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	<title>Comments for The Emerging Scholars Blog</title>
	
	<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org</link>
	<description>From InterVarsity's Emerging Scholars Network</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:54:01 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Emerging Adults’ View of Education by W. Brian Lane</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/11/emerging-adults-view-of-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2070</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Brian Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1604#comment-2070</guid>
		<description>I think Amy makes a very good point. The irony of approaching education with a mercenary "skill-seeking" attitude is that such a student also neglects personal development and introspection. I'm reminded of Percy's student who "made straight A's in school but flunked life."

I think that's an avenue in which Christian college ministries and professors can serve: helping students develop holistically and not just making the grade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Amy makes a very good point. The irony of approaching education with a mercenary &#8220;skill-seeking&#8221; attitude is that such a student also neglects personal development and introspection. I&#8217;m reminded of Percy&#8217;s student who &#8220;made straight A&#8217;s in school but flunked life.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s an avenue in which Christian college ministries and professors can serve: helping students develop holistically and not just making the grade.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Dr. Collins as mildly demented? by Amy</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/10/dr-collins-as-mildly-demented/comment-page-1/#comment-2068</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1528#comment-2068</guid>
		<description>This doesn't add to the discussion much, but reading the comments reminded me of a Venn diagram I recently saw illustrating just how ridiculous the dry telling of Jesus' resurrection sounds to a face-value rationalist.

http://thedw.us/post/229962890/venn-diagram-of-the-day-a-few-weak-points</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This doesn&#8217;t add to the discussion much, but reading the comments reminded me of a Venn diagram I recently saw illustrating just how ridiculous the dry telling of Jesus&#8217; resurrection sounds to a face-value rationalist.</p>
<p><a href="http://thedw.us/post/229962890/venn-diagram-of-the-day-a-few-weak-points" rel="nofollow">http://thedw.us/post/229962890/venn-diagram-of-the-day-a-few-weak-points</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Week in Review: Halloween Edition by Amy</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/10/week-in-review-hallowee-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-2067</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1584#comment-2067</guid>
		<description>4. - I got this exact same advice when I was a brand spanking new graduate student, meeting with professors before choosing a research advisor. One of my potential advisors (who I incidentally did not choose) told me that to some extent, any research project I chose would eventually become my baby, simply because of the time and effort put in.  What would really drive my motivation and happiness would be my relationship with my advisor.  

Too bad that at that time, I was straight out of undergrad and entirely too green and un-self-aware to know just what kind of relationship with my advisor I wanted, or needed.  It's one of the main reasons I wish I'd gone to work in industry for a couple of years before graduate school.  Woulda coulda shoulda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4. &#8211; I got this exact same advice when I was a brand spanking new graduate student, meeting with professors before choosing a research advisor. One of my potential advisors (who I incidentally did not choose) told me that to some extent, any research project I chose would eventually become my baby, simply because of the time and effort put in.  What would really drive my motivation and happiness would be my relationship with my advisor.  </p>
<p>Too bad that at that time, I was straight out of undergrad and entirely too green and un-self-aware to know just what kind of relationship with my advisor I wanted, or needed.  It&#8217;s one of the main reasons I wish I&#8217;d gone to work in industry for a couple of years before graduate school.  Woulda coulda shoulda.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emerging Adults’ View of Education by Amy</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/11/emerging-adults-view-of-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2066</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1604#comment-2066</guid>
		<description>Oh absolutely.  College is a means to an end, and that end is the opportunity to build careers that are emotionally and/or materially rewarding.  It's not about a quest for knowledge - but then again, most of the people I know were in the physical or social sciences, and we don't think about our education in terms of "knowledge" so much as "skills."  The difference being that skills are obtained for the sake of how they'll be applied, while knowledge is obtained for its own sake.

Compound on that the quarter life crisis that everyone my age (late 20's) is having right now, when we realize we aren't as happy as we thought we would be by now, and we can't figure out why.  Perhaps it's because we didn't know what we wanted out of life when we were in college anyway, or thought it would all work out as planned, and so never knew to ask ourselves the right questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh absolutely.  College is a means to an end, and that end is the opportunity to build careers that are emotionally and/or materially rewarding.  It&#8217;s not about a quest for knowledge &#8211; but then again, most of the people I know were in the physical or social sciences, and we don&#8217;t think about our education in terms of &#8220;knowledge&#8221; so much as &#8220;skills.&#8221;  The difference being that skills are obtained for the sake of how they&#8217;ll be applied, while knowledge is obtained for its own sake.</p>
<p>Compound on that the quarter life crisis that everyone my age (late 20&#8217;s) is having right now, when we realize we aren&#8217;t as happy as we thought we would be by now, and we can&#8217;t figure out why.  Perhaps it&#8217;s because we didn&#8217;t know what we wanted out of life when we were in college anyway, or thought it would all work out as planned, and so never knew to ask ourselves the right questions.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Called Out of Darkness by W. Brian Lane</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/10/called-out-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2039</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Brian Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1589#comment-2039</guid>
		<description>"For those who are currently in the role of educators, what recommendations do you have regarding how to encourage creative students?"

