Emotional Abuse and Your Faith

Insecurity, and the ‘MANHOOD’ race that breeds it

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 07:51:00 -0500

Culture is a very powerful thing no matter where you live. I mentioned that last time I wrote when I spoke of India’s Daughter.

It’s very hard to speak about the dangerous aspects of culture, because ‘this is how it is’ type of statements are used to shut down the conversation.

What they refuse to do is acknowledge that YES you can change aspects that harm your society, but it reminds me of the saying ‘you can’t fight city hall’ at times. Their insecurity wipes out all common sense.

In India proving your womanhood is accepting your second class status, and revering the authority of men. They are much more upfront about this second class status, whereas here in the states places like CBMW tend to use women mouth pieces like Mary Kassian to get a blunt as they are.

Both places tend to enrich insecurity in men by asking them to prove their manhood. They need to learn to display it, prove it to the world around them. That is the only way they keep their ‘authority’.

Greg Hahn started to blog recently, and he spoke of some statements that John Piper had made. I encourage you to read his post – its very good!

When you listen to what John Piper is saying about how people can’t explain to a little boy what biblical manhood is – or little girl about her role as far as that goes….it seems to come down to authority. That is the only difference. If Egalitarians can’t tell a little boy about his manhood in terms of his authority…they can’t tell that little boy how to be a man….biblically.

Insecurity

“Most American men know perfectly well the qualities they must display to be considered fully creditable as men: power, competitiveness, and toughness.”

That’s the prize, right there. You have to be “considered fully creditable as a man”. And the unspoken understanding of many is that you don’t just get that from having X and Y chromosomes and reaching adulthood. You have to earn your manhood, so as to be seen manly by those around you. If you can feel it, all the better, but in the very least you need to be seen that way.

I quoted part of Greg Hahn’s article, because he makes a great point here to me.

To me culture within certain faith communities, and YES that includes complementarianism are individuals having to prove our ‘gender hood’ constantly. They play into fears – of secular culture – in order to raise your insecurity. Most of the time they love exaggerating these fears about culture as well. That way you drive even harder to disprove the misconception.

Men are always told how to show their ‘manhood’, and women in this circle are shown how they can prove they are not a FEMINIST!

If you have read enough of the complementarian model you know authority within manhood is very important. Yes, they claim this authority is based in Christ-like servanthood. Yet, if you listen to the messages this servanthood is based in the ‘this is how it is’ model.

It’s similar to India’s viewpoint towards their females: She should not be put on the streets just like food. The ‘lady’, on the other hand, you can say the ‘girl’ or ‘woman’, are more precious than a gem, than a diamond. Its up to you how you want to keep that diamond in your hand. If you put that diamond on the street, certainly the dogs will carry it out. You can’t stop it” - Attorney for Rapists

The man is constantly proving his manhood, and if the woman steps out of ‘this is how it is’ mode? It’s ultimately the man’s fault for not treating his gem or diamond as he should. He placed her out of the street, and let the dogs carry her out. The women should know their place in the home – where they are safe from the dogs.

In India, if you are out after the time some man feels you shouldn’t be? If they think you are with a man that is NOT a family member? They teach you a lesson by rape.

They seem to feel they are taking their authority, but there is no true authority there. Its just cockeyed.

This is what happens when you don’t follow my authority.

Women are told to make sure their men ‘feel’ their manhood, and men are constantly having to show their manhood.

It’s not really manhood they are speaking about, but authority if you want to get down to it.

You also notice it’s a never ending race to earn your manhood, and yet you are told you are ‘wired’ that way.

It really makes no sense does it?

If your woman doesn’t show the ‘this is how it is’ model of biblical womanhood it reflects badly on your manhood or authority. This lack of authority within his household helps feed the insecurity, and the threat of him having a feminist within his home? You need to MAN UP! (I hate that term!) This normally leads to cruel things happening in order to teach her a lesson.

The insecurity over his threat to his manhood is the justification. Its similar to India’s justification of rape we read about above. This is what happens when you don’t follow my authority. Heck, they will take it a step further – for dramatic purposes – stating she emasculated him.

When people are taught that is how you treat a gem or a diamond? It reflects the sense of worth they truly have towards the other gender, but you are told you don’t get it if you point this out.

It seems to me that they breed insecurity in men, and when you have an insecure person – be it man or women – they tend to lash out.

Insecurity leads to contempt

Insecure people also tend to use stereotypes, and project irrational fears that they want to come across as normal. Owen Strachman shows this when he speaks about Baby Bear, and how he think boys playing with dolls is foolish. He wants to speak about, ‘God-encoded truth about sexuality and gender’! Yet, we are talking about a preschool kid playing ‘Daddy’.

Yes, it’s a great example of ‘this is how it is’! Yet, its not in reality. As Greg said, “You have to earn your manhood, so as to be seen manly by those around you. If you can feel it, all the better, but in the very least you need to be seen that way.’'

His father feels shame, because there maybe something in his son that isn’t ‘manhood’ enough. So, they encourage him to tell his son only girls play with dolls. You don’t want to be a ‘girl’ do you?

His son’s innocent playtime wanting to be a ‘Daddy’ now turns into a show of how the father isn’t teaching his son properly, and Dad’s (manhood) authority is threatened. You don’t earn your manhood stripes by allowing your son to play with DOLLS!

Why people can’t see that is a major brain fart in the realm of common sense is beyond me! I also don’t understand why they can’t see their reaction as dishonoring women. I mean that is authority gone haywire! They also – like India – turn women or femininity into the realm of ‘them’.

Then you are reduced to ‘them’ contempt isn’t far behind. Contempt is also a byproduct of insecurity.

Culture is hard to change. Society is learning to accept, love, and grow in diversity..and moving away proving your gender.

Let’s pray that ‘this is how it is’ goes away, and we finally learn to live with the here and now. Yes, lets turn this around to: That is how it was. No fake show of authority needed, and no pressure to earn your manhood that comes from those fake needs.

Learning to love and respect humanity just as Jesus did.

India’s Daughter, Difficult to Change Culture

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Fri, 6 Mar 2015 14:37:00 -0600

Culture is a very power thing no matter where you live. It effects your life, and those around you as well. Changing culture is a very hard thing to do, and people always are afraid of this change.

There is never anything truly WRONG with my culture, but it is YOURS that is the problem.

We have seen this used against a faith community due to terrorists that claim they represent the faith themselves. So people condemn them all.

We see the same thing when it comes to same type of generalizations towards race, and gender.

You can condemn things easier when you have removed their humanity. You then can view them as a group, and that makes your contempt, distain, and hate more palatable. You can learn to live with that, because you no longer see them as human.

They are now just ‘them’.

India’s Daughter

I had been reading recently about an documentary on BBC about, “India’s Daughter’'. It is a documentary on the brutal gang-rape of Jyoti Singh in 2012, and speaks of the protests and rioting in that country afterwards.

They wanted to change the culture’s view towards women, and you can feel how HARD that is going to be just by listening to how some of the individuals speak about this horrific crime.

Jyoti Singh is a perfect example of ‘them’ in her culture.

(You can try to google the documentary, but I get the impression they are removing it as fast as people can upload it online. I found it on youtube.)

It’s going to be a HUGE uphill battle to change their culture, because their culture has been in place for centuries. You are brought up from cradle to grave with what they see as acceptable viewpoints towards the female gender.

When Jyoti was born her family gave out candies to celebrate her birth, and people didn’t understand WHY they would do this…you only do that for boys. Her parents told them they celebrate their children.

When she was older she asked that they use her dowry to pay for her schooling, and her parents also sold their ancestral land to pay for her studies.

The culture was astonished that they would throw away all that for this girl. To her parents she was a good investment, and besides they loved her.

She finished her final exams to be a doctor, and she was on break until her 6 months of what we call ‘residency’ started. She and male friend went to see a movie that night, and on their bus ride home 6 men beat her male friend…and raped, tortured and left her to die on the side of the road.

A man that found her described her as a cow after giving birth. Her organs were coming out her vagina, and he said he was frustrated because no one was helping. They just watched.

Her mother said her last words were: Sorry Mummy. I gave you so much trouble. I’m sorry.

At that point the machines flatlined, and her breathing stopped.

Jyoti was dead. Her father’s words about her funeral? You could feel and hear the heartbreak even though he kept his composure. I’ll leave the description there, so you may see it for yourself in the documentary.

Protests for Change

For FAR to many in India?

It was assumed that Jyoti was just one of ‘them’.

Protestors wanted to change that reality for her, and for women in general in India. They wanted to change people’s minds that she was human, and not a ‘them’.

They want to give females the humanity that they deserve.

Like many cultures if you listen to the men (most of them anyway) in this documentary they speak of women as more precious than a gem or diamond.

“She should not be put on the streets just like food. The ‘lady’, on the other hand, you can say the ‘girl’ or ‘woman’, are more precious than a gem, than a diamond. Its up to you how you want to keep that diamond in your hand. If you put that diamond on the street, certainly the dogs will carry it out. You can’t stop it” - Attorney for Rapists

So, in other words the ‘dogs’ (men) see women as food to carry out, because of instinct. It can’t be stopped. So, if you don’t show the dogs outside you have food (your women) they can’t carry it out.

Problem is their ‘more precious than a gem’ women also are attacked within the house by dogs, and that is also their fault.

India Banned The Documentary

Now, India is having a problem with this documentary. They don’t wish for people to discuss the dogs, nor steps on how to stop them. They claim that the documentary shames their women, and doesn’t represent THEIR India.

Let’s be honest here! We all know its not about how this will shame women, and cause trouble for them. They just don’t like how their patriarchy on steroids has shamed the dogs. Their entitled to their place, and their women have theirs.

Like I said in the beginning – its hard to change culture. With progress, education, and changes within their culture? They will embrace the pride in their country once again.

In the meantime? They better hold on to their hats, because ‘banning’ the film is just causing people to seek it out even more to see it anyway. They basically gave the film FREE publicity that they were not counting on.

I pray that their ‘gems’ receive their humanity back, because no one deserves to be a ‘them’.

Additional Resources:

'India's Daughter,' the film banned by India: What did it show?

Indian government remains defiant over ban on BBC rape documentary

Indian Lawyers May Be Reprimanded for Sexist Remarks in Rape Documentary

My Update

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 07:38:00 -0500

It seems like a lifetime since I posted anything on my blog. No, I haven't stopped just taking a break.

My mother had been sick for quite some time, and finally passed away on June 27th. I guess I have been just processing the whole journey with her, and her very rough ending. I know at this point she is with Jesus, and in peace finally in heaven.

Since then it seems like its one thing after another I have had to deal with, and my friends keep reminding me to allow myself the time to get back on track with my life. I seemed to have bounced back after the death of my father, but for some reason her death just seemed to drain me of energy and focus. I suppose that is just part of the mourning process.

I had received some notes of concern, and I just wanted to update everyone. I will be back soon!

Hannah

Use Silly Examples for the 'you don't get it' Generation?

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:09:00 -0500

I started reading CBMW’s new e-book they released online. If you read the Foreword by John Piper it seems this is a introduction to the NEW group of complementarian leaders of our future. ,

I’ll begin with the first chapter of their new e-book.

Owen Strachan is continuing the theme of humans being ‘confused’ by their gender. How if you allow him to show you the truth about gender and God? Things just magically work I guess. WELL at least you are doing it the biblical way anyway right?! Problem is they are taking the same approach as the past leaders, and using scenes, stories and descriptions in a way that only their ‘group’ can relate to. Sadly, not their intended audience. Isn’t that whom they are trying convince…I would think right?

Owen Strachan spoke about a movie scene in ‘Juno”, and it made me realize they just plain see things differently compared to how they truly play out. They read things into circumstances that might not even be there, and apply assumptions that totally miss the mark.

Owen Strachan’s description of a scene from the movie, “Juno’.

The lips of the young woman quivered. Tears rolled down her face. Her angry father stared at her. “I thought you were the kind of girl who didn’t get into this sort of trouble,” he said. She looked back at him confused and adrift: “I guess I don’t really know what kind of girl I am.”

This exchange came in Juno, a poignant film made a few years ago. It’s a quick scene, but it has stuck with me ever since. In this young woman’s reply, I heard the confusion of an entire generation. So many young men and young women don’t know who they are.

Now you can see the scene in question online, and you just google Juno telling her parents she is pregnant. Otherwise, just click my highlighted link.

There was no lips quivering, tears rolling down her face – no an angry father telling her he didn’t think she was that type of girl. It was a pretty matter of fact scene, and I’m not going to say her father wasn’t disappointed. He was indeed disappointed.

Juno announced that she found a couple that would adopt her child, and pay for all her medical expenses. Dad wanted to come with her to the meeting to make sure she wasn’t taken advantage of.

Then he says to her, “I thought you were the type of girl that knew when to say when”. Yes, she did indeed say she didn’t know what type of girl she was. In the very next scene, the father felt the blame was clearly on his shoulders. Was he NOT a good enough father?!

Her sense of confusion is NOT what he describes – or approaches within this chapter. He just plucked out, and used it. Sadly, that’s what’s confusing.

There are seasons in life where we all wonder!

When children find themselves in trouble – and we all do, and it doesn’t have to be this type of trouble – children will question themselves, and parents will question themselves as well. This is NOT an unusual type of reaction.

Yes, there is plenty of fear and questioning of yourself when you enter a garbage dump type of circumstance like they (family in the movie) did. Yet, if you follow the movie the relationship between the child and parents isn’t what this CBMW author – Owen Strachan – describes at all. In times of confusion, hurt, and fear we all tend to question things from time to time. Its called our human factor.

Most of us growing up at Juno’s age tend to wonder about what type of person they are. Its just that season of life – Christian or not. It normally has nothing to do with gender identification, but the essence of whom we are…and what our dreams for life entail. The work involved, and the path of the unknown did scare me. As we grown older? There are new stages like: Mid-life, Retirement, etc. This isn’t good or bad…it just IS!

I never had this vision or belief that God would just make everything happily ever after – as Owen describes the culture. I’m not saying I wasn’t naïve in some ways, but I never felt things would be handed to me automatically either (using Owen’s Genie in the Bottle God examples). Every generation has bumps in the road that force them to grow up, and we all have our different blind spots and ways of viewing the world. Its part of growing UP!

I remember being taught to obey and respect adults, because they are responsible for looking out for you. If you find yourself in trouble, lost, etc go to your church family that will help you during this time of crisis. This was NOT an uncommon thing to teach children of my generation, but pretty much just accepted.

Imagine the reality slap when you find out that as humans we are not as dependable as we were taught growing up. It was normally after having our world’s shattered in some way, because they preferred to keep us naïve and we fell into a evil circumstance totally unprepared.

Realities of Growing Up is Normal!

That is what woke me up. Realizing that there are good and bad people everywhere – YES even within the Christian environment. At first, I felt that was my imagination. I mean we are suppose to think the best of people right? I truly questioned myself, because life just didn’t lineup the way I was taught…was I missing something? Why was I so different, because everyone else could see something I just didn’t? I questioned my humanness – not gender, because I could see people within the fold that were not safe – and everyone’s felt they were the best thing since sliced bread!

The validation I felt when the truth of their perceptions of this person were wrong, and mine was right? Sadly, at times just added to my confusion. They had a hard time facing it, and many excuses were offered up instead. The truth they taught, and the ones they lived were different. With maturity I found it wasn’t me – but them. The why’s? I wonder if I will ever truly know to be honest. It still doesn’t make sense to me.

I can honestly tell you I have never in my life questioned what it was to be a woman. I mean I was one – what’s to question? It wasn’t something I could change, and I never felt like a man was the same thing as a woman. Genders were never interchangeable, and quite honestly I never had the desire to ‘rule over anything. (giggles) Did I want the children and pets to mind me? SURE, but I didn’t want to ‘rule over’ them. I never felt the need to RULE over men in my life either. (I’m referring the common stereotypes that Owen is using in his chapter, and we have all heard before as well)

I also realized there were times in life in which you must let go, and allow people to walk alone (ie: mostly children now). As I get older I get to feel that reality as I watch my kids grow into adulthood. I can’t tell you how many times I bit my lips SHUT, because I had to allow them to fall. Yes, I had a plan when they did of course. Yet, I learned sometimes they see things clearly when you show them, and other times you need to let them learn life by themselves. Discernment on which way is best? Isn’t parenthood lovely at times?! (giggles)

I realized with my own life experiences that when people used over the top examples, and just plain strange made up stories that were suppose to scare me into NOT going in some direction? It generally didn’t work, and I wondered if they seriously felt I was that dumb to buy it. In my teen years? I remember wondering about their sanity, and if they were seriously that out of touch. I may not have said it, but I thought IT! Children are smarter today in that aspect than I was back in the stone ages.

Then you have times in which you have to learn to live with your children’s decisions even though you don’t like them ONE little BIT! We all have to live and grow in our own ways. It was be nice if life was so black and white, but it never turns out that way. It never has. Some families struggle to keep their control, but I know that can blow up in face BIG TIME if you hold to those reigns to tight. Letting go is indeed a struggle.

Ridiculous Stereotypes Tend Not To Convince The Majority Anymore!

Are there people that view life as Owen describes in his Narcissistic Optimistic Deism way? Here is a quote from his google book to tell you how he describes this:

Sometimes a whole life's work takes shape around a single comment that helps us unlock who we are and what we are made to do. You find this theme in popular culture. Take the largely unknown film Dear Frankie, a 2004 movie that tells the deeply touching story of a boy named Frankie whose mother left her abusive husband. Desperate to give her son a manly role model, she hires a seaman she doesn't know to pretend to be Frankie's father. Frankie is a sad boy; life is hard for him. His is a heartbreaking childhood. But something changes when this man enters his life. He realizes that he is loved. He has a new identity. He gains confidence, meaning and hope. The transformation is nothing short of stunning.

There's a version of this kind of message that is cheesy. It's based around secular self-esteem and selfish dreams: "I can be whoever I want to be, and I deserve better than what I have." You could call this way of thinking narcissistic optimistic deism. It says, "I'm the center of all things," "My life is will always get better, because I deserve it, " and "I believe in God! He's the granter of all my wishes" (as opposed to his being the righteous ruler of all things). God is like the boyfriend in a Bruno Mars or Lady Gaga song, or a hanger-on in a C-list reality-TV star's entourage: he never asks us to change, but exists only to flatter us, build us up, soothe us when something doesn't go the way we want.

That's how many people today approach God: he exists to make me great. This is an unhealthy view of God, and its why we need to be careful when talking with people who say they believe in God. I fear that many today believe in God because they see him as a Great Dream-Granter in the Sky, the one who coddles us and give us everything we want because it's owed to us. I'm Beautiful; I'm smart; I'm gifted. I deserve to have a nice life because I'm a good person. If things don't go right for me, I'm going to throw a fit, because is about me and my happiness.

I’m sure there are people that think like this – the world has all kinds after all. I have never got the impression that it is the norm, and it bothered me that he felt the movie he mentioned was all about what he described. That made no sense. I mean what she did – not recommended of course, but well intended – wasn’t about her and her wants. It was for her son after all.

I honestly don’t remember running into someone that is a Christian that believes that God is their Dream Granter….lol or Genie in the bottle the way he describes it!

Yet, when I read stuff like this? It reminds me WHY they can’t reach the people they claim they want to.

When I was in high school the BIG anti Drug film was, “Go Ask Alice”. They played the film for our health class, and then followed it up with the message if you EVER smoke a joint (marijuana cigarette) you will die with a needle in your arm (heroin overdose) in some back alley. Problem was we could relate to the movie itself, but the scare tactics afterwards? Unless you were totally naïve we thought they were full of it for the most part. Their message – even well intended was blown off as not serious. Completely out of TOUCH in other words.

That is what their approach reminds me of. The cultural Christian’s think God is their personal genie in the bottle. I’m the center of the universe, and he is there to grant my wishes. Seriously?!

With any type of stereotype they use within this type of faith realm you will notice they wish to take on the role of ‘Holy Spirit’ when they tell you how it really is. They wish to ‘discern’ for you too, and anything outside their belief bubble tends to be explained away as evil. Then they use some nutty story – or description – like they he did above to tie it all together nicely with a bow.

Their presentation is a joke much like my Health teacher’s introduction to ‘gateway’ drugs. Their over the top presentation isn’t going to be taken seriously. You can’t reach your audience with this type of approach. They sound like naïve children that were sold a bill of goods, and now they want us to also. lol then are confused when people want NOTHING to do with it!

They also tend to take the worse example of humanity they feel exists, and use them as the norm for majority of the culture. Here is another quote of the ‘type’ you hear about often regarding confusion of gender:

Our culture tells us the opposite: Sure, you may be born with a few certain parts, but that doesn’t mean anything. Men and women are interchangeable. Gender is malleable, changeable, unfixed, unimportant.

Reminds me of some of Mary Kassian’s ‘beware of the 1960’s feminist’ speeches. Sigh. You won’t reach people by mocking them in this fashion, or don’t you get them to think about things with this approach. They blow you off as a bully, and blow hard.

What I have noticed is if you don’t accept the ‘biblical’ gender roles they teach? You fit into the stereotype they have for the culture – and in their eyes the ‘norm’ above. They will tell you that you don’t get the gospel right. You might get part of it, but they will remind you that you aren’t ‘getting’ the whole picture. I’m not so sure anyone does, but that is for another DAY!

I guess the book is an introduction into the next generation of Complementarians. I have written about Owen Strachan before when he had a bit of hissie over a Sesame street character playing with a doll. Baby Bear wanted to play ‘father’ to the doll, and he was showing how that wasn’t a masculine presentation. It was just downright odd.

Why do people seem to think talking down to their audience, and then using extreme examples that most can’t relate to could in ANYWAY find a new audience? I mean they sprinkle a little bit of truth with a bunch of bullsh*t on top, and wonder why the masses aren’t getting it. Why don’t they? Seriously?!

Grant Layman, "No we didn't call the police!"

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Sat, 17 May 2014 14:47:00 -0500

A Christian leader, charged with any credible, serious, and direct wrongdoing, would usually be well advised to step down from public ministry. No such accusation of direct wrongdoing was ever made against C. J. Mahaney. Instead, he was charged with founding a ministry and for teaching doctrines and principles that are held to be true by vast millions of American evangelicals.

The above quote is included in the support letter of CJ Mahaney after parts of a lawsuit were dropped against Mahaney and his church due to the Statue of Limitations. Translation? According to the law they waited to long to file.

Many states are changing these laws, because adult survivors should have their day in court against the person that harmed them. Some states have already changed the timeline. I think the movement to change it is growing in other states to thankfully.

Sadly, what should have been a moment of transparency turned into a spiritual version of ‘Not Guilty’ for CJ Mahaney by his many Celebrity Pastor Friends. What I never did understand is they KNEW that parts of the lawsuit was going forward, and if they couldn’t see the bias in the above statement? Their discernments skills are WAY off.

To me it showed the habitual snarky attitude they tend to use when people question their belief systems, personal values, etc. They preach about humility, benevolent leadership and authority. I do question how people can’t see the hypocrisy at times.

You don’t use a political spin when transparency is clearly needed. This is why many question their sense of ‘biblical authority’, and all that jazz. They are supposed to be ‘mature believers’, and in their rush to say SOMETHING? They basically put their foot in their mouths instead.

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Sovereign Grace Ministries Scandal and Conviction

This week: Nathaniel Morales, 56, who most recently served as a pastor in Las Vegas, was convicted of three counts of sexual abuse of a minor and two counts of sexual offense by a jury in Montgomery County, Md. He will be sentenced Aug. 14 and faces up to 85 years in prison.

