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		<title>Cultivating good theology</title>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Reformed Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Scripture]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[catechism]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[sola scriptura]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Westminster Confession]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://undeception.com/?p=1635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Daniel Kirk at Storied Theology has a great post up in which he&#8217;s critical of an article in the current Christianity Today theme this month by J. I. Packer and Gary A. Parrett in praise of catechism.
Now I must say, since we&#8217;re attending a Presbyterian church now (I&#8217;m actually serious), my kids have recently been learning the [...]


Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://undeception.com/my-love-affair-with-theology/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: My love affair with&nbsp;theology'>My love affair with&nbsp;theology</a> <small>I haven’t been posting much lately. To explain why, allow me give you a sketch of my relationship with theology, which has always formed the backbone of this site. First,...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/in-luthers-footsteps/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: In Luther&#8217;s&nbsp;footsteps'>In Luther&#8217;s&nbsp;footsteps</a> <small>Last Sunday night, our church hosted a Reformation Party for the kids. It was sort of a Halloweenish deal, with lots of games and candy, and the kids were encouraged...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/gods-providence-in-my-theology/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: The place of God&#8217;s providence in my&nbsp;theology'>The place of God&#8217;s providence in my&nbsp;theology</a> <small>I have been musing lately about how my stance on the creation/evolution controversy would impact other areas of theology if applied consistently. The stance I&#8217;m referring to is my conviction...</small></li>
</ol>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel Kirk at <a href="http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375">Storied Theology</a> has a great post up in which he&#8217;s critical of an article in the current <a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/">Christianity Today</a><span> theme this month by J. I. Packer and Gary A. <span>Parrett</span> in praise of catechism.</span></p>
<p>Now I must say, since we&#8217;re attending a Presbyterian church now (I&#8217;m actually serious), my kids have recently been learning the children&#8217;s version of the Westminster Shorter Catechism for Sunday School. While I&#8217;ll certainly need to start shaking loose some of the stuff I have problems with in the WCF before it hardens permanently in their minds, it&#8217;s both a good exercise for their brains and a way of learning historical Protestant theology. What I&#8217;m just saying is that although I certainly have a problem with overly and artificially systematized theology, I&#8217;m not really necessarily anti-catechism.</p>
<p>But I also must say, the following remarks from Daniel Kirk are spot on:</p>
<blockquote><p><span>I could not disagree more with the claims being asserted [in the article by Packer and <span>Parrett</span>]: that the real thing we need is theology, and all those stories in the Bible (you know, the actual Bible God, in God’s wisdom, decided to give to the church) are second-rate tools the learning of which makes us less competent Christians.</span></p>
<p><span>This is the classic inversion of <span>sola</span> <span>scriptura</span>: no longer do we really want you to do what the Reformers did (read your Bible), we want you instead to read and memorize what they said after they had read their Bibles.</span></p></blockquote>
<p><span>Wow. That last sentence was a home run, with bases loaded. What do you think the Hebrews did before they had a Calvin or a <span>Beza</span>?  Do we really want to take the ancient Jewish commentaries as seriously as we&#8217;re to take, e.g., the Westminster Confession of Faith? Why the heck would the Bible come loaded with stories of people encountering God, often coming away with differing ideas about what they learned about Him, and very little that even resembles systematic theology? Couldn&#8217;t God have provided an inspired, inerrant commentary or hermeneutic key if He really wanted to?</span></p>
<p>Certainly we should teach our kids our beliefs about what the authors of the Bible believed; it can even take the form of a catechism. But whatever we do, we don&#8217;t want to give them the impression that we are teaching them unquestionable Approved and Authorized Theology<sup>®</sup>. We should be instructing and encouraging them that good theology isn&#8217;t learned by rote, but painstakingly cultivated.</p>
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<p>Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://undeception.com/my-love-affair-with-theology/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: My love affair with&nbsp;theology'>My love affair with&nbsp;theology</a> <small>I haven’t been posting much lately. To explain why, allow me give you a sketch of my relationship with theology, which has always formed the backbone of this site. First,...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/in-luthers-footsteps/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: In Luther&#8217;s&nbsp;footsteps'>In Luther&#8217;s&nbsp;footsteps</a> <small>Last Sunday night, our church hosted a Reformation Party for the kids. It was sort of a Halloweenish deal, with lots of games and candy, and the kids were encouraged...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/gods-providence-in-my-theology/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: The place of God&#8217;s providence in my&nbsp;theology'>The place of God&#8217;s providence in my&nbsp;theology</a> <small>I have been musing lately about how my stance on the creation/evolution controversy would impact other areas of theology if applied consistently. The stance I&#8217;m referring to is my conviction...</small></li>
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		<title>The Bible’s text has a history</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Undeception/~3/NiM1C8yquvw/</link>
		<comments>http://undeception.com/the-bibles-text-has-a-history/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Biblical studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Scripture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bart Ehrman]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bibliology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dan Wallace]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evangelicalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Inerrancy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[James White]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://undeception.com/?p=1468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Recently I mentioned to some friends the fact that Mark 16.9-20 should not be used as a proof text for anything given the near certainty that it was a later addition to Mark. One close friend responded that he&#8217;d give the benefit of the doubt to that passage under the professed belief that the Church has been using it for [...]


Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://undeception.com/the-bible-and-the-need-for-proof/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: The Bible and the need for&nbsp;proof'>The Bible and the need for&nbsp;proof</a> <small>In his latest post, Mike mentions a Facebook conversation with someone puzzled by his rejection of inerrancy; I was involved with the conversation as well. As Mike described, this individual...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/history-and-faith/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: History and&nbsp;faith'>History and&nbsp;faith</a> <small>A commenter on the previous post raised an interesting point that leads me into something I&#8217;ve been wanting to explore here. He wrote: I don’t see why it would be logically...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/thinking-outside-the-box-about-the-bible/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Thinking &#8220;Outside the Box&#8221; about the&nbsp;Bible'>Thinking &#8220;Outside the Box&#8221; about the&nbsp;Bible</a> <small>My friend Cliff Martin has written one of the best, most concise descriptions of the nature and purpose of the Bible that I have ever had the privilege of reading....</small></li>
</ol>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently I mentioned to some friends the fact that <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Mark+16.9-20&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Mark 16.9-20" target="_new">Mark 16.9-20</a> should not be used as a proof text for anything given the near certainty that it was a later addition to Mark. One close friend responded that he&#8217;d give the benefit of the doubt to that passage under the professed belief that the Church has been using it for two millennia. I responded that this particular passage was not even explictly affirmed as canonical until Trent, which took place after our own tradition of Protestantism had rejected other of the Church&#8217;s more central beliefs that also go back to antiquity.</p>
<p>Even conservative Christian apologist James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, who has debated Bart Ehrman on the subject of the Bible&#8217;s reliability vis-à-vis text-critical issues, made this important observation on Unbelieveable (<a href="http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unbelievable/id267142101#">3/6/2010</a>):</p>
<blockquote><p>Most Christians tend to think the Bible floated down out of heaven in a calfskin cover with gold edges and thumb, replete the first time it appeared. That&#8217;s not how it came to us. That&#8217;s not how it&#8217;s been transmitted to us&#8230;Any book that has come to us from antiquity has a history to it.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;and a little later,</p>
<blockquote><p>The books of the New Testament had a life of their own before they became collected into one edition.</p></blockquote>
<p>Now, my friend <em>knows</em> all this in his head, but in practice, most of us tend to trust whatever our editions of the Bible lay before us and default to a distrust of any further revision to them. But there&#8217;s a justified collective facepalm among these same Christians when that very tendency results in KJV-onlyism. The fact is, unless you&#8217;ve got a KJV, you&#8217;re probably reading a text that <em>significantly</em> depends on the discipline of textual criticism from the last couple centuries, scholarship that has virtually rendered unanimous judgment against <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Mark+16.9-20&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Mark 16.9-20" target="_new">Mark 16.9-20</a>&#8217;s status as original to that Gospel (although many conservatives propose the credulity-straining caveat that this passage was an accurate historical document itself that just got tacked on to Mark in later centuries).</p>
<p>None of this is a secret among those who pay attention to respected evangelical scholars like <a href="http://friendsofcsntm.com/index.php">Dan Wallace</a>, but given White&#8217;s quoted remarks, it bears pointing out to a wider audience. Even &#8220;inerrant in the original manuscripts&#8221; is only of value if we have a reasonable assurance that what we&#8217;ve got is representative of original manuscripts, and we do that by coming to grips with scholarship on textual criticism.</p>
<p>I think every church should have a Sunday School class that discusses (perhaps among other things) textual criticism. I&#8217;m sure it would be geared in most churches to demonstrating the &#8220;reliability&#8221; of Scripture based upon the consistency of the bulk of the texts, as White and Wallace are very much interested to affirm, but at very least it would scale back misconceptions and emphasize the need for a little humility in our assumptions about the text.</p>
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<li><a href='http://undeception.com/history-and-faith/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: History and&nbsp;faith'>History and&nbsp;faith</a> <small>A commenter on the previous post raised an interesting point that leads me into something I&#8217;ve been wanting to explore here. He wrote: I don’t see why it would be logically...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/thinking-outside-the-box-about-the-bible/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Thinking &#8220;Outside the Box&#8221; about the&nbsp;Bible'>Thinking &#8220;Outside the Box&#8221; about the&nbsp;Bible</a> <small>My friend Cliff Martin has written one of the best, most concise descriptions of the nature and purpose of the Bible that I have ever had the privilege of reading....</small></li>
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		<title>Creationism, education, and the state</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Undeception/~3/rqY8vrTGFbg/</link>
		<comments>http://undeception.com/creationism-education-and-the-state/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 19:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Homeschooling]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Science]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[creationism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[education]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evangelicalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evolution]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fundamentalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[intelligent design]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://undeception.com/?p=1622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All right, here&#8217;s a rant for you.
