology. The pastorate is a shepherding of people from the Word.

So now back to saying something positive: if a PhD program is set up—and there are some!—to really let you work on the Bible for three or four years and on understanding its larger implications for life and reality, then, on your way towards the pastorate, that could be gold.

But mine wasn’t set up that way. And when I was done with those three years I had a piece of paper, the German language, and an appreciation for academic theology; but I had not grown much at all, except what I got on my own.

So it is possible to do stupid PhDs for the piece of paper. I would much rather you do a wise PhD—that is, go to a place where they really let you study the Bible mainly. Yes, you’ve gotta read other stuff. But you want to come out of there with three years’ worth with a big, large, strong, robust, deep grasp of God and his ways in the world, not just a little tiny slice of what a thousand wrong people are saying about some teeny verse in the Bible. That’s just a sad use of three years.

And if you’re a pastor, set yourself to study the Bible and take courses. But don’t worry about a degree for goodness’ sake.

I’ve not even opened the tube in which my diploma exists since 1974! I haven’t opened it! It’s in the drawer. Nobody asks about it. It doesn’t mean anything anymore. (Maybe that’s an overstatement.)