Nate Morales is going to trial soon stemming from additional accusations from others as well.

Just to fill in a little history…..

Sovereign Grace Ministries has been described as a family of churches, and Covenant Life was the Flagship Church until 2012. In layman’s terms? The Corporate Headquarters. Shortly after the lawsuit surfaced - if I remember correctly - Covenant Life voted to remove themselves from Sovereign Grace Ministries family of churches. They were not the only church either.

Nathaniel Morales used to be part of this Covenant Life church before he moved to Las Vegas, and was part of the lawsuit that the Brotherhood of Celebrity Pastors SPOKE against.

This week Covenant Life’s longtime executive pastor Grant Layman testified that he should have reported alleged abuse to police but did not. Grant just happens to be CJ Mahaney’s brother in law, and worked with CJ Mahaney in leadership at this church during the time the abuse happened. Grant recently left his position at the church, and now works in some sort of paint business.

Nate Morales was part of CJ Mahaney’s church (Covenant Life), and he and his church were accused of knowing about the attacks towards children there. They basically dealt with it internally – as in did nothing about it. You can read they felt it was their Constitutional right to do it that way as well in the document I have uploaded.

Keep in mind I uploaded the ‘revised’ statement. They felt that the lawsuit harmed their ‘confidentially’ with their members. I guess despite KNOWING its their lawful responsibility as a mandated reporter to also contact law enforcement.

The new statement on the ministry website said allowing the courts to second-guess a church’s pastoral guidance “would represent a blow to the First Amendment that would hinder, not help, families seeking spiritual direction among other resources in dealing with the trauma related to any sin including child sexual abuse.”

“Child sexual abuse is reprehensible in any circumstance, and a violation of fundamental human dignity,” the statement said. “We grieve deeply for any child who has been a victim of abuse. SGM encourages pastors from its associated churches to minister the love, grace and healing of God to any who have suffered this horrific act.”

Spiritual Slang for, “I shouldn’t have to report we are handling it just fine in house!’

Keep in mind it was noted in court that they claimed they would ‘take care of it’ (ie the predator), and yet the habitual sexual abuse by Nate Morales continued. I suppose your not to question their ‘spiritual direction’ there huh?

You have to wonder now if Grant Layman – along with others will be charged with NOT reporting this to the police. My prediction? They will throw him under the bus as far as blame goes. WELL until more evidence surfaces, and the story will change again.

If you remember back a couple of years we spoke about the Tina Anderson trial, and how her pastor Chuck Phelps did call the police…but then basically blew them off when they wanted to do an interview with him over his ‘mandatory’ report.

So, he followed the law legally but his actions MORALLY? Not so much. Chuck Phelps actually blamed the police, because he claims he didn’t receive any follow up. They showed in court that they did, but you know how that goes…..

The spirit of WHY this law was enacted is lost on them. Makes you question their pastoral ‘wisdom’ doesn’t it? This is what happens when they feel their biblical authority trumps what they don’t wish to face.

Now, we have a church that had to admit IN COURT they didn’t even bother calling the police at all.

Grant Layman was sworn in next. Under oath he told the jury he did not report the crimes told him by Scott and Charlene Bates in 1992 that were committed by Morales against their son, Samuel Bates. He also stated that within one year, he learned of the sexual abuse of Brian Wolohan and did not report it to the police either.

Under cross examination by the Defense Attorney Drew (which was surprising), he was asked “Did you have a responsibility to report to police” the crimes committed against Samuel Bates and Brian Wolohan. To this Layman said, “I believe so.” Drew responded, “Did you report to police?” Layman answered, “I didn’t do it.”

It should be interesting to watch HOW the group of celebrity pastor’s explain how their friend and head pastor of the church in question STILL had no clue about this. How the lawsuit was over his teaching and doctrine. Please.

1 John 3:18 Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

No Comment From The Together for Mahaney Crowd?

I find it curious that Al Mohler, John Piper, and the rest of the celebrity Pastor group has not released one statement since the conviction this week. They sure did RUSH to judgment when parts of the lawsuit were denied due to the Statue of Limitations.

In other news: The Southern Baptist Task Force released their report about declining membership and baptism numbers this week. Many are claiming this downward spiral is the fruit of ‘our spiritual lukewarmness’.

What is sadder is what happened this week (conviction of Nate Morales), and the often the insensitivity and callousness of their responses. Does that even enter their minds?

Hmmm…

This not the nasty way they deal with abuse within the church.
Its not the ugly names they call people that don’t believe as they do.
Its not the attacks on so called, ‘feminists’ who are more likely a group that disagrees with their role theory.
Its not the awful approach to homosexuality…

..NOPE its just lukewarmness. I guess they feel their nastiness isn’t nasty enough.

Who would wish to enter their churches, be baptized by their pastors, and be encouraged to follow their band of celebrity pastors who allows one of their ‘friends’ to enable a child predator.

In reality is their coldness towards humanity. Their indifference towards the reality of some families life’s. Their stuffy attitude towards those they feel aren’t the ‘chosen’ ones. Its their empty words and actions that I call spiritual pixie dust.

They wouldn’t know how to reach the world if their life’s depended on it.

Yep, and I did I mention they call that ‘love’.

Matthew 21:28-32

“What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ And he answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind and went. And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him.

Additional Resources:

BrentDetwiler.com

GRACE (Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment)

Brief History of Sovereign Grace Ministries

Copy of Lawsuit in Question

Why Sovereign Grace Ministries Doesn’t Like Victims

An Example of the Anatomy and Physiology of Spiritual Abuse: Mahaney, T4G and the Gospel Coalition

Women: The indirect, mediated and derivative of Male?

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 10:23:00 -0500

I wanted to talk about the Petition that is on Change.org (I was told this site has issues with FireFox), and I wanted you to know WHY I signed it. It has nothing to do with the debate over Egalitarians versus Complementarians. Its about the meanings behind the teachings I see that are presented much differently than most seem to think.

I have no doubt some may find the language rather harsh, but when I researched some of the messages of their mantra (CBMW) – equal in worth, but differing roles – I found it to be very deceptive. I found it ugly and insulting, and I can’t believe in this day and age people truly have this starting point of belief towards their fellow humans. It’s the not ‘differing roles’ so much as their definition of ‘equal in worth’. We will discuss today what they mean by that.

First, lets start out on a positive note!

I heard a very inspiring video this morning by Pakistani educator Ziauddin Yousafzai. He stated in the video that in his country men are known by their sons, but in his case he is known by his daughter. For this he is proud.

"Malala used to be known as my daughter, but now I’m known as her father," he said to the crowd. "In patriarchal societies, fathers are known by their sons. I am known by my daughter and proud of it."

Its true that people around the world know his daughter's name, and were shocked when she was shot in the face a point blank range just for going to school. Most people know who Malala is. Unlike many from her country this girl is a sense of pride for her family.

As you listen to his video you realize how badly women are viewed, and they are not looked at as a fellow humans. Their society teaches girls from a very young age that their main responsibility is obedience. They must be silent, meek and submissive. She is not allowed to be an individual, because she will be looked upon as disobedient.

If she crosses some imagery line its perfectly acceptable for the men to kill her to save their honor. Her obedience is her reflection of worth. Lack of that obedience brings dishonor, and justification for the harm that comes to her.

If you think about that for a moment? They must do some major mind gymnastics to view her as something other than 100% human. If they can't view her as subhuman? They may not be able to do the things we read about that happens to women in that part of the world. They are able to separate the humanity in her, and that not only harms her…but everyone in her life and society.

Thankfully, in my part of the world this cultural mindset is not acceptable. Her father is a breath of fresh air, and I have no doubt his daughter is also proud of him.

What I do object is in my part of the world is being told that I am a derivative form of human. I may have equal worth, but due to my derivative form I have differing roles in life. Obedience to that teaching – we are told – is within God’s will.

If I can NOT accept their teaching of my creation I am labeled; Feminist, Jezebel, Harlot, Witch, etc.

I am told that I don’t know the difference between male and female, and that I wish to melt the genders together to have an genderless society. That is perfectly okay for the male not knowing how to be male, and woman not knowing how to be female. Yeah – okay then. We are after genderless blobs right?

No. That’s not it at all. I don’t wish to be viewed as some indirect image of God, and some derivative form of male.

I know what your thinking! WOW, Hannah that is kind of out there isn’t it? Yeah, it is OUT THERE yet that is what is TAUGHT! Let’s look at a quote off their website, and the speaker is Bruce Ware:

priority given to the man

When you can view the other gender as a byproduct of yourself? An indirect, mediated, derivative form of human? That is how its perfectly acceptable to say some of the awful things we hear, because it is taught that the male is the OEM (original equipment manufacturer) of the human race.

Being the OEM the – direct, unmediated form of human – its easier to view the Non OEM partner as they do. Yes, they say but the OEM and Non OEM are both loved equally by God. Yet, you need to remember that God intended priority to the OEM…not the derivative. That’s according to quote above.

Let’s look at a couple of verses from Genesis 1. This was before God took the rib out of Adam.

26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
or
Genesis 5:2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

Notice the language in Genesis I states “US” not me. Of “THEM” not male, and his indirect, derivative form of helper.

Just like in Malala’s country when you are brought up from cradle to grave under the belief system that females are NON OEM brand human compared to males? You can be justified in thinking you have headship and authority, because you are told you have PRIORITY over others.

In this way, you can justify in your mind that obedience to your biblical role acknowledges your worth.

Ziauddin Yousafzai said he taught girls to ‘unlearn’ the lesson of obedience, because of their meaning of the word and all it entailed.

Today, I pointed out the meaning of the phrase ‘equal in worth’. You need to make the decision yourself if that definition of ‘equal in worth’ is acceptable.

Please consider signing the petition on Change.org. (The website I am told has a hard time with the firefox browser, so please use other one. ie: Chrome, Internet Explorer, etc) Add your name to list of humans that want the world to know that female is not the NON OEM brand of human.

In closing, a quote from Ziauddin Yousafzai:
People ask me what is special is in my mentorship which has made Malala so bold and courageous and vocal and poised? I tell them, “Don't ask me what I did. Ask me what I did not do. I did not clip her wings….and that's all.

Additional Reading:
News Story about this Petition: Petition asks gender-role group to repent
Petition to Demand for an Apology from CBMW – by Shirley Taylor
Why Protesting "Equal But Subordinate" is Not Just Me Having a Problem with Authority
Petition CBMW for an Apology Along with Me, for the Sake of Liberty and Love

Headship in Heaven–Part two

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 15:32:00 -0500

When I wrote to you last time about an article CBMW put up regarding ‘Headship is Heaven’? People from all over the internet were talking about how the article went offline after some serious criticism of the opinion given in the article itself. It wasn’t so much that the website no longer showed the article, but the substance within the article that was seriously troubling.

Since that time Associate Baptist Press took up the story, and went into more details about the troubling nature of the content of the article. The fact that the article was taken down? It was more of a side note, as you can read for yourself in:

Pastor says male/female roles will continue in heaven

Owen Strachan, executive director of the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW) responded finally to the uproar over the article. Unfortunately, he didn’t address the concerns about the article itself. Instead, he complained that it was website glitch, and mentioned a ‘standing tendency on the part of a small group of anti-CBMW folks to misconstrue our motives’

Below are the bullet points he felt were ‘misinterpreted’

1st paragraph: “…article posted online recently…” (His point was the article is rather old, and was reprinted)

2nd Paragraph: “A 7,000-word article… apparently was taken down” (website glitch)

5th to last paragraph: “the group’s executive director said in a blog post…” (He was saying that week’s article had nothing to do with the website glitch, and yet that wasn’t the context of what Bob Allen said either.)

3rd to last paragraph: “Denny Burk, associate professor of biblical studies and ethics at Boyce College, is the Journal for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood editor.” (His point was Denny Burk wasn’t even there at the time the article was written. Bob Allen never said he was, and again took what was said out of context.)

So for whatever reason he deflected the controversy over to something that really had nothing to do with it. The Bob Allen of the Associate Baptist Press wrote a follow up article, Director of gender-roles council denies scrubbing article.

Shortly there after the article in question was back online, but concerns about the article itself? Still go unanswered.

Twitter / ostrachan: Unfortunately, @abp_rh relied ... via kwout

It seems Owen wants people to believe that all that happened was over a website that went down, and what I think many of these organizations are struggling with? People will actually check out what you are talking about (not always, but enough of them), and in the past you were not really able to do that.

Now that people are able to check out issues on the internet? These deflections aren’t as powerful as they used to be, and labeling others as ‘anti-CBMW folks to misconstrue our motives’ DUE to these concerns is deceptive. WHY they feel this type of thing is acceptable? I have no idea. Their denial is either too strong, or they are hoping against hope that the past ways still work.

It’s been an interesting year so far I must say. It seems other types of faith organizations are having some of the same base problems. They were able in the past to control what information was given, and find ways of removing people that they felt caused friction.

They made people feel they were the only ones that questions things, and made them feel it was themselves that was in fact ‘bitter’ or any host of labels that were powerful enough to use.

Thankfully, some of these organizations seem to be imploding due to their own deception and lies from the past. No doubt they never saw it coming, and even as the rise of the bloggers came…they still ignored things.

I was actually surprised to find – despite the presence of CMBW – people are now speaking with their wallets as far as support. CBE (Christians for Biblical Equality) seems to be beating the pants off them as you can see over at Wartsburg Watch, and their article that speaks about the finances. It seems all their speeches about ‘equality’ being ‘sameness’ isn't going over to well anymore I guess.

What’s even sweeter? All the people that have been hurt by these organizations, and the beliefs systems that were rammed down their throats? They aren’t alone anymore, and are finding many voices telling similar stories.

To them it is a fight for their belief system. In the case of CBMW? The validity of their gender roles or complementarian belief as opposed to the wicked ‘feminist’ organization CBE or egalitarians.

To me its NOT about the labels of egalitarian, complementarian, etc. I’m just Christian, and I don’t do labels for my own life. I threw away those boxes many years ago. To me its about justice for all humans – man and female.

We voice a demand because all previous petitions have been ignored. We cry out for justice for all those who have suffered, directly and indirectly.

A petition started this week on Change.org that over a 100 hundred people so far have signed regarding what I feel is injustice towards humanity.

It’s a petition worth checking out, and I have signed myself. Read the comments, and you will find you are not alone either.

Additional Interesting Reading:

Freecwc - Why Men and Women are signing our petition at Change.org

CBMW's Problematic Doctrine of God

CBMW, Spiritual Sounding Board, and “Eternal Headship”? A look at whether such a policy exists – The author notes a different view about this issue from CBMW from an another article they wrote.

Eternal Patriarchy? The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood says, “You Bet!” A reply to Mark David Walton's article on male and female roles in Heaven

Headship in Heaven–According to CBMW

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:12:00 -0500

What is 'Sameness'? I read a paper written by pastor Mark David Walton that tends to have complementarian leanings, and I have a REALLY hard time wrapping my mind around where he comes up with some of the 'conclusions'.

He needed to start by pointing out the differences between his way of believing, and of course egalitarians. As you might have guessed the ‘sameness’ concept came up.

The pastor wanted to present his opinions on, Roles and Relationships in New Creation. Yet, it seems CBMW decided they would take the article down, and my picture above is what you find now.

NO fear! Hannah grabbed a ‘cache’ shot from the internet, and its STILL available. Here you GO! At the beginning of the article he mentions a previous one that he wrote, and I guess this article is a follow up for it. Here is the original article. What We Shall Be: A Look at Gender and the New Creation By: Mark David Walton

What was he discussing?

Will there be ‘headship’ in heaven? Will the roles still be present? WELL – according to them – OF course there will be!

Since we will be in the presence of God – the ultimate authority – it would seem strange as too WHY this portion of their role would even be needed if we were honest about it. (sarcasm mode on) I guess they don’t feel God would take this away from them in Heaven like they feel today’s feminist’s have! (end of sarcasm)

Below is a quote from the author, and the BLUE text is a source he quoted from. His quotes are from a man named, Randy Alcorn. I haven’t figure out how to ‘double quote’ within Windows Live Writer yet! Sorry about that!

Feminists, both secular and evangelical, define equality in terms of functionality rather than ontologically-on the basis of being. They err by effectively reducing equality to "sameness,"11 and in so doing embrace one of liberalism's foundational concepts, namely, that parity is the social ideal.12 We can be certain, however, that the new creation will be characterized, not by sameness but by incredible diversity-diversity of abilities, diversity of gifts, and diversity of rewards. Alcorn, addressing the question of equality in the new creation, merits inclusion here:
All people are equal in worth, but they differ in gifting and performance. . . . Because God promises to reward people differently according to their differing levels of faithfulness in this life, we should not expect equality of possessions and positions. . . . There's no reason to believe we'll all be equally tall or strong or that we'll have the same gifts, talents, or intellectual capacities. If we all had the same gifts, they wouldn't be special. If you can do some things better than I can, and I than you, then we'll have something to offer each other. . . . diversity-not conformity-characterizes a perfect world.13
The new creation will, indeed, be a place where equality reigns-but not as feminists define the term. It will be equality as biblically defined, equality that has its basis in divinely established human worth.

I have yet to run into one human that felt equality was: equally tall, strong, everyone having the same gifts, talents or intellectual capacities. The blue quote is from Randy Alcorn, whom is another person that has rather out there views of Egalitarians. I will get to him later.

So I was a bit perplexed as to what 'feminist' he has ran into, spoken to, or read their material that stated that humans must be the above in order to have equality.

You notice the man doesn't reference any 'feminist' that stated this either. Nope! If you check the footnotes in the above quote? They all come from the same source – CBMW authors, and friends of the complementarian belief system.

It always amazed me that people could 'grasp' the concept during civil rights movement that minorities wanted people to acknowledge that all humans are equal. One race of people did not have more 'worth' than they other. That one race shouldn't be barred from something due to their race. There were many other issues, and we all know them.

The point is it has nothing to do with this author's definition of 'sameness'.

If I were guessing? Chances are pretty STRONG this man understands what the civil rights definition of equality is, and how it had nothing to do with 'sameness'.

Funny, when it comes to 'women' in the church wanting a sense of equality? These men pretend to be morons. They are just incapable of making the connection due to their 'mental age'.

JUST to be clear what my definition of the word moron is? I'll quote from a dictionary online:

"Moron" was coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard[3] from the Ancient Greek word μωρός (moros), which meant "dull"[4] (as opposed to oxy, which meant "sharp" (see also: oxymoron)), and used to describe a person with a mental age in adulthood of between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale.[5] It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51–70, being superior in one degree to "imbecile" (IQ of 26–50) and superior in two degrees to "idiot" (IQ of 0–25). The word moron, along with others including, "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists.[6]

I have to be frank here! I have a feeling this 'moron' state is pretty conditional, because I have no doubt in my mind their mental age is higher than 8-12 years old. Yet, for some reason they feel the need to lower it in order to make their point.

WHY that is the logical or a rational approach to presenting your point of view? Your guess is as good as mine!

I mean anyone with a brain can figure out that 'sameness' per his description isn't humanly possible. Everyone with the ‘same’ everything?!

I mean it doesn't even make sense.

As far as 'ontologically"? Let's define what Ontology means.

1: a branch of metaphysics concerned with the nature and relations of being
2: a particular theory about the nature of being or the kinds of things that have existence

So, I would gather that the author seems to feel that when 'humans' (correction - only FEMINST humans) speak of equality they only refer to 'functionality' – per his ‘factual’ footnotes. Remember the ones from CBMW.

They (Feminists, both secular and evangelical) don't use the same dictionary? (shrugs) I guess not. No footnote for that source? OH well! I guess being a ‘biblical authority’ we should take his word for it right?!

I mean where is the common dictionary that defines this as 'the study of functionality'? He didn't link to it, and he should to support his point.

Here is another thing!

I have no idea how that ties into the concept of everyone being 'equally tall' or 'equally strong'. Feminist or not it doesn't take a genius to figure out that isn't possible.

Call me crazy but what has tallness or strength have to do with 'functionality' anyway? Can someone connect the dots for me? I'm lost.

I have no doubt there are some that will buy into what he has to say, and are completely baffled by 'those' that think like this. Honestly? I would be too. It doesn’t make any sense.

I suppose if I tried hard enough I could go out and find someone that thinks like that. Yet, since they are not mainstream I don't see the point of wasting my time. The bigger problem as I see it is the claim this type of person IS mainstream!

Where is the evidence of this? WELL besides their footnotes to CMBW, and other complementarian sources? None.

I mean I could pick some whack a doddle that is complementarian, and present it as 'mainstream'...but it doesn't make it so!

Sadly, what it really shows is the 'agenda'. Below is a quote from an egalitarian after hearing Randy Alcorn tell you about ‘egalitarians’.

Aside from Randy Alcorn’s blatant misrepresentation of biblical egalitarians (Good grief! No biblical egalitarian claims God the Father submits to God the Son! The issue is whether or not the Son is eternally subordinate or temporally subordinate to the Father during his incarnation.), this buffoonery is inexcusable from otherwise educated men!

I took that quote from this blog, He was commenting from a brief video presentation from YOU guess it ‘friends of CBMW’!

What they do NOT understand is its not that hard today to seek out their 'claims' towards the other side of the debate.

They only thing they count on is from most people? Is to NOT check it out for themselves to see if it is true. They pretty much expect that since they present themselves as the 'biblical authority'. If you get down to the footnotes – which most people won’t – they might be surprised as to WHERE they are getting this information from. Yep, their preacher buddies!

I have to be frank here.

When people feel the need to be so disingenuous, and also to outright misrepresent the other side of things? It makes me leary of them, and quite frankly trust is throw right out the window.

Its sad, because on other fronts they are extremely knowledgeable...and you can indeed learn from them.

Yet, when they act so childish towards others? You are less likely to read anything they have to say at all.

The strange thing is that I have heard some of the extremists from that side state they would LOVE to sit down, and talk - instead of throwing barbs back and forth.

I honestly think that would be very hard to do when they don't even seem to grasp what egalitarians actually stand for, believe, and what their definition of equality means.

I mean I just can't see them admitting they have misrepresented things first, and they would have to before any discussion starts.

This is why I feel the debates within the Christian community don't seem to happen so their can be some sort of reconciliation.

If you can’t get past this? There is NO WAY they can convince me – or any other rational person that there is ‘headship in heaven’.

Yes, his theory is very disturbing. Below are other links actually discussing the articles:

A letter to our sisters, on biblical womanhood in heavenly places

Is the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood Drinking Mormon-Flavored Koolaid?

Christian Gender Complementarian Group Teaching That There Will Be Marriage in Afterlife and That Women Must Submit To Males in Heaven

We CALL OUT SIN here…well except for our own.

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:18:00 -0500

I read an article today called, ‘Sharing Cake with Prostitutes and Gay Couples, Alike’.

There was a video attached to the article, and I have to tell you this man was very entertaining!

The Whore’s Birthday Party

You notice each time you mention to uppity Christians that their approach to things at times isn’t very attractive they get all bent out of shape?

He called them the Country Club Christians, and he has a point. Its an attitude more than ‘literally’ being part of a Country club…yet (snickers) you know they will mention that don’t belong to one anyway.

You have a lady that no doubt has been used and abused all of her life, and if I were guessing someone that never knew love, compassion, or experienced any true empathy. Yet, the owners of the diner he went to that night mentioned what a nice person she is. Despite what profession she has? What a GOOD person she is.