There&#8217;s a news story circulating about the well-known fact that homeschooling texts are ignoring or even (the audacity!) criticizing mainstream science in favor of creationism. The usual suspects have emerged to show their disgust of the benighted institution of homeschooling. There&#8217;s a poll up at MSNBC asking the question, [...]


Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://undeception.com/why-the-debate-over-creationism-matters/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Why the debate over creationism&nbsp;matters'>Why the debate over creationism&nbsp;matters</a> <small>Recently I have been involved in a couple conversations with folks who aren&#8217;t really &#8220;informed&#8221; (I use the term loosely) creationists but have been hounded enough by creationists/biblical literalists who...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/homeschooling-and-agendas/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Homeschooling and&nbsp;agendas'>Homeschooling and&nbsp;agendas</a> <small>There is no bigger proponent of home education than yours truly. I myself was homeschooled from the fifth grade through graduation. Although a somewhat shy, awkward kid, I somehow turned...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/florida-science-standards-dethrone-god-details-at-11/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Florida science standards dethrone God! Details at&nbsp;11'>Florida science standards dethrone God! Details at&nbsp;11</a> <small>Talk about a love/hate relationship&#8230; I highly commend Gary Demar of American Vision for a number of reasons. Chiefly, he is on the front lines in arguing against the immobilizing...</small></li>
</ol>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All right, here&#8217;s a rant for you.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,588260,00.html" target="_blank">news story</a> circulating about the well-known fact that homeschooling texts are ignoring or even (the audacity!) criticizing mainstream science in favor of creationism. <a href="http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/evolution-and-home-schooling-redux/" target="_blank">The usual suspects</a> have emerged to show their disgust of the benighted institution of homeschooling. There&#8217;s a poll up at <a href="http://msnbc.newsvine.com/_question/2010/03/06/3986804-is-it-ok-for-home-school-textbooks-to-dismiss-the-theory-of-evolution">MSNBC</a> asking the question, &#8220;Is it OK for home-school textbooks to dismiss the theory of evolution?&#8221; Wait, what does &#8220;OK&#8221; mean here? Are they asking, &#8220;Do you think it&#8217;s good that home-school textbooks do this?&#8221; or &#8220;Is it healthy for society that they do this?&#8221; The ambiguity in the question itself implies that what they really want to know is, &#8220;Should the authorities allow parents to teach their kids this stuff?&#8221; The mantra among most secularists that I&#8217;ve heard on this issue is that homeschooling should be, preferably, illegal or, at very least, strictly regulated for content by the state. Thus, the following rant.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll not find a stauncher advocate of teaching mainstream <a href="http://undeception.com/homeschooling-and-agendas/">science in homeschool curricula</a> than me, nor anyone who is more disturbed that homeschooling is usually used as a shelter from science education. But parents indubitably have <strong>more</strong> of a right to teach their children creationism than the state has to teach its belief systems. And don&#8217;t try to tell me that public education is not teaching belief systems: no one has the absolute truth, so whether it&#8217;s parent-approved, community-approved, or state-approved, there are beliefs and value judgments about what the truth is, some of them surely quite accurate, that are being taught. Claiming a monopoly on truth enforceable against other people&#8217;s children is nothing short of intellectual fascism, the rule of the thought police instituted by those who <em>think better</em> than the ignorant masses. But until the state assumes the role of deciding whether or not people can produce their own offspring and raise them from birth and as long as no ideologies are being taught that directly advocate violence or other tangible abuse, education must also be left in the hands of the parents. At least homeschoolers aren&#8217;t using taxpayer dollars to teach their agendas.</p>
<p>Homeschool critics often compare teaching creationism to teaching 2+2=5; I happen to think they&#8217;re not so far off. But this doesn&#8217;t mean the state has a right to stick its Cyrano de Bergerac into things. Most of the homeschooled, like me, will eventually learn better (and more&#8217;s the pity for them if their faith is tied to creationism), but even if they don&#8217;t, life will somehow go on. It really will.</p>
<p>Maybe one day everyone will accept mainstream science and reject creationism. No doubt by that time some subgroup or other will reject some other commonly accepted truth for some reason; it&#8217;s only human to do so (so evolution tells us). But I refuse to accept that our ruling intelligentsia should manage society like some intellectual Gestapo by the bully force of the government. Maybe we should just do our best for those over whom we have influence. Maybe we should trust that the truly better ideas will win the day. And maybe, in the meantime, we should learn to exercise a little patience with those who don&#8217;t understand as much as we think we do now.</p>
<p>Nah&#8230;that sounds a little too <em>Christian</em>.</p>
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<p>Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://undeception.com/why-the-debate-over-creationism-matters/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Why the debate over creationism&nbsp;matters'>Why the debate over creationism&nbsp;matters</a> <small>Recently I have been involved in a couple conversations with folks who aren&#8217;t really &#8220;informed&#8221; (I use the term loosely) creationists but have been hounded enough by creationists/biblical literalists who...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/homeschooling-and-agendas/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Homeschooling and&nbsp;agendas'>Homeschooling and&nbsp;agendas</a> <small>There is no bigger proponent of home education than yours truly. I myself was homeschooled from the fifth grade through graduation. Although a somewhat shy, awkward kid, I somehow turned...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/florida-science-standards-dethrone-god-details-at-11/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Florida science standards dethrone God! Details at&nbsp;11'>Florida science standards dethrone God! Details at&nbsp;11</a> <small>Talk about a love/hate relationship&#8230; I highly commend Gary Demar of American Vision for a number of reasons. Chiefly, he is on the front lines in arguing against the immobilizing...</small></li>
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		<title>More on what NT faith is about</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Undeception/~3/8Kw5YgRcwrY/</link>
		<comments>http://undeception.com/more-on-what-nt-faith-is-about/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[New Perspective on Paul]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faithfulness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NPP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paul]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pauline theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pistis]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Reformed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[social concern]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://undeception.com/?p=1587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Under the typical Protestant understanding of “faith” as “not doubting something that one believes without proof”, I as a young Protestant could never fathom why God would be so tickled by us believing in what we had almost no evidence for. This question came home to me most clearly whenever I heard informal apologetics arguing [...]


Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://undeception.com/pistis-iesou-christou/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: An (ancient) introduction to &#8220;faith in Christ&#8221; vs. &#8220;Christ&#8217;s&nbsp;faith&#8221;'>An (ancient) introduction to &#8220;faith in Christ&#8221; vs. &#8220;Christ&#8217;s&nbsp;faith&#8221;</a> <small>Originally inspired by this recent post by Doug Chaplin, I exhumed a paper I wrote in third year Greek while an undergrad (I estimate this to be c. 2000-2001). As...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/defining-faith-in-hebrews-11-1/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Defining faith in Hebrews&nbsp;11.1'>Defining faith in Hebrews&nbsp;11.1</a> <small>I have always thought that Hebrews 11.1 sounded beautiful, with a mystical air to it: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen....</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/campbell-what-did-paul-mean-by-justified/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Campbell: what did Paul mean by&nbsp;&#8220;justified&#8221;?'>Campbell: what did Paul mean by&nbsp;&#8220;justified&#8221;?</a> <small>Here&#8217;s an excerpt from the first part of a review of a book I&#8217;ve been interested in since I first heard about it. It&#8217;s from the New Perspective school of...</small></li>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Under the typical Protestant understanding of “faith” as “not doubting something that one believes without proof”, I as a young Protestant could never fathom why God would be so tickled by us believing in what we had almost no evidence for. This question came home to me most clearly whenever I heard informal apologetics arguing that the reason God doesn&#8217;t just show Himself to us is that if He did, no faith would be necessary, and God really wants us to have faith. Obviously this is quite circular, akin to being asked, “Why do we have to have faith?” and answering, “Because faith is necessary.”</p>
<p>So when I found out in third-year Greek (undergrad) about a related discussion that had been going on in scholarly academic circles, I was intrigued. The main question was about the Pauline expression <em>ek/dia</em> <em>pisteos iesou christou</em> (e.g. <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Philippians+3.9&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Philippians 3.9" target="_new">Philippians 3.9</a>), customarily, but probably inaccurately, translated as “faith in Jesus Christ”, whereas scholars such as Richard Hayes have argued for the reading “faith(fulness) of Jesus Christ”; I just posted <a href="http://undeception.com/pistis-iesou-christou/">my exploratory paper</a> on this topic yesterday. As I described <a href="http://undeception.com/defining-faith-in-hebrews-11-1/" target="_blank">in another recent post</a>, the Greek word that we translate as “faith” also carried the meaning <em>faithfulness</em> (notice that English uses the root “faith-” in both “faith” and “faithfulness” as well). In fact, there is no other word in NT Greek that translates as “faithfulness” as directly as <em>pistis</em>. So theoretically, whether Paul had meant to describe a concept more on the “faithfulness” side or on the “belief” side of <em>pistis</em>, or some hybrid of both “belief” and “faithfulness, he would have in all likelihood used the word <em>pistis</em> in any case. “Belief” and “faithfulness” are two very different English words and markedly different conceptually in our modern understanding, but the fact that the NT often uses them in their divergent semantics in places where the meaning is ambiguous suggests that <em>pistis</em> meant not either/or but indicated a concept closely related to both of them. After all, <em>belief</em> is in a sense a commitment to an idea, and I recognize this usage for “faith” and “believing” (Gk <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">pist</span>-euo</em>) in the NT as well.</p>
<p>But rather than mere cognitive assent to an unproved proposition, I think the best way of viewing the semantic center of <em>pistis</em> is in the words <em>commitment</em>, <em>dependence</em>, <em>trust</em>, and <em>devotion</em>. As I said, “belief” plays a part, since we devote ourselves to things we believe in, and believe in things we are devoted to. But because no facts are unfiltered and uninterpreted by our minds, holding fast to beliefs is in essence dependence upon ourselves and our ability to properly parse those facts. What God requires is commitment to and dependence upon Him, amounting to total surrender. At very least, surely it is obvious that the faith that pleases God is not the type that is taken up and held to without a basis; above all, faith is <em>not</em> about being dogmatic about something we have no evidence for, nor likewise something we have mounds of evidence <em>against</em>.</p>
<p>Paul is the one whose teaching is the source of the common focus on <em>belief</em> in certain propositions. But I am coming to think that he instead was more concerned (at least in some of his writing) that we <em>depend</em> <em>on</em> our identification with Christ, whose surpassing faithfulness to God was displayed by his surrender to the point of death. It is for the sake of <em>his</em> faithfulness that we are saved. In turn, we identify with Christ by sacrificing ourselves (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Rom+12.1&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Rom 12.1" target="_new">Rom 12.1</a>). Paul&#8217;s view was shared by the author of Hebrews, who more clearly articulated it in <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Hebrews+3.1-6&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Hebrews 3.1-6" target="_new">Hebrews 3.1-6</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