I was challenged recently at a seminar at our university's Center for Teaching &amp; Learning about writing objectives for our courses that describe what we want our students to understand and be able to do at the end of a course. Teaching physics, this can be a difficult process, since our knee-jerk reaction is just to say, "They should be able to solve the problems."

But really thinking through the learning objective process led me to further develop my conception of what I want the students to understand--regardless of how that understanding is manifested--and I find now that I have a lot more room for student creativity on term papers and lab exercises. And amazingly enough, they perform better on the more traditional problem-solving questions in such an environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For those who are currently in the role of educators, what recommendations do you have regarding how to encourage creative students?&#8221;</p>
<p>I was challenged recently at a seminar at our university&#8217;s Center for Teaching &amp; Learning about writing objectives for our courses that describe what we want our students to understand and be able to do at the end of a course. Teaching physics, this can be a difficult process, since our knee-jerk reaction is just to say, &#8220;They should be able to solve the problems.&#8221;</p>
<p>But really thinking through the learning objective process led me to further develop my conception of what I want the students to understand&#8211;regardless of how that understanding is manifested&#8211;and I find now that I have a lot more room for student creativity on term papers and lab exercises. And amazingly enough, they perform better on the more traditional problem-solving questions in such an environment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Outrageous Idea 3: Rules of the Game by Tom Grosh</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/10/outrageous-idea-3-rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-1933</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Grosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1550#comment-1933</guid>
		<description>Dave, Thank-you for the note.  I apologize for the lack of clarity in the attribution of the quote.  I've added an update to address this concern.  In Christ, Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, Thank-you for the note.  I apologize for the lack of clarity in the attribution of the quote.  I&#8217;ve added an update to address this concern.  In Christ, Tom</p>
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		<title>Comment on Outrageous Idea 3: Rules of the Game by Dave Snoke</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/10/outrageous-idea-3-rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-1930</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Snoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1550#comment-1930</guid>
		<description>The second quote is not from Marsden, but from Fish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The second quote is not from Marsden, but from Fish.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Outrageous Idea 2: Arguments for Silence by Thomas B. Grosh IV</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/10/outrageous-idea-2-arguments-for-silence/comment-page-1/#comment-1916</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas B. Grosh IV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1524#comment-1916</guid>
		<description>JTG, I think that you would have interest in my post regarding the Fall 2007 interdisciplinary panel discussion of "God, Evolution, and Racism: A Perfect Storm" at Franklin &amp; Marshall College (F&amp;M), http://groshlink.net/archives/2007/11/07/god-evolution-and-racism-a-perfect-storm, which discussed the removal of a recently recovered and re-hung dedication plaque for the first science building.  The plaque features a quote attributed to Louis Agassiz, "A laboratory is to me a sanctuary; I would have nothing done in it unworthy its great author." 

This conversation is a sample of what can 'come to the table,' particularly at college desire to clarify how it has moved on from it's religious heritage, such as what George Marsden researches/writes about in "The Soul of the American University" (Oxford University Press, 1994).  BTW, who would have remembered F&amp;M's connection to the Reformed Church, later part of the United Church of Christ, which was "severed" when "the College became a secular institution" but "remained committed to 'liberal learning'" in 1969 (see http://www.fandm.edu/x20902, accessed 10/21/2009, 1:30 pm)?  Note the Provost's emphasis on putting the religious heritage behind in order to be secular and her concern regarding Agassiz’s rejection of evolution.

Too much in the post to copy here, but here's a pertinent section regarding how followers of Christ perceive/experience the environment of a liberal arts college such as F&amp;M.  Note:  At the time, Michael Murray was a Philosophy Professor at F&amp;M (http://www.fandm.edu/x11310?id=204, accessed 10/21/2009, 1:36 pm) now he is the John Templeton Foundation's Vice President for Philosophy and Theology (http://www.templeton.org/about_us/who_we_are/leadership_team/michael_murray/, accessed 10/21/2009, 1:36 pm).

"In the conversation afterward several Christian students shared their feelings of being marginalized on campus because of their faith.  Michael [Murray] affirmed that he has seen this in the lives of a number of students and in his own as a follower of Christ during his 18 years at F&amp;M. A number of students present emphasized their desire for more science-religion conversation.  One student expressed concern regarding the erasure of [campus] memory -- although a classmate disagreed.  And one student even challenged the Provost as to whether concerns as to the allusion to faith and not Agassiz's racism was at the core of the removal.

As to concerns which those in the future might bring to our current scientific work, the following were suggested: scientism’s rejection of broader conversation regarding the origin of life, money directing scientific research, arrogance of science/technology (we need a dose of humility), atheism’s role in guiding science (it was confessed that we all bring a bias, but scientists propose a hypothesis with the ability to falsify as one follows the evidence where it leads . . . unlike religion)."