The Pastor above brought decorations, and the diner baked a birthday cake for the next night when she came for her break at 3:30 in the morning. The owner of the diner had a wife, and she sent out WORD that they were going to Celebrate Agnes’s Birthday. She had quite a crowd that came to join her.

At the end of the story she (Agnes) didn’t want to cut her cake, but wanted to bring it 2 doors down first to show it to her mother. She would be back, but she wanted her mother to see it first. As we know from the story she never had a birthday celebration her entire life.

What they didn’t go into in the video that I can see happening? She went to show her mother the cake that she was so proud of, and in return her mother gave her some nasty response. Yes, similar to her friend’s response in the story when she mentioned she never had a Birthday party in her life.

Why would they do that for you? What, now you are all ‘special’ because someone BAKED you a cake? Did they cough up cash as presents since they took time away from your job to do this? If they didn’t give you cash for your time…it was a waste of time.

Anyone else familiar with this attitude? Someone that wants to take the wind out of your sails?

Now the Country Club Christians would be quick to mention that ‘Christian’ parents would never be that cruel.

Sure, maybe they wouldn’t be that cruel to their children…but what about to Agnes (the prostitute)? Notice their response had NOTHING to do with her. Sadly, it has to everything to do with THEM…instead.

Now lets read what he said at the end of the video. She had just left to go to her mother, and there was a uncomfortable silence…and he began to pray:

….and I prayed that God would make her new because we are here to declare the good news. That no matter where you have been, or what you have done Jesus can make you new.

When I finished the prayer, Harry (owner of the diner) leaned across the counter and said,

“HEY Campolo you told us you were a sociologist. YOUR a PREACHER! What kind of church you preach in?”

And in one of those moments when you come up with JUST the right words...

I said, “I preach at a church that throws birthday parties for whores at 3:30 in the morning!”

I never forget his response. NEVER!

He said, “NO you DON'T, Nahh you don't.”

He said, “I would JOIN a church like THAT!”

Wouldn't we all??

Wouldn't we all LOVE to join a church that threw Birthday Parties for whores at 3:30 in the morning!

I got news for YOU! I GOT NEWS FOR YOU!

That is the kind of church that Jesus came to create! I don't know where we came up with this one that is 1/2 country club!

Jesus came to create a people that would give people parties that have no parties! Celebration into the lifes that have NOTHING TO CELEBRATE!

If all you got to offer a bowl of soup and some clothes ...its not enough. Jesus came and said that my joy might be in YOU! and that your JOY might be FULL! And we must do more than just give them bread and some clothes.

We have to bring love and joy into their lifes.

Now, notice at times when people bring home a HUGE point like he has? They will be begin to tear him down. You know like the media does towards politics they don’t like?!

His confession of faith isn’t just right. He believes this, and we all know THAT is wrong! What he says about Jesus on other issues is wrong…YOU know the drill! He must be one of ‘those’.

They divert the point that he made that was correct, and figured out ways of discrediting him instead. They find something about him they disagree with, and just assume everything that comes out of his mouth from then on…is wrong too.

Here is one comment about the video that tends to make the point stronger:

don't think anyone would refute the notion that prostitutes' birthdays are valid.
Furthermore, if a prostitute announced, in church, that she had accepted the Lord Jesus as her savior on Sunday, but sold her body to a strange man on Saturday night, are we to believe that her confession was genuine? Does that church have the right and/or the responsibility to perform biblical church discipline or to reject her as a member?
Finally, if I claim that homosexuality is not a sin, must I then also claim that prostitution is not a sin?

Notice the poster went down a LONG whining road that has NOTHING to do with the point that was made? Matter of fact it better much ‘validated’ it.

He was willing to give a prostitute some bread – by allowing her the opportunity to accept Jesus…yet was not willing to do more. No, reminding us that he has the RIGHT or RESPONSIBILITY to perform discipline…and reject her is a MUCH more the important point. HE MUST be able to call out SIN, but what about finding ways to bring love and joy?

That extra step beyond the bread is so important, and it SHOULD be so in your face OBVIOUS too. Yet, getting defensive and showing our country club attitude is the response instead. Next, they will claim that ISN’T what is keeping people from the Lord’s house!

Notice that this ‘Christian’ did the same thing her mother did in my example.

Why would I do that for you? What, now you are all ‘special’ because you accepted Jesus as your Savior? Did you stop sleeping with strange men on Saturday? I have the biblical RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY to perform church discipline, and reject you as a member. YOU were a waste of time, because we call SIN out here.

Nice right?

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

New International Version (NIV)

⁴Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

⁸Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

The Long Goodbye

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:20:00 -0600

Once or twice a week I go and feed my mother lunch. Most of the time I fight myself to go more often…and I do…then I don’t…THEN I DO!

On occasion I see a small glimpse of her with a facial expression, smile, or movement. Memories of our past are front and center, and then reality sets in for me.

She will talk to me, but doesn’t make any sense. Majority of the time she is in her own little world that Alzheimer’s created for her. You can only get a glimpse of her early in the day, and pretty much nothing after lunch.

She used to belong to the group that would wander the halls, and check out all the spaces her unit had to offer. Most people feel bad about the confinement they live in, but you do notice once you bring them to some place new? Their fear that you saw at the beginning of the progression of the disease quickly returns.

The stress they have at that moment makes you realize what we see as ‘confinement’ makes them feel safer. It’s not confinement to them at all… but the warmth of home.

It was plain at the beginning when mother would have a hard time finishing a sentence, or even spitting one out. I would help her along by assuming where she was going in the conversation, and gently help her continue. The days of deep conversation were over.

I would laugh at myself when speaking of the aspect of human forgetfulness we have all experienced, but this time it was to ease her frustration and fear with her own. These things helped a little, but I know both of us were still scared to death.

It was the first step of our journey of The Long Goodbye.

The words of wisdom or comfort – or heck even general conversation would slowly be removed forever. She will stare off into space now, and if she acknowledges you? She will give you her gentle smile that you remember, but the person you once knew just isn’t there anymore.

I could tell by how wobbly she was getting it was just a matter of time before she fell. Yes, she was starting to lose that ability to walk the halls and to investigate every inch of the unit. What we all take for granted was also slowly being taken from her. At first she knew what to do even as it became harder as she would sway or bobble. She would slow down, and then speed up – and slow down again.

We had a routine at lunch. I would try to keep her seated long enough for her to finish her lunch, but once we were done? She would grab my hand, and she would pull me up and down the hallway. In and out of the rooms in her part of the building, and maybe even touching furniture or items left out.

The attention span was less and less, and it just turned into an endless wander. After a while she would let go of my hand, and I knew at that point she wouldn’t miss me if I left. I wasn’t with her anymore, nor did I exist.

Just another part of The Long Goodbye.

Mother’s fall did happen, and she fractured her hip. We had to make the decision to allow it to heal naturally, because a trip to the hospital for surgery at this point would be too traumatic for her.

The morphine would keep her sleepy, and that urge to wander was stifled by it…and of course the pain.

Normally, physical therapy will help a person bounce back to a point. Yet, mother at this time has to be reminded to swallow her food or drink. She can’t feed herself anymore, and much of time she really doesn't understand what is going on around her. She is incapable of learning to use walker, or cane. I do see her trying to get out of her wheelchair on occasion.

You have the urge to want to help her out of that wheelchair, because you know that desire to wander is back. You have to pull yourself back, because you know she will fall again. It might even be worse this time, because the ability to balance is gone.

They keep her in a special wheelchair that helps her balance to be upright in the chair, and I long for her to be like some of the other patients…that use their feet in the wheelchairs to wander up and down the halls like she used too.

It breaks your heart knowing that the world of Alzheimer’s has taken her in more deeply, and she has lost the ability to learn the very basics of the wheelchair. So she sits, smiles, and makes her nonsense conversations. Most of the time she is just silent.

Just another part of the Long Goodbye.

I once had small glimpses of her every now and again, but it truly is never there anymore. She looks at my face and smiles, but she could never tell you who I was. She meets you a little and then she is gone within seconds.

I notice I’m one of the few visitors her section really gets. I’m NOT going to tell you it isn’t painful each time I visit, but I know my mother wouldn’t leave me there alone. I push myself, and most days I do just fine.

Don’t get me wrong, because I know why visitors aren’t there. I fight the urge myself every single visit! It’s hard to watch someone that once loved you look right past you. They don’t know if you were there or not to be honest. Their existence is far beyond what I’m capable of grasping, because they are in their own little world. You have to go the world of Alzheimer's, because they can’t come to your world anymore in anyway.

At times when I leave I go cry in the parking lot, or stop along the road on the way home. Then there are the days in which my mood just goes right into the ditch, and I can’t seem to pull myself out. My mother just isn’t there anymore. She is just a shell at this point. Yes, dead in way. Yet, you aren’t really allowed the cycle of mourning yet…because she isn’t really dead literally. The shell is still there, and the long goodbye is even longer.

Mother has been slowly but surely losing weight, and I know something will happen soon – even if its minor to majority of us. She will not have the ability to fight in sense we all can relate to, and then Alzheimer’s will finally have to let go. God will take over, and bring her home.

It’s been a long and painful goodbye. I hope most don’t blame me, but I hope God takes her soon. The visits are getting harder, and I can’t even explain the feeling you get when you watch your mother lose the ability to shallow. When she loses the ability to know whom she is when you call out her name.

One thing I did for myself? I had them color her hair. Mother was always one that was well kept, and groomed. (The hair, makeup, clothes – shoes and purse to match.) She used to LOVE to get her hair done, but it was uncomfortable this time. Yet, the hair color warmed up her face in such a way it made me more comfortable for HER! She was beautiful!

She once was the person that told you no one (meaning me) shouldn't go anywhere without her face on (expression meaning makeup, hair, etc), and I guess that is the last portion of control I have to hold on too. Everything else just slips through your fingers forever.

Another Step in The Long Goodbye

Did you know that they don’t know what causes Dementia or Alzheimer’s? They don’t even have anything to slow the progression of the disease. For as widespread as it is they know next to nothing about it.

There is a too much fear and stigma surrounding this disease, and what truly hurt? Seth Rogen this week made an Opening Statement before a Senate hearing on Alzheimer's Research, and only 2 senators showed up to hear him.

It’s similar to the amount of visitors that the Alzheimer’s unit gets. Sadly, I know why family doesn't come…its very painful. It tears your heart out to watch them.

What I don’t understand is those with the power that can help and influence much needed research and support don’t show up. Why bother calling a hearing at all?

Hilarity for Charity
Alzheimer's Association
Alzheimer's reading room

Olympic Lesson or Spiritually Correct Rudeness

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:02:00 -0600

I read something on Desiring God that to me seemed like nothing more than a propaganda piece, and it truly shows how some will only see what they want too. In the meantime, WHY not throw a couple of barbs towards the other side just for good measure.

It has always amazed me how some can come across as so soft and sweet on the surface, and then you feel their whip of mockery towards others as a show of some TRUE gift they feel they have.

As you read the piece, you learn why it is so hard to speak to them. It also reminds me why I find it so hard to trust, or even respect their views at times as much as I try.

To me quite frankly…they aren’t safe people to be around. I don’t care how much they use the word biblical, or Godly to describe the individuals that represent them. When you read articles like this? Its so far off the ‘biblical’ map that is quite amazing that they don’t see it too!.

My parents always taught me that individuals that take time out of their day to tear you down just so they can feel uplifted…aren't’ decent people you should spend time with.

It reminds me of the political realm we have presently within the United States. You question one portion of what the other side is proposing, or how they are approaching it? You labeled a hater of the group of individuals that the program was drafted to help.

They all do it today, because it seems popular within the atmosphere we have presently. Is it any wonder why its almost impossible to find that middle ground somewhere? They have too many excuses that they allow themselves…not too. Then WE The People get to live that reality.

Below is example of this that I truly felt was off color. Groups of Christians are labeled with what they TRULY stand for…well in their eyes of course. To me, it would hard to explain how this in any way shows, “Mature Masculinity’ of the benevolent kind.

It’s an Art Form
They do not fight for equality on the ice; they possess it as a given. They are not jostling about fairness. They are focused on doing their part well. No one yells, “Oppressor!” as he leads her around the arena, lifting her up and catapulting her into a triple spin. No one thinks she is belittled as she takes her lead from him, skating backwards to his forward. No one calls for them to be egalitarian. “She should get to throw him into a triple Lutz half the time!” They complement each other in their complementarian approach to becoming one majestic whole. No one, least of all him, minds that the roses and teddy bears, thrown onto the ice when they have collapsed into each other’s arms at the end, are for her. It is his joy.
This is a visible model of what male leadership and female support are all about. It’s an art form, not a mandate. It’s a disposition, not a set of rules. When it’s done well, it’s a welcome sight in which both partners are fulfilled in themselves and delighted in the other.

If this is all the author has heard from the Egalitarian position? I feel like I’m in the political arena, and the other side is purposely ignoring things so ONLY their opinion can be heard. In this case – he is speaking to his base. Sadly, whipping up the show of mockery that seems acceptable to them.

Look at us compared to THOSE people…Its just so Christian right?!

We have all seen it! The Politian telling their audience THIS IS what my opponent ‘really means’. This is what they REALLY said. This what they REALLY stand for!

Then they go on to point how they have never offered up anything of substance. How WE are the ones that truly represent you. It really doesn’t matter what side of politics you are on – they all say pretty much the same thing.

Then they go off to Washington, and they have to play their game there as well. We at home get to roll our eyes at all the silly politically correct stuff that never truly matches reality…they just try to convince us it does.

Today, it seems popular to be ‘Spiritually Correct’. View your fellow Christians that don’t view things as pink and blue, and turn them into those 1960’s bra burning feminists. Its perfectly acceptable to belittle their women, and mock their beliefs. I mean it’s the Spiritually Correct way.

God gifts us all - everyone of us. We learn from scripture that God is pleased when we use these gifts to gloried him. If you are Christian this is truly something you wish to do as well.

God made us all just a little different. Some may have the same gifts, but the way they use that gift is different. People may have similar styles, but there is always a uniqueness there as well. It seems to me like God made everyone like that.

If we look at leaders? We can find some very effective ones in history, and yet their styles are unique just to them. They may use tactics, forms of speech that similar to past leaders that they admire…yet they are never EVER the ‘same’ or interchangeable.

If we look at teachers? Encouragers? It’s the same thing. Their unique gift is all their own, and they use it to Glorify God in their own way. To me this is a good thing.

In reality of the Olympic Pair Skaters? Their coach is the leader, and both individuals come together with their gifts, strengths, and work ethic to put on a performance that is awesome to watch. They follow the lead of the coach if you truly wish to get down to it, and rely on their partner in more ways than I guess this author can comprehend.

When you look closer? You have many other staff members that work with the skaters, and the energy goes into each individual skater themselves – strength, athletic ability, etc. is honed even before they are paired together. There is so much to see in their performance that is outside the realm of leader and follower.

If being an egalitarian to this author is all about, “She should get to throw him into a triple Lutz half the time!” Its clear he didn’t take the time to listen.

In reality that isn’t a show of MANHOOD, or leadership, authority, headship or any of the other labels you need to use to identify yourself in your ‘role’. It just shows to me anyway your lack of capacity to hear what other’s have to say.

I realize that is the 'SPIRITUALLY correct way, but it really doesn’t show to anyone outside your ‘group’ the traits you claim is there.

Quite frankly, its rude and shows a completely lack of understanding and compassion for others different than yourself.

You want to speak of the oneness we all saw? That’s great! We all saw it! Heck I bet we would even agree there!

You want to use that as a weapon towards others because some strange beliefs you have about how ‘those’ people believe? That’s isn’t okay. It shows an ugly underbelly.

An Olympic Lesson for Husbands and Wives? Hardly. You do get the Gold Metal for rudeness. Congratulations!

Mary Kassian, the Beta Boy Husband, and the gaslight SPECIAL!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:02:00 -0600

Mary Kassian wrote an article about Alpha Woman and Beta Boy: She is pointing out once again how to avoid the mindset that is: celebrated by those who have swallowed the feminist/egalitarian claim that male-female roles are interchangeable.

Mary Kassian article though tends to contradict the teaching itself, and is also short on facts. To me is seems like a good example of gaslighting!

Her teaching speaks about women breadwinners turning their female role into a position of the Alpha power seeker, because of the unnatural balance of income generated. So don’t make more money than your partner, because it shows your possible usurping of his headship. Why? Less income makes the Beta Boy!

(Where do they come up with this stuff??)

Now, she does say woman can have jobs, and make a decent living. Yet, they have to be OH so careful. Then uses examples off another article where even myself felt the women were rather short sighted, and self centered. It seems to be a norm in her examples. She doesn’t like to use everyday women to make her point, but searches out examples most never come into contact with.

Yes, she found a feminist to use as an example of how everyone else lives, believes, and does life outside the complementarian belief system. Its just not realistic for most people, but she uses it anyway.

Mary Kassian’s article is called, “Alpha Woman and Beta Boys’. Her beginning paragraph makes you think she is basing it off a Pew Research Poll based on Breadwinner Moms. The study was based off the rising numbers of women’s incomes, and goes into many factors that are a reality in this world.

Yet, its not based on any power grab that Mary tends to present as the true message, nor interchangeable roles.

According to Pew Poll nearly two-thirds of homes where women are the primary or sole breadwinners are homes headed by single moms, while the other one-third percent are homes where a woman earns more than her husband. Both of these groups have grown dramatically over time.

So, actually the majority of the women in this study? Don’t have a beta boy or husband, so it’s a little misleading.

The second article Mary Kassian was referencing was from a successful older woman, that has a retired husband. I did a little reading about the author herself, and sounds like she was pretty independent for quite a while. She also started her family late in life.

What the author found is even as the bread winner of the family she still finds herself responsible for most of the domestic work around the house as well. Cooking the dinners, planning the Birthday parties, etc. I, myself would also find that rather odd if my circumstance was the same. I mean what does he do with his retirement time?

Now, remember we are speaking of a one third that would be considered having a partner, and we still may not even know their circumstances (disability for example). The ladies the second article references seem to be professional women on the higher ranks of their profession. Most of us – don’t fill that description. So, again it not really relatable.

So using them as a ‘see what I mean ladies’ type of example is rather silly. They aren’t the norm here after all.

Its quite a spin!

Income doesn’t make a person ‘Alpha’

The “Alpha’ personality is normally something people are born with, and its cultivated in life. They naturally tend to take charge, are outgoing, and seek solutions without ‘blaming or whining’ about others not giving them the affirmation that certain people claim they need.

Don’t get me wrong its always nice to hear affirmation, but they don’t ‘need’ it in order to be an Alpha Personality. Their personality is normally that of confidence. They tend to be risk takers, and are successful in life.

Income in that sense may follow of course, but that doesn’t make them the Alpha. The natural confidence is normally the key trait.

That is NOT to say it doesn’t have its negative side, and people don’t push their confidence into power hungry positions. Yet, it doesn’t automatically happen that way either.

From what I have seen in life those ‘power hungry’ positions normally have enablers that hand over this power to them. It can quickly turn into arrogance and conceit.

This is one of the biggest issues non complementarian’s have with their belief system. Yet, one comp’s will claim isn’t present if you ‘do it right’. Forget human nature and all that.

Could be why God doesn’t’ encourage his followers to seek this power to begin with.

Don’t make your husband the Beta

As much as the Complementarians don’t wish for others to view their lists of traits of gender roles in a negative light, and not entirely ‘biblical’? Its not that hard to put the puzzle pieces together with their descriptions, and articles that they write such as this one..

To be perfectly honest? Mary Kassian herself tends to have some ‘alpha’ traits herself, but I doubt she would view that part of her as non feminine. Yet, it’s quite the opposite of what they claim to be feminine. There is nothing wrong with her Alpha traits, because that is how God made her. Its just kind odd if you compare that to what they present as the proper lady.

No doubt her diversion in response is that her husband is the breadwinner. Yet, that doesn’t make any sense in light of the reality of many pastors within their group aren’t the bread winners. Also, it doesn’t address their stereotype of women that goes against her VERY nature (I mean that is what teach right?). It also has nothing to do with Alpha Traits.

The opinion that Mary Kassian takes is that the ‘breadwinner’ status places her in the man’s role, and her husband then must be in the ‘Beta’ role (using the second article as the prime example). Yes, pretty much the role reversal they whine so much about. She uses the professional women in the other article to prove her point. Yet, realistically? The point wasn’t made. They are in the minority. Also, bread winner women don’t all act like this – remember the Pastor wifes!

I believe a more realistic example is needed. I have friends where the husband is in construction for example, and his work is seasonal. She does customer service, and works all year round. Now depending on the construction season? She may or may not be the ‘bread winner’. I mean in his off season he does find work, but it can be hard to find at times.

What Mary never mentions is that MOST people are able to be realistic about these arrangements.

What Mary Kassian hints at is: If she makes more money she will have a hard time dropping her ‘Alpha’ mode when she gets from work, and it makes things even harder in the bedroom. He on the other hand is placed automatically in the ‘beta’ mode. OR she wants him the beta mode, and he is only allowed to surface to Alpha mode in bed only! Notice it doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with personalities types, but job incomes. Income makes the ALPHA right? In reality, NO.

Heck, I have seen beta males that were bread winners….never mind that doesn’t fit here!

Conflicting Messages about the Alpha

In our present day most mature couples view supporting the family as a JOINT effort, and they are both doing their parts to help the family unit as a whole. The way this article is presented is that men should be almost threatened by the woman’s part if she happens to find a job that generates more income. She is at risk of stepping over that imaginary line, and turning into the ladies in Mary’s second article!

No acknowledgement of any kind that this is a sense of insecurity that is very unhealthy for his sense of self….nope! It’s a threat to his manhood! Yeah, That's common sense and a healthy outlook right?! Sigh.

This is NOT a healthy elevation of the husband, but playing games in life to make him FEEL his role. Notice the ‘emotional’ component there. It also doesn’t prove their ‘male-female roles are interchangeable’ fear either.

I think the part that really eats at me is the negative, and almost doomsday opposing views in response to this disagreement. The Christian Post had an article about this issue, and showed opposing views even within the complementarian realm.

What does the bible say about men being the breadwinner

"The American man is struggling – I think we will have a monument for the modern 21^st Century man, and he will be on a couch, etched in stone, playing an X-Box," said Owen Strachan, vice president of The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and assistant professor of Christian Theology and Church History at Kentucky's Boyce College. In an interview with The Christian Post on Wednesday, he argued that "men are called by God to take responsibility for provision for their families."

Notice the women will be like the professionals that Mary Kassian pointed out in the second article, and the man will be like Owen Strachan describes above – The Xbox professional.

Notice once again the ‘emotional component’ they use to WIN their argument. Your suppose to ignore all the real life examples that tend to go against their stereotypes they have presented. That’s not persuasive, but the use of rhetoric we see to often today in politics.

Now, the second pastor in the article on the Christian Post? I may not agree with whole heartily, but you notice his definition of ‘headship’ isn’t so hard nosed and unrealistic.

"I think the man should be the head of the house, but a wise 21st century position would be consultative leadership," the pastor said. He referred to I Chronicles 12, when King David consulted with the heads of tribes after becoming king. "He consulted with them because they had functional authority because of their experience, their knowledge of warfare – he was wise enough to get help." Jackson argued that a wise man would "utilize a wife who may be a medical doctor with a multimillion earning potential."