  Therefore, holy brothers and companions in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession; <span style="text-decoration: underline;">He was faithful to the One who appointed Him</span>, just as Moses was in all God&#8217;s household. For Jesus is considered worthy of more glory than Moses, just as the builder has more honor than the house. Now every house is built by someone, but the One who built everything is God. Moses was faithful as a servant in all God&#8217;s household, as a testimony to what would be said [in the future]. But <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Christ was faithful as a Son over His household, whose household we are if we hold on to the courage and the confidence of our hope</span>. [HCS]
</p></blockquote>
<p>Paul seems to have argued that God grants us grace by associating us with Christ&#8217;s work. God graciously identifies us as faithful to Himself through our identification with Jesus in a relationship of joint commitment, not from our accomplishment of the works of the Law, which was regarded as within the bounds of human ability alone. Our faithfulness is not the prerequisite to this grace, but its goal. In fact, one reason why many Protestant biblical scholars are not at all happy with Hays’s reading of <em>pistis christou</em> is the extremely close association in <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Philippians+3.4-14&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Philippians 3.4-14" target="_new">Philippians 3.4-14</a> between our being identified with Christ’s faithfulness and our participation in His faithfulness:</p>
<blockquote><p>
  …and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but one that comes through (the) faith(fulness) [of] Christ, the righteousness from God based on faith(fulness). I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death, if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this… [<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Philippians+3.9&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Philippians 3.9" target="_new">Philippians 3.9</a>-12a <span class="caps">NRSV</span>]
</p></blockquote>
<p>Notice how Paul explicitly states that his participation is not complete and that, inasmuch as it is not, he entertains the possibility of his own failure to attain to the resurrection from the dead! Notice also that this possibility acknowledged by Paul does not disappear no matter how you interpret <em>pistis christou.</em> The author <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Ephesians+2.8-10&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Ephesians 2.8-10" target="_new">Ephesians 2.8-10</a> put it this way:</p>
<blockquote><p>
  For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God&#8217;s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
</p></blockquote>
<p>If we take the view of I outlined above seriously, we notice that these verses essentially equate <em>pistis</em> with good works. A paraphrase of the verse reveals this: “By God&#8217;s grace you are saved through faithfulness, and this faithfulness is God&#8217;s gift as well, and not something the Law could have brought about. For it is <em>God</em> who has crafted us into instruments of doing good works [faithfulness] that He desires.” The key distinction is between “works” and “good works”. Paul never devalues “good works”; his criticism is of <em>works of the Law</em> (<a href="http://undeception.com/new-perspective/" target="_blank">this post</a> discusses what he probably meant by <em>that</em>), which is what Paul means by “works” when it is not qualified (unlike James). <em>In fact, we are told that</em> <em>performing “good works” is what we are supposed to be about doing</em> <em>(</em><em><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=2+Cor+9.8&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV 2Cor 9.8" target="_new">2 Cor 9.8</a>).</em> This understanding of what “faith” is becomes clearest when we look outside of the epistles recognized by scholars today as authentic Pauline epistles: see <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Col+1.10%2C+2&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Col 1.10, 2" target="_new">Col 1.10, 2</a> <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Tim+2.21%2C+2&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Tim 2.21, 2" target="_new">Tim 2.21, 2</a> <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Tim+3.17&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Tim 3.17" target="_new">Tim 3.17</a>; cf. also Hebrews (discussed above) and James (discussed below). <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Ephesians+2.8-10&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Ephesians 2.8-10" target="_new">Ephesians 2.8-10</a> isn&#8217;t saying that good works are not necessary — indeed, the opposite — but that no one is able to hold up his/her end of the bargain by doing good works apart from God&#8217;s grace, simply by following the Law. Reading “faith” and “works” in this light actually reconciles an apparent conflict between the theology of Paul and James, who wrote, “Faith without works is dead”. James seems to be arguing against precisely the sort of misinterpretation of Paul that Luther championed; this is why Luther famously rejected the book of James and called it an “epistle of straw”. It is important to realize that unlike Paul, James does not use “works” to refer specifically to any ritual “works of the Law”. He clearly articulates the kind of works he expects that are part and parcel of “faith(fulness)”:</p>