Note:  More response coming in the post on Chapter 3.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JTG, I think that you would have interest in my post regarding the Fall 2007 interdisciplinary panel discussion of &#8220;God, Evolution, and Racism: A Perfect Storm&#8221; at Franklin &amp; Marshall College (F&amp;M), <a href="http://groshlink.net/archives/2007/11/07/god-evolution-and-racism-a-perfect-storm" rel="nofollow">http://groshlink.net/archives/2007/11/07/god-evolution-and-racism-a-perfect-storm</a>, which discussed the removal of a recently recovered and re-hung dedication plaque for the first science building.  The plaque features a quote attributed to Louis Agassiz, &#8220;A laboratory is to me a sanctuary; I would have nothing done in it unworthy its great author.&#8221; </p>
<p>This conversation is a sample of what can &#8216;come to the table,&#8217; particularly at college desire to clarify how it has moved on from it&#8217;s religious heritage, such as what George Marsden researches/writes about in &#8220;The Soul of the American University&#8221; (Oxford University Press, 1994).  BTW, who would have remembered F&amp;M&#8217;s connection to the Reformed Church, later part of the United Church of Christ, which was &#8220;severed&#8221; when &#8220;the College became a secular institution&#8221; but &#8220;remained committed to &#8216;liberal learning&#8217;&#8221; in 1969 (see <a href="http://www.fandm.edu/x20902" rel="nofollow">http://www.fandm.edu/x20902</a>, accessed 10/21/2009, 1:30 pm)?  Note the Provost&#8217;s emphasis on putting the religious heritage behind in order to be secular and her concern regarding Agassiz’s rejection of evolution.</p>
<p>Too much in the post to copy here, but here&#8217;s a pertinent section regarding how followers of Christ perceive/experience the environment of a liberal arts college such as F&amp;M.  Note:  At the time, Michael Murray was a Philosophy Professor at F&amp;M (<a href="http://www.fandm.edu/x11310?id=204" rel="nofollow">http://www.fandm.edu/x11310?id=204</a>, accessed 10/21/2009, 1:36 pm) now he is the John Templeton Foundation&#8217;s Vice President for Philosophy and Theology (<a href="http://www.templeton.org/about_us/who_we_are/leadership_team/michael_murray/" rel="nofollow">http://www.templeton.org/about_us/who_we_are/leadership_team/michael_murray/</a>, accessed 10/21/2009, 1:36 pm).</p>
<p>&#8220;In the conversation afterward several Christian students shared their feelings of being marginalized on campus because of their faith.  Michael [Murray] affirmed that he has seen this in the lives of a number of students and in his own as a follower of Christ during his 18 years at F&amp;M. A number of students present emphasized their desire for more science-religion conversation.  One student expressed concern regarding the erasure of [campus] memory &#8212; although a classmate disagreed.  And one student even challenged the Provost as to whether concerns as to the allusion to faith and not Agassiz&#8217;s racism was at the core of the removal.</p>
<p>As to concerns which those in the future might bring to our current scientific work, the following were suggested: scientism’s rejection of broader conversation regarding the origin of life, money directing scientific research, arrogance of science/technology (we need a dose of humility), atheism’s role in guiding science (it was confessed that we all bring a bias, but scientists propose a hypothesis with the ability to falsify as one follows the evidence where it leads . . . unlike religion).&#8221;</p>
<p>Note:  More response coming in the post on Chapter 3.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Dr. Collins as mildly demented? by Dave Snoke</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/10/dr-collins-as-mildly-demented/comment-page-1/#comment-1871</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Snoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1528#comment-1871</guid>
		<description>A similar argument was made by R.C. Sproul in an old book, "The Psychology of Atheism" (now out of print).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A similar argument was made by R.C. Sproul in an old book, &#8220;The Psychology of Atheism&#8221; (now out of print).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Teaching in the Church by Dave Snoke</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2009/10/teaching-in-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1870</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Snoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=1547#comment-1870</guid>
		<description>I teach at my church, and a few years back also got licensed to preach regularly. For me, it is an avocation. Some people collect stamps or do sports; I study and teach theology and Bible. I do think that spending my life in academic making outlines and lecture notes helps. 

I sometimes use physics and math analogies in theology. E.g., regarding the issue of "soul sleep" (are we consciously with God during the time between our death and the final resurrection) can we even talk about an absolute time? What if the person just before they died was put on a rocket ship that went near the speed of light and experienced almost no time passing before Christ returned? Some people roll their eyes but generally, in any group there are people who like to think about puzzles and tricky questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I teach at my church, and a few years back also got licensed to preach regularly. For me, it is an avocation. Some people collect stamps or do sports; I study and teach theology and Bible. I do think that spending my life in academic making outlines and lecture notes helps. </p>
<p>I sometimes use physics and math analogies in theology. E.g., regarding the issue of &#8220;soul sleep&#8221; (are we consciously with God during the time between our death and the final resurrection) can we even talk about an absolute time? What if the person just before they died was put on a rocket ship that went near the speed of light and experienced almost no time passing before Christ returned? Some people roll their eyes but generally, in any group there are people who like to think about puzzles and tricky questions.</p>
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