Quoting Ephesians 5, Jackson argued that the order for wives to "submit to your husbands and to the Lord," is a military term, which means for a wife to align herself to the strategic goals of her husband. The husband, on the other hand, is told to love his wife as his own body. The pastor argued that this means "he's going to have to take into account her career, her passions, her desires, and put them on at least the same level as he would put his own career and personal aspirations."

This opinion of course sent Owen Strachman into a tizzy! (Tizzy Definition: a state of nervous excitement or agitation.) Owen feels that he doesn’t need to take her into account, but remind the world of their roles – and his account.

Most mature couples I know look at income generated as ‘our’ money, and there isn’t any power grab that Mary and Owen concentrate so much on. They can say what they will, but their definitions of ‘roles’ in their presentations do reveal this. Owen no doubt feels the power struggle is from Genesis, but has a hard time some realizing people find ways of moving past these ‘curses’ he uses to justify the roles. To him? It has to be there!

Yet, these types of articles and teachings that Mary Kassian and Owen Strachman tend to encourage this type of stinkin thinking! It encourages the THREAT to power structure they claim they are against, and then hand you a boogey man reality in its place. Their logic just doesn’t follow reality. I mean you are suppose to go WITH the ‘curses’ of Genesis – not work against them! Its only natural right?

Addendum To Add the Interchangeable Pastor Wives

Mary Kassian’s final note in her article about the Alpha Women and the Beta Boys was rather telling to me. It seems she heard from Pastor’s and their Wives, and because of HER salary. So Mary attempts at the end to change the tone:

Note: I’ve heard from several complemententarian pastors who say their wives must work and do out-earn them. However, they also tell me that though this is the situation, they don’t feel it’s ideal. They wish they earned more, and wish that their wives didn’t have to bear the burden of being primary breadwinner.
It’s not “wrong” for a woman to out earn her husband. That wasn’t my point. My point is merely that such a circumstance can and often does put an unnatural strain on relationships, and that a woman in this situation needs to take care to make sure that her higher wage doesn’t cause her to usurp her husband’s headship in their home.

Hmm. How sad. Their churches don’t pay their pastor’s enough so their own families don’t have an ‘unnatural strain’ on their marriage. Leaders within this belief system are to busy writing books, having seminars, and push teachings that their own pastor’s don’t even have the luxury of living. Wow.

Somehow I think we all know that isn’t the reality for these couples. He was called to do God’s work, and she is doing her part to support him in this call. They live their life’s against the roles they preach, and if she believes in his work? No doubt its not such a heavy burden for her in that sense – even though its ‘unnatural’.

So, as their pastor’s live life is in this ever present ‘danger’? The families that attend their church live this as well. That’s the reality of it from their viewpoint. I will never understand WHY they feel this ‘think the worse’ about aspects of life like this are in anyway encouraging.

Think about it! She hints in her article that the greater salary from the wife creates the Alpha Woman whom is: celebrated by those who have swallowed the feminist/egalitarian claim that male-female roles are interchangeable.

Yet, ends her article with an example of those who do make greater salaries WHOM I would assume she states is NOT the Alpha Woman with her Beta Boy. They are living the feminist/egalitarian male-female interchangeable roles in life…but really aren’t. Why? She takes great care in making sure her salary doesn’t usurp his authority.

Okay Then. Sounds like gas lighting to ME!

Mary’s article: Alpha Women Beta Boys

C.S. Lewis describes that kind of alliance—a real partnership/a deep friendship—as he lamented the death of his beloved wife Joy.

“For a good wife contains so many persons in herself. What was [she] not to me? She was my daughter and my mother, my pupil and my teacher, my subject and my sovereign; and always, holding all these in solution, my trusty comrade, friend, shipmate, fellow-soldier. My mistress, but at the same time all that any man friend (and I have good ones) has ever been to me. Perhaps more.... Did you ever know, dear, how much you took away with you when you left?”

Fascinating Womanhood Review: feminine role vs. working wife

Alicia Gray Detachment From Reality

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Sat, 1 Feb 2014 10:50:00 -0600

I watched a video of Alicia Gray, a former high school teacher in Mobile, Alabama that was sentenced to jail for Child Rape.

I’m not going to call it a ‘inappropriate relationship’ to make it more palatable for others, but I will call it what it is.

It was a crime of rape against a child of 14 years, and she will have to register as a sexual offender for the rest of her life once she is released from prison.

I realize some feel that direct approach is harsh. Hardly. That’s like saying someone that got caught stealing was borrowing with no intent of giving the item back. “Borrowing’ isn’t the proper word, and nor is ‘relationship’ in the context you have used. Its minimizing the crime she is attempting to address. Ownership is part of this.

Someone (the child) in this circumstance was given a life sentence, and it does no good for anyone to make that reality palatable for others and the criminal. Her poor husband and child also have a great deal of hurt, and a life sentence as well.

Christian’s being direct about certain sins, and sugar coating others? It just doesn’t give you the appearance you claim you stand for. There is no show of firmness when you waffle back and forth like that. Think about it!

Caught on tape: 5 self-serving responses by sex offenders in the church – Recommended reading

Sinister or Naïve

I have to be honest I don’t know much about Alicia Gray’s church, but what I have found is some churches its plain to see their sinister side. I don’t think that label applies here.

The Tina Anderson story, and CJ Mahaney story are more along the lines of what I feel is sinister. They know the game, and are playing it for their audience well.

I see a more naïve side from this group, and lack of the understanding of the dynamics of the crime involved. To be more specific the dynamics of this type of criminal.

The second group allows themselves this spiritual naïve nature to often at the expense of others. It may not be their intention, but they allow their good nature to override their common sense.

They spiritualize things instead of directly confronting them. God doesn’t ask us to distance ourselves from our crime, and tell others my OLD person did that in the fashion they presented this. You see detachment, and not ownership in a healthy fashion.

I honestly don’t have a problem with this church ‘supporting them’ as the pastor mentioned. Jesus would have us support criminals as much as victims. Yet, they so clearly didn’t understand the harm they were doing, and I’m sure still feel they did a good thing in releasing this video. They wanted to show the world they were showing Grace to her, and yet Grace is not suppose to be at the expense of others.

Here is a quote from the pastor,

"The purpose of the video was simply to say to everybody, there is hope for you. If you have failed, if you have failed God, if you have fallen further than you ever thought you could, the love, grace and healing of God will be able to forgive you," Wyatt, who leads Deeper Life Fellowship in Mobile, Ala., told The Christian Post on Wednesday.

Alicia Gray never mentioned how she had fallen further than she never felt she could – or even went near that in this message. She excused herself by stating she did this because of insecurity, and a void that was left because Jesus wasn’t in her life. Yes, among other things.

Honestly? Grace should have shown a humble and contrite person who fully acknowledges the harm they have done to others. It would think about the impact this statement from her would have towards her victim and his family:

Because of that joy he has given me, and the changed identity I no longer have to feel shame about the person I once was. And I will never be again, and because I know who I am in Jesus.

When you are given grace from God, and FEEL it in your heart, soul and life? You want to give this sense of grace to others, and not tell a hurting family that you harmed that you have no shame because of some faith transformation. Discernment was completely absent here. She admits later on she hasn’t even truly began to feel the brunt of the harm she did either – we will see that later on.

The way she presented this message is she pretty much has detached herself from her crime in a unhealthy fashion, because she truly doesn’t feel the harm she has caused. I mean the ‘old’ person did that – not the new ME! Yes, you can show ownership of this crime…and God’s presence can still be there firmly in your heart. Do they feel Grace can’t be present under those circumstances, or are they in a rush to wash the sin off them?

That’s the feeling most get – her rush to wash this sin off her. She used the transformation to distance herself from having to deal with it, and sadly you have to wonder does she realize her uphill battle has just begun? She has built herself up SO HIGH will she be able to handle things when the down hill parts come?

Sadly, from what I have seen in life? They get very upset that others don’t accept this ‘new’ person, and still treat them like the old one. The true test will be after the harsh realities of prison life, and how this crime will impact her from then on. The detachment I see today won’t work as well later on. It won’t properly process the harm she has done to her husband and baby. It won’t understand WHY she will have problems finding a job. How will she handle things when people question her presence alone with her baby.

You don’t see that preparation in this video at all. Do they think this is not needed? That this isn’t part of it?

The Merit Badge of Being A Christian

Some use the label Christian, or their relationship with the criminal as a merit badge that the criminal will have this air of honesty, integrity and character as they walk with them during this crisis.
It’s almost like since they have our merit badge its okay to assume they will deal with us in honestly and truth. It doesn’t matter that their crimes tend to call that into question. You have to wonder if they feel they can’t serve them properly unless they use this naïve mindset. They also are refusing to face this detachment you can clearly see in her performance.

At this point common sense leaves the building, and we enter the time and space of the spiritual la la land. You witness and hear all the correct keywords and phrases that make Christian’s swoon with joy as the criminal plays it for them.

YES her character and integrity can be called into question due to her crimes. A person that is truly contrite in their repentance isn’t going to get defensive about that. They expect it.

If you read her transcript instead of listening to it with the music, emotion, and watching her smile at her transformation? Its not the same, because you can clearly catch things that don’t make sense while looking at the words – and not just watching her speak them.

Acknowledging the Dynamics of a Criminal

There are different characteristics of criminals depending on their crime. There are similar characteristics as well for most.

Criminals like Alicia Gray use manipulation to draw her victim in, and they are con artists. Those aspects of their personality didn’t just appear one day, and disappear the next. They couldn’t hook their victims in if they were not GOOD at it. Being good at something takes time and experience.

Now, when you point those ‘realities’ out to some individuals? They tend to do the very thing they accuse the ‘world’ of doing…assume the worse. They state in reference to the convicted criminal, “I hear you saying that there is no hope for a perpetrator!”

Actually, no one is saying that.

Sure, the criminal DID say all the right things! Remember their merit badge. They used their keywords, and phrases…and maybe even wailed in response when they reminded the criminal that God forgives …and loves them.

No one is saying to not do what you feel convicted to do, but do it in a wise way. In this case admit she wasn’t speaking of Grace that your church showed her, and the place she found herself in. Remember your purpose of the video? She didn’t even mention anything regarding that purpose. She was too busy sailing around with the Jesus Language.

I mean she didn’t even mention how God is going to help her with her struggles in the days forward, and to me that a huge portion to leave out.

She concentrated mostly on the transformation, and then shamed the victim by telling them she hopes they get over the bitterness, and sadly does NOT show she understands the implications of her actions.

I don't expect that the forgiveness might happen. I understand the implications of pain and bitterness that I have caused. Your completely justified to feel that way, but I do pray that each of you be free of the pain and bitterness, anger, anxiety or whatever you feel. Those are not things that are from God. God does not want that for you. He didn't want the situation to happen, but Thank God he uses the hurts of others. He redeemed me. And he placed it in my heart to just glorify him. And I pray that he uses this situation to heal all those involved.

What victim in their right mind wants to her their abuser say that God used the harm that was done to them to redeem their abuser? How their righteous anger is not of God? How the abuser is all better now, and I hope you get there too!

Your keywords and phases are there, but they make NO SENSE under the circumstances! Its selfish really.

She may have acknowledged the entire REALM of what she did within the presence of her husband, your church, your counselors or whomever. Although I have to be honest – I doubt it. Sadly, if she wished to show the Grace she claims God has shown her? She also would had to have felt the entire impact of what she has done. She didn’t do that she admits, and then tells people it would be a performance for them if she did.

Its one of those things that peace and rest, which are thrown around alot but...God really gives us overwhelming peace when you know who you are, and you don't have to do something to make God happy with you. You don't have to perform for other people, because I have had a lot of advice from people: that they need to see me cry more, and people need to see me fall apart. And my body makes me think, 'Shouldn't I be a mess right now? Shouldn't I have to do this? But God just lets that peace fall, and gives me that security of knowing that I'm just not that person anymore!

Seriously? She doesn’t have to fall apart knowing what she did, and then allow God to lift her back up again? She bypasses that all together, and then tries to tell people she understands the implications. Where does that happen in your bible, because it doesn’t happen in mine!

I just can’t picture Nathan letting David get away with that can you?

Sadly, people get to carried away with this ‘instant’ glorification of being transformed…and don’t realize they get played more than they are willing to admit.

Time, words and actions show the truth! Time with Action was overlooked here. Pride is holding you back from acknowledging this. You got caught up in the emotion of it, but time will show us if it is truly real.

Christians are quick to bring up stories they have seen or heard of this INSTANT transformation, and they refuse to face the fact we are all human. It doesn’t happen as often as they want to believe it does. It also doesn’t change the reality here. It just shows how willing they are to quickly go into some naïve mindset.

All Christians are in a constant state of repentance after all. All transformations take time, because breaking habits is never easy for anyone. I mean remember someone in your life that has something SMALL they are fighting to overcome…like biting their fingernails! This is MUCH bigger than that. Why is it people think the dangerous stuff is easier to overcome if they put on the proper show for others?

Keep in mind what she did was more than a bad habit, and she will need intense therapy for some time. She didn’t even acknowledge that, because her old person is gone……Wow.

A Truly Repentant Person Naturally is Contrite

A person that is truly repentant isn’t going to resist all the extras that are required from them, and at times I feel some Christians feel it maybe TOO much for them to handle…and they may flee.

Sadly, that is a sign they are not ready to do what you are wanting from them. You need to figure out a new approach. If you refuse to face this fact? You want a fantasyland, and not the biblical turning you claim you are for.

They shouldn’t resist holding their feet to the fire, because they need it! God wants it! Remember those speeches they gave you, because they told you they wanted it too! If they keep running sometimes prayer is the only thing you can offer.

Choosing to Believe Survivors Or Criminals

Lastly, to those people that are all ready to hand her over your faith in her repentance need to listen to those that have gone down this road before.

You tend to downplay, minimize, and make excuses for why you refuse to take their counsel. You assume the worse – they have been hurt, and are marinating it…so what do they know.

Granted some people are marinating in their hurt, and I don’t deny that. You might be surprised at how many have moved beyond that, and want to save you the pain of what they have learned and experienced. Instead, you treat them like a perpetual wounded animal that just wants to bite you.

So your okay with taking the word of a person that has bitten others, and willingly ignore the ones that got bit. Why does this make sense to you? Honestly, that never made a lick of sense to me!

Think for a moment! You are willing to give your all to someone that has shown they are able to harm others, but you aren’t willing to listen to the ones that have survived this crisis. That lacks common sense when you distance yourself enough to look at it clearly.

Much to often I see people telling experienced survivors they are speaking from hurt, and that hurt has jaded their outlook. They never consider they themselves are being naïve, and in some ways very arrogant. Instead of dismissing them try listening.

What is it going to hurt? Open your mind and heart as you have with the criminal. Can they NOT be authentic too? Do they not have the right to the same respect? It may give you ideas of how to better approach the next crisis, and actually stop the games that criminals tend to play almost by their very nature. Sadly, this game is VERY easy to play within the Christian environment.

Sure, criminals will admit certain things at times. They will speak of their struggle, and if you use too much wishful thinking instead of wisdom? They are going to play you like a concert pianist! Some aspects maybe on the purpose, and other aspects are just plain old habits that are hard to break. It is what it is.

Victims that are overlooked

Regarding the church in question? I think they were caught up with showing the world how they offered grace to Alicia Gray. Alicia spent much of the time proselytizing, and her apology was too generic.
Her journey is too premature to have experienced this turn yet. It’s going to be a life long journey for her, and she has some HUGE hills to climb in the future. I do pray she walks the walk as well she talked the talk.

Sadly, this church was so caught up with doing what they felt was right that they missed aspects that no doubt hurt the victim and his family. I also think they are having a hard time admitting that, and just think their introduction – or purpose – of the video could have been done better. I mean they didn’t even realize Alicia didn’t even address the question at the beginning of the video, nor the purpose of it that the pastor mentioned.

I think their hearts were in the right place, but they completely missed was really needed. I don’t fault them for supporting a criminal. I do hope they yearn to understand why so many felt their production they made in good faith was so triggering, and tragic to so many others that walked down that path before they did.

Side note from me!
I saw the news casts of her walking into court with her husband. That poor man had agony dripping from his pores, and he needs support completely and absolutely distanced from what you feel his wife needs. Separate from the marriage vows. It should be all about him – the poor man needs it. He needs more than your keywords, and Christian phrases…that they have sadly turned into more of platitudes at this point. He has a child to consider as well.

Besides the victim and his family? That husband broke my heart just watching him. Learn about the dynamics of the circumstances you are dealing with, and give him the fruitful grace he needs. I wouldn’t do another video about it. No doubt he has enough to deal with. Guilt by association by people, etc.

I can understand her NOT mentioning him in her court statement, but she didn’t even give him one syllable in the video either. That’s downright hurtful from my viewpoint – no show of grace regarding his support? Yet another HUGE aspect your good intentions completely missed.

Additional Resources:
IT wasn’t a relationship! By Watch Keep – Amy Smith
Being Married to a Pedophile: A Wife Speaks Out and Offers Hope to Other Wives of Pedophiles
Remorse, Repentance, Recovery

Transcript of Alicia Gray Video

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Sat, 1 Feb 2014 10:49:00 -0600

Below is a transcript from Alicia Gray that came from a video that you can find on Youtube. This is part one only.

Alicia Gray Video Part One

Pastor Mark Wyatt Introduction:

Hey everybody as you know umm about 11 months ago last February we got word at Deeper Life that one of our church members Alicia Gray had been arrested and charged with umm a sexual relationship with one of her students.

She is a high school teacher here in Mobile. And we decided then and there that the degree of her guilt and innocence would not be a deciding factor on how we loved her and how much we loved her. So we decided the rally around them. And we knew that was the right thing to do, and so over the last 11 months its been an amazing thing to watch as Alicia has had her identity redefined in the context of the fact she is the daughter of God. That she is fully loved no matter what she does.

In talking with Alicia's Lawyer - Chris and Alicia decided a few months ago to a plea deal. So they agree to plead out umm for time for her. And so this morning umm a sentence was handed down. And a number of us were able to be there at the court room for her to be there for sentencing.

And in that moment Alicia got to make a statement to the judge before he sentenced her that honestly I have to tell you that was one of the most powerful things I have ever heard in my life.

Alicia's statement preached the gospel, It showed the power of grace and how grace has saved her. And the love of the father has saved her life.

In that statement she apologized to the young man involved in that relationship, and his family. And she talked about what she wants to see the Lord do there. So after the sentencing umm I was able to sit down with Alicia and get an interview with her on video. We had talked about this beforehand. She wanted to do this. and We want you to hear Alicia's heart. We want you to hear what God has done in her life in the last 11 months.

Here is Alicia Gray.

(1:52 minute Mark in Video)

What is the difference between regret and shame?

(Question presented at the beginning of video)

Hmm. I actually just explained that to some of my in-laws on the way here.
Umm This is something...

So of course I'm very sorry for my selfish actions, and the choices that I made out of insecurity and hurts that I felt myself. Umm And I'm sorry for those, and I'm thankful that God has changed me and shown me my identity in Jesus Christ where I don't make those same selfish decisions and hurt other people.

umm So because of that joy he has given me, and the changed identity I no longer have to feel shame about the person I once was. And I will never be again, and because I know who I am in Jesus.

Its one of those things of peace and rest, which are words we thrown around alot but...God really gives us overwhelming peace when you know who you are, and you don't have to do something to make God happy at you.

You don't have to perform for other people, and ahh because I have had alot of advice throughout this: that they need to see me cry more, and people need to see me fall apart. And my body sometimes makes me think, 'Shouldn't I be a mess right now? Shouldn't I have to do this? But God just lets that peace fall, and gives me that security of knowing that I'm just not that person anymore!

And I don't have to live the way I used to live, because it was different, but I had DID. I had insecurities. I umm I had pain in my own heart, and a void I thought I needed to fill.

Though attention and all kinds of other things. And that void was just needing Jesus. And having absolutely no lack, and that he completely fills everything and makes me secure in whom I am. Happy in whom I am. and makes it where he is the only person I want to please . The great thing is I don't have to do anything to please him. Because when God sees me he just sees Jesus... and Jesus absolute finished work on the cross, and he is very happy of me.

The statement I made in court today, and I would like to everyone to didn't hear in fullness:

I just want to say this in regards to the victim, and the family...and anyone that has been hurt though this: I wanted to apologize for my inappropriate, and selfish and very hurtful actions.

Selfish really is the word. I acted out on my own though my own insecurities without thoughtful concern for anyone else's well being.

I realize I have hurt many people, and I've also realized the implications of what I've done.

And the possible difficulties that can cause for people who have been hurt: Bitterness, angry, fear, anxiety, depression and insecurity...and so on, and all those things we think those things that led up to my behaviors. And I don't wish that on anyone else.

Umm Complete healing is needed for you to be able to walk in and umm in complete grace that God gives.
And I apologize for what I have done, and that person from a year ago is gone, and has changed forever thanks to the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. And God our father and the renewed mind that he has given me.

Everyone that has been hurt is constantly in my prayers, and I pray that my unwarranted actions and the hurt it has caused don't have a hold on anyone's life's. I pray for peace, healing and restoration.

And my ultimate prayer is you kingdom come, and your will be done God.

Take this situation and that should have never ever happened, and provide healing and rest in the ones that have been hurt.

Um Jesus has brought me to a place of peace in which I'm ready for the consequences that should befall me.

He showed me the continued difficulty that people would experience should this case go to trial. so, I have no desire to drag anyone through that. Or require people that have been hurt to have to testify publicly, or hear the testimonies.

Thankfully God presented another option which I can confess my actions alone without requiring others to have anyone have to endure that. I confess my sin, and I ask forgiveness whom each person involved.   Anyone that has been hurt or touched by this. Whether small or big is all the same. Hurt is hurt.

I don't expect that the forgiveness might happen. I understand the implications of pain and bitterness that I have caused. Your completely justified to feel that way, but I do pray that each of you be free of the pain and bitterness, anger, anxiety or whatever you feel. Those are not things that are from God. God does not want that for you. He didn't want the situation to happen, but Thank God he uses the hurts of others. He redeemed me. And he placed it in my heart to just glorify him.   And I pray that he uses this situation to heal all those involved.

God is the business of loving people and restoring lives. Nothing compares to his great love.

There are several people that have been victim to this situation.    All those that have been hurt. It should have never happened to you, but God still makes beauty from ashes. He can restore your life’s that are broken, and because I chose to act out of selfishness and hurt... people. I continue to pray that the healer of all healers can give you freedom from the pain you have experienced. I will ask my friends, family, and church congregation to keep you in prayer for complete healing, peace and restoration.   Grace and peace be with you.

The Fall of Doug Phillips and Vision Forums

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Sun, 1 Dec 2013 14:16:00 -0600

I have to admit my mind just swims when I look at the different responses from different groups to ‘scandals’ within their circles. Being human I think we all realize coming clean at times isn’t the easiest thing in the world to do.

I don’t know about most, but I value people that can fall – even big time – and then pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and keep going. It can’t be easy to totally own something, and yet you notice at times some individuals don’t seem to have an issue with this at all. While, others – especially some leaders – struggle with even admitting the smallest of issues.

Doug Phillips, of Vision Forums has resigned over an affair that he claims hasn’t gone into the ‘biblically intimate” realms…if you catch my drift. Their ministry seems to be falling apart at the seams that this point, and now you are getting the impression that despite his ‘repentance’ letter he placed online? He truly isn’t all that sorry. Here is a partial quote from Spiritual Sounding board from a another ‘leader’ that was groomed in this movement since the cradle.