<blockquote><p>
  If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. [<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=James+2.15-17&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV James 2.15-17" target="_new">James 2.15-17</a>]
</p></blockquote>
<p>He seems to be referring to the “good works” of Ep 2.10, doesn&#8217;t he? And as if this weren&#8217;t obvious enough, James next appeals to the example of two individuals who lived <em>outside</em> the Law, Abraham and Rahab (vv. 21-26). I find myself under the impression that whether we are to try to please God by works of devotion or not wasn&#8217;t even an issue for Paul; this was taken for granted. Rather, he sought to emphasize that inasmuch as we accomplish good works, God is fulfilling His purposes through us:</p>
<blockquote><p>
  Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. [<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Phil+2.12&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Phil 2.12" target="_new">Phil 2.12</a>]
</p></blockquote>
<p>Paul certainly contends that we don&#8217;t depend on our good works to please God; rather, we depend upon (=”have faith in”) God, submitting and surrendering to (=”having faith in”) Him to follow Him in faithfulness. It seems that, although energized by God&#8217;s grace, Paul expected believers to take the maintenance of faith in its true sense as a responsibility.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve known many Christians so afraid of trampling on the work of Christ by depending on good works for salvation that they, in effect, looked down their nose at good works, chastising congregations that spend “too much” time and effort with ministries and programs and not enough with “worship”, by which they meant praising God and basking in His love (especially with music). I understand that many of them spend so much of their lives trying to earn favor with God by proving their own merit that once they encounter the grace that is Christ&#8217;s meritorious faithfulness they become intoxicated by it, with the result that they neglect their own “reasonable service” in response. Others find the notion of mental assent to true propositions to be the core framework for faith based on their misapprehension of what <em>faith</em> meant to the biblical authors, and understandably spend the bulk of their time in developing the perfect set of beliefs and disparaging those who don&#8217;t do likewise. I think these are all distractions at best, and outright perversions of biblical <em>faith</em> at worst. We are to show true worship to God not only by thanking Him, but by committing our best effort to modeling the faithfulness set before us by Jesus.</p>
<p>No soteriological answers here. But it&#8217;s fertile ground for discussion, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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<p>Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://undeception.com/pistis-iesou-christou/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: An (ancient) introduction to &#8220;faith in Christ&#8221; vs. &#8220;Christ&#8217;s&nbsp;faith&#8221;'>An (ancient) introduction to &#8220;faith in Christ&#8221; vs. &#8220;Christ&#8217;s&nbsp;faith&#8221;</a> <small>Originally inspired by this recent post by Doug Chaplin, I exhumed a paper I wrote in third year Greek while an undergrad (I estimate this to be c. 2000-2001). As...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/defining-faith-in-hebrews-11-1/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Defining faith in Hebrews&nbsp;11.1'>Defining faith in Hebrews&nbsp;11.1</a> <small>I have always thought that Hebrews 11.1 sounded beautiful, with a mystical air to it: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen....</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/campbell-what-did-paul-mean-by-justified/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Campbell: what did Paul mean by&nbsp;&#8220;justified&#8221;?'>Campbell: what did Paul mean by&nbsp;&#8220;justified&#8221;?</a> <small>Here&#8217;s an excerpt from the first part of a review of a book I&#8217;ve been interested in since I first heard about it. It&#8217;s from the New Perspective school of...</small></li>
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		<title>An (ancient) introduction to “faith in Christ” vs. “Christ’s faith”</title>
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		<comments>http://undeception.com/pistis-iesou-christou/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 01:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Biblical studies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Perspective on Paul]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Douglas Campbell]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faithfulness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NPP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paul]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pauline theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pistis]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Reformed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Richard Hays]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Originally inspired by this recent post by Doug Chaplin, I exhumed a paper I wrote in third year Greek while an undergrad (I estimate this to be c. 2000-2001). As a segue between my last post and my next, I thought I&#8217;d present it here with minimal edits. Please realize that the scholarship within this [...]


Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://undeception.com/more-on-what-nt-faith-is-about/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: More on what NT faith is&nbsp;about'>More on what NT faith is&nbsp;about</a> <small>Under the typical Protestant understanding of “faith” as “not doubting something that one believes without proof”, I as a young Protestant could never fathom why God would be so tickled...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/defining-faith-in-hebrews-11-1/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Defining faith in Hebrews&nbsp;11.1'>Defining faith in Hebrews&nbsp;11.1</a> <small>I have always thought that Hebrews 11.1 sounded beautiful, with a mystical air to it: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen....</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/how-do-you-know-youre-in-the-faith/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: How do you know you&#8217;re in the&nbsp;faith?'>How do you know you&#8217;re in the&nbsp;faith?</a> <small>I think Paul gives us a somewhat unexpected answer in 2 Corinthians. I&#8217;ll return to the subject of this post after a (possibly irrelevant) discursus here. This morning in Sunday...</small></li>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Originally inspired by this recent <a href="http://clayboy.co.uk/2009/10/whose-righteousness-translating-paul-with-prejudice/" target="_blank">post by Doug Chaplin</a>, I exhumed a paper I wrote in third year Greek while an undergrad (I estimate this to be c. 2000-2001). As a segue between <a href="http://undeception.com/defining-faith-in-hebrews-11-1/">my last post</a> and my next, I thought I&#8217;d present it here with minimal edits. Please realize that the scholarship within this is a good decade behind, but given the modesty of the claims in this overview, I sincerely doubt that much of what is argued below has been soundly defeated.</em></p>
<p>The interpretation of <em>Iesou</em> <em>Christou</em> as an objective genitive (faith in Jesus Christ) in <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Galatians+2.16&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Galatians 2.16" target="_new">Galatians 2.16</a> and 3.22 (cf. Php 3.9) is the overwhelmingly pervasive reading of that construction. Fairly recently, however, scholarship has had to come to terms with the work of many scholars such as Richard B. Hays, who argues most strenuously that our modern fixation on the freedom of the individual conscience distorts Paul’s concerns. In his article, “Jesus’ Faith and Ours” (<em>T</em><em>heological Students Fellowship Bulletin</em>, 7 No. 1 [S-O 1983], 2-6), Hays argued that nowhere in <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Galatians+3&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Galatians 3" target="_new">Galatians 3</a> does Paul place any emphasis on the salvific efficacy of “believing,” and nor does he speak of Jesus Christ as the object of human faith. Paul insists that we are redeemed/justified by Jesus Christ’s faithfulness (<em>pistis Iesou Christou</em>) on our behalf, not by our believing.</p>
<p>What must be demonstrated to make this minority view plausible?</p>
<p>The case for the subjective genitive interpretation (faith/faithfulness of Christ Jesus) is grammatically the most obvious. BAGD notes that translating the genitive as “in” is possible with reference to <em>pistis</em>, but acknowledges that <em>pistis</em> is usually found without an object. Moreover, translating the genitive as “of” is most commonly preferable with most other words. Noteworthy among the arguments for the subjective genitive view is that when <em>pistis</em> takes a personal genitive it is almost never an objective genitive (cf. <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Matt+9%3A2%2C+22%2C+29&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Matt 9:2, 22, 29" target="_new">Matt 9:2, 22, 29</a>; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Mark+2%3A5&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Mark 2:5" target="_new">Mark 2:5</a>; 5:34; 10:52; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Luke+5%3A20&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Luke 5:20" target="_new">Luke 5:20</a>; 7:50; 8:25, 48; 17:19; 18:42; 22:32; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Rom+1%3A8&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Rom 1:8" target="_new">Rom 1:8</a>; 12; 3:3; 4:5, 12, 16; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=1+Cor+2%3A5&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV 1Cor 2:5" target="_new">1 Cor 2:5</a>; 15:14, 17; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=2+Cor+10%3A15&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV 2Cor 10:15" target="_new">2 Cor 10:15</a>; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Phil+2%3A17&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Phil 2:17" target="_new">Phil 2:17</a>; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Col+1%3A4&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Col 1:4" target="_new">Col 1:4</a>; 2:5; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=1+Thess+1%3A8&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV 1Thess 1:8" target="_new">1 Thess 1:8</a>; 3:2, 5, 10; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=2+Thess+1%3A3&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV 2Thess 1:3" target="_new">2 Thess 1:3</a>; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Titus+1%3A1&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Titus 1:1" target="_new">Titus 1:1</a>; Phlm 6; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=1+Pet+1%3A9%2C+21&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV 1Pet 1:9, 21" target="_new">1 Pet 1:9, 21</a>; <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=2+Pet+1%3A5&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV 2Pet 1:5" target="_new">2 Pet 1:5</a>). <a href="http://undeception.com/campbell-what-did-paul-mean-by-justified/" target="_blank">Douglas Campbell</a>, an advocate of the subjective usage, has been accused of being too dogmatic or dramatic by Brian Dodd, who has sympathies with the subjective camp, because Campbell makes the statement that how we take Paul’s usage of <em>pistis Christou Iesou</em> might “open up the possibility of a major reevaluation of Paul’s . . . theology as a whole.” However, Hays in both the article mentioned above and his dissertation, <em>The Faith of Jesus Christ</em>, highlights the significance of this alternative translation when he makes the statement that in Galatians, Paul insists we are justified by Christ’s faith/faithfulness, not our believing.</p>