He then wrote about the intention of a group of men who were “bosom brothers,” close friends, to lovingly confront Phillips to plea for true repentance and restoration.

What for us was a tender, emotional, mission of mercy and plea for true repentance was met with something, and by someone I never could have imagined. Instead of being received as the “wounds of a friend” (Proverbs 27:6), I was formally disowned and declared to be a “destroyer” to my face.

You could feel the disillusion in Peter Bradrick’s words, and if you see some of his sermons? He was raised in a very insular homeschooling movement that is packaged into a ‘true way to live’ type of ministry. Sadly, for him Doug Phillips isn’t following the rules he presented for everyone else to live by.

It reminds me of one of my daughter's favorite shows: Law and Order, SUV. When I listen to Doug Phillip’s group at times it reminds me of one of the episodes about a Homeschooling mother. Don’t get me wrong there is nothing WRONG with home schooling, but like everything else in life there can be a dark side. The Characters were not in a religious homeschooling group, but the fear of the outside world was very similar.

The show starts by a little boy (Jacob) being caught eating garbage, and that triggers an investigation because he clearly wasn’t homeless. The boy was trying to escape a paranoid mother that refuses to have anything to do with the outside world. She did this partly by controlling their food.

After Marilyn's husband was shot in a holdup, she kept her sons very close. According to Marilyn, processed food causes cancer, school is a place where children are shot and bullied, the city streets harbor killers around every corner, and foster homes lead children into lives of abuse and misery.

When the mother was called in, and questions were asked? They were targeting her NOT because her son was found in a garbage can eating the food, but because she homeschools. The world ‘targets’ them due to this, and she keeps them very close. Since they really have nothing legally to hold them on a ‘home check’ is ordered, and of course everything checks out there.

Problem is her paranoia decides that the ‘world’ is going to come and get them after that. Now her younger child Jacob – the one caught eating the food – has brought the evil world to them. She talked her older son (Adam) into doing the youngest a big favor by killing him, and then he was to kill himself. That way they were safe, and no one could harm them. She would leave her gun at home, and she would go shopping. Adam would do this while she was gone, so she wouldn’t get into trouble.

Adam did kill his brother Jacob, but the gun jammed after that. He couldn’t kill himself, and of course you have an investigation into murder. Adam was brainwashed at this point, and his excuse for killing his brother was to save him from a life of misery at the hands of the ‘world’.

The show ends when they find another brother – Daniel - that was the oldest, and the now Adam was dealing with the fact his mother lied to him. He was told his older brother Daniel was taken away by foster care, and was killed. Something his mother told him he was saving his brother Jacob and himself from now. The reality was he was taken away due to abuse from his mother, and abandoned. Daniel was used as a tool of terror for other two, and was told this is what happens when you don’t listen to mother.

Marilyn (mother) is arrested off-screen and is shown in Novak's office with her attorney. Adam arrives and angrily berates Marilyn for lying to him about Daniel and for making him shoot Jacob. Daniel enters the office and sarcastically greets Marilyn much to her shock. Realizing that she has lost control of her son, Marilyn accuses the police of destroying her family. Stabler and Benson begin dragging Marilyn out of the office, and she begs Adam for help, saying that she's the only one he can trust, but Adam doesn't even look at her.

You can imagine bewilderment Adam felt when he realized how the world was much different than what he had been taught. Now he has to begin a new life with his brother Daniel ‘in the world’. He was so sheltered he didn’t know any different. He honestly felt he did his younger brother a favor by killing him, and was left with the reality of the true circumstance.

To many groups start with a good intention, and go into these controlling ‘la la’ lands. The leaders are good at telling everyone what is wrong with everyone else, but when they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar? That seems completely different. What is even more strange to me is the group no doubt would have accepted his full repentance if he had stepped up, and lived out what he preached to others. Instead, Phillips seems to be handing over a crash in their reality like Adam had in our story above. It will cause a ton of heartbreak.

When this type of thing happens? All types of other ‘ugly’ business comes out shortly afterwards. It really does shake people to the core. I do not have the same belief systems as this group, but my heart breaks for them. Now I will pray for their journey forward.

He's my friend! The rinse and repeat excuse used by Celebrity Pastors.

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:55:00 -0600

Boy oh BOY is there a huge BREW ha ha over Mark Driscoll, and Janet Mefferd recently.

It reminds me of the gaslighting that victims get when they approach the church about the abuse in their homes. You know what I mean…it never really happened. It was all in your mind. You just want to be mad, etc. We see nothing, and you are making a big deal out of nothing. NOTHING here to see!

He is my friend!

Mark was to be interviewed about his new book, and he was called on some publishing errors that Janet saw. He first attempted the pollyanna response (He is my friend, and I love him, etc.) that is common with celebrity pastors, and then Janet Mefferd pushed harder. He answered again with a hint that maybe she needs to hush with a snark about how he should have taken notes during dinnertime with the author…and footnoted it for Janet Mefferd. She was firm, but nice and drove the point home again - he wasn’t having it. He did the ‘biblical’ drill, and she is just being nasty by continuing the conversation.

Mark to me is trying to be the ‘cool’ pastor on the block, and he seems to have quite a following. He is more what I was term a Celebrity Pastor, and he seems to feel at times his opinion is best presented with the LOUD factor.

Yet, in this interview with Janet Mefferd? I’m sorry it reminded me of the old Southern Belle approach of how he just doesn’t understand what she wants from him today….we suppose to talk about my BOOK after all. I told you he is my friend, and I love him…and if I had small error in my footnote – I say to my friend ‘sorry’. Driscoll is no Southern Belle, and he got called out on it – drop the platitudes and answer the question. Mark objected and got nasty because she didn’t go with the ‘biblical’ game that celebrity pastors use when they get busted.

Today if you have a pastor that is popular in some circles, and he is complementarian? They seem to include him in their little ‘inner’ circle. They promote themselves in the other’s conferences, promote each other’s books, and generally parrot the old ‘he is a Godly man’ deal. You have to admit their marketing is working.

Mark Driscoll is accused of plagiarism. His inner circle is more upset over her being ‘rude’ to him. Oh boy!

Prior to my edits here on 12/7/13 - Janet Mefferd has taken down some of the material about this case.
Ingrid Schlueter Resigns From Janet Mefferd Show Over Mark Driscoll Plagiarism Controversy

Fallout From Radio Show Host's Allegations That Pastor Mark Driscoll Plagiarized Includes Deletion, Apology and Producer's Resignation

Although it is not clear why Mefferd removed her content regarding the accusations against Driscoll or whether she was pressured, the Christian Post learned that Tyndale House has some sort of media partnership with Salem Radio Network and Mefferd's radio show is a member of Salem National, a subsidiary of Salem Communications Corporation.

So some of the links below have been removed by the author.

Other Examples of, “He is my friend”

Problem is when one of the celebrity pastors fall? They tend to circle the wagons, and go in for the kill towards the accuser. I have to tell you I caught the business when I posted John Piper on Youtube when he spoke on Desiring God, “Does a woman submit to abuse.” Now keep in mind the website stated you could copy the material to share, and that is what I did on youtube along with my opinion’s of his viewpoint on my blog. Well that video took on a life of its own, and to this day he still refuses to admit that what he said was awful and dangerous. I no doubt didn’t take the junk that Janet Mefferd is taking from the Mark Driscroll crowd, but I can sure empathize with her position.

They did the same thing when it came to CJ Mahaney, and the sexual abuse circus that went on within his network of churches. They all love him, and don’t believe a word of it – since they are ‘friends’ and all that don’t you know. Throw in a couple of “Godly” this, and “Biblical” that and everything is all better now. I mean when some of the cases were thrown out because of the statue of limitations (took to long to come to trial) that means the cases had no merit – according to the celebrity pastors. Your suppose to believe that now! Yet, that isn’t entirely true is it?!

Celebrity Pastors seem to get a couple of passes they certainly shouldn’t be getting. I guess they seem to feel if one falls the rest will fall like a house of cards?

Anyway, here is the start of the timeline:

She is a journalist, and she did need to ask about the lack of ‘piety’ he showed at John MacArthur’s Strange Fire by crashing it to give out his ‘newest’ book. When he was asked to leave? He tweets that they confiscated his books, and yet they have video of him offering them UP as a gift to the church. Creating that type of ‘buzz’ isn’t generally considered proper, or above board. He attempts to skate past all that. Its an inner circle deal, and your suppose to overlook it.

Mark got a pass on the Strange Fire behavior in the interview as far as I’m concerned. No doubt he was a bit embarrassed by his childish behavior, especially when he was there to speak at a ‘Act Like Men’ conference on the other part of town. (giggles) Think about that for a moment huh?

Janet Mefferd Interviews Mark Driscoll

The interview was going nicely until the alleged plagiarism came up. As I said the pollyanna approach was attempted, and he snaps back by telling her she is being grumpy, accusatory, and not Christlike when the approach was rejected. I realize it was uncomfortable for him, but he does preach how you are to be humble in response to error. He blew that.

I mean how dare her hold his feet the to fire like that? I had to roll my eyes at the “I love you as a sister in Christ’ speech as well. Please. Seriously? He was to busy telling her he dines with the gentleman that his material sounds like, and how he is a good friend of his. That doesn’t answer the questions, but I guess it should.

Then it happened…. The end of the interview to ME at least sounded like a call drop. You know how cell phones are. I didn’t take it as a hangup myself. .

Well – insert drama here – did he hang up or didn’t he? A second audio of the interview surfaced to show that he didn’t. The second audio to me seemed a bit fishy, because the audio quality is different. The seconds that pass of silence was different as well. His publishing house (Tyndale) came back with a rebuke of Mefferd after listening to a recording supplied by Mark Driscoll of the interview. They apparently didn’t like her tone (which others didn’t either), and stated that the book correctly footnoted Mark’s source. Janet supplied screenshots of the material in question. It certainly doesn’t look like he footnoted by the lawful standardized practice, but I’m no lawyer.

Notice! Janet is clear as a bell as she is in the studio on the first version (video above), but on the second version of the interview ending she sounds like she is also on the cell phone. It clearly isn’t the same recording at all. Did Mark hit his mute button by mistake while he was also recording the interview? Who knows, and quite frankly who cares.

It wasn’t the big issue anyway. Yet, you wouldn’t think so by the buzz all over the place. I saw it as a diversion from the bigger issues. It was all about how Mark was treated rudely, and accused of hanging up on the interview when he didn’t. WELL at least from his ‘circle the wagons’ friends. I still don’t really know what happened there, but something did. If you look at the comment section of Spiritual Sounding Board you will see ‘tweets’ from the inner circle telling others not to do interviews anymore with Janet Mefferd.

Own it, Correct it, and Move ON! Friendship doesn’t cut it!

I have had to deal with my share of media in the past due to a business officer position I held once upon a time. We had the media hounding us over a personnel issue, and we couldn’t discuss it contractually. The person was charismatic, and we got loads of phone calls about it. Yet, we had to handle it some how. We had some drama as well, and you need to stay calm, direct and to the point. In our circumstance everything was above board, and we would have LOVED to include the parts that we legally couldn’t.

If you are asked questions again – like Driscoll was? You rinse and repeat your response. I guess my point here is if a everyday person can do this on occasion? Driscoll in his position he really has no excuse. He just doesn’t. The Pollyanna approach isn’t what was needed here, and it sounds like the alleged actions may not be so above board. Is that why he relied on friendship in this case? I don’t know.

If the alleged plagiarism was indeed an error, and it was overlooked? You shut the interview down right away by admitting it. You rinse and repeat your response as needed. You can do it in a way without having your pants sued off, and he knows it. You should have heard repentance (if he felt there was a possibility of error)…and you heard defensiveness and he is my friend (which has nothing to do with it).

You sound sincere and firm, because mistakes happen. The last thing you do is get defensive, and give this impression on how dare you attempt to take authority over ME. For goodness sakes you sound fishy, and up to something when you do that. You try to act all ‘street wise’ preacher guy the rest of the time! Legally? They should care less if the man is your friend, and you had dinner with him…and all that jazz. It wouldn’t hold up!

Janet did a follow up, because of the backlash.

Janet Talks about what happened with Mark Driscoll

Honestly? If Mark Driscoll was a man of integrity he would stop the wagons that circled him, and say, “Your right! I acted like a Jerk. I’m sorry.” Then you finish it up like you should. Being called on a alleged crime – 14 pages of material after all – is pretty serious. If it was dumb mistake why not admit it? Is there a lack of faith in forgiveness?

Quite frankly, admitting the error to me it would go far. He acted like he was above all that, and no one is…not even a celebrity pastor. Friendship doesn’t apply in their circumstances. He did attempt to admit it, but also ended it by making excuses for himself. That is why he got additional questions from her. He tried to wiggle out of it.

He has an out here he could use – blame the FLU! We all get grumpy when we don’t feel good. Save face and use it for goodness sakes!

Yesterday Janet Mefferd spoke for the last time for now about this issue, and also posted online screenshots of the material in question. She also added to the list where he alleged plagiarized in another book. The publishing houses will not return her calls or emails. You can listen to how she has been treated since this time, and how she has uncovered the possible reasons WHY the publishing houses are refusing to talk to her. Big surprise…Money!

I know my readers have felt ‘gaslighted’ when they have approached their churches about the abuse that is going on in their homes. If anything this circumstance should validate your life experiences in a way. Mark was trying to pussy foot around this interview, and she was strong enough to not let him. Most in you in your circumstance – at the time anyway – were NOT strong enough to do what Janet did. Your too beaten down by life, and sadly that is what they count on. Well in my opinion anyway. The bigger issue? We shouldn’t have play those games.

Does ‘He is my friend’ work?

Will this circumstance blow over? In my experience due to their status – it will. I hope Janet Mefferd doesn’t let go of this, and she shouldn’t. When you look close enough it all comes down to cash. The cash they make from these celebrity pastors, and how they are investing in publishing the cash cows in the future. The alleged source material he plagiarized? He took it from the inner circle, and they won’t push it legally. That’s the reality of it. Remember they cover for each other, and this practice may magically stop or disappear in future printing of the books in question. They will not go as far as admitting any wrong doing. The publishing houses will cover their behinds as well.

No. Its not us – its them. It’s the lofty and haughty attitudes that know so much better without even giving the consideration of a true listening ear. The muscle of the machine will make the circumstances disappear, and the diversions will belittle the reality of it. They are ‘friends’ after all.

They seem truly afraid to be held accountable, and sadly tend to stick together like some high school clic. Sigh.

Other points of view:

Janet Mefferd She speaks again about this after the Scott Walker interview – about the 19 minute mark.
Mark Driscoll and Janet Mefferd: Plagiarism, Tribalism and Paganism
Plagiarism? Examine for Yourself
If the Top Men take over, who will ask the hard questions?
Janet Mefferd presents documentation of Mark Driscoll's work to work by Peter Jones and Don Carson

Stumbling Blocks of the Church

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 13:58:00 -0600

The concept of the stumbling block has been on my heart lately. The scandals we read about are indeed stumbling blocks to people. Yet I see so many approaches to Christians that are HUGE stumbling blocks as well.

I think it truly dawned on me when I had been reading more and more about the New Pope Francis. You know me! I love history, and he is part of history now. He is so opposite of what we are used too. He really draws you in by his love of others.

Compare that to some Christian leaders get so busy pontificating on how people need to view things, and how they live their lifes. Yet, you wonder if they realize how much they turn OFF people with their approach. Yes, they are told about this. They pretty much blow off their critics, and let everyone know they NEED to be told the truth.

Notice, you were not addressing ‘the truth’. You were addressing their delivery of the ‘truth’. They have answers for that as well. They go onto this speech from Matthew 7 about how most people will take the WIDE path in life, and others that ‘get it’ will take the smaller one.

Notice that still doesn’t address their delivery.

I guess they don’t wish to face that there is a REAL possibly that their delivery is a real stumbling block for their brother – along with their actions. Then you compare that to the delivery system of the new Pope? It startling in differences.

I’m not Catholic, but I have say Pope Francis is extremely refreshing to me. His humility and care for everyone – not just Catholics – shows me he does indeed have Jesus in his heart. He has that ‘delivery’ down pretty well, although I can see why he rubs ‘conservatives’ the wrong way. (giggles) He isn’t stuffy enough for them!

I want to compare approaches, and not so much to get into ‘denominations’, etc. Lets view the delivery system, and the stumbling block we present to others at times.

I firmly believe even if you disagree with someone their delivery and attitude can still leave with you a sense of respect for the person. One approach can be very attractive, an other repels. The repelling nature of a pastor can be a stumbling block to others when you can’t feel the presence of God within them.

Accountability

Doug Phillip’s is very popular in certain circles, but the man is clearly ‘out there’ with a lot of his beliefs. Its always left a bad taste in my mouth how churches can attack certain aspects of the ‘world’, and yet leave cultish figures alone and unchecked. Doug Phillips is a great example of them ignoring.

Doug Phillips, an outspoken proponent of male “dominion” over women and a leading home-schooling activist, has stepped down as president of his Texas-based Vision Forum Ministries after admitting to an inappropriate relationship with a woman

I guess its easier for them to poke at generalities in society than it is for them to point out groups that preach a dark gospel. The bible clearly – to me anyway – states we are to speak out against false teachings. Yet, sadly if you pay close attention? There are many ‘church’ circles that tend to intertwine themselves, and that could be why they won’t speak against the other.

Doug Phillips told the world he was stepping down from some of his responsibilities due to a long, ongoing emotional affair with someone besides his wife. You will notice a pattern of how they step down for a short period of time, and then their ‘elders’ announce to the world they are all better now – and come back. They go on with life as if it never happened, and go back to that same nasty, ugly attitude towards anyone that doesn’t agree with them.

One sentence from an article I read about Doug Phillip’s recent fall that seemed to sum it up quite nicely.

His fellow patriarchs will help him in this “restoration” because they have to defend the system they’ve built.

Notice they will remind everyone that we are fallen humans, and are prone to sin. Sure, there is truth to that statement. The big difference is how certain fallen humans are treated, compared to the ones in leadership. You can pretty much guarantee the power ‘pastor’ will be redeemed, but the individual in most cases is still considered stunned and revolting.

Remember the world to them seems to be the real enemy. The world doesn’t agree with how they view things that they call ‘biblical’, and they are quick to call them names and tear them down. Then you have the statements about how ‘those’ people don’t appreciate marriage, children, nor God’s word. A difference of opinion places you automatically in that camp. Unless you bow down to their way of thinking you will always be ‘one of those’. Its always this ‘us against them’ game.

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. - 1 Corinthians 8:9

You hear them say they LOVE everyone, and yet their words and actions do not line up! No accountability for that either.

Yet, they don’t view that as a stumbling block.

I suppose that is why I have been watching this new Pope. I have to tell you his approach towards the world is refreshing to me.

You can almost feel his concern, humility, and care for everyone – not just Catholics. Again this week he was in the news showing his concern for the lest of these and captivated the world.

He also is calling out its hierarchy to move away from their TONS of small minded rules, and get back to serving as Christ has asked them too.

RULES are very important to some churches, and there is a lot of them – written and unwritten. Those are the upmost importance to ‘show’ the world their sense biblical ….whatever – fill in the blank.

This is a stumbling block.

Transparency

The Pope backed up his statements of how the church needs to come back to service of her people when he took immediate action against what others coined as the Bishop of Bling. A Bishop that flaunted his wealth, position, and power by requesting a $20,000 bathtub in his personal residence. The bishopric estate’s renovation up to $43 million – more than five times the original estimate. Pope Francis saw him for 20 minutes, and removed him from his position of power.

Let’s compare Pope Francis’s approach towards ‘Bishop of Bling’ and then the ‘show’ since Stuart Watson's expose on the finances of Steven Furtick and Elevation Church began on October 22nd. One leader asks for transparency of finances, and the other has his brother attack the news reporter by calling him ‘half a man’ and a ‘two bit hack’ when questions about the opulence is questioned.

Yes, this is a stumbling block

Women in the Church

I may not agree with Pope Francis on the role of clergy being only male, but his approach towards women is very gentle compared to screams from other churches about how they are emasculating the church by asking to find ways to serve. Pope Francis wishes Women to be called to service, not servitude. He is also encouraging the church to find new ways for women to serve God’s people to fulfill their calling to do so.

“From here, we must restart that work of deepening and of promoting, for which I have already hoped many times. Even in the Church, it is important to ask oneself: what presence does the woman have?” he said.

“I suffer – speaking truthfully! – when I see in the Church or in some ecclesial organizations that the role of service that we all have, and that we must have - but that the role of service of the woman slips into a role of “servidumbre” [Spanish: servitude]. . . But when I see women that do things out of “servitude” and not out of service,” said Pope Francis. “And that it is not understood well what a woman ought to do. Can she be valued more? It is a reality that is close to my heart and for this I wanted to meet … and bless you and your commitment. Thank you, let us move this forward together! May most holy Mary – a great woman, eh? – the Mother of Jesus and of all God’s children, accompany us. Thank you!”

Compare that to statements about the relationships between a man and woman from Doug Wilson:

In other words, however we try, the sexual act cannot be made into an egalitarian pleasuring party. A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts. This is of course offensive to all egalitarians, and so our culture has rebelled against the concept of authority and submission in marriage. This means that we have sought to suppress the concepts of authority and submission as they relate to the marriage bed.

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. - Romans 14:13

These ‘I’m above you’ or statements to encourage her servitude – are they not a stumbling block?

Approaches towards the Hurting

A while ago I was truly bothered by articles I saw written to the hurting. They reminded me of an obstinate child as they mocked the people they wrote about.

One addressed, Should we Say the Church Hurt me?

The person could mean the big-C Church has hurt them–all Christians everywhere. That sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? But think about it. When a person says “The church has hurt me” and they’re refusing to visit or join any local congregation of believers they have practically projected their hurt onto the entire universal body of Christ! They have assigned their offense to every possible Christian and Christian congregation imaginable. Practically, their distrust has reached universal proportions. In every case this is false. We might provide some of our best care by helping our friends recognize the practical universalism in some of their reactions. Hopefully we can get them to dial it down to the next possible level.

The other addressed issues people feel the church is silent on, and need to speak out on them. They were told, ‘Stop Slandering Christ's Bride’

For years it was merely an overused rhetorical trope, a hyperbolic claim that followed a predictable pattern:
Step 1: Take an issue of concern for Christians (e.g., abortion, sex trafficking, global persecution, the gospel).
Step 2: Claim that no one in our churches is talking about the issue.
Step 3: Assume the dual role of educator and Old Testament prophet by explaining why the issue matters and why the church must stand up and speak out about it.

'Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the LORD - Leviticus 19:14

The Pope’s approach is meet them where they are at, and build them from the ground up. Nit picking how individuals ‘word things’ isn’t the place to start. The above examples are people being told WHERE to be first, and we will go from there.

The role of church – Catholic or not – is to met the individual where they are instead. One place asks you to play the role, and acts like you have some contiguous disease until you can. The other is a place of peace that a injured person can come to for healing, love, and a warm heart.

“I see clearly,” the pope continues, “that the thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars! You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds.... And you have to start from the ground up. – Pope Francis

The role playing is a stumbling block.

What is the Stumbling Block?

A stumbling block isn’t something you can use just because something offends you. I mean the ridiculous could use that as an excuse for anything. In other words, anything that you do that they don’t like they can claim is a stumbling block.

When you encourage others to SIN - or follow your sinful actions - under the guise of ‘faith, biblical’ etc? You are a stumbling block to others. You say wrong is right. When you people call you out on it? You say right is wrong.

The examples I gave above of pastors or churches having wrong attitudes, thinking to much of themselves, picking and choosing which are truly repentant by their own standards. They encourage their following to do the same. When you do that? You are indeed a stumbling block.

With the Doug Phillips example? His following will not allow him to stay away to long, because they will fear their belief system may apart if that happens. So they will sugar coat things, and use terms like he is a fallen sinner like the rest of us to ease him back into his place. They encourage followers of their belief system to enable weak repentance, and tell them its acceptable under the circumstances. That is a stumbling block.

With the Steven Furtick and Elevation Church? They encourage their flock to circle the wagon, and tell them that the ‘world’ is attacking their good work. They will refuse transparency, accountability, or admit error because they give their followers the impression that you are giving into the ‘world’ and its standards if you do. They won’t even go far enough to clarify anything to remove the cloud of suspicion, but encourage paranoia and attacks towards others. Being afraid to show the world the light of truth they claim is there is a stumbling block.

When Doug Wilson mocks, calls people names, and reminds women are their servitude to him and all other males? He encourages males to think to much of themselves, and manipulates women and children into thinking they must bow to this new Lord and Master….because the bible tells them too. Twisting biblical concepts so you can have your pedestal of power, and lying to others to make them feel it is right? That is a stumbling block, because it encourages people to believe in the wrong Gospel.

The Gospel Coalitions young authors shame hurting people, and make fun of them by pointing out how their ‘hurt’ is really a joke. Encouraging others to approach with warmth, caring and compassion is God’s way – and a show of the fruit the bible speaks of. They instead encourage their followers to speak to hurting in a child like fashion, “Wahh! I’m so HURT, and I have to complain all the time that no one LISTENS”. Placing these types of articles on their ministry website encourages others to act the same to hurting people they run into. That is a huge stumbling block.

I used the Pope as an opposite example, because you can clearly see his warmth, compassion and care for the world. He is the first to remind you that he is a sinner first, and perfection is not possible. He wouldn’t reject you because you are not Catholic, and would welcome you right where you are. You don’t have to be Catholic or understand all aspects of it when you read this interview with the new Pope. A Big Heart Open to God. I encourage you to check it out, before listening to all the opinions we hear today. Make up your own mind, and don’t take my word for it.

With all the hate filled teachings towards homosexuality that seem so popular today? I felt and saw no fear mongering, warnings of dread, or distain in the following statement from him that I will leave you with today. Where to often we close the door on others the Pope encourages us to leave it open:

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. Here we enter into the mystery of the human being. In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them, starting from their situation. It is necessary to accompany them with mercy. When that happens, the Holy Spirit inspires the priest to say the right thing.

Crime Versus Sin–Does Paige Patterson know the difference?

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:15:00 -0500

There's no room in the church for whistleblowers – Paige Patterson

Paige Patterson started his sermon with 1 Corinthians 6. His main message was that you and I do not bring sin of the church out into the open so the media – or law enforcement – might judge it.

His message is called, So You Believe in the inerrancy of God’s word…well Bully for YOU!

Inerrancy, simplistically is basically the bible is accurate and completely free from error. I linked to a urban dictionary so you can see what is meant by Bully for YOU. I think in this case it’s basically saying GOOD for you with sarcasm.

Paige then goes into a lesson about why you should bring matters to the church, and not the media and as he also stated….law enforcement.

Funny thing is if humans in history had followed this belief system that even if the church is wrong? You need to ROLL with it? No one would have broke off from the main church back in history, and we wouldn’t have different denominations today.

All the theologians we like to read about, or love to death? For example, Luther, Calvin, Wesley and many others? They would be non existent, and we would still be under the rule of a cruel religious system.

Remember the history that when individuals tried to take things to the church the church ran right over them. They tortured people, and killed them. This was ‘church business’, and they shut you down with the threat of their power.

Sadly, it seems the church trying a different tactic. They can’t use the torture method of the past, but they will use lies and propaganda instead.

History is repeating itself, and the means maybe different….yet the message is the same.

No matter what ….. keep it in the church!

Morality of Knowing the difference between Sin and Crime

To me it seems these church leaders with all their education, study, and knowledge still don’t seem to grasp the difference between CRIME and SIN. I’m speaking more on a morality principal here. Crime is sin of course, but not every sin is crime as in police involvement, etc.

People LOVE to use the sexual abuse cover-up of the Catholic church against them for a host of reasons, and that circumstance does show they also didn’t view crime and sin properly at that time.

The Catholic hierarchy had the notion that child rape was a sin rather than a crime. Hence the emphasis on forgiveness, therapy, repentance - rather than removal, prosecution and investigation. Obviously, there's one reason for this: they were defending the reputation of the church by hiding its darkest secrets, and they were using the authority of religion to do so.

Faith organizations outside the Catholic Church do this as well, and they see it as somewhat different FOR THEM. I guess they feel they can do it ‘better’ or something. Yet, in most cases they do this for the same reasons: hiding its darkest secrets, and they are using the authority of religion to do so.

Now, I think we all realize there are certain circumstances that can be dealt with in the church. It’s the same with the personnel issues with the staff. Not every single item needs to be out in the open. Its better to handle gossip about members, or personnel issues like tardiness within the church. When aspects grow beyond the garden variety sins? They can be crimes, and no where in the bible will you find that we are NOT to take that to police.

Paige Patterson missed one KEY word in scripture he presented. That word ‘trivial’. How he could have missed it?

Trivial Matter or Not so Trivial…that is the question!

What would take for YOU to sue this institution if you worked for it? Paige Patterson asked an attorney that was applying for a job there – around 3:20 mark. The attorney stated it would have to be a circumstance in which his rights were seriously abused, and he was asked to give some examples.

Patterson asked him if those circumstances were in the bible, and the attorney stated he did not believe so. To which Paige Patterson giggled that he was NOT in the employment of this organization. To Paige this is common, because we live in a world of accusations.

Now my first thought was an attorney working with Paige Patterson isn’t going to bring a lawsuit against the organization over ‘accusations’. I mean lawyers realize you need more than that to do anything about it.

We also need to remember that in the past the church had the power to take the law into their own hands, and hand down punishment, judgment, etc. The church today can’t send someone to the RACK, or cut out their tongue and all those torture techniques anymore. WELL at least in most countries today.

You do find in most cases when an individual or groups of individuals bring the court or the media to the attention of the church? Its habitual criminal or unethical behavior.

We aren’t speaking of just plain sin here, but crime!

²Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? ³Do you not know that we are to judge angels?

Now you notice in the above the scripture mentions ‘trivial’ cases. Rape is not trivial, and child rape is certainly not either. The habitual covering up abuse cases isn’t trivial. Its not only sin, but a crime.

Folks if you are going to judge angels, and if you are going to judge the world don’t you think you can handle the same problems that happen in the Church of God? - Paige Patterson

⁵I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, ⁶but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? ⁷To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?

Next, Paige goes into hinting at circumstances are well beyond what you would consider ‘trivial’ cases. This is where they attempt to melt the trivial with the not trivial issues.

Its where the church gets themselves into trouble, because they do have a moral obligation to report crime! See below:

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, (14) or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

Yet, they feel their reputation would be stained. How little faith is my first thought. Sure, you may struggle because of the crime for a period. God will bless you for doing what is right, and his will – NOT OURS – be done!

I offer a different scripture that speaks to the spirit of the discussion:

1 Timothy 1:8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
(9) We also know that the law is not made for the righteous but for the law breakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
(10) for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers - and for whatever is contrary to the sound doctrine
(11) that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Accept Injustices because God told you TOO!

Paige Patterson states that people just want to go to the law, because they feel that the church FAILED them in the judgment process. They don’t feel justice has been served.

Why don’t you learn to just accept WRONG! Learn to accept INjustice! You say its no in my basic makeup to do that! You know I’m an Irish Texan so lets FIGHT! (giggles from audience) But is what God’s word demands. Why is that? Why would God say, “Why don’t you just accept wrong?” Why would he ask you to do that? WELL that all depends on your viewpoint of God! If in your mind and heart God is a JUST GOD that settles the issue Folks!

What that means is God eventually sets everything right. If you are wronged? Somewhere down the line God sets it right! Well you say, “Well he is to slow!” NOOO! He is right on time. When it needs to happen he will set it right. Than you say, “ I’m dying and he still hasn’t set it right!” No one said he will could set it right in this life! – Paige Patterson

What Paige needs to think about is if God feels there is sin in the church that needs to come into the light? He also will use his means to do it, and yes today that could very well be the media and the police.

No doubt the church may get it wrong from time to time on trivial matters. Yet, when its not the trivial matters and God is using the media or police? You also need to accept God’s decision.

Sadly, Paige Patterson seems to feel you are sinning against the church instead. The ‘crime’ against him is more important than the crime against society. No human is that important.

Again there is a BIG difference between SIN and CRIME! In the bible we read about punishments that people had to endure because of the crimes they committed, and the church sanctioned those punishments. The bible is full of stories of how people were punished for crimes during that period of history (Exodus has plenty of examples), and how many struggled with their sin (David, for example).

We also have examples later on in church history where the church used its powers to commit injustices….because they had the power to do so. That’s where the breaks from the church started, and the injustices of the church were the reason.

If what he states is true? We would only have ONE church, and not all these different denominations. Chances are Paige would NOT be in his position at the Seminary, because we may still be under rule of the Catholic Church.

Paige also feels people to just accept things as the people in leadership tell you to, and if its not right God will handle them. You may not see justice, but God will handle that in his own time. He may not show you his justice, because chances are you would ‘gloat’ about it anyway. He seems to feel that justice – that you could see - may damage your walk in faith.

Yes, he lays it on THICK doesn’t he?

You don’t take matters to the PRESS!

Paige Patterson next decided he would play God, and mention he will ‘expand’ on this scripture of 1 Corinthians 6. You don’t take matters to the media!

“If I had fifty dollars for every time that I have told somebody from the press: ‘I’m not going to comment on that because, frankly, it’s none of your business; it’s the church of God’ — if I had fifty dollars for every time I’ve done that, this would be a wealthy institution and you wouldn’t have to pay any tuition at all,” he said.
“I’m not going to talk to the press about things that are matters internal to the church of the Living God,” Patterson said. “It is none of their business. And they can’t possibly get it right, and they don’t get it right, so why do you take it to the world of unbelief? Whether that be the court, whether that be the press? ‘Well there’s just no other way to handle it.’ Yes there is. Commit it to the Lord God Almighty.”

Church history shows that the church doesn’t always get things right, and people have gone OUTSIDE the church….or tore off a piece to make a new church due to what Paige feel is ‘matters internal to the church of the living God’.

If we take this stern approach? All other denominations have their foundation firmly planted in SIN! How does he live with that reality? He doesn’t, and no doubt would think that concept is a joke. Yet, that would mean at times it is OKAY to go outside the church with matter beyond ‘trivial’. Yes?

⁹Or do you not know that the unrighteous^[b] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practise homosexuality,^[c] ¹⁰nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. ¹¹And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

…and IF you suffer for it. and IF you were misused! And IF you were abused, and if you are not represented properly! Its Okay. You can trust it (pointing up) to God who judges justly. May God grant that we do that. – Paige Patterson

Then he finishes with a prayer:

…That we won’t take our troubles to the press. That we won’t take out troubles to the government. That we won’t take our troubles anywhere except to the people of God, and beyond that to the Lord Jesus. And may we as a result present to the Lord Jesus upon his return a beautifully adorned Bride – the bride of Christ – Holy and Pure upon him. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.

When Pastor’s manipulate scripture in this manner their integrity comes into question. They pretend there is no difference between sin and crime. They do this to protect themselves, and they feel the reputation of the church. God doesn’t need their protection, because he is MORE than capable of taking care of it himself.

Let’s be honest with ourselves here! Paige Patterson is more concerned with HIS reputation, and his post of power. If he isn’t doing anything immoral or illegal? He doesn’t need to tell the press that church business its none of their business when they come to him with questions about his conduct. He should have nothing to hide. If he is doing nothing wrong? He should have enough faith to know that God will protect him, and hand out justice as he sees fit.

Cindy Kunsman today wrote an article about Hana Williams today. The Christian parents that beat her, and starved her to death were sentenced in court this week for their punishment. The father got 27 years, and the mother received 37 years. Their actions were sin of course, but thankfully people knew their was also a crime that needed punishment for the good of society.

Yes, it was okay to take those troubles to the court. There was nothing sinful about it.

When will we – the Body of Christ – demand our teachers of the church use discernment to know the difference between ‘trivial’ sins and crimes against society? Paige Patterson’s lesson shows clearly how they don’t have a clue.

So You Believe in the inerrancy of God’s word …..~~Well Bully for YOU!~~ just remember the word ‘trivial’ is there!

Exodus 23:1 Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a false witness.
(2) Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd,
(3) and do not show favoritism to a poor man in his lawsuit.
(4) If you come across your enemy’s ox or donkey wandering off, be sure to take it back to him.
(5) If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help him with it.
(6) Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits.
(7) Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty.
(8) Do not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds those who see and twists the words of the righteous.
(9) Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you where aliens in Egypt.

Additional Reading:

Why Paige Patterson's anti-outsider stance is wrong
And what about Patterson’s insistence that his anti-outsider stance is somehow biblical? If Patterson needs a biblical basis for doing what's right, then he should look to the first thing listed by the prophet Micah. “And what does God require of you? To act justly . . . .” (Micah 6:8)
Advocate says SBC leader gives bad advice
He said if law enforcement does not or cannot act to protect children “whistleblowers in churches should call journalists.”
“More wrongdoing in churches needs to be reported more often to more people who are more apt to stop it and prevent future wrongdoing,” Clohessy said.
“We hope every Baptist rejects this self-serving, unhealthy and often dangerous advice, especially when it comes to sexual and financial crimes, whether known or suspected,” he said.

Paige Patterson (SBC) Advice to Victims of Domestic Violence
Audio of Patterson telling the abuse victim to go home and pray for her spouse.
“I had a woman who was in a church that I served, and she was being subject to some abuse, and I told her, I said, “All right, what I want you to do is, every evening I want you to get down by your bed just as he goes to sleep, get down by the bed, and when you think he’s just about asleep, you just pray and ask God to intervene, not out loud, quietly,” but I said, “You just pray there.” And I said, “Get ready because he may get a little more violent, you know, when he discovers this.” And sure enough, he did. She came to church one morning with both eyes black. And she was angry at me and at God and the world, for that matter. And she said, “I hope you’re happy.” And I said, “Yes ma’am, I am.” And I said, “I’m sorry about that, but I’m very happy."

Act Like "Gentle" Men PLEASE!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:16:00 -0500

Matthew 7:¹⁵“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. ¹⁶By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? ¹⁷Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.¹⁹Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Join the Church and Get a Set of Knifes

Well it seems we had two popular ‘conferences’ to choose from in California this week.

Pastor John MacArthur has his Strange Fire Conference.

Strange Fire is a conference that will set forth what the Bible really says about the Holy Spirit, and how that squares with the charismatic movement. We’re going to address in a biblical, straightforward manner what many today see as a peripheral issue. On the contrary, your view of the Holy Spirit influences your relationship with God, your personal holiness, and your commitment to the church and evangelism.

Then you have the Mark Driscoll and James MacDonald running their “Act Like Men” Conference.

Men who are loud and ruthless about their own sin, but patient and full of grace in leading others. Men who long to follow God without limits and meet the needs of those around them without hesitation.

To get there we need radical surgery. It's time to cut deep and get it all, and not be afraid of what that means. We challenge you to join thousands of men for a two-day conference this fall-to step up with us and Act Like Men.

What happened to acting like GENTLE men?

We have seen in the past when one pastor’s don’t like something another pastor believes, preaches, teaches, etc. They can be either a gentleman about it, or sadly as we have what we have seen this week – a petulant child. Mark Driscoll gets the petulant child award this week!

No doubt neither of them agreed with the ‘others’ message this week, but holy mackerel you would think some could ‘act’ the role they get paid for. You know – pastor, teacher, leader, etc?!

Mark Driscoll’s behavior to me doesn’t show other’s how to ‘Act Like Men’. He tweets ahead of time that he planned to go to John MacArthur’s event to ‘hand out his newest book’ which doesn’t agree with the MacArthur’s main message for his conference.

Yes, we know that celebrities at times ‘tweet’ that they will be places where others can meet them. Pastor’s tweeting that they plan to come to the opposing event to hand out his books ‘opposing’ message? That’s not my vision of someone that wants others to ‘Act Like Men’. Establishments normally welcome celebrities and ‘twitter’ followers because it helps their bottom line, and gives them promotion.

Some how I don’t think The Strange Fire Conference took it that way. It doesn’t take ‘discernment’ to figure out WHY either!

As most of us know – or could understand if you didn’t – vendors are normally vetted at these events. The approved vendors then can hand out their literature, and sell their wears, etc. This is pretty common practice for a host of reasons.

I guess Mark Driscoll and James MacDonald decided to ‘Act Like Men’ and crash the event to hand out Mark’s latest book - and of course ‘autograph’ them if need be. They were approached, and asked to stop. Security it seems offered to walk him and his books back to his car. Yes, the vendor ‘vetting’ portion that no doubt Driscoll and MacDonald knew about – as I’m sure they have the same process – was explained to them.

To me, I can understand you being offended by the MacArthur’s conferences message. People do that have right, and you can ‘agree’ with MacArthur’s view as well. Different belief systems aren’t going away anytime SOON! For me personally? I think they are both a bit screwy!

Crashing an event like this is not what a gentleman would do. You don’t ‘tweet’ your maybe arrival if you have time, and act like WILL wonders ever cease - when asked to leave due to actions you KNEW would push buttons.

(giggles) I mean can you imagine what the response would be if a feminist group or gay pride group showed up at the ‘Act Like Men’ conference? Yikers!

James MacDonald didn’t like how some people showed up at his event – and they paid for the tickets and travel – only to be escorted out, and threatened with arrest. Yet, Mature and Acting Like Men MacDonald and Driscoll didn’t see a problem crashing someone else’s event while NOT paying for the tickets and travel. Okay then. They can pick and choose who is at their event, and BE MEN while crashing someone else’s. Sigh.

Yes, Driscoll acted as if he showed up to ‘bless them’ with his new book. (Yeah right!) They were his GIFT to them, and he showed up with boxes FULL of them. When he was finally escorted to his car? Mark Driscoll to let everyone know that the books were a ‘gift’ to the church location where the event was taking place.

Next thing you know he wanted to show others how to ‘Act Like Men’ once again, and tweets that security at the event confiscated his books. I guess he missed the part that plenty of others were around when he announced ‘his gift’, and they were rather upset when they were accused of ‘confiscation’ instead. Check out the screen shot of responses on Twitter over that: Driscoll Claims Confiscation of his Books

Yep, they know how to Act Like Men don’t they? NOT!

That Strange Fire he felt was NOT the symbol of Real Men. Teenage boys going out to crash a party MAYBE …. but then most of those boys GROW UP!

Comment I had to smile at: Sort of funny, really to watch this…. They both agree that the earth is flat, but can’t agree on whether it rests on the backs of seven elephants, or an endless stack of turtles. Utterly delusional. Both.

Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference? (PHOTOS)

Mike Riccardi, the local outreach pastor at Grace Community Church Speaks of what he saw

People need hope. Not an English Comprehension Lesson.

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Fri, 11 Oct 2013 10:14:00 -0500

It is these pearls that I encounter each time I dive below, into the dark and lonely cesspools of Christendom. They’ve been left for dead by much of the Church, yet they are the first to expend of themselves in pursuing and loving other hurting souls. Their own cries have been ignored, but they’re the first to listen to the cries of those around them. Though the commitment of the Church to abuse survivors is often self-centered and short-lived, the commitment these survivors demonstrate to each other is usually selfless and lifelong. - Boz Tchividjian

Joe Carter is one of the newer employee’s of the Gospel Coalition. He recently wrote an article that is leaving a bad taste in many mouths (Figure of speech Joe – Wink! Wink!).
It starts by:

For years it was merely an overused rhetorical trope, a hyperbolic claim that
followed a predictable pattern:

Step 1: Take an issue of concern for Christians (e.g., abortion, sex trafficking, global persecution, the gospel).

Step 2: Claim that no one in our churches is talking about the issue.
Step 3: Assume the dual role of educator and Old Testament prophet by explaining why the issue matters and why the church must stand up and speak out about it.

I read Boz’s opinion of victims speaking out about injustices they see in the church, and then Joe Carter shows the clear attitude they tend to be faced with presently. There is no hope there – something they clearly need – and he wants people to have a comprehension lesson for English.

It breaks your heart. One wishes to try to reach people where they are, and the other feels it’s a fun game to mock them into silence.

His technique is familiar to me! We have seen such pettiness before. Remember this article?

Should we be saying, “The Church Hurt Me”? Let’s review the logic they were attempting to ‘teach’ you with this article:

The person could mean the big-C Church has hurt them–all Christians everywhere. That sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? But think about it. When a person says “The church has hurt me” and they’re refusing to visit or join any local congregation of believers they have practically projected their hurt onto the entire universal body of Christ! They have assigned their offense to every possible Christian and Christian congregation imaginable. Practically, their distrust has reached universal proportions. In every case this is false. We might provide some of our best care by helping our friends recognize the practical universalism in some of their reactions. Hopefully we can get them to dial it down to the next possible level.

Can we say this is a TAD bit over the TOP? They may provide their best care recognizing a common form of speech isn’t to be taken so literally. Talking down to a hurting person isn’t going to help your case. You do want to reach them right?

This form of ‘emotional’ dribble maybe taken as mocking them, and you won’t get to far.

Let’s imagine a young person coming to them for counsel, because they were abused in the past in the church. Empathy, and a listening ear should come first.

Sadly, it seems being petty about the phrase they used would be given first. Do they really expect this person to trust them, or even truly finish what they have to say after that? Can we use a bit of common sense for goodness sakes!

Well it seems that Joe Carter decided to take the same route, and ignored the context – and then took it a tab bit over top once again.

Janet Mefferd Quoted the issue in a nutshell:

Carter thinks that if you say, “No one in the church is talking about (an issue).”you’re “slandering Christ’s bride” because you can’t know what every individual human in every church is saying. Fine, but that’s not the sense of the term “no one” when used in that context.

It reminds me of a time when my son was little and I said to him,

“Son! Its time to go we need to put our shoes on!”

Son says, “These aren’t shoes MOM their Sandals!”

Yes, my son ignored the context of my statement. At my son’s age when this statement was made? It made sense to him that it was TRULY was a hill worth dying on!

Yes, he was in that kind of mood. He was going to ‘show me’ that SANDALS was the more proper way of stating my request! The fact that sandals are in fact shoes? Made no difference to him. Yes, he could be a frustrating child at times. (giggles) Thankfully, he grew out of that!

Now I feel I’m back in my child’s toddler years, and I’m suppose to ‘acknowledge’ since you haven’t spoke to every human in every church you can’t know that ‘no one’ is talking about some subject. Is the man freaking serious? Grow UP already!

Why this is so important is beyond me, because not stating it HIS way truly isn’t ‘slandering the Bride of Christ’ by any stretch of the imagination.

I can’t believe he is that ignorant that he can’t grasp the intent of those words. What can I assume? The poor man isn’t going to get to far in ministry if he can’t reach people where they are – like Jesus did.