<p>Much research and study has gone into this debate, with conservative scholars even delving into the ranks of those who see Christ’s faith/faithfulness as Paul’s intended meaning in such phrases as <em>dia pisteos</em> and <em>ek pisteos</em>, even in passages where the specifier <em>Christou Iesou</em> is not present. The likeliest loci for this scenario are <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Romans+1%3A17&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Romans 1:17" target="_new">Romans 1:17</a> and 3:25-26.</p>
<p><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Romans+1%3A17&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Romans 1:17" target="_new">Romans 1:17</a> is Paul’s quotation of <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Habakkuk+2%3A4&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Habakkuk 2:4" target="_new">Habakkuk 2:4</a>, “The righteous one shall live by faith/faithfulness.” Campbell took this statement as Messianic, so better to be translated, “The Righteous One shall live by His faithfulness.” One could still argue for the faithfulness of Christ being the basis for life (rather than believing faith on the part of the believer) if one takes the “righteous one” to be any number of people who now have the opportunity to live rather than a reference to Christ, and therefore, “The righteous one shall live by His faith/faithfulness.”</p>
<p>Paul in <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Romans+3%3A25-26&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Romans 3:25-26" target="_new">Romans 3:25-26</a> states, as the New English Translation translates it, “God publicly displayed him as a satisfaction for sin by his blood through faith. This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed. This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus’ faithfulness,” or <em>ek pisteos Iesou</em>. This passage shows the value of such an interpretation: Jesus was put on display as a satisfaction for sin by his blood through faith (<em>dia pisteos</em>); in other words, Jesus was capable of demonstrating God’s righteousness in being publicly displayed because Jesus had faith or was faithful, not because of our faith in Him.</p>
<p>This concept is similar to that in <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Galatians+3%3A13-14&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Galatians 3:13-14" target="_new">Galatians 3:13-14</a>, “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (because it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree’) in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit by faith.” Longenecker’s commentary on Galatians discusses Paul’s paradigm of Abraham’s faith and our justification by looking at the perception of Jewish writers concerning Abraham’s faith/faithfulness. Jewish scholars tended to view Abraham’s extreme faith and faithfulness as being their very salvation, much as the Church of Rome would much later come to proclaim with the idea of “works of supererogation.” In other words, Abraham’s merit was so exceedingly worthy of God’s favor that those who are Abraham’s seed are worthy of God’s favor by virtue of Abraham&#8217;s merit. Another common picture was that of Abraham’s ten trials through which he remained faithful. If one sees Paul’s use of the term <em>pistis</em> in this passage as referring to Christ’s faith being that wih which we must be identified for justification, a faithfulness that was consistent enough even to submit to being cursed by hanging on a tree, then we see that it is Christ’s work of supererogation that justified Abraham and therefore us as well. <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Galatians+2%3A16&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Galatians 2:16" target="_new">Galatians 2:16</a> contrasts those who seek to be justified by works of the Law and those who seek to be justified <em>dia pisteos Iesou Christou</em>. Instead of the common translation of being “justified through faith in Jesus Christ,” read “justified through Jesus Christ’s merit,” or “Jesus Christ’s work of supererogation” (which means, after all, “a work above or beyond”). This merit can be seen by his death, being publicly placarded as Paul reminds the Galatians in 3:1. Jesus’ obedience unto death providing for redemption is also strongly demonstrated in <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Romans+5%3A19&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Romans 5:19" target="_new">Romans 5:19</a>: “For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man many will be made righteous.”</p>
<p>The case is, then, rather strong for the belief that the faith that we stand upon is not our own, but that of Jesus, upon whose merit alone we may hope to be justified.</p>
<p>_________________________</p>
<p>I just came across <a href="http://epistletothegalatians.wordpress.com/faithfulness-inof-christ-bibliography/" target="_blank">this bibliography</a> devoted to this topic. I used a few of those sources for my paper, although inexplicably the copy of the paper that I have doesn&#8217;t show them.</p>
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<p>Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://undeception.com/more-on-what-nt-faith-is-about/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: More on what NT faith is&nbsp;about'>More on what NT faith is&nbsp;about</a> <small>Under the typical Protestant understanding of “faith” as “not doubting something that one believes without proof”, I as a young Protestant could never fathom why God would be so tickled...</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/defining-faith-in-hebrews-11-1/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: Defining faith in Hebrews&nbsp;11.1'>Defining faith in Hebrews&nbsp;11.1</a> <small>I have always thought that Hebrews 11.1 sounded beautiful, with a mystical air to it: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen....</small></li>
<li><a href='http://undeception.com/how-do-you-know-youre-in-the-faith/' rel='bookmark' title='Permanent Link: How do you know you&#8217;re in the&nbsp;faith?'>How do you know you&#8217;re in the&nbsp;faith?</a> <small>I think Paul gives us a somewhat unexpected answer in 2 Corinthians. I&#8217;ll return to the subject of this post after a (possibly irrelevant) discursus here. This morning in Sunday...</small></li>
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