One aspect that came up between a twitter war between Joe Carter and Janet Mefferd was about a statement that Boz said.

While comparing evangelicals to Catholics on abuse response, ”I think we are worse,” he said at the Religion Newswriters Association conference, saying too many evangelicals had “sacrificed the souls” of young victims.

My Friend – Danni Moss – Who’s blog her family left up after she passed away? She has an article on there about the growing numbers of sexual abuse in churches. Her source? The churches insurance companies:

The Associated Press reported recently that three insurance companies receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by Protestant clergy, challenging the assumption that clergy sexual abuse is an exclusively Catholic problem that does not take place in other churches.
That is a higher number than the annual average of 228 “credible accusations” brought against Catholic clerics in records reported by the Catholic Church in response to media scrutiny, a priest observed in a Fox News commentary questioning why the story isn’t garnering more attention.
While the report about abuse in Protestant churches doesn’t absolve guilty Catholic priests or those who enabled them, said Father Jonathan Morris, it offers a more complete picture. “The problem of sexual abuse has no denominational boundaries,” he wrote.
The AP obtained figures on sex-abuse claims from three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America–Church Mutual Insurance Company, GuideOne Insurance and Brotherhood Mutual Insurance Company.

I suppose if Joe Carter was all that interested in ‘truth’ doing his own research like the AP reporter did – would happen.

Honestly? The show of true care and compassion towards victims would be along the lines of what Father Jonathan Morris stated above. There are no denominational boundaries. Who has MORE sexual perp’s isn’t important – hope for victims IS! Why are we missing the big picture here?

All you have to do is read some newspapers online, and sadly stories of Pastors – or church personnel – are in there almost everyday because they have been arrested. Something is clearly wrong with how we approach this subject, and we want to NIT PICK on how to phrase something before we address it?

Sadly, it seems ‘context’ isn’t big on the radar of individuals at the Gospel Coalition – among others ‘offended’ by this statement.

When you read what Boz had to said in context? The Evangelical Church should be ashamed of its arrogant attitude towards the Catholic Church.

The fact that Evangelical churches don’t have the same type of organizational structure as Catholics? It’s a perfectly legitimate smoke screen to use their type of structure to minimize abuse within their own ranks.

When you use ‘independence’ of churches? Distances them even further.

They are free from some the systematic and vast numbers of victims under the same umbrella. I mean you can’t ‘tie’ all the different churches together – we are all SEPARATE – so our numbers aren’t even CLOSE!

These men would make awesome politicians wouldn’t they?

Twist some differences just enough to attempt to show how they are COMPLETELY different….yet they aren’t. Yes, at this point you are supposed to drink the Kool-Aid and feel better about yourself. “We don’t have a child sexual abuse PROBLEM!” Talk about Slandering the Bride of CHRIST!

Lets move on to some aspects SOME actually can acknowledge – while others play their ‘Christian politician game’ shall we?

Mr. Tchividjian’s comment:

The greatest failure of the church/Christian organizations when it comes to responding to abuse is institutional self-protection. Too often Christian institutions have been willing to sacrifice the individual human soul in exchange for the protection of their own reputation.

Is so true!

Here are some other comments from a separate interview I found that we see all to often.

Why do some churches and other Christian institutions struggle with reporting suspected abuse to the civil authorities? Regardless of the stated reasons, the common thread running through this struggle is a “fear” that is rooted in self-centeredness. It is a “fear” of losing the “good reputation” of a ministry, it is the “fear” of losing ministry donors, it is the “fear” of losing congregation members, it is the “fear” of losing a ministry altogether, and all such “fears” are usually wrapped in a fundamental falsehood that reporting such abuse within the Christian community will “damage the cause of Christ”.[ix] Do you see the great tragedy of this self-centered fear? Ultimately, fear? Ultimately, it is an attempt to rob God of his sovereignty and glory by attempting to “protect” identities and possessions. This is in direct contravention of the Gospel.

God doesn’t need our protection, and sadly they forget the roles in that aspect are reversed.

We need HIM! The lack of faith within these churches just blows my mind. We see Job in the bible, and he had everything taken from him…WELL just about he still had God. Yes, that was all he needed. He still loved and obeyed him. In return, God gave back to him.

Seems preachers can preach about Job, but they don’t have the faith that he did. They would rather twist some scripture around, and throw people under the bus…for their ministry! I guess they feel God wouldn’t restore it.

Don’t you get that is what people are trying to point out? You aren’t suppose throw people under the bus, and FEAR for our ministry! Those abused people are more important to God.

Talk about lack of backbone! Churches can survive such an ordeal, and yet some don’t want to be bothered with such details.

A fundamental point that must be understood early on in this discussion is that the crime of child sexual abuse is not merely a personal offense, but rather it is an urgent public concern. Child sexual abuse does not even fit into the paradigm of which Jesus was speaking in Matthew 18. Jesus never intended his statements in Matthew 18 to be twisted into the required method for handling murder, rape, torture, kidnapping, or genocide. Child sexual abuse is not a private matter but rather a public and civic one, rightly under the sword of the civil authority. All are endangered by this crime against a little one.

There is another teaching of Jesus that regulates how child sexual abuse is to be handled procedurally. In Romans 13, Jesus tells us through the Apostle Paul that believers are to be subject to the civil authorities. They swing the sword as God’s ministers, bringing wrath upon evil-doers (Romans 13:1-4). Child sexual abuse has been deemed to be criminal by the civil authorities deserving of just punishment.

The scourge of child sexual abuse is not just a sin violating the 7th Commandment in Exodus 20:14 and Matthew 5:27-30, but it is also a criminal offense in all 50 States. It is not a matter which can be handled quietly between two persons or between two families, as was misguidedly done in Genesis 34 and in many churches today. It is a matter of public alarm, because of its pervasive, extensive, and expansive nature, causing a cascade of misery in countless lives. Additionally, the God-ordained civil authorities in virtually every jurisdiction mandate in some fashion that suspected child abuse be immediately reported to law enforcement.

When Christian organizations are to busy nit picking over silly things like figures of speech? That’s a sad state of affairs.

It seems the Gospel Coalition, and Joe Carter had their feeling hurt over a aspect of Church life that they would rather give lip service to – than acknowledge. When they would like to be handed stats, and proof – rather than see the more important aspect of helping the hurting?

They have lost the discernment they claim they have, and others need to use in this area.

You see the people you whined about Joe? They need hope – not articles about their use of the English Language. One is certainly more important to God than the other. People don’t need your encouragement to correct their wording when they need help either – and yet that is what you are teaching. You are teaching others, “Ignore them! They used one of those phrases we all know is ridiculous!’ Is that seriously the message you want to send?

You really need to go back to the basics of our faith.

Why speaking truth in love is not ‘slandering Christ’s Bride’

Where are the Voices? The Continued Culture of Silence and Protection in American Evangelicalism

Join Boz Tchividjian on Steve Brown Etc. for a discussion of what it takes to recognize, investigate and respond to child sexual abuse in religious institutions.

Janet Mefferd on Joe Carter: Round 2--'Carter's message to Christians is SHUT UP'

Language taken literally Cartoons

Flabby in Worship? Wow.

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:27:00 -0500

I grew up in a household that you knew you would be going to church each and every Sunday. Although compared to what seems to be popular today? No doubt some would have felt my parents had their roles reversed. My father was a hugely popular Sunday School teacher, and my mother was involved within the governing portions of the church and sang in choir. Yes, back in the 1960’s and before ‘women’ were allowed governing positions in some churches. They were both extremely good at what they did as well.

Are You a Part-Time Churchgoer? You May Be Surprised. Speaks about a fiction couple that serves their church by the husband being a deacon, and she helps the children’s ministry. They have a small growing family, and the author lists out of 52 Sunday’s how many they miss. The author also lists the reasons they miss church – including sickness. Then ends by saying people need to be reminded WHY we are called to worship, but reminds the audience its not because he wants you to feel guilt.

I felt it was rather swallow myself. People gather together all over this world inside and outside the church walls to do worship together. Making sure the church people see them there each week lest they be called ‘flabby’ is for appearance only.

In some areas of the world – like Egypt right now - Christians must worship in different ways because their church just burned down. It dangerous to take their family outside their homes, because they maybe killed. The picture is man worshipping in Egypt after his church was burned down. Flabby is not the first word that comes to mind!

Then you have those families in which they are dealing with critically ill, or disabled individuals. They worship at home with family, because its impossible at times to get to church.

Yes, you could EVEN decide to go out of town to have some family time alone. I guess what the author doesn’t realize is the fictional family is capable of doing worship OUTSIDE the church walls, and gather together to do so many times…even on different days besides Sunday. Its rather shallow to me to point out you must be in church to worship so we can see you lest we label you a part time church goer, and we need to write an article to remind you WHY you must worship.

We as a family did worship at home as well, and I remember in particular is the Advent Wreath. We had other family worship traditions, but the Advent Wreath is something that sticks out on my mind during our family dinnertime. Dinnertime was Worship time in our family.

When the year was starting to wind up to summer vacation? Our church each and every year would remind us NOT to forget about the church. The attendance normally dropped, because families were doing vacations and other things.

My family was no different. We would go to church during the summer, but we also had ‘family’ things we did during this time as well. We found creative ways of doing worship during those periods, and we gather together to do just that.

Why did we miss church?

Our family would normally go camping. My brother and I got to see all kinds of places when we were growing up. Camping was cheap, and neighbors shared their camping equipment. If it wasn’t for camping we would have NOT been able to see Yellowstone National Park, and other awesome locations.

We still laugh about the one night we had a major rain storm. My sleeping bag/air mattress was near the entrance of the tent , and it was running joke that I could sleep through a war. So NO I don’t remember much about the storm. In the morning, Dad got up to get out of the tent…stepped on my air mattress/sleeping bad, and all this water came RUSHING onto his socks. That morning was slept at the camp site’s laundry room pumping quarters into the dryer to dry out the sleeping bags.

My father traveled a lot for his job, and during the summer months it was easier for mother to place us in the car to drive to where my father was working. He would be gone for weeks at a time for these trips. His employer put him up at a hotel, and he was given money for food. We shared the room he got for work, and ate up some of his food allowance during these trips.

Since he was gone so much during the year it was a time we wouldn’t miss school, and we would have more time with him. Mother always made sure it was an educational trip as well. We learned the history of each location we went too. One trip in particular I remember was the hometown of George Washington Carver’s. He is known as the original ‘peanut’ guy, and he did much more than invent peanut butter!

Also during the summertime, my parents would send my brother and I to our relatives. It normally started with my parents loading us UP in the car, and driving 1/2 way down to met up with the grandparents in some different location each year. We would do some visiting there, and then the grandparents would take us the rest of the way to their homes. The reverse would happen when it was time to go home.

I think my parents used this time to get to know each other again, and spend some quality ‘alone’ time without the kids around. Can’t blame them THERE! I honestly couldn’t tell you about their church attendance then, because I wasn’t there. If I were guessing? They went!

So during these 3 months during the year our Church Attendance was ‘light’, but we always returned to our regularly scheduled program during the Fall! During these family times YES we did worship, but not for the world to see because we were sitting in our pews.

Times have changed, and so has the family. There are different reasons or circumstances that families miss church.

Recent statistics show that an increasing number of evangelicals who are firm in their faith are flabby in their practice of actually gathering with their brothers and sisters in worship. It’s the part-time syndrome, and it can sneak up on any of us.

Now, to be fair the author did attempt to let you know that people shouldn’t be ‘guilted’ into going to church, because that would miss the point of the purpose of being there. So, you have to wonder what the purpose was of the above, and the list of missed Sunday’s. It showed just the opposite, because he felt they needed to be reminded about the PURPOSE of worship.

As I mentioned above my parents would have us gather at home – on vacation or not – to do worship. The four of us were a gathering of brothers and sisters. Sure, we were not in the church building that our family dedicated more time to than just Sundays. We were gathering in worship though, and people do this all the time OUTSIDE the church. So, no offense but they seem a bit flabby in their grace and understanding of what this means.

Jesus didn’t have people ‘meet’ in a church building, and he preached his teachings in all kinds of different locations. After his death, once again a gathering of believers did not take place in a church building.

There are all kinds of people in the present day that have no church to go to, or have to meet in secret. They are able to gather together as brother and sisters in worship as well.

The formal and the non formal are both acceptable. They are both God honoring. One is not more flabby than the other. There are ALL kinds of ways to gather together. I find the article has a bit of manipulative spin to it.

The best way to respond is not with guilt or with a false grace, but with the reminder of the purpose of worship. You aren’t there to fill up at the gas station (after all, you can get some sort of spiritual sustenance by reading or listening to your preacher’s podcasts apart from the body of Christ). This is a distorted view of the purpose of gathering.
The author of Hebrews clues us in. Being with your brothers and sisters is where you are able to stir one another up to love and good deeds. It’s the place where the confession of hope is celebrated and put before you and where you are urged to cling to it tightly.
It’s not just the content you receive every week that is so formative; it’s the act of being together and making the Lord’s family your priority. It’s similar to a family that gathers every evening for a meal. The value is not in the specifics of your conversation, but the very act of demonstrating your love for each other.
We don’t go to church because of guilt. We are the church because of grace.
That’s what Geoff and Christine, along with you and I, need to remember.

I’m sorry but this person as a ‘distorted’ view of a Church goer. Formal gatherings seem to be counted more heavily in his view than other types of circumstances. Formal gatherings at church isn’t the only TRUE way of showing that the Lord is your families' priority. Missing church at times, or doing more informal ways – like it has to be done in SO many other parts of the world – doesn’t mean they do NOT cling to their faith tightly.

I would ask this author to acknowledge that people in his story demonstrate their love for the church, their family, and their dedication to the Lord by not only church attendance (part time or not). They spend time on your ministries within the church, and no doubt they also have a form of family worship. They GET the purpose of WORSHIP here!

Taking time as a family to do life a little different from time to time doesn’t mean their dedication has swayed. It doesn’t show they can’t demonstrate their love for one another. You are using GUILT when you list the number of Sunday’s they miss, and call them a Part Time Church goer in your presentation. It is a checklist for you – be honest!

In my childhood our time together was a blessing that God granted us. Our missed church attendance was filled with other things at times, but we still gathered together for worship in other ways. Our dedication to our church was always present, and honored. It didn’t disappear just because someone wants to keep a checklist over our missed Sundays, and our reasons for doing so.

The best way to respond is not with guilt or with a false grace, but with the reminder of the purpose of worship.

Pleasssse! Most dedicated Christians know what the purpose of worship is. Do you seriously think that Geoff and Christine in your story do not understand this concept? If so, why are they part of your Church board, or ministries that teach children? They were asked to do those things because DO UNDERSTAND this!

When you hint that going to church is the most important : act of being together and making the Lord’s family your priority? You seem to be hinting that a family isn’t capable of doing so outside your walls. How they have been brought down to PART SIDE believers, Dedicators, and Worshipers. Not so.

So Yeah. You pretty much laid on the guilt, and false grace. There is a life of worship outside the church walls, and its been done for centuries. Hardly Flabby.

Now you get 'juice bars and skinny jeans’ at church. Seriously? That’s all you heard?

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:35:00 -0500

The church claims they hear the Millennial generation, but are they listening? They haven’t been listening for generations now! Sadly, they just think they are.

I’m NOT a millennial, but I would be guilty of the generation that gave birth to them. Yet, I can understand their complaints. Our generation raised complaints, and we were ignored and spoken down to as well.

I realize some of the older generation – like mine – will throw out the stereotype about the generations ‘issues’. WELL all generations had them, and some young people walk away from church….and come back when children are born.

Once they leave again after that? Chances are pretty good its not over all the labels or issues that the present generation is handed. Its normally MUCH larger than that. To me? That’s where they miss the boat…

Things have been going downhill since the 1980’s – if not sooner. I guess its our children’s chance to have a running start, and bang into that brick wall now.

Acknowledge and Deal with the Changes in Culture

When you don’t listen to the millennial generation’s parents? You can be pretty much secure in knowing their children will figure it out as well. Problems don’t go away when you ignore them, but tend to get worse.

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.

In the present culture you have the internet, and in my generation you had the start of cable tv (when I was teen I believe). Our worlds were starting to open up, and come to find all the messages you told us about being the ONLY one that felt that way? Hmm. I guess NOT so much! That’s why we are questioning you….

Your words had power when we were isolated, but now that the world as opened up? We find others that realize some of the things you say don’t make sense either.

For me personally at times the church’s viewpoint was almost superstitious. You need to keep sheltered, because otherwise you will be contaminated. That doesn’t say much for our strength in faith.

You have to act a certain way, dress a certain, worship a certain way…so as we see it the church created an environment at times that made people compelled to hide sin. You can’t show that ‘contaminated’ side. If you point that out? We were told this church attitude isn’t there, and we are seeing things or making things up so we can sin. It’s a smoke screen!

You ask about WHY we are leaving, and we tell you. Then you blame us for our answers.

Rachel Held Evans wrote a article called, ‘Why millennials are leaving the church’. She got the response that is expected.

How people overly critical, and you need to learn to love us anyway.
We are important.
Our way is important.
You need to see that.

But I don't think Evans and other Millennials are leaving the church because they don't find Jesus. My suspicion is they're wagging their fingers at the church because they don't find the Jesus they want. Evangelicalism certainly isn't flawless. However, I think Evans' claim that Jesus is absent from "the church" is absurd. Not only is it theologically false, it's a slap in the face to Christ's bride, a purely rhetorical statement that simply provokes controversy rather than fostering Christian unity. - The Church Is a Harlot, But I Love Her

Don’t feel bad Millennials! We were told we wanted our ‘ears tickled’.

Today it seems like church can be an infomercial! They want to FIREPROOF you, and here on some addons that you might enjoy! The study book, the posters, the online petition to show your agreement!

(Although you don’t feel that FIREPROOFING method towards the Millennial’s do you?)

Don’t get into that? We have all kinds of material that cover ‘feeling-logy’. It reminds you to fill your spouse’s love tank, guilt them that you don’t feel the ‘love and respect’ that your ‘gender’ should get UNconditionally. Did they mention the audio workbook, and their seminar coming to a town near YOU?!

Just throw in a bit of confusion to keep you guessing? (snickers) The old stand by, “Love is not a feeling!” Okay. I guess respect isn’t either right?

OH! Make sure you find that newest and bestest ‘clic’ group to PLUG into! Can you just SEE Jesus all around US?!

That’s your version of modernizing church? We need more than a TV commercial!

What kills me is the attitude is pretty much: It’s a shame your leaving the church, and missing out on God and/or Jesus.

You don’t tell people that when they mention they see no Jesus in your church that they are blind and deaf, because he is there clear as day!

That’s not what keeps them in church, but it sure will drive them away. Why are you not asking questions? All you do is give answers!

The millennial generation just told them that they are leaving, because they don’t see Jesus there! Were they heard?

No. The church isn’t listening, because many from MY generation have been saying this as well. I get it. They didn’t listen to us either. I mean the population of the church didn’t just start falling once the millennial generation was born. Although they want to pretend it did!

Sadly, now its getting into crippling numbers and they are still making excuses for themselves.

The BS meter and the Spiritual Pixie Dust

I loved Rachel’s description:

But here’s the thing: Having been advertised to our whole lives, we millennials have highly sensitive BS meters, and we’re not easily impressed with consumerism or performances.
In fact, I would argue that church-as-performance is just one more thing driving us away from the church, and evangelicalism in particular.

What she calls ‘highly sensitive BS meters’ is so true! I tend to refer to it as ‘spiritual pixie dust’. You sprinkle it around, and it has magical powers that change everything to ‘lovely’ if you have JUST enough faith.

Too many churches are so afraid of the realities of those outside their bubbles of protection. Jesus never said life would be lovely, and did speak about how to love and support others within those periods of life that are hard.

He said it was OKAY to get real, and mourn with those that mourn! He certainly didn’t say, “You need meat? My newest bible study is ALL meat and potatoes! Buy it! You will be FILLED!”

From my prospective? The church community in question also tends to deal in extremes, and just plain doesn’t know what to do with the reality outside the church walls. They have a packet of predetermined answers, and want you to get the impression that they have answered ALL the mysteries that have any substance.

I mean just ASK them and they will TELL you! Then hand you their most current autographed copy of their newest book! It’s the newest trend of AWESOME don’t you know?!

The problem is many of us have become overly critical, tearing down instead of building up. If we're not careful, and don't appropriately discern our motives, our criticism can quickly turn to arrogance and divisiveness. - The Church Is a Harlot, But I Love Her

I had a good giggle at this quote, because if you read enough on the opinions of feminism and homosexuality at church? Their ‘overly critical’ attitude has given way to divisiveness. Yet, their form is ‘biblical’, but questioning that is NOT!

Want more?

Heck look at the discussions between Complementarian and Egalitarians! What about Calvinism versus Arminianism? People have been speaking out about the ‘arrogance and criticism’, and the tearing down, and not building UP over differences of opinion for HOW long now?

Show us some discernment PLEASE!

“Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and have the best seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets. They devour the widows’ houses and for the sake of appearance say long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”
(Luke 20:46-47)

When you Ignore the crazy stuff we Call OUT!

The To Millennials, or others who are exasperated with what you find in churches … Don't give up hope. We need you to bear witness to a different way WITHIN our churches. Talk with the leaders of your churches, challenge them to read books with you and discuss them. Dare to imagine and seek a meaningful life that is centered in your church community. Find a congregation that you have some connection to and can at least tolerate, and stay put; be patient, and always keep asking and seeking, even when doing so isn't always appreciated. Find friends in your congregation that will commit to staying put and asking and seeking together with you.

No offense, but its been 50 years of asking. (Remember they claim it started going down hill after the 1960’s feminist’s. Yep. Its been that long!) How many more years of being told you’re the ‘bad guys’ do we take before someone will listen? When does it happen?

Now you get 'juice bars and skinny jeans’ at church. Seriously? That’s all you heard?

The church gets called out on crazy actions, responses, and sermons that MAKE no logical sense! You say its ‘biblical’ or ‘spiritual’ or ‘Godly’, and then close the comment section to your website. Real life discussions aren’t much better. In other words, “Discussion OVER!”

That’s not listening. That dictating. There is a huge difference.

Shall we look at a couple of ‘bizarre’ examples? The ones they have all the answers for EVEN after they get called out on it?

John Piper tells the wife of an abusive husband to say:

“Honey, I want so much to follow you as my leader. God calls me to do that, and I would love to do that. It would be sweet to me if I could enjoy your leadership. But if you ask me to do this, require this of me, then I can’t go there.”

Yes, the sound of the sweet spiritual pixie dust! The response, “Well it is ‘biblical’ after all!” If you DARE to sigh at the ignorance?

Their next response is, ‘What if you try the LOVE dare, and FIRE PROOF approach?’ (shivers) Seriously?!

When the genders differences are approached, and people mention the church is going a little over the top?

We are accused of ‘blurring the genders’ or wanting ‘sameness’. How we just want genderless beings:

In doing so, men will not be trained to be “men” since there is really no such thing. Women will not be encouraged to be “women” since there is no such thing. The assumption of differences becomes a way to oppress society and marginalize, in their estimation, one sex for the benefit of the other. Once we neutralize these differences, we will have neutered society and the family due to a denial of God’s design in favor of some misguided attempt to promote a form of equality that is neither possible nor beneficial to either sex.

Women that don’t buy your line of bull? We are dished up:

Now days, the epitome of empowered womanhood is to live a self-serving, self-righteous, neurotic, narcissistic, superficial, and adulteress life. The main character in Sex in the City series wraps it up well when she counsels women that, “The most exciting, challenging, and significant relationship of all is the one you have with yourself.” – Mary Kassian, Be June Clever not Murphy Brown

When men question the approach to their hypermasculinity?

The problem in the church today is just a bunch of nice, soft, tender, chickafied church boys. 60% of Christians are chicks and the 40% that are dudes are still sort of...chicks. It's just sad. -Mark Driscoll

Sigh…I won’t even TOUCH the over sexualized versions of ‘faith’. This blog isn’t R rated!

I could write a book about your animosity (that you won’t acknowledge either) towards single people, and childless couples. That should bring you great shame, but instead your riding HIGH on your level of ‘biblical’ living instead. Whatever that is.

You Think The Worse of Things, and Then Tell Us You Don’t EITHER!

The church also tends to ‘think the worse’ about the culture itself. Funny, how they TRY to teach you IN church to think the best…talk about confusing! Granted, some cultural approaches are rather ‘in your face’, but you should be able to look past that to grasp the message.

Instead you take it personally, and automatically its some scheme to undermine the church and some belief system you put in place.

Remember the ‘slut walks’? It started with an police officer doing a rape prevention talk, and decided to HECK with the facts and studies LADIES stop dressing like sluts and you won’t get raped!

Despite the evidence that shows rapist’s tend to look for opportunity compared to the theory of dress?

Despite the many OTHER proven factors?

We MUST accept the ‘culture’ is against modesty. Why? They aren’t one of US! If the cultural groups doesn’t make that clear enough for you – HECK we add in some zingers for you JUST to make our point!

Barnett organized a protest march to the Toronto Police Station, which she dubbed "S#utWalk." Through it, she hoped to raise society's collective consciousness, and to encourage girls to:

"reclaim" the word "s#ut" and other such negative male-defined labels,

exert their right to reject male-defined, patriarchal norms of female dress and behavior, and

protest a culture that puts blame on the victims of sexual assault.

- Mary Kassian

Lets look at what the organizers in question REALLY stated:

Their goal: to shift the paradigm of mainstream rape culture, which they believe focuses on analyzing the behavior of the victim rather than that of the perpetrator.

See how WELL they line up together? NO?! That’s called YOUR Adventures in Missing the Point, and we NOT suppose to notice that. It’s much better if WE just accept YOUR opinion on how they are attacking modesty instead.

It lines up with their teachings SO well, and their UPCOMING seminar!

We are not suppose to notice your defensiveness!

You think because people criticize some of the popular players out there, and some of the nutty and dangerous stuff they say…. is because people just want to have their ears tickled?

When they are called on their current line of bull their AMEN supporters come out, and the dialog is shut down we should STILL feel we have a voice? Explain how that works again?!

That’s not Jesus. That’s propaganda. You offer up a juice bar, and a pastor in skinny jeans to look ‘modern’ as a concession. That doesn’t address the problems. It shows our concerns fell on deaf ears. The lap dogs of the past are in the PAST! Hello! Are you listening?

People aren’t all moving away from Christ, but they are moving away from Church. We can gather together with friends in the ‘world’, or on the internet. We can can have bible studies, debates, and worship in very different and creative ways. We have found we can have friends with differences of opinions on gender roles, equality, and more importantly scripture without the shaming, name calling, and talking down to others.

Some are lucky enough to find churches that fit them, and have an open mind. It would be amazing if they were easier to FIND!

We don’t need others to ‘demand’ authority, and tell us we should respect that. We have groups of individuals that we know that have ‘authority’ in areas, but not the worldly type that you preach. Their authority is the type that doesn’t need discussion, and recognition. Its plain as day to everyone, and no words need to be spoken about it.

We can firmly reject those that claim you must do ‘faith’ our way otherwise your salvation could be in question! Instead we choose those that admit they are fallen individuals that struggle at times, and their ‘image’ of church will not fall apart so they must HIDE their aspects of sin.

We don’t agree with your version of the image of Christ that needs saving in this way. Our failings don’t hurt his image. He is above an PR campaign you can come up with!

With all the ugly circumstances in the bible that are written about? You seriously think Jesus needs image ‘saving’? You still think a group of ‘perfect people’ is the only answer after all those circumstances listed in the bible ALONE? He is WHOM he is despite US! Don’t you get that?

We don’t need to save Jesus – HE SAVES US!

Don’t get me wrong – not everything you do is wrong. You do have some good aspects like everyone else in this world. You do. We admit it. It’s the deaf ears and the cold heart we object too.

Your lack of acknowledgement over BLATANT errors, and the formulas you hand over to get that perfect life. Those don’t line up no matter what advertising campaign you come UP with next. I mean life never has worked that way. Why would it change now that you hired a NEW marketing company to promote it?

Jesus made us all custom, and that means we all different. He said that was good. We struggle with real problems, and not some strange versions of life you come up with. Christ is perfectly okay with that as well, but what we don’t understand is why you are NOT!

Life can be hard enough without all this fantasyland stuff. Don’t talk at us – talk with us. This time? Listen, and open your heart a little. If you can’t? We will continue to walk.

And when we walk? Most people will grasp that the ‘blaming’ of the Millennial generation is for your benefit and ego only. It is what it is.

Additional Resources:

Under Much Grace Articles on the Millennial Generation
Generation Gaps and the Moral Imperative of Totalitarian Niceness
1. Listen to me.
2. Don't label me.
3. Don't be so smart.
4. Put yourself in my place.
5. Be genuine.
6. Be my friend with no other motives.

[D]mergent
they go to church, and instead of hearing about how to live with those who’ve been kicked to the curb, how to be Christ to a world caving in on itself, they hear about how the church’s job is to maneuver itself into positions of power, respectability, relevance, etc. They hear about committee meetings and deficit budgets and why it is imperative that we “keep Christ in Christmas.” They hear a baptized politics that exhorts them to be good moral “individuals” who seek a “personal relationship with Jesus,” but their relationship to the poor and the powerless, their relationship to an economic system designed to serve the interests of those already on top at the expense of those on the bottom, their relationship to a government that starts preemptive wars based on a conceit, their relationship to God’s creation–these are largely matters of indifference to the church. These young people go to church and hear why (if they happen to be at a conservative church) gay people are going to hell, or (if they happen to be at a more “progressive” church) why it might upset the ecclesiastical apple cart if we were to say that gay people are created in the image of God–exactly the way God wanted them.

Barna Group
“This transience stands in contrast to the staid, predictable, and often overprotective experience that most churches seem to offer. The gap is simple: Millennials are a generation that craves spontaneity, participation, adventure and clan-like relationships, but what they often find in churches are featureless programs and moralistic content. Leaders who hope to alter the spiritual journeys of today’s Millennials need to embrace something of a ‘reverse mentoring’ mindset, allowing the next generation to help lead alongside established leaders. Millennials need to find spiritual rootedness, but that’s not simply to preserve old ways of doing church.
“During the last 16 months of touring, our team learned that Millennials are more willing to be challenged than most church leaders are willing to challenge them. However, this does not mean simply confronting Millennials to become more conventional and embrace what they may see as ‘boring’ or ‘outdated’ forms of spiritual expression. It means inviting them into the Christian community as valued members of that community to create a new, courageous sense of home.”

Modesty is more than a dress code!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Sun, 7 Jul 2013 11:11:00 -0500

The Modesty Train has left the station, since we know summertime in the USA is here. I get so sick and tired of all the speeches on what to wear so you don’t cause men to stumble. Most of the time you see mature women dressing appropriately in church, or elsewhere. You also have most men that can handle the visual deal just fine. Is this the only thing they have to say about modesty?

Sadly, other portions of the modesty definition are completely ignored. I have a video clip of a pastor showing immodest behavior, and he feels he is justified and entitled to use it.

Pastor Jim Standridge is acting like a teenager – or toddler throwing a hissy fit. Telling people from his pulpit JUST what he thinks about things in order to humiliate them…and then calls it love. His conceit is showing, and he tells the world he doesn’t care. Nice. No doubt the man thinks he is the clothing police as well.

Modesty is more than a dress code

Modesty also includes attitude. When you are reading or being taught something, and you know the teacher is using shaming language? That isn’t modest. Its very immodest in fact.

When you have a preacher up in the pulpit reminding everyone how important they are, and how they are to be revered? They are being boastful, and that is also immodest.

Your delivery towards others shows the attitude, and if you have a stinky attitude? You can be wearing the most modesty attire on earth…and you are still being immodest.

Philippians 2:³Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. ⁴Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. ⁵Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,^[a] ⁶who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,⁷but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,^[b] being born in the likeness of men.

I remember as a little girl, and going to visit my grandmother. She would push and push for me to put dresses on. She felt it was the thing to do if you are to be a proper young lady. I remember putting on dresses to go to church, and my brother and I were honored guests that week.

What always bothered me was their speech.

Consider if your language shows respect for those around you.

They saw nothing right with the world, and matter of fact they loved to nit pick almost every aspect of what people did – right or wrong. It wasn’t just the ladies that did this either. You heard it from the pulpit as well.

They made some good points at times, and other times to me they were just being mean and vicious. They did things better than the world, and their proper attire, proper way of worship, bible study, etc. I never quite understood HOW they felt they were coming across with humility and humbleness.

They would dress in the most modest ways, but I’m sorry they were NOT modest! Lets be honest here – it was conceit!

The proper girl’s dress, or the proper men’s suit and tie wasn’t a show of proper Christlike behavior when you go around with the attitude of ‘Thank GOD we are NOT like THOSE people!’.

When you point this out? Most of the time you are received with diversion tactics. How we are to not to be like the ‘world’, and how we are to be obedient, and maybe my biggest problem is I would rather go with my sinful nature than to follow God’s ways!

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will” (Romans 12:2).

Key point here is renewing of your mind. Rules, and ugly attitudes don’t do that. Being defensive doesn’t do that. Informing others they are being ‘worldly’ when they don’t agree with something doesn’t do that either. Matter of fact – its immodest.

Galatians 5:¹³You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh^[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. ¹⁴For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”^[b]¹⁵If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

Galatians 5:13 In contexts like this, the Greek word forflesh (sarx) refers to the sinful state of human beings, often presented as a power in opposition to the Spirit; also in verses 16, 17, 19 and 24; and in 6:8.

(6:⁸Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.)

Modesty is about acknowledgement, humility and grace…

In other words, the attitude a Christian should reflect is one that focuses on the needs and interests of others. Without question, that does not come naturally to us.

You don’t justify your immodest behavior, and then wonder WHY you can’t keep your attendance numbers high…and the youth don’t go to church once they are old enough to say NO!

Studies have shown they might get new people from other churches, or the children of church members. Majority of their numbers come from those sources. That’s not growth, and it should be a red flag! Their pride refuses to acknowledge their immodest behavior!

Jesus – his way is attractive, welcoming, and loving. That doesn’t mean you don’t get rebuked, but it is done with the proper attitude. Sadly, churches today to often do NOT reflect this. They would rather listen to the ‘amen’ crowd then take the speck out of their own eye. This also does not reflect a modest stature.

While they give others speeches on how men are visual, and how women cause their brothers to stumble…people are asking them about their attitude and delivery. People get the response that its more YOUR problem than their CONTENT or DELIVERY! This also is immodest.

They know something is wrong, and when you try to point it out? They won’t receive criticism, rebuke, or even consider that other’s may have point. They are told ‘they just want to do life by the world’s standard!” Funny how they never see that response as reflective of them. This is being defensive…also immodest.

They do not make themselves approachable, and they can be kind if you stay clear of certain subjects or points of views.

¹⁶So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. ¹⁷For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever^[c] you want. ¹⁸But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
¹⁹The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality,impurity and debauchery; ²⁰idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions ²¹and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Modesty in behavior exists when people act appropriately in specific settings. It includes being polite and respectful to others. Christians are seen as intolerant, because their behavior or words show that they are not tolerant, polite, nor respectful. Yes, you can present your opinion without coming across as nasty. When you can’t do that? Its immodest.

²²But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ²³gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. ²⁴Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. ²⁵Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. ²⁶Let us not become conceited,provoking and envying each other.

Pastor throwing a hissy fit, and shows immodest behavior

Here is a pastor that thinks to much of himself, and his message. He does NOT follow the proper way of approaching something he feels is sinning (Matt. 18), and decides to humiliate him in front of a crowd. Once the pastor’s juices get flowing he also moves on to others in the crowd, and points out what he sees as their errors.

He states he did everything right. Jesus wouldn’t do it this way. When he is called on his misbehavior (news interview) he justifies himself, and says it is love. What he can’t grasp is his behavior, attitude is immodest… his dress doesn’t mean a damn thing if the rest of definition isn’t present.

The loving thing to do is call these pastor’s out on their immodest behavior. Chances are they won’t receive it, because they are the only ones that are suppose to do that. How due to their position they are above all that, and you should ‘submit’ to them.

HELLO! Modesty is more than a dress code!

Jahmene Douglas Titanium

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Wed, 26 Jun 2013 12:48:00 -0500

Recently, I came across a video by a young many named Jahméne Douglas. From what I understand he is in a competition on the show called, X Factor. They judge forms of entertainment on this show, and Mr. Douglas sings.

If you take a look at his audition you can see why he is so popular right now. He just blew the judges socks off!

Jahmene Douglas audition sings Etta James ‘At Last”

He released a song recently called, ‘Titanium’. All its proceeds are going to the domestic violence organization in England.

Jahmene, 22, who still suffers after witnessing Mandy being tortured with a blowtorch by his dad, is also a youth ambassador for the charity. His first single will be released next week and he has vowed to donate his profits to Women's Aid, as a way to continue improving services for domestic abuse victims.

He speaks about the domestic violence he grew up with, and how his father went to jail for the last time he tortured his mother. Sadly, he lost his brother to suicide and it was said he did this because he couldn’t take the pressure, torture of the family dynamics that plagued him his whole life.

He speaks about how his faith helped him in his childhood, and how he made the decision to be opposite of his father as far as demeanor and his abusive nature. He seems like a shy young man, and very devoted to his mother. He looks forward to having his own wife and family once the time comes.

I have enclosed his video called, Titanium. All profits from the sale of this song will go towards the Women’s Refuge, and help those dealing with domestic violence.

Jahmene Douglas Titanium

Here are the Lyrics:

You shout it loud, but I can't hear a word you say
I'm talking loud, not saying much
I'm criticized, but all your bullets ricochet
you shoot me down, but I get up

I'm bulletproof, nothing to lose
fire away, fire away
ricochet, you take your aim
fire away, fire away
you shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium
you shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium

Cut me down, but it's you who'll have further to fall
Ghost town and haunted love
Raise your voice, sticks and stones may break my bones
I'm talking loud, not saying much

I am titanium

Stone hard, machine gun
Fired at the ones who run
Stone hard, as bulletproof glass

You shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium
You shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium
You shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium
You shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium

I am titanium

X Factor finalist Jahmene Douglas proudly shows off his brave mother Mandy at Empowering Women Awards

Mandy Wood (his mother) donation page for Domestic Violence

Me winning would give mum that hope she's always needed to move on

X Factor's Jahmene Douglas: “My mother’s screams will stick with me until the day I die”

The Church Hurt ME! Should we say that?

eaandfaith@yahoo.com (Hannah) — Sun, 23 Jun 2013 21:19:00 -0500

Should we be saying, “The Church Hurt Me”? This was a title of a rebuke article over at the Gospel Coalition this last week.

I thought to myself – WOW talk about bad taste to bring up such a thing after some pretty ugly opinions in the light of the ‘alleged’ victims of C.J. Mahaney’s network of churches. Remember this was just a week PRIOR!

Are they seriously that out of touch?

Remember this tends to be a figure of speech. Most of the time people are referring to a principal of hurt they experienced at a church. The author went the literal route. As in every Christian on earth, and every Christian Organization HURT me.

I guess if it wasn’t published so quickly after the SGM Scandal I might not have such a bad taste in my mouth. I would still think it was a bad approach being so literal, but it wouldn’t seem so ugly if the circumstances were NOT as they are!

Timing is key at times, and under the circumstances the author seems to be speaking of some petty things in comparison to the ‘alleged’ lawbreakers at Sovereign Grace Ministries they supported just a week prior. When you think the of heat they took after their statements? It looks really bad.

Here are some items the article brought up for discussion.

Failure to hear the person's feedback on controversial issue.
Refusal of certain type of service.
Church member offending you in some way

Now, under normal circumstances I can see addressing these items. Yes, some people do get very hurt or dismayed at church. Heck I suppose even as ‘literally’ as the author wrote to be as well.

Although since we aren’t under normal circumstances? Taking a phrase that people use – when you are under criticism of enabling ‘alleged’ lawbreakers?

Timing of this type of rebuke is just distasteful.

The Universal Church

The person could mean the big-C Church has hurt them–all Christians everywhere. That sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? But think about it. When a person says “The church has hurt me” and they’re refusing to visit or join any local congregation of believers they have practically projected their hurt onto the entire universal body of Christ! They have assigned their offense to every possible Christian and Christian congregation imaginable. Practically, their distrust has reached universal proportions. In every case this is false. We might provide some of our best care by helping our friends recognize the practical universalism in some of their reactions. Hopefully we can get them to dial it down to the next possible level.

The person could also mean Sovereign Grace Ministries under C.J Mahaney’s authority, and the brotherhood of pastors that stood by him due to friendship. OH YES, as they also threw the victims under the bus!

Again most of the time people are talking about a ‘circumstance’, and to try to make your point by being ‘literal’? Universalism maybe?

Some have every reason for the mistrust, and not everyone that gets ‘hurt by the church’ means EVERY universal aspect of Christianity. Your application is ridiculous!

Maybe we need to, “Check to see if someone is referring to a principal of a circumstance – and not literal’.

Sounds a little silly to ask people to ‘dial it down’, because honestly? He used the same extremes he accuses others of.

I realize the author most likely wasn’t addressing this group of individuals, but more along the types of circumstances he mentioned. I get that. Problem is when the wounds are fresh like they are? You need to at least mention something to them. You should understand that some of them have said the very same things, and for good reasons.

You don’t write an article to rebuke people over petty items compared to the here and now circumstances his own ministry is dealing with (Rebukes of their support). Can we get real here for a moment?

Sadly, they are showing how completely insulated they are from the world their audience lives in. Honestly? All it would have taken is a short disclaimer. I have no doubt he doesn’t even grasp how ugly this sounds.

Shall we look at his points?

1. Take your pain to the Lord who bore your pain and bore the sin of those who offended. In His arms are 10,000 charms.

2. Take your heart to the ones who actually offended you and seek reconciliation–and if necessary take godly, impartial help.

When I see this type of instruction it is rather patronizing to those that are mourning families involved with the Sovereign Grace Ministries scandal. People that have ‘allegedly’ been harmed by forms of ‘spiritual abuse’, and manipulating scripture to fit an ideology.

If we glance at some of the family stories you will find a small child right out of ‘toddlerhood’ being asked to come to a meeting with their pedophile for ‘reconciliation’, and to show forgiveness. The leadership of the church called this meeting – not the wounded family. When the leadership was called out on this type of thing? They ignored the rebuke, and a lawsuit followed. I hope you asked them to dial down their ‘universalism.

This family was ‘hurt by the church’. Figure of speech – not literal!

What seems to be a pattern with some churches to never use ‘traumatic’ events like this, and it is what most think of when others speak of being hurt by the church. After what happened recently? Why wouldn’t they?

When you are writing an article like this on the coat tails of your followers being highly offended by using ‘friendship’ as a basis for ignoring this type of pain? It would be common sense to view the article being presented in bad taste – and even offensive. Did you acknowledge those comments under your article?

You see the brotherhood of pastors refused to acknowledge those they ‘offended’, and cut off the paths to reconciliation. Remember the removing of their statement off Facebook when they didn’t like the comments? Placing it on another website, and closing the comments completely? Its sad that they don’t see how tacky that is – at the very least!

3. Stop saying, “The church hurt me.” It’s affecting your heart toward an entire congregation, many of whom are likely unaware and uninvolved in your hurt, and possibly affecting your heart toward all Christians everywhere. Don’t blame “the church.” Don’t spread your “hurt” over a wider area. If you do, it will dominate you. But if you target your pain and your reconciliation efforts–making it as small and specific as you can–you’ll experience greater control over and freedom from the hurt.

Stop taking a general term that most can realize the meaning of, and hinting that your definition only is appropriate one under the circumstances.

Most people can ‘discern’ what people are driving at by talking to them when they use this term. In most circumstances a validation with a pure heart and intent could move mountains, and will crush the domination you see.

If you can’t reach people where they are? Those very TRUE statements you do mention will be completely loss in the translation by most. You should know that by now. Please. THINK!

4. Do realize that not every church hurt you and people are not “all the same.” Find a local church you can join. Start slow if you need to. But let the Lord’s manifold grace come to you in the fellowship of His people. That’s normally how He comforts us in our trouble and pain (2 cor. 1).

Do you realize when people say this term that their definition does not always align your all compassing one. You see most adults realize that people are not ‘all the same’, and if I were guessing figured that out in childhood. Please tell us that wasn’t lost on you!

OH! Can you clue the preacher boys in that people that don’t agree with their interruptions of scripture aren’t all evil feminists, or emasculated males? You see they do give the strong impression that those that don’t agree are ‘all the same’ in that manner. Matter of fact they make some very strong statements to that effect.

5. Live in hope. Your Lord is also Lord of the Church. He cares for your brokenness but also the brokenness of the Church. And guess what? Your pain is the means He will use to teach the church to grow in love and their love will be the means of your healing. The church needs your hurt and you need the church’s love.

That would start if people would speak out against the authoritarian nature of some churches or Christian Organizations, and acknowledge humans tend to use their positions within the hierarchy to ignore the hurt. Yes, its just that important!

The ‘church’ is good at giving you examples all the time on ways to show your love for them, but sadly are NOT very receptive to rebuke when their own ‘authority’ it gets out of hand. Sadly, it’s a part of human nature that makes them extremely uncomfortable to admit. Placing the words like: Biblical or Godly in front of their statements, names, etc. doesn’t always make it so. People are noticing!

Just so I’m clear – most realize that churches aren’t ‘all the same’ in that realm. Too many are, and it would help if people like yourself dropped the spiritual spin on things and spoke out against them. Just think of the healing that could take place, and the reconciliation that could start upon that acknowledgement!

Lead by Example!

Tell the preacher boys that claim the lawsuit, and charges against CJ Mahaney were NOT about ‘founding a ministry’. How they are intelligent enough to know that, and instead of just deleting that sentence in their statement? It would look a bit more transparent if they acknowledged the statement was foolish, defensive, and an outright untruth!

Remind them that YES friendship can be strong at times, and they can still be friends in private. BUT when it comes to professionalism within a ministry under such terrible circumstances? Its not a ‘biblical’ basis of innocence, and their opinions of his character don’t change that.

As hard as it is for them they MUST acknowledge that a statue of limitations doesn’t mean there is no grounds for suspicion or lack of guilt. They wrote this statement from their own emotional state at this time, and their attempt at diversion out of loyalty was sin.

Your article asked: ‘Should we be saying, The Church Hurt ME?’ Yes, unless you have an audience that tends to take things too literally.

There are times to take the literal approach, but sadly in this circumstance? No. HECK even if your audience DID say it under the circumstances that you listed? You tend to look as silly as they do.